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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
56
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Posted - 2012.01.11 16:25:00 -
[121] - Quote
Walker Ahashion wrote:Does a black ops fleet that jumps in, jump back out again after the fight? Or do they have to travel through the gates to get back to where they came from?
Depends on how much fuel they have and how far there going I would guess.
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
571
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 17:34:00 -
[122] - Quote
Walker Ahashion wrote:Does a black ops fleet that jumps in, jump back out again after the fight? Or do they have to travel through the gates to get back to where they came from?
I cyno mine back, personally.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Biced
Retaliation Nation
2
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Posted - 2012.01.11 18:46:00 -
[123] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:So what your saying is my widow SHOULD get a range and ecm and ecm burst bounus? ok!
Also lots of the pie ships now have one of there races ewar as a bounus, so what they weren't like that the hole time, they should change back.
they mainly changed the bonus to the weapon systems.
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Its should be clear to all that the Black Op is still in prenerf form like how lots of stuff usta be release in the olde times of EvE.
The other members of its tree have better resist and higher scan rez than there T1 counter parts.
the first part is new to me if you have a link to a dev saying they release ships in a prenerfed mode i would like to read it.
i can not understand anything for prenerf and on sorry.
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Also only HAC's, AF's always keep there T1 bonuses, the rest get a change up, that or just my logi in my hanger is missing its sweet mining bonus.
told you go check it out, but no....
launch eve. open market and look at the t2 ships, as i said there are some exceptions.
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Just because recons can already use it dose not mean more or different types of Ewar in the fleet would be bad, never had my Falcon turned down form a fleet because there was a Lachesis or an other Falcon for that matter.
never had a falcon turned down sure that ship can pretty much fit in any fleet comp. (though i know one fc that turned down a falcon on a frig roam and told the guys to bring kitsune)
but how about a rook? or better yet how about a scorp?
the only bs size ew platform in game is the scorp and lets face it, it is not that great, you would rather be in a falcon then a scorp in most cases. and for that same reason you wouldnt want black ops to replace your ew in gang.
not saying that it will hurt having it there or anything like that. just saying that there are dedicated ships for that, which will outpreform them in most cases while costing way less and requier less training.
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:You are the troll here.
and this combined with everything else you have posted clearly means you did not undestand anything of what i have said. |
Guillame Herschel
NME1
33
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Posted - 2012.01.11 19:50:00 -
[124] - Quote
Murtific wrote:Guillame Herschel wrote:Yeah, there's nothing quite as useful as an ECM boat with 90mm scan res.  Definitely have to go with a faction cloak bud.. 
That IS with a faction cloak. Although, it's not like it matters. The difference between Faction and T2 is like 91mm vs 96mm. Woop-de-do.
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
572
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Posted - 2012.01.11 19:57:00 -
[125] - Quote
Guillame Herschel wrote:Murtific wrote:Guillame Herschel wrote:Yeah, there's nothing quite as useful as an ECM boat with 90mm scan res. Definitely have to go with a faction cloak bud.. That IS with a faction cloak. Although, it's not like it matters. The difference between Faction and T2 is like 91mm vs 96mm. Woop-de-do.
Don't fit a cloak. I'm serious. It gimps the fit and takes a utility high that has better uses.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Guillame Herschel
NME1
33
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Posted - 2012.01.12 00:10:00 -
[126] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Guillame Herschel wrote:Murtific wrote:Guillame Herschel wrote:Yeah, there's nothing quite as useful as an ECM boat with 90mm scan res. Definitely have to go with a faction cloak bud.. That IS with a faction cloak. Although, it's not like it matters. The difference between Faction and T2 is like 91mm vs 96mm. Woop-de-do. Don't fit a cloak. I'm serious. It gimps the fit and takes a utility high that has better uses. -Liang
Without a cloak, a Scorpion is a whole entire hull with a better use than a Widow.
