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Emily Spankratchet Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.31 13:47:00 - [31] I agree that the 0.0 complexes add value to territory and give the Alliances a reason to want to claim chunks of space. IMO, this is a good thing. However, I'd be quite happy with the complexes moving around. Not every downtime, but maybe every few weeks. If nothing else, this adds a little more flavour to things. With the situation as it is, I wonder why the rats keep their bases in the same place. Domination Admiral: Status report? Domination Underling: At 1300 hours, the same fleet of battleships warped in and proceeded to take apart our shipyard. They finished around 1420, just like they always do. DomAd: Dammit, man, didn't you try to defend the place? DomUnd: We tried, Admiral. We kept shooting the guy at the front but he had an uber tank and we just couldn't break it. DomAd: This is getting serious. That's the ninety third time that group of pod pilots has razed our facility. DomUnd: If only there was a way to stop them. DomAd: If only, trooper. Sadly, our top tacticians have yet to come up with a solution. Better go prepare your ships for the next wave at 1100 hours.
Fookin Rats	Posted - 2006.07.31 18:29:00 - [32] Edited by: **in Rats on 31/07/2006 18:29:41 A fairly simple solution would be to half the drop rate of the items themselves and fill in the gap with original blueprints. The blueprints could then take thousands or perhaps tens and hundreds of thousands of the standard unit to create, depending on the module's complexity. Much like overclocking a computer processor, some units are capable of obscene clock rates and some are not. Make them take a decent chunk of time to manufacture and you've got more units available without reducing the prices much, due to the base requirements of the blueprints. The alliance still gets to control their complex while making the items somewhat more available to those willing to collect the materials. Everyone wins.
Caletha	Posted - 2006.07.31 19:45:00 - [33] How does that stop farming again? It'll just make items way more expensive.
10bears	Posted - 2006.08.01 02:45:00 - [34] Edited by: 10bears on 01/08/2006 02:45:44 Originally by: Cpt Abestos [/quote So bascily you want the reward but without putting the time an effort into securing access to high end complexes. Should the alliance/corp that worked long and hard to have close to uncontesed access to this complex including in many cases setting up multi billion isk outposts now get less due to the massive drop in value of the items dropped from these plexes if they were made easier to access. Ab Initio had it right. I spent a billion on 3 modules in the escrow, so your whines about POSs fall on deaf ears.
Treylis Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.01 07:13:00 - [35] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Even if they are and you get in, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that they'll let you run those complexes. They're reserved for the elite. Unless you're in Goonfleet. As far as I know we're the only corporation that allows newbies to share in 10/10 loot along with the veterans and directorate.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.01 19:15:00 - [36] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Pwyle Kenobi Originally by: Spy4Hire If CCP would get a clue and make complexes move then maybe more people could actually access them, not the same 5% day after day. I like this idea of complexes moving about the map from time to time. This would have a negative, not positive affect on EVE. 'Wealth' of regions is judged by a number of points, including available ore, sec levels, complexes and geography. By making complexes move around, you take away yet another reason for entities to fight over 0.0 real estate. Then keep them in the same region, but move throughout that region. Rats should move around and not be so predictable. Eve should be a dynamic environment for such a dynamic storyline created by the players. It would have an interesting effect on the economy of faction loot. Perhaps items would even get more expensive as they had to be fought over on a regular basis. Let the race to the complexes begin.
Horatio Nately Caldari Battlefodder Inc The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.08.02 09:03:00 - [37] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Rats should move around and not be so predictable. Cruiser spawns in kisogo would be hilarious
mishkof Caldari Emerald Empire Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.08.02 14:02:00 - [38] Edited by: mishkof on 02/08/2006 14:02:58 In my experience it isnt even about "controlling the area". In many cases people just have an alt logged outside the complex and have an alarm clock set for the respawn time. They make it to the second or third level with their army of alts and as soon as they get passed teh gate with the key they are home free. Then they warp out log out and reset the alram clock. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Controlling territory a lot of times has nothing to do with it. Edit: having to much time on your hands doas.
