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SO where is the black ops buff?

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ovenproofjet The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated 45	Posted - 2012.02.14 13:33:00 - [151] - Quote Suleiman Shouaa wrote: Also the base Black Ops jump range goes from 2.5ly to 3.25ly. The range doesn't massively go up, but it helps a ton with inter-region logistics and for god awful regions where all the systems are far apart (Amarr space generally) Correction - Base range is currently 2ly (4ly @JDC4, 4.5 ly @JDC5). Increasing the base range to 2.5ly (5ly @JDC4, 5.625 @JDC5) would more than suffice for the black ops. However as previously stated, the fuel useage then becomes a huge problem. My corp/alliance make EXTENSIVE use of black ops on a REGULAR basis. To run a hotdrop campaign for more than one evening we need upwards of 25 GSCs anchored in space to supply us with enough fuel to drop approx 10-15 bombers and support recons (and return them to the base system). A covert hauler just isn't big enough!!! So, the only really viable option is to REDUCE THE FUEL USEAGE, increasing the fuel bay really is a moot point. As for the cold, hard figures of the matter, that would require some input from CCP and players to get it right. As for using the black ops beyond a glorifed mobile jump bridge, namely in combat, they need some serious looking at. It's an approx 500mil (not sure of Jita price atm) hull that has a worse tank than I can get out of the T1 equivelant!!! There are ways to make combat black ops, but they revolve around expensive fits and ONLY the Panther and Redeemer, the Widow and Sin are a total waste of space... In summary, black ops are workable at the moment, however they could be much better with some relatively basic changes. I would however advocate the fact that any changes would need to be extensively tested in co-operation with player groups who use them regularly.
Red Teufel Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES 38	Posted - 2012.02.14 14:25:00 - [152] - Quote If the bo ship can't warp cloaked. give it a mini doomsday. hot drop and doomsday someone then leave would be super!
Hatsumi Kobayashi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 71	Posted - 2012.02.14 20:44:00 - [153] - Quote Red Teufel wrote: If the bo ship can't warp cloaked. give it a mini doomsday. hot drop and doomsday someone then leave would be super! i couldn't find the dislike button so I'm posting to tell you you're dumb hth CAUTION SNIGGS
Red Teufel Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES 38	Posted - 2012.02.14 23:54:00 - [154] - Quote Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote: Red Teufel wrote: If the bo ship can't warp cloaked. give it a mini doomsday. hot drop and doomsday someone then leave would be super! i couldn't find the dislike button so I'm posting to tell you you're dumb hth it wouldn't be a titan doomsday. come-on you can't be that simple... could you? SB has the bomb why can't BO ships have a doomsday? :D
Mechael Team Pizza Viro Mors Non Est 34	Posted - 2012.02.15 11:45:00 - [155] - Quote I don't understand the fuel problem. You can bridge a blockade runner around with you, and that should give you plenty of fuel. Those things can go through the bridges for a reason. I don't understand the need for more tank. If your target manages to put out enough damage to hurt you before you kill it, you really need to fire your covert cyno scout. I don't understand the need for EWarin the black ops boat itself. You're bringing a couple force recon boats with you, right? Increased jump range seems reasonable, so long as it's not over done. If you find yourself needing to travel farther than 20ly just to reach your target, you probably need to leave your current alliance in favor of one with more enemies. Not that there are many out there to chose from, sadly. However, isn't getting around regional chokepoints a huge part of what the ship is supposed to do? Surely it should be able to bridge from one system to the next one over at the very least? Summary: the ship does what it's supposed to do well enough, but could possibly benefit from a reasonably increased bridge range. I'd rather die in battle against a man who will lie to me, than for a man who will lie to me.
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords 148	Posted - 2012.02.15 12:08:00 - [156] - Quote Well first off they just need to come out and say what the ship is for. Right now you have four ships, with horrible jump range, a bridge that only works on things that can warp cloak(and have less need for a bridge), 3 of them tank worse than there T1 version well using a portal generator, and 3 of them DPS? and one is Ewar. Not that Cov op jump portals arnt cool, I just wish I could put them on a different ship with a jump drive, and that's sad. If there just for BLOP portals then they need to be better at it, if their ever sposta be on field they need a presence of some type. As is I have a 900 mill scorp that some times sends bombers a few jumps to save time and look cool I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do.
Rel'k Bloodlor Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords 148	Posted - 2012.02.15 12:10:00 - [157] - Quote Red Teufel wrote: Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote: Red Teufel wrote: If the bo ship can't warp cloaked. give it a mini doomsday. hot drop and doomsday someone then leave would be super! i couldn't find the dislike button so I'm posting to tell you you're dumb hth it wouldn't be a titan doomsday. come-on you can't be that simple... could you? SB has the bomb why can't BO ships have a doomsday? :D cuz a BLOP that launched stealth fighter bombers would be coolest :p I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do.