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
573
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 00:14:00 -
[127] - Quote
Guillame Herschel wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Guillame Herschel wrote:Murtific wrote:Guillame Herschel wrote:Yeah, there's nothing quite as useful as an ECM boat with 90mm scan res. Definitely have to go with a faction cloak bud.. That IS with a faction cloak. Although, it's not like it matters. The difference between Faction and T2 is like 91mm vs 96mm. Woop-de-do. Don't fit a cloak. I'm serious. It gimps the fit and takes a utility high that has better uses. -Liang Without a cloak, a Scorpion is a whole entire hull with a better use than a Widow.
The Scorpion has a jump drive and a 30% ECM strength bonus? Really?
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Murtific
Snuff Box
26
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Posted - 2012.01.12 05:15:00 -
[128] - Quote
Guillame Herschel wrote:Murtific wrote:Guillame Herschel wrote:Yeah, there's nothing quite as useful as an ECM boat with 90mm scan res. Definitely have to go with a faction cloak bud.. That IS with a faction cloak. Although, it's not like it matters. The difference between Faction and T2 is like 91mm vs 96mm. Woop-de-do.
Quite literally depending upon ship type and fitting. I know for a fact its higher.  |
Time Hunt
S0utherN Comfort
Controlled Chaos
0
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Posted - 2012.01.17 18:12:00 -
[129] - Quote
I'm just gonna keep bumping this until I get a Reply from a DEV!  |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2012.01.17 18:34:00 -
[130] - Quote
Time Hunt wrote:I'm just gonna keep bumping this until I get a Reply from a DEV!
never gonna happen. much like ccp will not touch the subject of perma cloak. And i fear you are likelly to go old and die before this happens |
Guillame Herschel
NME1
35
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Posted - 2012.01.18 01:22:00 -
[131] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:The Scorpion has a jump drive and a 30% ECM strength bonus? Really?
-Liang
If you are using the Widow as a Covert Bridge, no one cares how low the scan res is. Fit a cloak so it doesn't get killed so easily.
If you are using it as a ECM platform, why? Even without a cloak, it has terrible scan res, just like all battleship EWAR platforms. Bridge in 3 Falcons. Way more effective. Three Falcons can probably out-DPS a Widow, too.
The Widow should get the ECM Burst range bonus. That's the only change I can think of that would make it worthwhile to fit anything but a cloak and a bridge to a Widow (not counting epeen value of having Widow on KM, which is of course, priceless for some and a waste of time for others).
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Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
199
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Posted - 2012.01.18 01:25:00 -
[132] - Quote
Black ops dont need buffing. They fille a niche playstyle and if that doesnt appeal to you, dont fly it |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
205
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 05:09:00 -
[133] - Quote
Jack Sparroxx wrote:Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:March rabbit wrote:SMT008 wrote:You never flew a Black ops, right ? .....it cost a sh*t ton + recquires quite a lot of skills. .... the same was spoken many times about supercarriers.... they got nerfed.... would not hope this pray will help to blackops...... black ops are not solo pwn ships, supers currently are... black ops are horrible broken. Unfortualy we always have forum trolls saying all black op are so awesome as the redeemer, witch might be the only correct functioning one (not including jump stuffs) This man speaks the truth. Though I did swap my redeemer out for a shield tanked panther. Can pretty much out run anything but the usual angel/minie nano stuff. I think most of the people saying B-ops are OP, are those that gets greifed by them, aka people that want afk cloaking and the like nerfed so they can rat/mine in peace in null sec. With other words the usual turds that run away at the first sign of trouble.
Seconded, except that that's not griefing, that's 100% legitimate game-play. Not that griefing these nullsec carebear-turds is a bad thing, either
I are kyute kitten!
I are in ur mishun!
Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz!
(CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
Gabriel Karade
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
12
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Posted - 2012.01.18 21:16:00 -
[134] - Quote
Reduce build cost by 1/3 , tweak jump range upwards.