Ithakus	Posted - 2006.08.04 00:50:00 - [39] Why not make the faction shiplogs useful? Say you're doing a mission, or ratting and you kill a rat that drops the shiplog. The shiplog could act as an instant complex at whatever system it dictates, whether it be low sec or empire. The system security would dictate the lvl of the complex. CCP could put a cap on the complex lvl (say 5/10 in empire and 8/10 in 0.0). You could keep the current complexes as they are and add these "instant plexes" to the game. CCP could make faction loot a rare drop in these plexes but still make them challenging enough to encourage team play. Just a thought.
arkarsk Provenance.	Posted - 2006.08.04 07:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Cpt Abestos [ Corp = Blood Raiders Complex Loot Corpus = Blood Raider BS Sized Complex Loot Corpus loot doesnt exist due to lack of 7/10-10/10 Blood complexes. Corpum = Blood Raider Cruiser Sized Loot Coupum-c Doesnt exist no 4/10 Corpum-b Doesnt exist no 5/10 Corpum-a Drops from 6/10 Blood Complex Corpii = Blood Raider Cruiser Sized Loot Corpii loot doesnt exist due to lack of 1/10-3/10 Blood complexes. So, if i were to run some 4/10 blood raider complexes (Mul Zatah), what loot could i expect? Just the overseers effects?
Cpt Abestos	Posted - 2006.08.04 07:14:00 - [41] Originally by: arkarsk Originally by: Cpt Abestos [ Corp = Blood Raiders Complex Loot Corpus = Blood Raider BS Sized Complex Loot Corpus loot doesnt exist due to lack of 7/10-10/10 Blood complexes. Corpum = Blood Raider Cruiser Sized Loot Coupum-c Doesnt exist no 4/10 Corpum-b Doesnt exist no 5/10 Corpum-a Drops from 6/10 Blood Complex Corpii = Blood Raider Cruiser Sized Loot Corpii loot doesnt exist due to lack of 1/10-3/10 Blood complexes. So, if i were to run some 4/10 blood raider complexes (Mul Zatah), what loot could i expect? Just the overseers effects? I assume you mean the sanshas 4/10 as there is no blood 4/10, you would get overseers and possibly some true sansha items maybe a succubus or phantasm bpc but I am not sure about the bpcs.
arkarsk Provenance.	Posted - 2006.08.04 07:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Cpt Abestos So, if i were to run some 4/10 blood raider complexes (Mul Zatah), what loot could i expect? Just the overseers effects? I assume you mean the sanshas 4/10 as there is no blood 4/10, you would get overseers and possibly some true sansha items maybe a succubus or phantasm bpc but I am not sure about the bpcs. There are 4/10's called 'Mul-Zatah Monastery', the little info screen that pops up when you warp to it explains the mulzatah ties to the bloodraiders. Inside the complex, all of them fly blood raider cruisers.
Lord WarATron Amarr Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.04 08:06:00 - [43] To answer the original poster, unless you are part of an alliance, you are not going to be able to run the complex's to get these items. You could, if you have the numbers, head into a NPC station area (such as Stain) and raid the complexes if you can beat the farmers, but quite often you will find PvPing straight after DT before the gate traffic control is loaded! A 10/10 is a bil per run, and all 10/10's in eve are being run twice daily as far as I am aware. But then again, 99% of lvl4 solo missions runners would get instapoped by a single torpedo from a Station Ultima unless they either know how to beat it or have 98% resists. The only real solution is this - Un-Nerf Lvl4 0.0 Agents and add agents to 0.0 Outposts. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
White Ronin	Posted - 2006.08.04 11:15:00 - [44] Stupid Idea so dont read but I must follow the compulsion to post it. Sorry. Every respwn there is a small chance that the area actually spwns a vicious npc fleet that actually fights back. Webbers, warp disrupters, ecm wielding drones fortold in the end-of-days. BS sqauds with cruiser support and frig tacklers. Their damage type is random and their resists are also. They remain till destroyed or reset. At which point the complex resets and the dice are again rolled. That way camping a spwn too long might just get your ass handed to you.
Dragon Lord	Posted - 2006.09.01 11:25:00 - [45] I think complexes should be hidden from every player and the only way to find them is through an agent and u must have insainly high standing with that agents faction to access the agent, the agent then tells u the location of the plex and u can go find it u can take friends but only if they have insainly high faction standing to, the location of the plexes are random and u can only get a plex mission every few weeks thus keeping faction loot rare but giving the ordinary player a chance to find uber loot if they have put enough effort in. This would make farming difficult and allow more players the chance of running a high lvl plex.
