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oolk	Posted - 2006.06.27 08:05:00 - [1] Ok,last week I was ganked in Jita making an isogen delivery; Lost about 250mil isk.+ship...was ganked by obvious alts. Tonight,I took delivery of a brand new Hulk in Oursulaert; Ganked again,lost 474mil isk. + ship...this time,it was by a Raven! Setup? I`d say so. Advice,have it (anything worthy) picked up by a freighter. Worth the pay out. Dont come around telling me
oolk	Posted - 2006.06.27 08:07:00 - [2] This has to stop right away CCP...have those attacking innocents in high sec immediately loose 5.5 sec status points (or more) so they cant show their faces in high sec for a few days. Sorry for the 2 parts...hit the wrong button.
Brisi	Posted - 2006.06.27 08:10:00 - [3] Originally by: oolk This has to stop right away CCP...have those attacking innocents in high sec immediately loose 5.5 sec status points (or more) so they cant show their faces in high sec for a few days. Sorry for the 2 parts...hit the wrong button. Sorry, but you're not 100% safe anywhere. And you even knew that you could be ganked if you had high value cargo in your hold, so there's really no excuse for you. There are countless ways to insure yourself against getting killed in high sec, if you don't use either of them, expect to die.
Max Teranous	Posted - 2006.06.27 08:13:00 - [4] You put a 500mil ship into one that cost 500k. Do the math. Why didn't you just fly the hulk? The resists on that baby means you pretty much can't get empire ganked, and it has 8000m3 cargo bay !!! Max
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.27 09:01:00 - [5] Originally by: Max Teranous You put a 500mil ship into one that cost 500k. Do the math. Why didn't you just fly the hulk? The resists on that baby means you pretty much can't get empire ganked, and it has 8000m3 cargo bay !!! Reseller? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Niivvy	Posted - 2006.06.27 09:14:00 - [6] doh ganked again reasons: 1 dumb 2 dumb 3 u guesses it dumb again the eve guide states u are "NOT 100% SAFE UNLESS DOCKED" this means u MAY be attached in empire. how to avoid 1 get a freighter 2 get a t2 hauller 3 open ure eyes ( ooh i wonder what that cargo ship is doing hanging about scanning people or stiitng not moving at a gate, i wonder has he a big bad raven friend at the other side) 4 dont put 200 mill cargos in paper thin ships its like walking down oxford streetwith a bag of gold with a big phat dollar sigh on it. 5 take a corp mate in a bs with u to pop anyone who goes near ure carrgo. sorry mate u got ganked 2 TIMES ffs i know animals that learn faster it is ure fault.think of it as getting mugged mugging aint allowed in rl but do u wald down dark alleys at night? and as for people getting the loot and concord not getting revenge for u. yhink of that the muggers m8 who gets away hehe please dont make it 3
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.06.27 09:15:00 - [7] Wow. And I wondered how gankers still made money after its been widely publicized how to avoid them. People are still being fools --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.27 09:26:00 - [8] Dark has even dedicated todays sig to it.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.06.27 09:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Deja Thoris Dark has even dedicated todays sig to it. They switch randomely every time you reload the page, you know I assume you mean this sig though? --Proud member of the [23]-- -WTB Platinum Technite, WTS Nanotransistors, Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II-
Flaming sambuka	Posted - 2006.06.27 09:43:00 - [10] RIIIGHT, yousay yourstuff was picked up by a freighter, a freighter cant pick up stuff unless docked, correct me if im wrong. how on earth did you lose a hulk, i find that hard to believe. frankly i think ur bs'ing and just here to whine about something.