Job done.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
32
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Posted - 2012.01.19 17:55:00 -
[135] - Quote
Came in expecting a heated / flaming BO debate...left after it became a Burn Eden knob polishing fest. |
Valea Silpha
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
23
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Posted - 2012.01.20 03:14:00 -
[136] - Quote
Cyzlaki wrote:Black ops dont need buffing. They fille a niche playstyle and if that doesnt appeal to you, dont fly it
I know that you guys really do the black ops thing effectively and with dedication, cuz I've seen y'all do it, but even so you have to admit that black ops have problems. If nothing else they need way better range and fuel usage, or at the very least it would be nice.
And given just how common titans are nowerdays and how much better the regular bridge is... It's just painful to deal with the restrictions on black ops portals. It takes a lot of dedication to use black ops bridges effectively, and even if you do use it effectively, most of the time you would have been better off using a conventional gang. Everything you portal is so fragile that even with huge amounts of ewar, there's a fair chance of losing a few ships unless you are pouncing onto solo guys. And even if you ARE jumping on single people, needing a tackler and a cyno on top of him ups the effort needed by quite a lot.
Everything about black ops ships just needs so much effort to make them work, and the results are seldom spectacular. The only genuinely effective uses for black ops is gate-crashing a fleet fight in a cyno-jammed system, and tbh any other way of getting bombers in is just as effective. |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies
THE UNTHINKABLES
37
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Posted - 2012.01.20 07:20:00 -
[137] - Quote
black ops are sexy. mini titans jumping fleets. i just want my mini doomsday ccp! |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
198
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Posted - 2012.01.20 19:58:00 -
[138] - Quote
black ops are so cloaky that ,ccp cant find their stats in the build to fix them :O |
Time Hunt
S0utherN Comfort
Controlled Chaos
1
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Posted - 2012.02.11 00:31:00 -
[139] - Quote
as i've said, i'm just gonna keep bumping this until something happens...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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2Quad
Buzzkill.
1
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Posted - 2012.02.11 17:14:00 -
[140] - Quote
I wouldn't mind hearing from ccp on this either, at least just a bit of communication on the subject. |
Djakku
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
50
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Posted - 2012.02.11 23:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
I would love to see Black Ops ships used more, perhaps a change in mechanics is needed instead of a straight forward buff, there needs to be a reason to use Black Ops instead of the usual bait drake with cyno and a titan-bridge =P |
Saulc Neslo
0utbreak
Outbreak.
3
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Posted - 2012.02.12 10:55:00 -
[142] - Quote
Djakku wrote:I would love to see Black Ops ships used more, perhaps a change in mechanics is needed instead of a straight forward buff, there needs to be a reason to use Black Ops instead of the usual bait drake with cyno and a titan-bridge =P
What you mean? Getting hotdropped is the funniest part of eve isn't it?
PS Sorry for bumping this ******** thread.
Edit: woops sry, what I meant was mentally challenged. |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
57
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 11:17:00 -
[143] - Quote
I'm also of the opinion a simple jump range buff would do the trick, maybe coupled with a reduction in fuel use. Further problems I think are limited to the Sin, who just feels awkward.
CAUTION
SNIGGS |
Saulc Neslo
0utbreak
Outbreak.
3
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Posted - 2012.02.12 11:41:00 -
[144] - Quote
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:I'm also of the opinion a simple jump range buff would do the trick, maybe coupled with a reduction in fuel use.
Im not saying this change would be bad, just remember they can still use gates, and as part there of is pretty flexible in regards to jump range.
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
57
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Posted - 2012.02.12 12:04:00 -
[145] - Quote
Saulc Neslo wrote:Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:I'm also of the opinion a simple jump range buff would do the trick, maybe coupled with a reduction in fuel use. Im not saying this change would be bad, just remember they can still use gates, and as part there of is pretty flexible in regards to jump range.
I agree with you entirely, it just happened to me a few times too many that the one jump I couldn't make happened to be at that one gate that was scouted.