Annatar The Galactic Empire Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.13 19:14:00 - [46] Originally by: Caletha There should also be a way to kill the people inside the complex. Make it more dangerous to run them. And gives you the ability to kick out people. For this I suggest that once you open a gate with a key, it'll stay open until the final boss has been killed. No overseer's should respawn until then (normal BS / cruisers / frigs / etc should respawn). And, as long as someone is in the complex no overseer should spawn either. That will stop people from just farming the end-boss. This will make it easier in some ways (you can warp out and get back in without running into a closed gate), but in so many ways its that much more dangerous, definitly in 0.0. No more 'I am in the second stage of this complex, I am safe from those PvPers'. hmm i really like the Idea. The gate/locks are Broke until the end boss gets finished. After that they lock up until respawned / Opened up again. Aditionally it COULD be nice if you can use Hacking and New hacking skills to break thouse locks. (but should take like 5-10 min per Gate) -------------------------------------------- Never argue with an Idoit, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience.
Krav Egad Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.13 21:14:00 - [47] Originally by: Cpt Abestos Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 23/06/2006 20:50:21 Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 23/06/2006 20:47:30 Gist = Bs Sized Angel Complex Loot Gist-c Drops from the 7/10 Angels Plex Gist-b Drops from the 8/10 Angels Plex Gist-a Doesnt exist no 9/10 Gist-x Drops From the Angel 10/10 Gistum = Cruiser Sized Angel Complex Loot Gistum-c Doesn't Exist no Angel 4/10 Gistum-b should drop from the Angel 5/10 but the loot tables are broken Gistum-a Doesn't Exist no Angel 6/10 Gistii = Frig Sized Angel Complex Loot Gistii-c Doesn't Exist no Angel 1/10 Gistii-b Should drop from the 2/10 but the loot tables are broken Gistii-a Drops from the serpentis 3/10(go figure) Cent = Sanshas Complex Loot Centus = Sanshas BS Sized Complex Loot Centus-c Doesnt exist no 7/10 Centus-b Doesnt exist no 8/10 Centus-a Doesnt exist no 9/10 Centus-x Drops from Sanshas 10/10 Centum = Sanshas Cruiser Sized Complex Loot Centum-c Should drop from 4/10 but doesnt due to broken loot tables Centum-b Doesnt exist no 5/10 Centum-a Drops from Sanshas 6/10 Centii = Sanshas Frig Sized Complex Loot Centii-c Should drop from 1/10 but dosent due to broken loot table Centii-b Doesnt exist no 2/10 Centii-a Should drop from 3/10 but doesnt due to broken loot table Corp = Blood Raiders Complex Loot Corpus = Blood Raider BS Sized Complex Loot Corpus loot doesnt exist due to lack of 7/10-10/10 Blood complexes. Corpum = Blood Raider Cruiser Sized Loot Coupum-c Doesnt exist no 4/10 Corpum-b Doesnt exist no 5/10 Corpum-a Drops from 6/10 Blood Complex Corpii = Blood Raider Cruiser Sized Loot Corpii loot doesnt exist due to lack of 1/10-3/10 Blood complexes. Core = Serpentis Complex Loot Core = Serpentis BS Sized Complex Loot Core-c Doesnt exist no 7/10 Core-b Doesnt exist no 8/10 Core-a Doesnt exist no 9/10 Core-x Drops from Serpentis 10/10 Corelum = Serpentis Cruiser Sized Complex Loot Corelum-c Should drop from Serpentis 4/10 but doesnt due to broken loot table. Corelum-b Doesnt exist no 5/10 Corelum-a Doesnt exist no 6/10 Corelli = Serpentis Frig Sized Complex Loot Corelli-c Should drop from Serpentis 1/10 but doesnt due to broken loot table. Corelli-b Doesnt exist no 2/10 Corelli-a Should drop from Serpentis 3/10 but that plex drops gistii-a instead. Pith = Guristas Complex Loot Pith = Guristas BS Sized Complex Loot Pith-c Doesn exist no 7/10 Pith-b Drops from Guristas 8/10 Pith-a Doesnt Exist no 9/10 Pith-x Doesnt Exist no 10/10 Pithum = Guristas Cruiser Sized Complex Loot Pithum-c Should drop from 4/10 but doesnt due to broken loot tables. Pithum-b Doesnt exist no 5/10 Pithum-a Should drop from 6/10 but doesnt due to broken loot tables. Pithii = Guristas Frig Sized Loot Pithii-c Should drop from 1/10 but doesnt due to broken loot tables. Pithii-b Should drop from 2/10 but doesnt due to broken loot tables. Pithii-a Doesnt exist no 3/10 You Sir, win the research reward for this thread printing Krav =====
