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EVE end game, a Rich Man's Game?

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THCS Kenshin. Northern Coalition. 0	Posted - 2014.07.02 04:17:00 - [1] - Quote Sup all, I want to start a discussion on Eve endgame and the cost of eve in terms of plex, time and RL $... The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget and I feel it kind of alienating the old veterans who are trying to enjoy end-game content and have loads of high-value capitals at risk. As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, its pretty hard to keep up with and enjoy eve content. Playing eve has gotten pretty expensive for a 100+ mil SP /super/ and cap toon and doesn't seem to be slowing down. Lets face it: Owning capitals capitals requires support toons. Players who don't want to shell out $15-20 a month need to buy plexs in game to support their capitals and accounts. With the increased cost of plexs recently, I don't think Capital pilots can sustain their accounts for long without eating into their ISK or RL savings or taking out a loads of time out of RL to put toward grinding for isk. Lets do the math shall we? An average player plays 10-20 hrs a week and owns 2-3 accounts in eve; at current plex sell and buy order bids, that's 2.2 bil isk a month to keep them active. An average pilot makes roughly 60-100 mil/hr from ratting. To earn a plex, it takes 7-12 hrs to plex one account. That's on average 36 hrs of play time to pay off just the plex for subscription and also does not include operating costs and risk of ship loss. My rough estimate is that it takes 40 hrs of grinding to pay off one's sub for 3 accounts. That's 3 weeks of free continuously effort we have to put towards eve!! Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Does any Eve Vets share the same sentiment?
Deebo Singleton Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.07.02 04:21:00 - [2] - Quote In on the ground floor.
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 1070	Posted - 2014.07.02 04:36:00 - [3] - Quote Capitals are intended for large scale pvp and will share cynos. Outside of a wh there is no content for them that is remotely challenging (forget the word endgame) and either using the carrier or a pair of ishtars with the 2 accounts will shoot a plex worth of bounties in 7 hours, ie it's hardly a painful task to sub 1 and plex 1 right now.
Ptraci The Irukandji Ineluctable. 1803	Posted - 2014.07.02 04:38:00 - [4] - Quote THCS wrote: Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? Funny, CCP wants to keep the price high, because the more isk a PLEX is worth the easier it is to sell one for real cash.
KnowUsByTheDead Sunlight...Through The Blight. 1965	Posted - 2014.07.02 04:50:00 - [5] - Quote I was always under the impression that EvE was a sandbox... And as such... The only "endgame" in EvE is the one you make for yourself. So if you are shelling out that much "cost" for what you consider "endgame," then perhaps you should re-evaluate the "endgame" you chose for yourself. Happy to help. Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Cherry Yeyo 1	Posted - 2014.07.02 04:56:00 - [6] - Quote Ask Vince where the trillion isk per month from renters is going? And can yall get a subsidy to help keep your supercaps subbed..
THCS Kenshin. Northern Coalition. 0	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:06:00 - [7] - Quote Cherry Yeyo wrote: Ask Vince where the trillion isk per month from renters is going? And can yall get a subsidy to help keep your supercaps subbed.. Why would I ask Vince for anything? NC are a solid group of corps who bankroll their players. Why would I ask for a subsidy from him? Kenshin is doing a great job; I'm just getting exhausted ratting to keep up with plexing.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6208	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:09:00 - [8] - Quote Caps seem to be used like line ships now, what with carrier blobs sitting on things and repping them. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Saisin State War Academy Caldari State 86	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:13:00 - [9] - Quote Cherry Yeyo wrote: Ask Vince where the trillion isk per month from renters is going? And can yall get a subsidy to help keep your supercaps subbed.. Ain't the money goes the same way that they go in any Ponzi scheme? "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html
THCS Kenshin. Northern Coalition. 0	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:27:00 - [10] - Quote Deebo Singleton wrote: In on the ground floor. Content: THCS wrote: The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget and I feel it kind of alienating the old veterans who are trying to enjoy end-game content and have loads of high-value capitals at risk. As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, its pretty hard to keep up with and enjoy eve content. Playing eve has gotten pretty expensive for a 100+ mil SP /super/ and cap toon and doesn't seem to be slowing down. Lets face it: Owning capitals capitals requires support toons. Players who don't want to shell out $15-20 a month need to buy plexs in game to support their capitals and accounts. With the increased cost of plexs recently, I don't think Capital pilots can sustain their accounts for long without eating into their ISK or RL savings or taking out a loads of time out of RL to put toward grinding for isk. I don't think anyone piloting a ship worth that many billion isk can rightly call himself casual or gripe about lacking income for that matter. What the hell are you doing to make that little isk? If you can't be arsed to pay CCP or pay someone else spacebux so they'll pay CCP for you, then you don't get to have an active account. Sorry Charlie, them the brakes. Someone has to power the servers and keep them running, and your casual cap usership ain't gunna pay the bills. THCS wrote: Lets do the math shall we? An average player plays 10-20 hrs a week and owns 2-3 accounts in eve; at current plex sell and buy order bids, that's 2.2 bil isk a month to keep them active. An average pilot makes roughly 60-100 mil/hr from ratting. To earn a plex, it takes 7-12 hrs to plex one account. That's on average 36 hrs of play time to pay off just the plex for subscription and also does not include operating costs and risk of ship loss. My rough estimate is that it takes 40 hrs of grinding to pay off one's sub for 3 accounts. That's 3 weeks of free continuously effort we have to put towards eve!! Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Does any Eve Vets share the same sentiment? Oh lawd have mercy, someone might have to pay real money for at least one of their accounts if they wanna cut down on their chores! Again, spacebux or realbux, this is a business. You're not here because you're entitled to spaceship comabt. You're here because CCP is being paid for you to enjoy said spaceship combat. The time factor to farm a PLEX is wholly irrelavent to this fact. Even if it costs a trillion isk to buy a PLEX you'd still either have to farm your brains out or shell out a few shekels irl. I can go ahead and let you know ahead of time CCP isn't going to inject tons of free game time into the economy for you. If anyone shares that sentiment with you, they're equally delusional. TL;DR: You are not entitled to free videogames because you feel that you've been around long enough to deserve it. The current price of PLEX is a reflection of the fact that making isk is easier and demand for them is higher than ever. Therefor you're competing with other irl poors for all those "I gotcha bro," tickets in the market. My suggestion for you is this: Either see some of those assets that a "casual," player would never need, close an account or two, OR dig down deep into those empty pockets and find an extra ducket or two. Life ain't fair, nothing is free, you're on your own kid. Get to it. TL;DR. You rambling to much and its sarcastic so I'm just gonna ignore as its 2 am in the morning.

Rhivre TarNec Invisible Exchequer 764	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:32:00 - [11] - Quote THCS wrote: My rough estimate is that it takes 40 hrs of grinding to pay off one's sub for 3 accounts. That's 3 weeks of free continuously effort we have to put towards eve!! Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? 40 hours of grinding / 3 accounts = 13hrs/account (or 13h of them all being logged in at the same time) Not quite 3 weeks is it? Unless you only play each account on its own. or, @800m/PLEX, 26m/day, or 10m/h of your 80 hour game month. Fluffy Bunny Pic!