But yeah any sort of buff to their combat capabilities would be a huge mistake. With the exception of the Sin I do think that Black Ops are in good position right now and fixes to them would mostly be aimed at making their use a little more convenient.
That said if they do decide to go over the top and give my Panther another hardpoint, more damage, more tank and a covertops cloak I'm not going to be one to complain, heh.
CAUTION
SNIGGS |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
135
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 12:43:00 -
[146] - Quote
Teir two black ops ships please, that all fire citadel torps and cant fit a portal but can fit a covops cloak :) |
Soldarius
United Highsec Front
The 99 Percent
150
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 10:24:00 -
[147] - Quote
On the Widow, I dislike that I have to choose only 2 of portal, cloak, and cyno, or sacrifice a launcher. Certainly not at the top of my list of changes to blops. But t'would be nice to get that 8th high slot.
I also have to say that when I first starting using it, I was shocked at how much fuel it cost to portal ships around. Bombers and such aren't too bad. But recons... good Lord! Do they really have to cost 10x the fuel of a frigate? I know it's tied to mass. But lord almighty. That's steep.
A fuel usage reduction coupled with better range would be a welcome change. I find it difficult to justify training JDC 5 when moving a few bombers and recons just a couple AU burns all my fuel.
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Wacktopia
Noir.
170
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 15:18:00 -
[148] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:I also have to say that when I first starting using it, I was shocked at how much fuel it cost to portal ships around. Bombers and such aren't too bad. But recons... good Lord! Do they really have to cost 10x the fuel of a frigate? I know it's tied to mass. But lord almighty. That's steep.
Were they running MWD / AB to burn into range? That can send the mass (and fuel cost) through the roof, even on a few SBs.
Vote Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67574
Get War Decs, Sov, Low Sec that works.-á |
Wacktopia
Noir.
170
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 15:28:00 -
[149] - Quote
I don't think a massive amount needs to be changed about BO but there are some fairly simple changes that would not rock the boat too much...
General Problems....
- Need to haul around a blockade runner in almost all cases
- Tank very weak even in comparison to T1 version
- Fuel use compared to storage is very high
- Range is somewhat limiting and makes tactical manoeuvres somewhat laborious.
Ideas....
- Give BO T2 resists profile
- Increase jump range a little. Perhaps 10% per BO level.
- Reduce fuel costs a little. Perhaps 5-10% per BO level.
- Dedicated fuel bay of similar size to cargohold.
I do not like or support the idea of a cov-ops cloak for BO.
In addition it would be interesting to see Titans nerfed such that you could only bridge outside of a POS shield. Not my idea but I have to admit I do like it for the Titan-BBQ factor.
Vote Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67574
Get War Decs, Sov, Low Sec that works.-á |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
62
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Posted - 2012.02.13 21:55:00 -
[150] - Quote
I have some pretty good extensive use of using Black Ops to bridge a Recon assisted Bomber gang onto stuff, as well as bridging a bunch of bombers onto a Titan to board HICs, as written up here.
Currently, Black Ops bridging stuff into fight is pretty much a weaker version of a Titan bridge, except you can do it into cyno jammed systems and in theory, "roam" with a series of jumps. In reality, as the link above shows, Black Ops bridges guzzle through too much fuel to make this viable, even with a Blockade Runner running along. In order to remedy this, I propose the following changes:
Jumping is no longer an instantaneous (or near enough) action - it takes time for the ship to bridge through. Rough proposed numbers:
Black Ops BS - 2 light years per second (includes Black Ops bridge)
Carrier - 0.5 light years per second
Dreadnaughts - 0.5 light years per second
Supercarriers - 0.25 light years per second
Titans - 0.2 light years per second (including Titan bridges)
At the same time, the fuel bay gets buffed..
Black Ops Fuel Bay goes from 1000m3 to 4000m3
Also the base Black Ops jump range goes from 2.5ly to 3.25ly. The range doesn't massively go up, but it helps a ton with inter-region logistics and for god awful regions where all the systems are far apart (Amarr space generally) |
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