I don't want this to turn into a giant debate. I just want to see to know how everyone feels about this game mechanic. Do not go one about what part of the current mechanic needs to be changed or anything like that. The question is simple:

Do you think the current ECM mechanic is good and if not; would you like to see it replaced with something completely new?

stuff that pretty much amounts to a rebalancing of sensor strenchts across ship classes

It is chance based, and I wish it were subject to diminishing returns (if it is, I'll say I'm wrong now). If 10 guys activate ECM on you, you're essentially permajammed whereas if 10 guys target paint you, you're fine.

Except Target painting is not a primary e-war for any race.

So what about all the bonused Minmatar hulls?

I don't want this to turn into a giant debate. I just want to see to know how everyone feels about this game mechanic. Do not go one about what part of the current mechanic needs to be changed or anything like that. The question is simple:

Do you think the current ECM mechanic is good and if not; would you like to see it replaced with something completely new?

That's a secondary racial E-war for Minmatar.
A secondary E-war is something unknown to Caldari.

Minmatar: Web, TP
Amarr: Neut, TD
Gallente: SD, warp disruptor range
Caldari: ECM

No. There's a reason why highly competitive games have no "stunning" mechanics. It removes a huge part of the player skill/experience influence and instead can make fights depend on the outcome of a random numbers generator.

This game NEEDS a mechanic to neutralize high value targets, but ECM (eve's stunning) is a terrible way to do it. It also scales terribly, a Falcon in a 5v5 can easily keep 3/5 enemy targets permajammed while in large battles ECM is close to useless.

That's a secondary racial E-war for Minmatar.
A secondary E-war is something unknown to Caldari.

Minmatar: Web, TP
Amarr: Neut, TD
Gallente: SD, warp disruptor range
Caldari: ECM

That's a secondary racial E-war for Minmatar.
A secondary E-war is something unknown to Caldari.

Minmatar: Web, TP
Amarr: Neut, TD
Gallente: SD, warp disruptor range
Caldari: ECM

To understand how awful it is consider how it compares to other ewar. No other ewar can completely remove someone from a fight. No other ewar has a permajam. Ecm isn't the iwin button it used to be but it is still a sh!t mechanic.

Its not very balanced for small scale warfare, like less than 5 people per side.

As gang sizes increases however, its just another interesting wrinkle as well as being the only true counter to enemy logistics.

* completely removing the dice rolls.. say if ecm>sensor there is an effect, otherwise not.
* keeping dice rolls but giving the jammer some additinal penatly for failing.

Do you think the current ECM mechanic is good?

Tactic, yes.

Game mechanic, no.

From what I understand.........

What do you mean "From what I understand"? If you do not get it, then your wall of text is irrelevant. Let me guess you are one of those "Fit multi-specs on everything" special snowflakes.

ECM is a good mechanic, and if used properly, and if the user "understands", it can be a good tactic. Plus it is one of those game mechanics that require some actual thought behind it if you wish to be actually effective.

Do you think the current ECM mechanic is good and if not; would you like to see it replaced with something completely new?

If anything should be changed, I would say the cycle time of the ECM modules (faster) and adjust cap/strenght thereafter, I personly think the duration of a single lucky jam is too long :)

Other than that, ECM is awesome, specially when you have plenty on your side

The mechanic is ****** but it's well balanced these days. People criticise it on the solo scale, but the chances are that you're in trouble if any recon shows up, and at least the chances are that the ECM boat won't be tackling you.

As Malcanis said, almost all of the ideas for changing its mechanics are poorly-concealed attempts to nerf ECM into the ground, ignoring the fact that Caldari are supposed to have the most powerful ewar. Any new mechanic must respect this.

Ecm should reduce max locked targets by 1 100% of the time. Eccm should add 1 locked targets 100% of the time. Chance only applies when you are in falloff.

There also needs to be changes with tracking ewar and mods to make them work with missiles as well but this is an ecm thread.

GǪanother idea that has been brought up on occasion is to make jammers work more like an ECM burst: it just makes you lose target lock, and that is it. I think one of the things that earns people's ire the most about ECM is the GǣpermajammedGǥ feeling (and I say feeling here, since the actual occurrence of a proper permajam is exceedingly rare), so removing those 20 seconds of helplessness might drastically reduce the sheer irritation of it all.

The main problem I see with this idea is that it hits larger ship harder than small ones (they take longer to relock, so they might still get effectively permajammed), but on the other hand, they are also inherently harder to jam, so that might even out. Another problem is that it also pushes sensor booster further into compulsory-territory: they are already very useful on their own, and they act as the counter-module to dampsGǪ and with this pulse idea, they'd also be an even more important component in dealing with ECM: they let you lock quickly and get a shot or two off before the jammers have finished cycling and hit again.