Paranoid Loyd 774	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:52:00 - [12] - Quote $540/365days=$1.48/day Rich man's game? Who wouldn't gladly pay $1.50/day for the entertainment this game provides? "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
DaReaper Net 7 The Last Brigade 687	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:57:00 - [13] - Quote where is this odd math coming from? When i was in my c5 that had a c3 static, i could net 300m in an hour running anons in my static. thats all the loot. If i cycled i could net the money for a plex in 2 hours. so in one day or 8 hours i could technically plex 4 accounts. Lets add in making about 100m a day or so off pi with 4 accounts. AND if i had done cap escalations i could net about a billion in 1 hour. This whole 'grinding for plex' thing is a lie. Its stupid simple to make 700m isk. you can do it in a single day., or in a c3 in 2 hours. there is no end game in eve. 10 years of eve... yea i'm an addict
Epiphany Achura Federation Clone Services LTD. 5	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:58:00 - [14] - Quote Deebo Singleton wrote: In on the ground floor. Content: THCS wrote: The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget and I feel it kind of alienating the old veterans who are trying to enjoy end-game content and have loads of high-value capitals at risk. As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, its pretty hard to keep up with and enjoy eve content. Playing eve has gotten pretty expensive for a 100+ mil SP /super/ and cap toon and doesn't seem to be slowing down. Lets face it: Owning capitals capitals requires support toons. Players who don't want to shell out $15-20 a month need to buy plexs in game to support their capitals and accounts. With the increased cost of plexs recently, I don't think Capital pilots can sustain their accounts for long without eating into their ISK or RL savings or taking out a loads of time out of RL to put toward grinding for isk. I don't think anyone piloting a ship worth that many billion isk can rightly call himself casual or gripe about lacking income for that matter. What the hell are you doing to make that little isk? If you can't be arsed to pay CCP or pay someone else spacebux so they'll pay CCP for you, then you don't get to have an active account. Sorry Charlie, them the brakes. Someone has to power the servers and keep them running, and your casual cap usership ain't gunna pay the bills. THCS wrote: Lets do the math shall we? An average player plays 10-20 hrs a week and owns 2-3 accounts in eve; at current plex sell and buy order bids, that's 2.2 bil isk a month to keep them active. An average pilot makes roughly 60-100 mil/hr from ratting. To earn a plex, it takes 7-12 hrs to plex one account. That's on average 36 hrs of play time to pay off just the plex for subscription and also does not include operating costs and risk of ship loss. My rough estimate is that it takes 40 hrs of grinding to pay off one's sub for 3 accounts. That's 3 weeks of free continuously effort we have to put towards eve!! Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Does any Eve Vets share the same sentiment? Oh lawd have mercy, someone might have to pay real money for at least one of their accounts if they wanna cut down on their chores! Again, spacebux or realbux, this is a business. You're not here because you're entitled to spaceship comabt. You're here because CCP is being paid for you to enjoy said spaceship combat. The time factor to farm a PLEX is wholly irrelavent to this fact. Even if it costs a trillion isk to buy a PLEX you'd still either have to farm your brains out or shell out a few shekels irl. I can go ahead and let you know ahead of time CCP isn't going to inject tons of free game time into the economy for you. If anyone shares that sentiment with you, they're equally delusional. TL;DR: You are not entitled to free videogames because you feel that you've been around long enough to deserve it. The current price of PLEX is a reflection of the fact that making isk is easier and demand for them is higher than ever. Therefor you're competing with other irl poors for all those "I gotcha bro," tickets in the market. My suggestion for you is this: Either see some of those assets that a "casual," player would never need, close an account or two, OR dig down deep into those empty pockets and find an extra ducket or two. Life ain't fair, nothing is free, you're on your own kid. Get to it. I...I....think I love you. Well put
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly 1257	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:59:00 - [15] - Quote If somebody starts another plex rant i am going to eat every fukking ckicken in the thread! TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 12147	Posted - 2014.07.02 06:03:00 - [16] - Quote End game: Escape life and relax, stress down. GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Steve Celeste Overdogs 297	Posted - 2014.07.02 06:12:00 - [17] - Quote THCS wrote: The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget Eve is NOT free to play. If you can't afford it, you can't play it.
Victor Andall 574	Posted - 2014.07.02 06:22:00 - [18] - Quote "The biggest ships are the endgame." Wow. And by "wow", I mean go back to it. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Pine Marten Viziam Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2014.07.02 06:23:00 - [19] - Quote lol rly? eve endgame is renting out space and having your gametime paid for you by moongoo and rent fees.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 10565	Posted - 2014.07.02 06:31:00 - [20] - Quote I own two capital ships. I have one cyno alt. I don't even use my cyno alt, like, ever. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh.

Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2047	Posted - 2014.07.02 06:36:00 - [21] - Quote WTF is with all this sudden poverty all over forums? If video game is a serious part of your home budget PLEX prices are really last of your problems. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Pine Marten Viziam Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2014.07.02 06:41:00 - [22] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: WTF is with all this sudden poverty all over forums? If video game is a serious part of your home budget PLEX prices are really last of your problems. Maybe some ppl would rather have plex instead of running water.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 1856	Posted - 2014.07.02 07:12:00 - [23] - Quote GÇ£I know not with what weapons the end game will be fought, but post-end game will be fought with rookie ships and shuttles.GÇ¥ .. when everything else is gone ..
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 890	Posted - 2014.07.02 07:15:00 - [24] - Quote THCS wrote: As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve It seems strange that, as a 2003 player, you need 40 hours/month of grind to afford 3 PLEX. If it's true, then I guess you would be better off quitting. Bye, hope you had fun while it lasted!
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 1856	Posted - 2014.07.02 07:16:00 - [25] - Quote ^^Alex, I'm sure you forgot to type it.. but don't forget to ask them if you can haz their stuff. .. when everything else is gone ..
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 891	Posted - 2014.07.02 07:32:00 - [26] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: ^^Alex, I'm sure you forgot to type it.. but don't forget to ask them if you can haz their stuff. Nonono Sibyyl, I wouldn't want it! Since I'm less than an year old and having a RL myself, how could I possibly maintain all those high-value capitals?
Victor Andall 574	Posted - 2014.07.02 07:35:00 - [27] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I own two capital ships. I have one cyno alt. I don't even use my cyno alt, like, ever. I have no experience with capitals and supercaps, but a friend once told me that the second you get into a Titan your character becomes an alt for as long as your Titan is alive. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Baron Chauman Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 14	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:38:00 - [28] - Quote Just try ratting in your caps. You can beat 100m ISK/hr that way. Should help solve the problem one way or the other.
Maeltstome Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi 491	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:46:00 - [29] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: GÇ£I know not with what weapons the end game will be fought, but post-end game will be fought with rookie ships and shuttles.GÇ¥ So on-point. When will this power struggle end?!?
Maeltstome Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi 491	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:49:00 - [30] - Quote Baron Chauman wrote: Just try ratting in your caps. You can beat 100m ISK/hr that way. Should help solve the problem one way or the other. Rat on one carrier, use another char with cyno + scanner to search for complex's. You literally can't get more AFK than carrier ratting. Carriers cost pennies these days. Add in a few lucky half-bil module drops and you're golden.

Mithandra Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep 59	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:49:00 - [31] - Quote Steve Celeste wrote: THCS wrote: The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget Eve is NOT free to play. If you can't afford it, you can't play it. Once again. This pretty much Can we stop with the stealth "reduce plex prices" threads please end game my hairy rotund derriere.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting 1341	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:55:00 - [32] - Quote Perhaps the OP should sell his cap and buy a ride more appropriate to his wallet.