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Nova Republic	Posted - 2006.09.13 23:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Satomila Kunis Wow... that's a lot of broken loot tables. In fact, there are about twice as many "don't exist no such complex" and "broken loot table" as there are loot drops. One wonders if the mythical loot table really exists. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Nebuchadnezzar I	Posted - 2006.09.14 03:18:00 - [49] Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 14/09/2006 03:21:12 Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 14/09/2006 03:19:39 Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Domination Admiral: Status report? Domination Underling: At 1300 hours, the same fleet of battleships warped in and proceeded to take apart our shipyard. They finished around 1420, just like they always do. DomAd: Dammit, man, didn't you try to defend the place? DomUnd: We tried, Admiral. We kept shooting the guy at the front but he had an uber tank and we just couldn't break it. DomAd: This is getting serious. That's the ninety third time that group of pod pilots has razed our facility. DomUnd: If only there was a way to stop them. DomAd: If only, trooper. Sadly, our top tacticians have yet to come up with a solution. Better go prepare your ships for the next wave at 1100 hours. Hahaha, right on lol :) --------------------- Anyways, as already has been said, the best complexes are in 0.0, just as the best rats and minerals - come try get it and stop whining.
Xeoz Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.14 05:34:00 - [50] This thread is an excellent resource. Special thanks to Cpt Abestos for that list!
Celeste Storm Gallente Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.09.14 06:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Dragon Lord I think complexes should be hidden from every player and the only way to find them is through an agent and u must have insainly high standing with that agents faction to access the agent, the agent then tells u the location of the plex and u can go find it u can take friends but only if they have insainly high faction standing to, the location of the plexes are random and u can only get a plex mission every few weeks thus keeping faction loot rare but giving the ordinary player a chance to find uber loot if they have put enough effort in. This would make farming difficult and allow more players the chance of running a high lvl plex. From all ideas i've read so far, I like this one most. I simple want more people be able to to high level plexes. As it is by now, only those with a huge alliance and no real life obligations benefit from plexes in 0.0. Cel. whiners make m3 s!ck \| Do you like farmers?
Navapia Wingblade Minmatar Doomcraft R i s e	Posted - 2006.09.14 08:58:00 - [52] That long list, while largely correct, is also slightly incorrect. 1/10 Blood Raider Complexes are the Old Meanie complexes. 4/10 Blood Raider Complexes are the Mul-Zutah monastery places. ---------- I think I just had an evilgasm.... Are you a bufty or a beauty? Visit http://www.matryx.org.uk/eve/ using the in-game-browser to find out!
Prellius	Posted - 2006.09.14 10:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Ithakus Why not make the faction shiplogs useful? Say you're doing a mission, or ratting and you kill a rat that drops the shiplog. The shiplog could act as an instant complex at whatever system it dictates, whether it be low sec or empire. The system security would dictate the lvl of the complex. CCP could put a cap on the complex lvl (say 5/10 in empire and 8/10 in 0.0). You could keep the current complexes as they are and add these "instant plexes" to the game. CCP could make faction loot a rare drop in these plexes but still make them challenging enough to encourage team play. Just a thought. Damn good idea. Maybe a "KEY TO x/10 (insert faction / npc) COMPLEX" drops while doing normal missions or ratting and this key contains special zone/location info which is invisible to others so, only keyholder or his gang can warp in ? Is it a dream ? :)
Joran Ven	Posted - 2006.09.14 12:25:00 - [54] hmm.... treasure maps more things for people to go yarrr at.
Jaseon	Posted - 2006.10.04 19:15:00 - [55] so what does the 6/10 guritas plexes drop? only tiers?