Michael Harari The Hatchery Team Liquid 48	Posted - 2012.02.15 15:12:00 - [158] - Quote Allow black ops battle ships to point supercaps.
ovenproofjet The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated 45	Posted - 2012.02.15 15:41:00 - [159] - Quote I failed posted my reply....I shall fix with a proper reply later...
VIad AIucard State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.02.17 15:09:00 - [160] - Quote they need... jump range buff lock range buff scan res buff t2 resists kkthxbye
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus S I L E N T. 7	Posted - 2012.02.17 15:45:00 - [161] - Quote Acac Sunflyier wrote: Frankly, it shouldn't be a black ops buff. It should be a black ops redo. I mean yeah the jump bridge is useful. But that's all it does. The widow has the most useful of bonuses. But, it is the only one that does. Shouldn't have been the domi that became the black ops ship. Because bringing 1000+ dps and heavy neuts in a format that can actually move and hit small stuff is useless. And the Widow is pretty useless, jamming is better done by the Falcon you just portalled, so bring a Redeemer or Panther and do actual damage.
boobomatic Children of Balakrishna 2	Posted - 2012.02.18 17:18:00 - [162] - Quote BUMP
Onlyasandwich NewsRadio 5	Posted - 2012.02.18 18:17:00 - [163] - Quote Red Teufel wrote: If the bo ship can't warp cloaked. give it a mini doomsday. hot drop and doomsday someone then leave would be super! It would be interesting to see some sort of unique direct damage device on black ops. Perhaps an omni-damage weapon that hits hard enough to give you a reliable advantage at the beginning of a fight, but has a fairly long cooldown. Nowhere near the destructive capability of a doomsday weapon, but a consistent equalizer that these fragile hulls can use to leverage the element of surprise.
Vicky Somers Rusty Anchor 10	Posted - 2012.02.18 18:38:00 - [164] - Quote http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_cynosural_fields_in_high_security_space_(CSM) This this this this this this this this...
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 814	Posted - 2012.02.19 11:21:00 - [165] - Quote Hemmo Paskiainen wrote: March rabbit wrote: SMT008 wrote: You never flew a Black ops, right ? .....it cost a sht ton + recquires quite a lot of skills. .... the same was spoken many times about supercarriers.... they got nerfed.... would not hope this pray will help to blackops...... black ops are not solo pwn ships, supers currently are... black ops are horrible broken. Unfortualy we always have forum trolls saying all black op are so awesome as the redeemer, witch might be the only correct functioning one (not including jump stuffs) They're not horribly broken: Redeemer, crapton of ehp excellent dps and can still fit cloak/remote rep + random* Panther, excellent too? Widow, uses cruise missiles so if you don't fit rigor on it you fail to dps whatever below bs size, awesome tank Sin: the ugliest, the worthless, the lolest loss mail of them all If there's any balance that must be done or buff is to Sin because actually is a Sin training for that crap.
Aaron Greil None Of You Can Compare 1	Posted - 2012.02.22 06:26:00 - [166] - Quote I don't want to let this thread die until I hear from a DEV. Seriously, why is CCP so silent on this. Say something. Say anything. Having wasted the 60 bucks in training time to fly the damn things, you would think we could at least get some feedback. I was thinking of another idea that might work. Make them oddly maneuverable and fast. Keep everything the same, except reduce fuel consumption, but make them fast and maneuverable (for a battleship) similar to the Mach. That would make them a blast to fly, and desirable. Making them cheaper would also be helpful. Just some thoughts. Also, heavy drones/sentries plus stealth is really really dumb. Comment CCP, even if its to tell us you aren't planning to buff them, being silent is a huge mistake. Thought you would have learned your lesson by now.
Andrea Roche State War Academy Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.02.23 00:56:00 - [167] - Quote lol you can forget about it. The countless of reasons already named by me and a few others more than show that black ops are OP already and its the same reason why none of th DEV will post in this thread or ever will touch on black ops. There are corporations in eve that have a proven track record for YEARS using black ops with incredible statistic or kill ratio using them!. To come here and talk all the nonsence that black ops need a buff, its really a bad joke cos those statistics blow a hole in all your arguments.