Baron Chauman Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 14	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:12:00 - [33] - Quote Deebo Singleton wrote: The current price of PLEX is a reflection of the fact that making isk is easier and demand for them is higher than ever. Therefor you're competing with other irl poors for all those "I gotcha bro," tickets in the market. Except this isn't quite true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2hsqEvPGWQ CCP basically confirmed during the economics presentation that the plex price increase is due to speculation/hoarding rather than user demand. It's not other "poors" you are competing with, but rather with people who have too much isk who can't find anything better to do with it than buy plex, since this is considered a relatively safe investment. Those get even richer, and everyone who relies on grinding for x plex every month either get poorer, have to grind even more or quit/unsub a couple alts. Capitalism working as it should.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 893	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:24:00 - [34] - Quote Baron Chauman wrote: Deebo Singleton wrote: The current price of PLEX is a reflection of the fact that making isk is easier and demand for them is higher than ever. Therefor you're competing with other irl poors for all those "I gotcha bro," tickets in the market. Except this isn't quite true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2hsqEvPGWQ CCP basically confirmed during the economics presentation that the plex price increase is due to speculation/hoarding rather than user demand. It's not other "poors" you are competing with, but rather with people who have too much isk who can't find anything better to do with it than buy plex, since this is considered a relatively safe investment. Those get even richer, and everyone who relies on grinding for x plex every month either get poorer, have to grind even more or quit/unsub a couple alts. Capitalism simulator operating as intended. I agree PLEX speculation/hoarding probably does more harm than good to the game as a whole. CCP could consider limiting PLEX possession to, say, 12 per character. Not sure if that would f*k up things even worse, though.
Grunanca Doughboys Overload Everything 267	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:35:00 - [35] - Quote THCS wrote: Sup all, I want to start a discussion on Eve endgame and the cost of eve in terms of plex, time and RL $... The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget and I feel it kind of alienating the old veterans who are trying to enjoy end-game content and have loads of high-value capitals at risk. As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, its pretty hard to keep up with and enjoy eve content. Playing eve has gotten pretty expensive for a 100+ mil SP /super/ and cap toon and doesn't seem to be slowing down. Lets face it: Owning capitals capitals requires support toons. Players who don't want to shell out $15-20 a month need to buy plexs in game to support their capitals and accounts. With the increased cost of plexs recently, I don't think Capital pilots can sustain their accounts for long without eating into their ISK or RL savings or taking out a loads of time out of RL to put toward grinding for isk. Lets do the math shall we? An average player plays 10-20 hrs a week and owns 2-3 accounts in eve; at current plex sell and buy order bids, that's 2.2 bil isk a month to keep them active. An average pilot makes roughly 60-100 mil/hr from ratting. To earn a plex, it takes 7-12 hrs to plex one account. That's on average 36 hrs of play time to pay off just the plex for subscription and also does not include operating costs and risk of ship loss. My rough estimate is that it takes 40 hrs of grinding to pay off one's sub for 3 accounts. That's 3 weeks of free continuously effort we have to put towards eve!! Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? Move out of Africa and find a job that pays minimum wage. That way you wont have to use your real savings to pay for an account. Also, what you are complaining about is what you can do with 3 accounts in high sec. Why should you be allowed to pay for your game with minimal effort? You do know, that is exactely why the plex price is skyrocketing? The more people that can afford plexes with casual play, the less people will buy plexes and the price goes up. I can recommend wormholes, level 5 missions or 0.0 plexing. All of these activities can be done solo with some effort and balls, all while giving a minimum yield of 200 mil per hour if done right, even more if done good.
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2047	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:35:00 - [36] - Quote Geezus, Alex, let me hoard in peace. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Solecist Project Deeper Feelings Inc. 2517	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:57:00 - [37] - Quote I congratulate you receiving the award of ... Stupid troll, with people stupider than you falling for it. My current portrait: http://imgur.com/a/q6zRU#10 Sol.freeform: http://imgur.com/a/eFlYD Hey CCP fix your server please! :p
Seven Koskanaiken The Shadow Plague The Bastion 1312	Posted - 2014.07.02 10:49:00 - [38] - Quote THCS wrote: Sup all, I want to start a discussion on Eve endgame and the cost of eve in terms of plex, time and RL $... The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget and I feel it kind of alienating the old veterans who are trying to enjoy end-game content and have loads of high-value capitals at risk. As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, its pretty hard to keep up with and enjoy eve content. Playing eve has gotten pretty expensive for a 100+ mil SP /super/ and cap toon and doesn't seem to be slowing down. Lets face it: Owning capitals capitals requires support toons. Players who don't want to shell out $15-20 a month need to buy plexs in game to support their capitals and accounts. With the increased cost of plexs recently, I don't think Capital pilots can sustain their accounts for long without eating into their ISK or RL savings or taking out a loads of time out of RL to put toward grinding for isk. Lets do the math shall we? An average player plays 10-20 hrs a week and owns 2-3 accounts in eve; at current plex sell and buy order bids, that's 2.2 bil isk a month to keep them active. An average pilot makes roughly 60-100 mil/hr from ratting. To earn a plex, it takes 7-12 hrs to plex one account. That's on average 36 hrs of play time to pay off just the plex for subscription and also does not include operating costs and risk of ship loss. My rough estimate is that it takes 40 hrs of grinding to pay off one's sub for 3 accounts. That's 3 weeks of free continuously effort we have to put towards eve!! Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? Don't worry, you can join INK instead and be a subhuman meatshield slave.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6208	Posted - 2014.07.02 10:52:00 - [39] - Quote Baron Chauman wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2hsqEvPGWQ CCP basically confirmed during the economics presentation that the plex price increase is due to speculation/hoarding rather than user demand. It's not other "poors" you are competing with, but rather with people who have too much isk who can't find anything better to do with it than buy plex, since this is considered a relatively safe investment. Those get even richer, and everyone who relies on grinding for x plex every month either get poorer, have to grind even more or quit/unsub a couple alts. Capitalism simulator operating as intended. Man, I gotta buy more plex... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Yishna Strone Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 2	Posted - 2014.07.02 11:03:00 - [40] - Quote ....You're complaining about having to pay $540 a year? Seriously? As someone has pointed out, that works out to $1.48 a day...If you can't afford to play, maybe you should get a higher paying job? Heck even in my country macdonalds pays $5 an hour.

DeadDuck Macabre Votum Northern Coalition. 76	Posted - 2014.07.02 11:27:00 - [41] - Quote Hey comrade, It's a game, so your 1st purpose playing eve online is having fun. If playing the "end game" is starting to be stressing maybe you should adapt your playing time and style to your confort zone. Thats what I do. I have an account capable of of flying several capital and super capital ships and I dont even think in owning a Super Cap due to some of the issues you referred to on your post. a) I dont want to spend 2563 hours grinding for isks to pay for acount subscriptions b) I dont want to spend my RL money in more accounts c) I dont want to spend hours of my play time doing things that I don't like or become a "EVE Professional" So I adapt my play time to what I can afford/want to fly, and that's all.