Max Teranous	Posted - 2006.06.27 09:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Max Teranous You put a 500mil ship into one that cost 500k. Do the math. Why didn't you just fly the hulk? The resists on that baby means you pretty much can't get empire ganked, and it has 8000m3 cargo bay !!! Reseller? Unlikely, resellers tend to have brains. Max
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Flaming sambuka RIIIGHT, yousay yourstuff was picked up by a freighter, a freighter cant pick up stuff unless docked, correct me if im wrong. how on earth did you lose a hulk, i find that hard to believe. frankly i think ur bs'ing and just here to whine about something. Kinda easy to lose Hulks actually.. a decent hauler can have three of those in thier cargo, repackaged ofc.. Then again, i'm sure that the kind of decent hauler who packs 3 hulks in his cargo is a dying race.. If they have not gone extinct already. :) Furthermore.. does not matter how much effort people put in advertising high sec gate ganking, those falling victim to it do so because they are ignorant or lazy.. No ammount of outside help can cure that. The only thing these threads are good for is making the profession even more widely known, thus resulting in more people doing it.. A good few weeks ago i have seen maybe one group doing it on a given day.. Yesterday there were like three teams simultaniously... things are going crazy out there.. :) One thing is certain.. - consider this an advice from someone who is living from this - hauling anything in excess of 200m value around jita is not safe for the time being.. Not unless you are in a tanked T2 hauler or a ship tougher than that. Either make sure you are past the gate in under 5 seconds (be it insta or mwd) or make sure that you can survive a gank fitted BS for 30+ seconds. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:29:00 - [13] I think it's very stupid on CCP's part that players cannot conduct business without taking extraordinary steps in a 1.0 system... It doesn't make any ******* sense... It's pure griefing and CCP knows it... Shooting fish in a barrel scenario is not a good game mechanic... Not for any MMO... The DEV's are showing their griefer roots from other games that they played it seems... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Bhaal I think it's very stupid on CCP's part that players cannot conduct business without taking extraordinary steps in a 1.0 system... It doesn't make any ***** sense... It's pure griefing and CCP knows it... Shooting fish in a barrel scenario is not a good game mechanic... Not for any MMO... The DEV's are showing their griefer roots from other games that they played it seems... I think one day it will create an incentive for people to move out into less populated - seemingly more risky - space, where in reality players are safer.. Safer as they go there prepared for danger, and do not have a false sense of non-existing safety. My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe.**
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:36:00 - [15] Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal I think it's very stupid on CCP's part that players cannot conduct business without taking extraordinary steps in a 1.0 system... It doesn't make any ******* sense... The DEV's are showing their griefer roots from other games that they played it seems... It's pure griefing and CCP knows it... Shooting fish in a barrel scenario is not a good game mechanic... Not for any MMO... I think one day it will create an incentive for people to move out into less populated - seemingly more risky - space, where in reality players are safer.. Safer as they go there prepared for danger, and do not have a false sense of non-existing safety. Nope, not as long as the trade hubs remain in high sec... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Dark Shikari Wow. And I wondered how gankers still made money after its been widely publicized how to avoid them. People are still being fools qft
csebal	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal I think it's very stupid on CCP's part that players cannot conduct business without taking extraordinary steps in a 1.0 system... It doesn't make any ***** sense... The DEV's are showing their griefer roots from other games that they played it seems... It's pure griefing and CCP knows it... Shooting fish in a barrel scenario is not a good game mechanic... Not for any MMO... I think one day it will create an incentive for people to move out into less populated - seemingly more risky - space, where in reality players are safer.. Safer as they go there prepared for danger, and do not have a false sense of non-existing safety. Nope, not as long as the trade hubs remain in high sec... Well then, we already have something to solve. What about making sales tax increase towards high sec systems, creating an incentinve for traders to go into lower sec systems when they want to sell their stuff. That and removing highways would help creating local markets closer to 0.0 regions. Or they would mess up EVE.. anyway.. these changes would stirr the calm water at least:) My post does not represent the general or official opinion of anyone else besides me. No matter what YOU believe.**
R3dSh1ft	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:44:00 - [18] I can see both sides of the argument. Ultimately after the eleventieth post about it, its probably time to boost concord again. Unless its not true that you need to tank for 30s? Cos they can target jam but that doesnt stop drones until the pilot's dead i guess... Maybe have concord target jam drones now too? Certainly a 1.0 system shouldn't be quite so dangerous with all this moaning every night? ______________________________________