Aaron Greil None Of You Can Compare 1	Posted - 2012.02.23 01:39:00 - [168] - Quote Andrea Roche wrote: lol you can forget about it. The countless of reasons already named by me and a few others more than show that black ops are OP already and its the same reason why none of th DEV will post in this thread or ever will touch on black ops. There are corporations in eve that have a proven track record for YEARS using black ops with incredible statistic or kill ratio using them!. To come here and talk all the nonsence that black ops need a buff, its really a bad joke cos those statistics blow a hole in all your arguments. You have only proven that you are a troll, really, so I'm not feeding you. If they were as OP as seemingly only you believes, then CCP can comment as such and at least tell us they won't be buffed. Even if you are right, CCP could be decent enough to say so. You, however, do not speak for CCP, so don't talk like it. Besides, your constant whining only continues to bump the thread, so please, by all means, continue.
Andrea Roche State War Academy Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.02.23 11:02:00 - [169] - Quote Aaron Greil wrote: Andrea Roche wrote: lol you can forget about it. The countless of reasons already named by me and a few others more than show that black ops are OP already and its the same reason why none of th DEV will post in this thread or ever will touch on black ops. There are corporations in eve that have a proven track record for YEARS using black ops with incredible statistic or kill ratio using them!. To come here and talk all the nonsence that black ops need a buff, its really a bad joke cos those statistics blow a hole in all your arguments. You have only proven that you are a troll, really, so I'm not feeding you. If they were as OP as seemingly only you believes, then CCP can comment as such and at least tell us they won't be buffed. Even if you are right, CCP could be decent enough to say so. You, however, do not speak for CCP, so don't talk like it. Besides, your constant whining only continues to bump the thread, so please, by all means, continue. there is no trolling in facts. Search statistics of kill ratio with black ops under Burn Eden and the statistics dont lie. Its all there. They are undeniebly very good. The ability to jump in on a ship and killing it and jumping away within seconds is really strong already. If they were already in dire need of buff, i think we would have seen a buff for it along with everything else that already has been buffed. Guess why not ?
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League 91	Posted - 2012.02.23 14:15:00 - [170] - Quote I would love to see some changes for sure... One thing is the Black OPS battleships themself and another is the current black ops cyno mechanics. - The battleships themself doesn't see much action apart from very large hotdrops. - Hotdrops are a little bit too easy to get away with and rarely promotes a fight. The black ops battleship are unattractive to most people because: - They cost a fortune - They are fragile - They cannot be fully utilized in hi-sec Black OPS hotdropping is a bit too easy because: - Agressor usually has full control of wether to engage or not - If things go wrong every ship can cloak up I would recommend lowering build cost of black ops battleships to 2/3 of the current prices. I would recommend increasing the tank on black ops battleships but make them slower. I would recommend having all races having a dps/tank theme and leave Ewar for recons. I would recommend putting a limit on the number of ships 1 black ops battleship can bridge pr time. I would recommend a small delay on ships being cynoed in giving targets a chance to react. I would recommend a small delay on targeting when making a hotdrop. Pinky
Andrea Roche State War Academy Caldari State 38	Posted - 2012.02.23 14:27:00 - [171] - Quote Pinky Denmark wrote: I would love to see some changes for sure... One thing is the Black OPS battleships themself and another is the current black ops cyno mechanics. - The battleships themself doesn't see much action apart from very large hotdrops. - Hotdrops are a little bit too easy to get away with and rarely promotes a fight. The black ops battleship are unattractive to most people because: - They cost a fortune - They are fragile - They cannot be fully utilized in hi-sec Black OPS hotdropping is a bit too easy because: - Agressor usually has full control of wether to engage or not - If things go wrong every ship can cloak up I would recommend lowering build cost of black ops battleships to 2/3 of the current prices. I would recommend increasing the tank on black ops battleships but make them slower. I would recommend having all races having a dps/tank theme and leave Ewar for recons. I would recommend putting a limit on the number of ships 1 black ops battleship can bridge pr time. I would recommend a small delay on ships being cynoed in giving targets a chance to react. I would recommend a small delay on targeting when making a hotdrop. Pinky the major problem is that if you nerf their ability to hot drop they way they can then they are not worth anything BUT if you buff them then they are wayyyyy too strong. They can tank very well with supporting black ops as they are. Take 6/8+ black ops with remote armor reps drones with some internal repers too, you really need alot of ships to take them out.
Don Beretta Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.02.24 12:21:00 - [172] - Quote Aaron Greil wrote: I don't want to let this thread die until I hear from a DEV. Me neither.