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2050	Posted - 2014.07.02 11:29:00 - [42] - Quote DeadDuck, GTFO with your logic and common sense! I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Titania Hrothgar Nemesis Retribution No Excuse. 76	Posted - 2014.07.02 11:38:00 - [43] - Quote I have one account. On that account, I have one pilot. I intend to keep it that way. Anything that I cannot achieve by playing this one toon will not be achieved. I think it's silly to have multiple accounts. Anyone complaining about how much ISK it costs to fuel their multiple accounts needs to rethink their playing style. Maybe you have too many accounts. And for those sitting on trillions of ISK and near 20 accounts, well, good for you. Sounds really BORING to me to control 18 accounts just to mine every single day in High Sec. Good job. If you were that dedicated to doing menial work in real life, you'd be rich there as well and perhaps you are. I'll pass however. I run a Fleet Issue Hurricane in null sec on my toon. Ever since I started playing this game, everyone told me that I could make a thousand times the ISK in null that I could make in high. This isn't true. I'm in null now and all I can manage is a fraction of what I used to make. Null offers a lot of things, but money isn't one of them. It's still fun, risky, and entertaining, but it's warp paths aren't paved with gold. Here's why: I don't have a corp that specializes in mining. Mining is where the money is and frankly, if you have a mining barge, you can make just as much money in High as you can in Low. My Hurricane can barely handle the easiest anomaly in Low and as such, I'm unable to loot because the waves continue to pour forth. Without a battleship, you can't get ahead enough to loot. I don't have a mining barge currently, nor someone to sit there and guard the vulnerable ship from rats while I do mine and I'm not going to train up an alt for it. I'm really close to being able to fly a battleship and so my money will improve, but it will never equal what someone with multiple accounts can earn by mining in High Sec. The real pain in Null is that you cannot sell your "loot" without flying back to High which requires the corp to use jump ships. It's such a pain that it takes scheduled trips which slows things down. Also, the Empire in which they jump considers me a criminal. It's my curse for being the only Mimnitar pilot in the group. I'll never leave this corp however. These guys are awesome! I love them! My point is, if you have alts, you can do whatever you want because you have your own corp that will do whatever you want because they're all your accounts. When this happens, you can mine every single day and immediately fly to a refinery, or simply sell your ore and you have instant ISK and PLEX to keep yourself going. In High Sec, it's all about ease and convenience. Those that insist that Low provides ISK opportunities have it wrong. It's all about high Sec. Null is simply more fun! Hell, even running Level 3's in high was fast because I could fly to a starbase, repair, recharge my shields and cap instantly, and head right back into battle. After looting, I could fly to my favorite system to sell everything I looted for the best price around, and go grab the next mission. I'm rambling so I'll sum up... Eve sort of dropped the ball on this one. Null is a LOT of fun and I'll get my ship soon to handle rats. I've got a hanger full of garbage that's waiting to be sold and I continue to rat belts rather than the anomalies for now. Eventually, my income will be above what it used to be in High simply because the bounties and loot for ratting is much higher, but I'll never in a million years earn what those ISK Boxers earn in High Sec. Not unless Eve makes some serious changes!!!!!! All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.
rogue Aldebaran Rogue Fleet 2	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:07:00 - [44] - Quote Stop spending money on your GF / wife and you should be ok to finance all your accounts with RL money.
Titania Hrothgar Nemesis Retribution No Excuse. 76	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:09:00 - [45] - Quote rogue Aldebaran wrote: Stop spending money on your GF / wife and you should be ok to finance all your accounts with RL money. girlfriend / wife > Eve All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 898	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:14:00 - [46] - Quote Titania Hrothgar wrote: rogue Aldebaran wrote: Stop spending money on your GF / wife and you should be ok to finance all your accounts with RL money. girlfriend / wife > Eve Yes, but like someone said, all they need is love. Give all your love to gf/wife and all your money to CCP and you'll be fine.
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2051	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:15:00 - [47] - Quote Titania Hrothgar wrote: rogue Aldebaran wrote: Stop spending money on your GF / wife and you should be ok to finance all your accounts with RL money. girlfriend / wife > Eve Clearly you are not married. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
De'Veldrin Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables 2449	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:22:00 - [48] - Quote Pay for your account with rl monies instead of space monies and the need to grind suddenly vanishes. It's a blissfiul relaxing feeling, really. MAMBA is recruiting. -áWhen other folks are whining about a lack of content, we go out and create it. The case of Shrodinger's Hotdropper
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting 1343	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:23:00 - [49] - Quote Female company helps with making passive income. Instead of watching the ISK trickle in, you can have lots of sexytime and check your wallet periodically instead of every few minutes.
Lfod Shi Lfod's Ratting and Salvage 201	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:31:00 - [50] - Quote THCS wrote: Sup all, I... ... don't want to shell out $15-20 a month ... Fixed it for you. ...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½

baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 12183	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:36:00 - [51] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I own two capital ships. I have one cyno alt. I don't even use my cyno alt, like, ever. I have one in my hanger and I refuse to touch it for anything other than moving stuff to deployments. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 2390	Posted - 2014.07.02 12:52:00 - [52] - Quote Inxentas Ultramar wrote: Female company helps with making passive income. Instead of watching the ISK trickle in, you can have lots of sexytime and check your wallet periodically instead of every few minutes. This is actually a better idea even without the passive income Titania Hrothgar wrote: girlfriend / wife > Eve Noob "Confirming EVE is hot, batshit crazy, and puts out." -Omar Alharazaad "CAKE CANNOT HOLD UP TO BEING A CHARACTER DAMNIT." --áUnsuccessful At Everything
ISquishWorms 245	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:01:00 - [53] - Quote Adapt or unsub. GÇÿNo, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhhGÇÖ.
Belt Scout Thread Lockaholics Anonymous 525	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:03:00 - [54] - Quote *As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, Yes, math is hard, but are you saying you earn $1.12 an hour? Wherever you live, I think it's time to move. . They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.
Sable Moran Moran Light Industries 401	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:10:00 - [55] - Quote THCS wrote: Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? No. 540 dollars per year for a hobby is really cheap. Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Belt Scout Thread Lockaholics Anonymous 525	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:16:00 - [56] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: Titania Hrothgar wrote: rogue Aldebaran wrote: Stop spending money on your GF / wife and you should be ok to finance all your accounts with RL money. girlfriend / wife > Eve Clearly you are not married. I don't know how anyone can possibly play EvE without a girlfriend/wife. They provide valuable support during fleet ops. Who else is going to run hot pockets and cheetos down the cellar stairs. Not to mention emptying out the refilled mountain dew bottles. They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.
Kristalll The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 307	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:29:00 - [57] - Quote THCS wrote: **** THE FREE MARKET, WE WANT GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES!!! FTFY. MOST super pilots are already a part of major null blocs. Major nullblocs that have renter empires. Major nullblocs that will pay to keep supers active if you're being used enough. GÇ£Die tryingGÇ¥ is the proudest human thing.
Bayonnefrog Hedion University Amarr Empire 33	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:37:00 - [58] - Quote THCS wrote: Sup all, I want to start a discussion on Eve endgame and the cost of eve in terms of plex, time and RL $... The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget and I feel it kind of alienating the old veterans who are trying to enjoy end-game content and have loads of high-value capitals at risk. As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, its pretty hard to keep up with and enjoy eve content. Playing eve has gotten pretty expensive for a 100+ mil SP /super/ and cap toon and doesn't seem to be slowing down. Lets face it: Owning capitals capitals requires support toons. Players who don't want to shell out $15-20 a month need to buy plexs in game to support their capitals and accounts. With the increased cost of plexs recently, I don't think Capital pilots can sustain their accounts for long without eating into their ISK or RL savings or taking out a loads of time out of RL to put toward grinding for isk. Lets do the math shall we? An average player plays 10-20 hrs a week and owns 2-3 accounts in eve; at current plex sell and buy order bids, that's 2.2 bil isk a month to keep them active. An average pilot makes roughly 60-100 mil/hr from ratting. To earn a plex, it takes 7-12 hrs to plex one account. That's on average 36 hrs of play time to pay off just the plex for subscription and also does not include operating costs and risk of ship loss. My rough estimate is that it takes 40 hrs of grinding to pay off one's sub for 3 accounts. That's 3 weeks of free continuously effort we have to put towards eve!! Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? Um trading is where to cash is at. No need to rat 40 hours.