On the other hand, it would indirectly give damps a nice buff, since these point-event jams would create a larger need for damps to be applied in hopes of the target not gaining lock before the next jamming cycle hits, and since it would generate more instances where that damping effect comes into play. Sure, they already do that to some effect, but since you currently get those 20s of inoperability for free, moving ECM into pulse form would turn damps into the mechanism that provides that inoperability.

It would also allow for a different kind of variation between jamming mods: instead of altering strength, you could alter cycle time and, for instance, have some jammers operate on very short cycles but at drastically reduced range, which would make them suited for use against fast-locking targets such as interceptors and ewar frigates, which would otherwise be almost unaffected by the presence of ECM.

please explain to me what you mean by actual thought in relation to ecm?

Seriously though, why not just stacking nerf ECM strengths applied to the same target? Simple, in line with other game mechanics, boosts ECCM effectiveness, doesn't hurt the effectiveness of ECM versus fleets while making it less annoying for solo players.

You do understand that ECM does not actaully stack...right?

Hence why I said jam strengths - first jammer applied to a target has full jam strength, chance to jam for it is JamStrength/Target Sensor strength, second is stacking nerfed, chance to jam is Jamstrength*.87/Target Sensor strength (or whatever the normal stacking nerf is), obviously sorted so highest jam strength is applied first, just like every other module. It's completely intuitive and fits in with other game mechanics.

EDIT: End result is that putting more than four jammers on a target doesn't do much, so jams must be spread around to more targets to achieve prior effectiveness.

No seriously, ECM points do not stack. In other words my 14 point ladar, and your 14 point ladar on Shrikes ibis does not add together to make 28. You get it?

Only one jammer works on a target at a time no matter how many multi-spec homos you have gang banging the target. You get it?

Most of your effective fleet doctrines tell you NOT to have everyone jam the same target for the very reason above You jam the targets closest to your name and never the primary. You get it?

No. There's a reason why highly competitive games have no "stunning" mechanics. It removes a huge part of the player skill/experience influence and instead can make fights depend on the outcome of a random numbers generator.

This game NEEDS a mechanic to neutralize high value targets, but ECM (eve's stunning) is a terrible way to do it. It also scales terribly, a Falcon in a 5v5 can easily keep 3/5 enemy targets permajammed while in large battles ECM is close to useless.

No. There's a reason why highly competitive games have no "stunning" mechanics. It removes a huge part of the player skill/experience influence and instead can make fights depend on the outcome of a random numbers generator.

Do you not understand probability?

EDIT: To clarify, the stacking nerf is based on the number of ECM jammers cycling on the target when the ECM is first applied, so each subsequent jammer applied after the first to the same target would suffer this nerf to it's strength. Obviously, if you succeed in jamming them with the first, more aren't needed - but if you don't, then it become progressively harder to get a jam on that target during this cycle by simply applying more jams.

As it is, a ecm pilot applies one jam to a target, see if it hits, then applies more until the jam holds - with this, they'd be more tempted to spread out their jams around multiple targets to maximize jam strength and thus the number of targets jammed.

Then you shouldn't be opposed to implementing it to bring ECM in line with other EWAR, since good fleets will do that anyway? Afterall, all other EWAR is treated this way so there's no particular reason ECM shouldn't be.

Where it *will* make a difference is in small gangs and soloing, where you can fit an ECCM and still have a falcon with all racial jammers keep you locked down - in this case the falcon has diminishing returns on his jammers and your ECCM is thus relatively more effective because every initial jam that doesn't land is more important, which emphasizes fitting ECCM as an effective counter to ECM and makes it less likely that any one individual in a gang will be permajammed in a fight and thus increase overall fun. Win win, right?

Any special ed can fit a ship with multi specs and plates and just sit there mash buttons, that indeed requires very little thought...if any.

However, being effective consistently, stay a live and generally not being terrible requires some thought.

ECM hardeners work, still not lot of pilots fit those. It's their problem. Quite cheap LG ECCM implants are
an option too.
ECM drones melt with help of smarbbombs. Use it.

Things which need balancing : other E-war platforms

- All e-war drones with exception of ecm suck
- Pilgrim needs rebalancing

- Dampener-ships need rebalancing

The problem is you need to gimp your fits to do it to put on modules which have little use other than to minimize (not counter!) the adverse effects of ECM.


Agreed.


Do they? Their dampening is quite effective, you probably mean their other stats.

The problem is you need to gimp your fits to do it to put on modules which have little use other than to minimize (not counter!) the adverse effects of ECM.


Agreed.


Do they? Their dampening is quite effective, you probably mean their other stats.

This back and forth is funny. I'm relatively new to the game. But I do find being jammed is horrible. There is nothing you can do but watch the screen like you were in the middle of watching a sports game and all of the sudden your stuck watching some crappy commercial. A commercial of something you have no interest in at all.

It could be an intense ball game, score tied up, adrenaline running high, clock about to run out, one team is in a position to score and....

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Yeah. That is what it feels like for me.