Aaron Greil None Of You Can Compare 2	Posted - 2012.02.24 18:21:00 - [173] - Quote bump
GankuVerymuch Republic University Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.02.26 00:30:00 - [174] - Quote I do remember this being talked about and do believe it needs to be done. The BLOPS gang needs to be stronger as it stands today. T2 resists to start with, seeing as it is a T2 ship. I also believe it needs a range bonus to the jumpdrive. I would welcome any buff that would allow small gang tactics to become more used in eve. This blob with a bigger blob strategy is maddness and leads to fights being a huge node crashing cluster ****. Also not all players want to be sov alliance slaves. Sign me up for dropping behind enemy lines with a BLOPS fleet and shoving it right up a Supercarrier or Titans tailpipe. Then we could have some tactic against these ridiculous Super Cap fleets raping their way across EVE with no consequences. But that just might be ME
Stoney Balboa Delsu Foundation 1	Posted - 2012.02.27 18:01:00 - [175] - Quote GankuVerymuch wrote: I would welcome any buff that would allow small gang tactics to become more used in eve. This blob with a bigger blob strategy is maddness and leads to fights being a huge node crashing cluster **. Also not all players want to be sov alliance slaves. Sign me up for dropping behind enemy lines with a BLOPS fleet and shoving it right up a Supercarrier or Titans tailpipe. Then we could have some tactic against these ridiculous Super Cap fleets raping their way across EVE with no consequences. But that just might be ME Couldn't agree more bro! Boosting BLOP jump range by a good deal** would make its gang more viable and fun. Small gangs need to move faster than bigass fleets! Hell, it takes half a year to skill for this ship, this should be rewarded! Also t2 resists are overdue... it also needs some targeting range/scan res buff.
Saulc Neslo 0utbreak Outbreak. 3	Posted - 2012.02.28 19:13:00 - [176] - Quote Don Beretta wrote: Aaron Greil wrote: I don't want to let this thread die until I hear from a DEV. Me neither. Maybe if you tried the correct forum section, and or came up with some valid arguments?
Morrigu Storm Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard 1	Posted - 2012.02.28 23:25:00 - [177] - Quote The best thing that could be done for BO's would be the removal of local or at least a delayed local. (might clear a few other problems up as well) The Sin needs a Hybrid bonus so it can hit and run as effectively as the other variants. Give the drone bonus to the Kronos instead since Domis are far more popular for PVE There's a reason that the Sin and Kronos are the least used of the advanced BS's.
Trinkets friend Obstergo NEM3SIS. 161	Posted - 2012.02.29 05:49:00 - [178] - Quote The biggest issue with Black Ops is the fact you need two toons in a gang just to move anything. Then, because you are generally porting SB's and the odd recon, the list of targets you can port onto shrinks down until it is described as "a ratting domi". This requires you to socially engineer and have a gang numbering in the low double-figures. Now your fuel use per portal goes up, requiring you to pack a cloaky hauler to transport fuel...then you sit around and wait for a target, and after 2-3 hours usually nothing happens. Repeat five times and everyone goes back to nanocanes and drakes. This does, indeed, result in Black Ops being used for ganks and assymmetric fights - but so what? The terror factor for carebears is huge if there's a known BLOPs corp/gang in an area and they have known/suspected AFK cloaker alts deployed in systems. You never know if or when there will be a blob of bombers dumped on you at zero. This does not address the ships' capabilities, which are fairly weak. It is a T2 battleship with, generally, a battlecruiser's capability in terms of EHP and DPS. This could use a tweak, and I disagree that giving them near-BS levels of both will result in everyone FOTM'ing the bejeezus out of the ship class and rolling around in 100 man BLOPs BS gangs - mainly because you need the social engineering to organise, and the cyno ship is usually the weakest link. The jump range is an issue, as is fuel, but not as big of an issue as having supremely expensive ships with weaksauce capabilities, resulting in less hotdrops and more porting. Plus a hell of a lot of waiting. In the very least the Sin needs another 4000 to 6000 powergrid so it can fit some rails or blasters, and do actual DPS. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus S I L E N T. 8	Posted - 2012.02.29 08:57:00 - [179] - Quote Morrigu Storm wrote: The best thing that could be done for BO's would be the removal of local or at least a delayed local. (might clear a few other problems up as well) You know that 99% of people using blackops are in ANOTHER local right before they start shooting right? I guess you want to hide the covert cyno better, but frankly that's not a huge issue. Very often you actually want the cyno to be seen (and attacked). Trinkets friend wrote: This does not address the ships' capabilities, which are fairly weak. It is a T2 battleship with, generally, a battlecruiser's capability in terms of EHP and DPS. They have much more dps and range than BCs, unless you mean tier3 BCs, but those have cruiser EHP.
Morrigu Storm Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard 1	Posted - 2012.02.29 16:25:00 - [180] - Quote Lubomir Penev wrote: [quote=Morrigu Storm]The best thing that could be done for BO's would be the removal of local or at least a delayed local. (might clear a few other problems up as well) You know that 99% of people using blackops are in ANOTHER local right before they start shooting right? I guess you want to hide the covert cyno better, but frankly that's not a huge issue. Very often you actually want the cyno to be seen (and attacked). Yeah your right why bother using covert cynos at all!

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