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:48:00 - [19] Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal I think it's very stupid on CCP's part that players cannot conduct business without taking extraordinary steps in a 1.0 system... It doesn't make any ***** sense... The DEV's are showing their griefer roots from other games that they played it seems... It's pure griefing and CCP knows it... Shooting fish in a barrel scenario is not a good game mechanic... Not for any MMO... I think one day it will create an incentive for people to move out into less populated - seemingly more risky - space, where in reality players are safer.. Safer as they go there prepared for danger, and do not have a false sense of non-existing safety. Nope, not as long as the trade hubs remain in high sec... Well then, we already have something to solve. What about making sales tax increase towards high sec systems, creating an incentinve for traders to go into lower sec systems when they want to sell their stuff. That and removing highways would help creating local markets closer to 0.0 regions. Or they would mess up EVE.. anyway.. these changes would stirr the calm water at least:) Highways were already taken away once. When will you people realize that most MMO players are risk-averse? Why is this so hard to understand? In any MMO, especially EVE were loss is great, the vast majority will play it safe, not take risks... Some of you are still mired in the mentality of the initial PvP'ers who got upset that there were people who did not want to fight, you need to let that go... High sec ganking = griefing, nothing more. It's not a career, it's a play style, played by *****s... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:52:00 - [20] Edited by: robacz on 27/06/2006 10:54:22 Originally by: oolk Ok,last week I was ganked in Jita making an isogen delivery; Lost about 250mil isk.+ship...was ganked by obvious alts. Tonight,I took delivery of a brand new Hulk in Oursulaert; Ganked again,lost 474mil isk. + ship...this time,it was by a Raven! Setup? I`d say so. Advice,have it (anything worthy) picked up by a freighter. Worth the pay out. Dont come around telling me What ship you used to haul it? You need to use at least Transport ships to move so valuable cargo. It is not problem that some suicide ganker killed you, even in front of police station some crazy guy can take a gun and kill you, problem is that CONCORD lets ganker's friend steal your cargo, which is wrong (imagine police letting murderer's friends stealing victims money etc. in front of them). But until this gets fixed, you need to increase your security. Use ships with heavy armor for moving anything worth of 100M+ or use instas in hub areas. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders

Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:53:00 - [21] Ok, let's forget for a moment that there are some steps you can take to avoid being ganked in empire. Now let's look at a system which encourages people to create trial accounts with 3 'ready-to-fly' rocket kestrel pilots on them which you can recycle any time their sec status gets too low. There is no skill involved in high sec ganking. There is no risk. It completely circumvents the intended game mechanics. There's now dozens of people hanging around gates in empire, scanning ships hoping to find something valuable so they can throw their raven away and loot. Can you defend against it? No. You form a gang to escort a freighter in lowsec and 0.0. Try escorting something in highsec. You'll get concorded if you help your guy out. Fair enough make it possible to kill someone's ship in Empire and even pod them. But don't make it possible to gain in any way from it. Solution? Looting someone elses can (not in your corp, alliance or gang) gets you concorded. And some disclaimers. I have never been empire ganked. I've been lowsec ganked (which is fine) and I've sure been ganked a bit in 0.0 - and ganked other people in lowsec and in 0.0. Got myself 100mil in RAM and 4 local hull cargo expanders from an Itty V slowboating to a gate in Nalvula, it was a crime not to shoot him. I'm not a carebear that doesn't want to deal with most of the game. I live in 0.0. I just think empire ganking is for crap. And yes I've tried empire ganking against a macro miner. Was it easy? Yes. Was there anything he could do to prevent it? Zip, nothing, nada. And don't bring macro miners and stealing their cans/ganking them in as an excuse. Broken mechanics do not fix broken mechanics.
Ehker Gerete	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal I think it's very stupid on CCP's part that players cannot conduct business without taking extraordinary steps in a 1.0 system... It doesn't make any ***** sense... The DEV's are showing their griefer roots from other games that they played it seems... It's pure griefing and CCP knows it... Shooting fish in a barrel scenario is not a good game mechanic... Not for any MMO... I think one day it will create an incentive for people to move out into less populated - seemingly more risky - space, where in reality players are safer.. Safer as they go there prepared for danger, and do not have a false sense of non-existing safety. Nope, not as long as the trade hubs remain in high sec... Well then, we already have something to solve. What about making sales tax increase towards high sec systems, creating an incentinve for traders to go into lower sec systems when they want to sell their stuff. That and removing highways would help creating local markets closer to 0.0 regions. Or they would mess up EVE.. anyway.. these changes would stirr the calm water at least:) Highways were already taken away once. When will you people realize that most MMO players are risk-averse? Why is this so hard to understand? In any MMO, especially EVE were loss is great, the vast majority will play it safe, not take risks... Some of you are still mired in the mentality of the initial PvP'ers who got upset that there were people who did not want to fight, you need to let that go... High sec ganking = a way of making profit, nothing more. It's not a career, it's a play style, played by *****s... did they change the definition of greiving to "anything that you dont like? greiving is to spend the entire game making it miserable for other players. High sec gankers are doing it for PROFIT. not to make anyone miserable. thats just a side effect. Yes I am an exclamation mark
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:58:00 - [23] Originally by: Stamm Ok, let's forget for a moment that there are some steps you can take to avoid being ganked in empire. Now let's look at a system which encourages people to create trial accounts with 3 'ready-to-fly' rocket kestrel pilots on them which you can recycle any time their sec status gets too low. There is no skill involved in high sec ganking. There is no risk. It completely circumvents the intended game mechanics. thats an exploit. If suspect people of doing it, petition.