DoctorGonzo Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.04 20:02:00 - [56] Originally by: Uggster Your both wrong. They are fought over, and POS's are put up in their systems and then destroyed and replaced and fought over again and then, and only then, are they farmed. Considering I have lost exactly zero ships to the 8/10 complex in the area I am near in 0.0 and several ship to PvP trying to get in that complex then it's hardly suprising that when you get the chance you will "farm" it. The fault, if there is one, is the respawns of the keyholders at predictable times so you get a single group that can log on at the exact moment (due to timezone advantage or lack of RL commitments at that moment) and so you end up with 1 group being there 90% of the time and everyone else fighting over the remaining 10%. Word! The complexes, high grade 0.0 systems (for those of you that don't know all 0.0 systems have a grading ranging from 0.0 to -1.0. The higher the negative status the better the spawns, ores and moons) and rare moon systems are what the main alliances fight over. It's why they claim space, why they put POS's up, why they build outposts. They are the source of the high-end player driven content and an essential part of the game. 0.0 space should have the biggest rewards and people dedicated enough to capture a region, or parts of a region, with these resources deserve the right to 'farm' them. Hours of game play and billions of isk are spent trying to secure these resources, which is why I hate it when people say 'it's unfair'. It is fair, people have fought tooth and nail to get the resources - they're not given free or by a lottery. Okay, rant over! Get Your BoB Protection Kit Here
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.04 21:13:00 - [57] The complex "ENTRY GATEWAYS" themselves don't have to change location. Having people battling over these complexes as "resources" is a rather good thing, IMHO. But the complex itself should NOT be closed off to anybody else except the initial "keyholders". On second thought, why the heck have any keys at all ? Just make it so that you can use each acceleration gate or gateway as soon as you clear out the level. In other words, if somebody arrives BEFORE the stage respawn, they can enter too. Heck, make it so that the stage respawns soon after you left through the next accel gate... say, 5 minutes ? So those that complete the complex must do so WITHOUT warpouts, or any warpout would mean "restart from the first gate". Separate groups could then enter these complexes, and either go through the enemies at great speed, or risk encountering members of the other group... and also, if the "lead" takes too long, the "followers" could profit from the 5-minute respawn time and close on the lead group earlier as the lead might expect. Or heck, use a covops to SPY on the lead team, and ambush them just as they enter the final stage. Disable the use of any cloaking devices in the Overseer stage. ONLY EXCEPTION ON PERMA-RESPAWNS: OVERSEER STAGE CAN ONLY RESPAWN IF THERE ARE NO "VISIBLE" SHIPS INSIDE THE COMPLEX Make the Overseer stage respawn AT RANDOM intervals (equally spaced, not bell curve) between a minimum of a few minutes and almost double the "current average" (if you can run complexes 3 times a day now, have respawn times of absolutely random values up to 16 hours then). __ Always question everything. Including yourself.
Prokonsul Piotrus	Posted - 2006.10.05 05:34:00 - [58] Originally by: Treylis Unless you're in Goonfleet. As far as I know we're the only corporation that allows newbies to share in 10/10 loot along with the veterans and directorate. Old Black Reign Syndicate used to do the same (more or less), unti some players got too greedy and decided that some corps should have more access than others. Guess what followed :/
Prokonsul Piotrus	Posted - 2006.10.05 05:36:00 - [59] Edited by: Prokonsul Piotrus on 05/10/2006 05:45:20 Edited by: Prokonsul Piotrus on 05/10/2006 05:44:46 Edited by: Prokonsul Piotrus on 05/10/2006 05:43:37 Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Domination Admiral: Status report? Domination Underling: At 1300 hours, the same fleet of battleships warped in and proceeded to take apart our shipyard. They finished around 1420, just like they always do. DomAd: Dammit, man, didn't you try to defend the place? DomUnd: We tried, Admiral. We kept shooting the guy at the front but he had an uber tank and we just couldn't break it. DomAd: This is getting serious. That's the ninety third time that group of pod pilots has razed our facility. DomUnd: If only there was a way to stop them. DomAd: If only, trooper. Sadly, our top tacticians have yet to come up with a solution. Better go prepare your ships for the next wave at 1100 hours. LOL :) Nice :) Have you seen this ? :) Seriously I wait for the days CCP makes rats smarter and more realistic, and they start running away, targeting many ships, warp to help others and do other stuff that would make this entire game more fun. I don't expect this soon, but it will have to happen eventually. PS. Love the idea of making logs useful again. Those insta-plexes would make excellent team 'lv5' missions.
Greenbolt	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:16:00 - [60] Even if the complexes stay in the same area...the fact that the respawn rates seem very predictable and such perhaps favor some time zones over others seems to be a major problem also More random ness in spawn times make it so that alarm clock option doesnt work. Would make it slightly more available to all Just an idea.

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