Victoria Sin Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 656	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:43:00 - [59] - Quote Here's how it works: (1) You're wealthy in real life and can plex a Titan any time you want Can be discounted because not many people would be willing to drop that much real-life cash on an in-game item. Some do of course but in general, no. (2) You've been grinding ISK for 5 years and can afford 1 Titan This is do-able but there's a problem with it: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Indeed as a general rule I don't like to spend more than 10% of my wealth on anything, which is why the highest ship I've achieved so far grinding was a JF. (3) You're a CEO or director and have access to corp or alliance wallets Here you've got hundreds and possibly thousands of minions giving you tax or rent or whatever. You can lord it over them in your Titan and think you're the big man. Much like successful people in real life, you have come to believe you actually earned it even though you didn't really. You just hustled a crew together and ripped into their efforts from (2) by taxing them "for the greater good" (your own wallet). Of course in general this sucks but I have to applaud anyone dedicated enough and who's demonstrated the kind of interpersonal skills you need in order to hold people together long enough to bend them over like that. (4) SRP Does any corp or alliance SRP Titans, or help with their build costs? I'm sure they do. Not in my neck of the woods but otherwise this is a question of good interpersonal skills, trust and effort, so similar to (2) and (3) but a different strategy.
Titania Hrothgar Nemesis Retribution No Excuse. 76	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:52:00 - [60] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: Titania Hrothgar wrote: rogue Aldebaran wrote: Stop spending money on your GF / wife and you should be ok to finance all your accounts with RL money. girlfriend / wife > Eve Clearly you are not married. Clearly I am. We met on an online game about 15 years ago. She and I play WoW together and I play this. All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.

Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 482	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:52:00 - [61] - Quote Belt Scout wrote: I don't know how anyone can possibly play EvE without a girlfriend/wife. They provide valuable support during fleet ops. Who else is going to run hot pockets and cheetos down the cellar stairs. Not to mention emptying out the refilled mountain dew bottles. This is one of the unmentioned agonies of the warp-speed changes. It didn't used to matter what ship you were flying, you knew how many AU a warp you needed for a toilet-dash or kitchen fly-by. Now its all guesswork, and woe betide you if you are in a T3 and accidentally guage your window of opportunity on when you were flying a battleship!
DownTwisTeD KaMiKaZes 6	Posted - 2014.07.02 13:53:00 - [62] - Quote whelp, I don't make 100mil a hr ratting so i'm guessing your to rich anyway, Try 100 mil every 6hrs.. I don't think of these cards as isk as others do but rather what they are time to use in game so if they are to much to buy in game to use vs time to earn they will have no value to me me as that, "like I rather just buy them to use on the site." Like I play knowing with too much in highend ships and know it so like I make it to costly to play more then the game per say.
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2055	Posted - 2014.07.02 14:12:00 - [63] - Quote Titania Hrothgar wrote: Schmata Bastanold wrote: Clearly you are not married. Clearly I am. We met on an online game about 15 years ago. She and I play WoW together and I play this. Oh, I understand now why you said that wife > Eve. WoW players are sensitive and you have to be gentle around them. I know I would do anything only to avoid tears and whine IRL. :) I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold
Deebo Singleton Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2014.07.02 14:19:00 - [64] - Quote Baron Chauman wrote: Deebo Singleton wrote: The current price of PLEX is a reflection of the fact that making isk is easier and demand for them is higher than ever. Therefor you're competing with other irl poors for all those "I gotcha bro," tickets in the market. Except this isn't quite true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2hsqEvPGWQ CCP basically confirmed during the economics presentation that the plex price increase is due to speculation/hoarding rather than user demand. It's not other "poors" you are competing with, but rather with people who have too much isk who can't find anything better to do with it than buy plex, since this is considered a relatively safe investment. Those get even richer, and everyone who relies on grinding for x plex every month either get poorer, have to grind even more or quit/unsub a couple alts. Capitalism simulator operating as intended. Here is the thing about that brodude. Speculation is demand. Use being delayed doesn't take the plex out of the game or money out of ccp pockets. What the plex price represents is a lot of players thinking that isk is losing its purchasing power and they are correct. Absent the ability to speculate there would be much more volatility in the price and it would be even harder to plex any accounts or sell plex for isk. Nobody likes speculators, but they are only doing what's reasonable given the state of the game economy. Ultimately this bubble will only subside if lots of high account count players stop using plex and or if isk faucets in the game are reduced.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting 1343	Posted - 2014.07.02 16:59:00 - [65] - Quote An annual sub is 132 euro or whatever. No reason to pay more then that per year. Having a capitol and alts to sustain them independently in the first place is a choice. Not using said alts to accumulate enough wealth to PLEX them for free, is a choice. Every account has 2 characters you can skill to do PI, mining, POS stuff, whatever. Not utilizing these slots because you want to min/max your main, is a choice. The need for cyno alts is borne from the unwillingness to trust another player to light one: again, a choice. So it all comes down to making better choices.
Domanique Altares Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 3059	Posted - 2014.07.02 17:43:00 - [66] - Quote What is this 'end game?' I didn't realize that every player in EVE was being funneled toward the same goals. "i advice you to go spit on the back of someone else because you are fall on the wrong horse." - Meio Rayliegh
Prince Kobol 1966	Posted - 2014.07.02 17:47:00 - [67] - Quote So let me get this straight. You were able to grind enough isk to buy a super, fit it and knowing NC fitting requirements it means it isn't a **** Fit + implants and your crying about having no isk? Really?
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 7027	Posted - 2014.07.02 17:48:00 - [68] - Quote Domanique Altares wrote: What is this 'end game?' I didn't realize that every player in EVE was being funneled toward the same goals. You didn't read the manual that came with the EVE Online boxed set? I don't have mine anymore, but I remember it clearly had a section called "Victory Conditions". They were: "Conquer 1/half of null sec by making almost everyone blue to you, then sells lots of moon goo till you own all the isk in the game" or "Mine Veldspaar in a Dread, in High Sec, and let it be totally legal" or "get group of angry nerds to get into ships and bump other angry nerds who are mining, extra EVe win points if you can get them to throw real life threats at them". So far only 3 guys have won EVE, need to more before CCP will say **** it and do a universal reset
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 3799	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:07:00 - [69] - Quote Yishna Strone wrote: ....You're complaining about having to pay $540 a year? Seriously? As someone has pointed out, that works out to $1.48 a day...If you can't afford to play, maybe you should get a higher paying job? Heck even in my country macdonalds pays $5 an hour. Still trying to figure out the $540 figure, as a subscription is only $131.40 per year.
Seven Koskanaiken The Shadow Plague The Bastion 1314	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:25:00 - [70] - Quote Belt Scout wrote: Schmata Bastanold wrote: Titania Hrothgar wrote: rogue Aldebaran wrote: Stop spending money on your GF / wife and you should be ok to finance all your accounts with RL money. girlfriend / wife > Eve Clearly you are not married. I don't know how anyone can possibly play EvE without a girlfriend/wife. They provide valuable support during fleet ops. Who else is going to run hot pockets and cheetos down the cellar stairs. Not to mention emptying out the refilled mountain dew bottles. As a blueneck I often make entire 7 course meals while waiting 3 days for a titan bridge.