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Stamm Solution? Looting someone elses can (not in your corp, alliance or gang) gets you concorded. QFT, however it should apply only on cans from killed ships. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
Yarrmageddon	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:59:00 - [25] Just how retarded do you have to be to fly something worth several 100m in a ship that can be ganked with a couple of trial accounts? ------------------------- This space is for rant.
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:05:00 - [26] Originally by: robacz problem is that CONCORD lets ganker's friend steal your cargo, ganker's friend will be flagged to your entire corp for 15 minutes afaik.
Avon	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:05:00 - [27] Edited by: Avon on 27/06/2006 11:05:58 The OP states clearly that he know he took a risk, and that there was a better option open to him. There is only a problem if there is no way around it. There are LOTS of ways to not get your stuff stolen, thus the system is not broken. The problem is with lazy people wanting the game to do everything for them. Oh, and Bhaal, if MMO players are as risk adversed as you like to make out, why do they repeatedly take this sort of unrequired risk? I think they are effort adversed myself. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Ehker Gerete Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: csebal Originally by: Bhaal I think it's very stupid on CCP's part that players cannot conduct business without taking extraordinary steps in a 1.0 system... It doesn't make any ***** sense... The DEV's are showing their griefer roots from other games that they played it seems... It's pure griefing and CCP knows it... Shooting fish in a barrel scenario is not a good game mechanic... Not for any MMO... I think one day it will create an incentive for people to move out into less populated - seemingly more risky - space, where in reality players are safer.. Safer as they go there prepared for danger, and do not have a false sense of non-existing safety. Nope, not as long as the trade hubs remain in high sec... Well then, we already have something to solve. What about making sales tax increase towards high sec systems, creating an incentinve for traders to go into lower sec systems when they want to sell their stuff. That and removing highways would help creating local markets closer to 0.0 regions. Or they would mess up EVE.. anyway.. these changes would stirr the calm water at least:) Highways were already taken away once. When will you people realize that most MMO players are risk-averse? Why is this so hard to understand? In any MMO, especially EVE were loss is great, the vast majority will play it safe, not take risks... Some of you are still mired in the mentality of the initial PvP'ers who got upset that there were people who did not want to fight, you need to let that go... High sec ganking = a way of making profit, nothing more. It's not a career, it's a play style, played by ***s... did they change the definition of greiving to "anything that you dont like? greiving is to spend the entire game making it miserable for other players. High sec gankers are doing it for PROFIT. not to make anyone miserable. thats just a side effect. It's a griefing tactic, used by those who don't have the skill or desire to pirate in low sec, why should they, CCP gives them a much easier way! If they know going in that they will lose one and only one ship, they can do some math, and then go after a target where there is profit RISK FREE, as nothing else can happen to them... It's simply a foolish game mechanic scenario exploited by *****s who have nothing better to do in this game... It's a weak play style, one that does not deserve any respect, but should be frowned upon... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Ehker Gerete	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:07:00 - [29] Originally by: Stamm Solution? Looting someone elses can (not in your corp, alliance or gang) gets you concorded. That isn't practical. Give the ore theives some love Instead make it that if someone was illegally killed you have a chance of getting flagged to concord and sentries. Going from 90% in 1.0 to 65% in 0.5. That way you're risking not getting the loot. Or something like that. It needs tweaking. Once someone gets flagged once for taking it, anyone who tries to take from it gets flagged. This gives it some risk. Yes I am an exclamation mark
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Ras Blumin Originally by: robacz problem is that CONCORD lets ganker's friend steal your cargo, ganker's friend will be flagged to your entire corp for 15 minutes afaik. That doesnt solve your problem. He will dock withing seconds, you have no chance to react and get the cargo back. Besides, police in highsec area shouldnt let murderer's partner to steal victims's property. Thats understandable in lowsec, not in highsec in front of quazillion of police ships. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders



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