THCS Kenshin. Northern Coalition. 1	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:26:00 - [71] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: Yishna Strone wrote: ....You're complaining about having to pay $540 a year? Seriously? As someone has pointed out, that works out to $1.48 a day...If you can't afford to play, maybe you should get a higher paying job? Heck even in my country macdonalds pays $5 an hour. Still trying to figure out the $540 figure, as a subscription is only $131.40 per year. Sigh... I mentioned the metrics in my first post of what I used in the estimate of that figure. $15 * 12 (Months in a year) = $180 Take 180 and multiply it by 3 (Three toons) = $540 Boy... you'll need to go back to grade school if you need help with this.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 12196	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:28:00 - [72] - Quote THCS wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: Yishna Strone wrote: ....You're complaining about having to pay $540 a year? Seriously? As someone has pointed out, that works out to $1.48 a day...If you can't afford to play, maybe you should get a higher paying job? Heck even in my country macdonalds pays $5 an hour. Still trying to figure out the $540 figure, as a subscription is only $131.40 per year. Sigh... I mentioned the metrics in my first post of what I used in the estimate those fitures. $15 * 12 (Months in a year) = $180 Take 180 and multiply it by 3 (Three toons) = $540 Boy... you'll need to go back to grade school if you need help with this. Isn't a year long sub cheaper? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
MatrixSkye Mk2 Republic University Minmatar Republic 809	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:29:00 - [73] - Quote I too would like to own 3 accounts. But I don't because I cannot afford them. So, what's the moral of the story?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 22772	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:30:00 - [74] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: I too would like to own 3 accounts. But I don't because I cannot afford them. So, what's the moral of the story? That the OP's GÇ£averagesGÇ¥ are probably not that average. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Anslo Scope Works 5774	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:32:00 - [75] - Quote I wish it was. I really wanna buy a Jag F-Type. Sadly, Eve is not necessarily a rich man's game. Just a game for the apex of nerdom. -\_For the Proveldtariat_/-
THCS Kenshin. Northern Coalition. 1	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:33:00 - [76] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: I too would like to own 3 accounts. But I don't because I cannot afford them. So, what's the moral of the story? High plex prices make it harder for you to pay without paying $s for subs - which was something achievable for a semi-casual player who plays 10 hrs a week.
Deebo Singleton Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:33:00 - [77] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Isn't a year long sub cheaper? Have a lot to learn about building up a narrative, don't they?
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 10566	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:34:00 - [78] - Quote THCS wrote: Tau Cabalander wrote: Yishna Strone wrote: ....You're complaining about having to pay $540 a year? Seriously? As someone has pointed out, that works out to $1.48 a day...If you can't afford to play, maybe you should get a higher paying job? Heck even in my country macdonalds pays $5 an hour. Still trying to figure out the $540 figure, as a subscription is only $131.40 per year. Sigh... I mentioned the metrics in my first post of what I used in the estimate of that figure. $15 * 12 (Months in a year) = $180 Take 180 and multiply it by 3 (Three toons) = $540 Boy... you'll need to go back to grade school if you need help with this. You should take your own advice. Year sub is $131.40 as quoted above. $10.95 per month. So for three accounts that's $394.20 per year. No wonder you're poor. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh.
THCS Kenshin. Northern Coalition. 1	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:39:00 - [79] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: [quote=THCS][quote=Tau Cabalander][quote=Yishna Strone] No wonder you're poor. Says the guy who paid for eve all these years with real cash. Apparently I'm a couple hundred richer than you because I subbed with plexs I earned...
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 917	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:43:00 - [80] - Quote THCS wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: [quote=THCS][quote=Tau Cabalander][quote=Yishna Strone] No wonder you're poor. Says the guy who paid for eve all these years with real cash. Apparently I'm a couple hundred richer than you because I subbed with plexs I earned... I'm pretty sure Mr. Warren Buffet spends several million dollars / month more than me but, sadly, that doesn't make me a millionaire.

LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 436	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:43:00 - [81] - Quote THCS wrote: ... An average pilot makes roughly 60-100 mil/hr from ratting. To earn a plex, it takes 7-12 hrs to plex one account.... In high-end wormholes soloable content generates you 500-700mil in 15-20 minutes on average. Couple of hours of running sites is all you need to finance ALL your toons. If you wish to continue playing in null-sec with capitals, dedicate a high-skilled alt to a wormhole crew to generate iskies.
Titania Hrothgar Nemesis Retribution No Excuse. 77	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:44:00 - [82] - Quote Schmata Bastanold wrote: Titania Hrothgar wrote: Schmata Bastanold wrote: Clearly you are not married. Clearly I am. We met on an online game about 15 years ago. She and I play WoW together and I play this. Oh, I understand now why you said that wife > Eve. WoW players are sensitive and you have to be gentle around them. I know I would do anything only to avoid tears and whine IRL. :) You sound as if you have/would marry someone who makes you unhappy. Why? I found someone whose hobbies parallel my own. That's what everyone should do, but they're all too eager to be married to wait to meet the right one. All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 10567	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:45:00 - [83] - Quote THCS wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: No wonder you're poor. Says the guy who paid for eve all these years with real cash. Apparently I'm a couple hundred richer than you because I subbed with plexs I earned... A couple hundred dollars? Color me impressed. I've been plexing for a while, by the way. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 3799	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:02:00 - [84] - Quote THCS wrote: Says the guy who paid for eve all these years with real cash. Apparently I'm a couple hundred richer than you because I subbed with plexs I earned... True, though I've not had to worry about earning ISK to buy PLEX, and just have fun doing whatever I want to do. You might consider reducing your PLEX load via even one subscription. You may find that affordable, plus reduces the demands on your in-game wallet. You don't have to subscribe or PLEX all your accounts.
THCS Kenshin. Northern Coalition. 1	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:03:00 - [85] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: THCS wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: No wonder you're poor. Says the guy who paid for eve all these years with real cash. Apparently I'm a couple hundred richer than you because I subbed with plexs I earned... A couple hundred dollars? Color me impressed. I've been plexing for a while, by the way. Man I don't understand you...What you're position on the matter then... I guess this guy only end-game is to irritate people online. Congrats dude. You successful done what you've set out to do...
Leoric Firesword Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc. 24	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:04:00 - [86] - Quote look into PI, market trading, scamming. all these take considerably less time. as far as that goes, with 2 PI alts and a little help from this character for extra PI extraction I was able to plex my account and have roughly 1 bil extra to play around with...something tells me you're doing it wrong.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 10567	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:04:00 - [87] - Quote THCS wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: THCS wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: No wonder you're poor. Says the guy who paid for eve all these years with real cash. Apparently I'm a couple hundred richer than you because I subbed with plexs I earned... A couple hundred dollars? Color me impressed. I've been plexing for a while, by the way. Man I don't understand you...What you're position on the matter then... I guess this guy only end-game is to irritate people online. Congrats dude. You successful done what you've set out to do... I'm sorry for correcting your math? It's still wrong though. No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh.
Seven Koskanaiken The Shadow Plague The Bastion 1316	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:15:00 - [88] - Quote THCS wrote: MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: I too would like to own 3 accounts. But I don't because I cannot afford them. So, what's the moral of the story? High plex prices make it harder for you to play without paying $s for subs - which was something achievable for a semi-casual player who plays 10 hrs a week. Or perhaps the period where you could roll alts out the wazoo because of cheap plex was an aberration, and this new period where 1 self confessed casual player finds maintaining multiple free accounts quite challenging is...actually normal and reasonable.
Xavier Liche ACME Mineral and Gas 70	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:31:00 - [89] - Quote THCS wrote: Sup all, I want to start a discussion on Eve endgame and the cost of eve in terms of plex, time and RL $... The inflated plexs price is putting a serious clamp on people's budget and I feel it kind of alienating the old veterans who are trying to enjoy end-game content and have loads of high-value capitals at risk. As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, its pretty hard to keep up with and enjoy eve content. Playing eve has gotten pretty expensive for a 100+ mil SP /super/ and cap toon and doesn't seem to be slowing down. Lets face it: Owning capitals capitals requires support toons. Players who don't want to shell out $15-20 a month need to buy plexs in game to support their capitals and accounts. With the increased cost of plexs recently, I don't think Capital pilots can sustain their accounts for long without eating into their ISK or RL savings or taking out a loads of time out of RL to put toward grinding for isk. Lets do the math shall we? An average player plays 10-20 hrs a week and owns 2-3 accounts in eve; at current plex sell and buy order bids, that's 2.2 bil isk a month to keep them active. An average pilot makes roughly 60-100 mil/hr from ratting. To earn a plex, it takes 7-12 hrs to plex one account. That's on average 36 hrs of play time to pay off just the plex for subscription and also does not include operating costs and risk of ship loss. My rough estimate is that it takes 40 hrs of grinding to pay off one's sub for 3 accounts. That's 3 weeks of free continuously effort we have to put towards eve!! Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? You are trying to consume content with alts that corps work on as a team and you want to pay for your accounts with Plex, all the while playing only 10-20 hours a week? Good luck with that
Schmata Bastanold Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 2072	Posted - 2014.07.02 19:43:00 - [90] - Quote Titania Hrothgar wrote: You sound as if you have/would marry someone who makes you unhappy. Why? I found someone whose hobbies parallel my own. That's what everyone should do, but they're all too eager to be married to wait to meet the right one. Happy? Pfft... Taxes, that's a good reason to get married. Especially when you can afford to not grind for PLEX :) I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold

Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 321	Posted - 2014.07.02 20:04:00 - [91] - Quote Ptraci wrote: THCS wrote: Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? Funny, CCP wants to keep the price high, because the more isk a PLEX is worth the easier it is to sell one for real cash. With b-5rb ccp said that the chinese server the plex cost over a billion. It still go a lot higher. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
Skydell Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums 576	Posted - 2014.07.03 08:40:00 - [92] - Quote Leoric Firesword wrote: look into PI, market trading, scamming. all these take considerably less time. as far as that goes, with 2 PI alts and a little help from this character for extra PI extraction I was able to plex my account and have roughly 1 bil extra to play around with...something tells me you're doing it wrong. I set up 4 accounts, 12 characters with PI skills. I had 4x5 planets and 8x4 Planets and was pulling daily. 1.2 billion was top end pay out at the time from all 12 combined. If I had access to null I could have increased that to 150% but I would have had to move it all at some point to a place to sell it. The thing I noticed with PI was the timers were all set up to pile in to one another. An extraction would run 10 minutes, it would process at 30 so you needed storage between your extraction and processing. Even with 4 processors, one for every two heads I could backlog the extraction and waste cycles. In addition it became a longest timer based process and the amount you could make was absolute in the end with a very low amount no matter where you set it up. Most Null sec PI either never leaves the planet or leaves it at the same rate as High Sec stuff does. Long story short, PI is a well thought out tail chaser and really only serves to provide Null with cheap, local POS related items and you don't just log in and roll out passive income. My 12 were taking up most of my game time, setting up heads in prime locations, going out and getting PI. It was a full time job.
Lianara Dayton Society for Peace and Unity 15	Posted - 2014.07.03 09:48:00 - [93] - Quote @OP: Uhm, I (as a player with far more RL money then game time) never bought a PLEX with ISK before and I have 3 accounts for the past 5 years, including a capital character. How is this new or even a problem? Most MMOs don't give you any option what-so-ever except paying with RL money... so I really don't see the problem. If you can't afford to play EVE with multiple accounts then simply sell your super and buy a few years of game time and 500 subcaps to PVP with? I don't understand why you seem to think that's it your "right" to be able to pay for your multiple EVE accounts with cheap PLEX that you can earn with little effort... Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
Lone Gunman Forhotea Corporation 30	Posted - 2014.07.03 15:11:00 - [94] - Quote Current Jita PLEX prices closing in on 800m isk.
Serene Repose 1422	Posted - 2014.07.03 15:26:00 - [95] - Quote EvE has an endgame? When did this happen? (I never got this memo - an EvE endgame....) I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Da'iel Zehn Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 172	Posted - 2014.07.03 18:13:00 - [96] - Quote @OP Does EvE have an end game? I don't see flying dreads, carriers, super carriers, or titans as the end game. My character is 9 years old, and I will probably never fly one of those ships. Especially one that I can't dock in a station somewhere. Perhaps you might want to look for some other goals. Daniel Zehn Keeper of Evil Frosty PLEX for...-á :-)
RoAnnon Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 340	Posted - 2014.07.03 18:37:00 - [97] - Quote What is this "endgame" of which you speak...? So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.
Chewytowel Haklar Minmatar Brotherhood 9	Posted - 2014.07.03 19:14:00 - [98] - Quote RoAnnon wrote: What is this "endgame" of which you speak...? One has only to create their version of end game in EVE.
Socrates' psalmody Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:17:00 - [99] - Quote I know this is going to hurt people but seriously, I just don't get it why people complain that they can no longer play the game for free or like it used to cost them $0. For the last time I check CCP was still a for-profit entity. Everything it does, including introducing PLEX is all about maximizing its profit. Now I know some would argue that, if PLEX is no longer affordable since it costs 740M isk then they would not play this game any more. OK fine, just leave. If you are consuming in-game time(for little or much time i'm not interested) for isk, then convert it to PLEX just to keep you sub going, good for you. If you think it is getting hard to do that, and you are not happy about that, what do you expect me to say? You are already enjoying the game for free(don't argue your game time is money, no it is not), all you have to do is to spend more time grinding isk in the game, then you still can play it for free. If you expect PLEX to sell at 200M to keep all your 3 accounts active, you are just greedy. Don't you know that USD is inflating also? Just take note of the grocery bill the next time you go to supermarket. I don't know where you live but in my place for the past half year the grocery bill increased for at least 5%, that's at least 5%. got to go hmmm......
Jimmy O'Shanty The Westies 14	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:23:00 - [100] - Quote End game? This "thing of ours" doesn't end.

Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6210	Posted - 2014.07.04 11:42:00 - [101] - Quote Da'iel Zehn wrote: I don't see flying dreads, carriers, super carriers, or titans as the end game. More like not logging in supercarrier or titans. unless your endgame is vince draken's superwreckingball fleet ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 289	Posted - 2014.07.04 12:36:00 - [102] - Quote If you define your endgame in terms of the things you could not do when you began playing because you could not afford it then of course your endgame is a rich man's game. Similarly if you define your endgame based on the things you believed you could not do as a newbie because you lacked skills the endgame becomes something for highly skilled characters. Of course, if you define your endgame as being able to jump in a Rifter and go out and shoot stuff whenever you want then the endgame is neither a highly skilled, nor rich man's game...
Jandice Ymladris Aurora Arcology 715	Posted - 2014.07.04 17:38:00 - [103] - Quote THCS wrote: . As a semi-casual player and full-time worker that doesn't want to play $540/ year or 480 hrs of my time just to keep a float in eve, its pretty hard to keep up with and enjoy eve content. You are aware there's a yearly subscription plan yes? That costs 131 Euro a year (dunno the amount in other currencies, but I assume it's about equal value) While it indeed takes a bite out your real-life wallet, it's actually fairly reasonable, you pay 131 euro a year for your hobby, sounds pretty okay for me! Quite some hobbies are more expensive on a yearly basis. From the conversion 540 dollar = 480 hr, it does seem subscription is still kind of expensive for you (roughly guessed 131 euro = 120 hours I think) While I do get you want to pay your account with PLEX so it doesn't consume any RL currency as it can be very tight forpeople, you should be able to make it okay with 2-3 accounts, especially if you do wormholes, even simply raiding them is very profitable (aka you scan m out, jump in, do sites and jump out). Another option is to specialize one of your alts into incursions & join one of a multitude of the incursion groups for big isk. Your other alts/chars can then do a variety of isk-generating stff wile your incursion char is in queue to join an incursion fleet. My advice would be to specialize your chars, to easier isk making: Scan-alt, plexrunners/WH Site runners, Incursion runner. Such acts will bolwter your isk-profit greatly. In short: Pay by Plex: gameplay geared for profit, to buy monthly PLEX and to cover for months with subpar isk income & to cover isk-expenses (new ships, replacement ships etc) Pay by Subscription: More time for the enjoyable stuff, without stressing an isk income to pay for your subscription, just keep an income afloat to buy new ships/replace ships The Minmatar Midsummer Festival! -á-áCelebrating Federation Day in Dodixie!
000Hunter000 Missiles 'R' Us 29	Posted - 2014.07.04 18:20:00 - [104] - Quote Chribba wrote: End game: Escape life and relax, stress down. This offcourse... Get out of the house a lil and smell the flowers
Felicity Love Ka'ra Shabuir Inc. 1985	Posted - 2014.07.04 18:36:00 - [105] - Quote The true "end game" here is something far bigger than any PVP battle.... aka "Spreadsheets Online". Think of it as this games iteration of the "Golden Rule". "Psssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh" -á-- That ambiguous and pseudo-technical term used by management to describe, to staff, how frakking cool something looks inside their own heads.
flakeys Caldari Provisions Caldari State 2283	Posted - 2014.07.05 10:03:00 - [106] - Quote THCS wrote: Idk, I kinda want eve developers to bring price of plexs down because this inflation trend is really putty a strain on my RL time and In-game budget. Do any of you Eve Vets share the same sentiment? You have choosen to 'grind ' your isk for 10 years in eve.It would have been wiser in the meantime to start a profession that would let you lower your 'grind' every month but you have choosen not to and as such even after 10 years of playing eve you are still stuck in the grind. That is not the fault of CCP but of your own doing. That said , plex is a product you can CHOOSE to pay for your gametime but not need as there still is the paying option for your subscription , it is an added luxury in eve.If you feel that it requires too much effort to keep your accounts active and that you don't think eve is worthy of paying for it with rl cash then my only suggestion can be to either play with only 1 account or not play at all. So no , this vet does not share your sentiment. By the way on a sidenote , i also don't agree with the statement that 'capitals is the endgame' . We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
flakeys Caldari Provisions Caldari State 2283	Posted - 2014.07.05 10:06:00 - [107] - Quote Jacob Holland wrote: If you define your endgame in terms of the things you could not do when you began playing because you could not afford it then of course your endgame is a rich man's game. Similarly if you define your endgame based on the things you believed you could not do as a newbie because you lacked skills the endgame becomes something for highly skilled characters. Of course, if you define your endgame as being able to jump in a Rifter and go out and shoot stuff whenever you want then the endgame is neither a highly skilled, nor rich man's game... Now this IS how i view endgame.To me endgame means just as the word describes having reached the end of the game.In eve's case that would mean to me having done everything i can in eve to it's fullest and even after 10 years of having played eve i still have not reached that endgame by far . We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Edmark I Black Serpent Technologies The Unthinkables 82	Posted - 2014.07.05 17:13:00 - [108] - Quote Jimmy O'Shanty wrote: End game? This "thing of ours" doesn't end. True Story!
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 5389	Posted - 2014.07.05 17:22:00 - [109] - Quote OP wrote: EVE end game, a Rich Man's Game? OP, you are posting in EVE's end game. You don't need to be rich and you only need one active sub to participate. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Xavier Liche ACME Mineral and Gas 79	Posted - 2014.07.06 15:40:00 - [110] - Quote Mr Epeen wrote: OP wrote: EVE end game, a Rich Man's Game? OP, you are posting in EVE's end game. You don't need to be rich and you only need one active sub to participate. Mr Epeen lol /thread

True Sight Deep Freeze Industries 189	Posted - 2014.07.06 15:44:00 - [111] - Quote Ultimately, eve is a subscription based game, you are meant to pay a monthly fee to gain access to the services, for almost all MMO Subscription games, there is no way to avoid this. the PLEX system provides a unique situation where those with enough wealth in-game can effectively buy their gametime with their wealth, from those with the real-world wealth to spend on PLEX they sell for ISK. It's a symbiotic relationship, based on Supply and Demand, if the market is stable at 400m isk per PLEX, then people are willing to sell a PLEX for 400m ISK and others are willing to grind 400m in-game just to avoid paying the subscription. If a PLEX costs 900m, then the same is true. Ultimately, if you feel it is "not worth it" then perhaps you should not be playing eve, rather than demanding that it should be cheaper for you to do so.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5439	Posted - 2014.07.06 23:18:00 - [112] - Quote I have slaves. They make my isk for me. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com
Pine Marten Viziam Amarr Empire 48	Posted - 2014.07.08 17:21:00 - [113] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: I have slaves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXr25JTr-Vs
evefas Destructive Influence Northern Coalition. 0	Posted - 2014.07.08 18:24:00 - [114] - Quote Well, while plexes are at top prices then ppl like to buy them and sell for ingame isk, if you would know all about Iceland then you would know that it uses ISK in rl allso in another form ofc. Well atm you can not walk into a bank and buy anything for that isk, exept,,, well nothing as its all under strikt laws. So while the status in Iceland is like that for international company to run, why in the GODS NAME should they try to lower price of plex in eve ? Sorry m8, but in all way this is in ccp's favour atm.
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan 6034	Posted - 2014.07.08 18:26:00 - [115] - Quote evefas wrote: Well, while plexes are at top prices then ppl like to buy them and sell for ingame isk, if you would know all about Iceland then you would know that it uses ISK in rl allso in another form ofc. Well atm you can not walk into a bank and buy anything for that isk, exept,,, well nothing as its all under strikt laws. So while the status in Iceland is like that for international company to run, why in the GODS NAME should they try to lower price of plex in eve ? Sorry m8, but in all way this is in ccp's favour atm. En anglais, sil vous plait "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
MHayes Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.07.08 19:32:00 - [116] - Quote This game is worth a sub, if you wanna play then pay.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6217	Posted - 2014.07.08 23:39:00 - [117] - Quote MHayes wrote: This game is worth a sub Interesting concept to bring up in General Discussion ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2014.07.09 00:42:00 - [118] - Quote I have to be honest and say I have not read any part of this thread other than the OP: The median household income in the USA was approx $52000 in 2013. Presuming the average household works 60 hours per week, that equals $16.67 per hour. A 3 month subscription costs $38.85 or approximately 2.3 hours of the average household income. If it takes 7-10 hours to grind the isk for a one month plex, why would you grind for 21 hours in game to save your earnings from 2.3 hours of real life work? Time is the most valuable commodity you have. Talk to your wife/gf/partner about moving some RL money into a subscription. $38.85 is also $0.43 a day - or $3.02 a week or less than a cup of coffee a week...


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