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T2 phoon will take me another YEAR to get into?

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SengH	Posted - 2006.07.06 01:59:00 - [31] Originally by: mrg29 your post is slightly misleading. the time required to GET INTO a t2 fitted phoon is significantly less than what u have quoted. the skilltree u have posted basically involves maxing out all relevants skills related to flying a phoon which is totally different. i'll pick on 2 examples, BS 5 and drone interfacing 5, neither of these is required to be able to fly a t2 outfitted phoon and these 2 skills alone account for over 2 months or around 20% of the training time. BS5 is to make up for your damage mods only affecting HALF your slots. The BS bonus affects both of them so its needed at 5 so as not to get screwed. Drone interfacing 5 is there so at the end of the VERY long road. The minmatar carrier might possibly be balanced. Or i'll go straight to wing command carriers. Even if you take off those 2. Its almost 280 days on top of 23mil SP to fly a Tier 1 BS. Does the domi/scorp/arma come anywhere near the same amount of SP to use fully fitted with T2? Even then, does the phoon perform better with the higher SP investment required? From preliminary calculations its hard to say that it does.
mrg29	Posted - 2006.07.06 02:02:00 - [32] not disagreeing that minmatar ships do require a wider spread of skills to be fully effective in that most other BS. i am predominantly a minnie pilot myself so i feel your pain. i suppose i was just being pedantic pointing out that the skill tree u set out was to reach maxed skills which is a different prospect from just being able to use a t2 outfitted ship which was what your initial post suggested. -
SengH	Posted - 2006.07.06 02:06:00 - [33] Originally by: mrg29 not disagreeing that minmatar ships do require a wider spread of skills to be fully effective in that most other BS. i am predominantly a minnie pilot myself so i feel your pain. i suppose i was just being pedantic pointing out that the skill tree u set out was to reach maxed skills which is a different prospect from just being able to use a t2 outfitted ship which was what your initial post suggested. To make t2 guns/missiles worth their extra expense you usually have to take the specialization to 4 which is what I did. The only things that are possibly "not needed" would be the shield tanking stuff, the smarties and drone interfacing 5. Thats about 2 months. Out of which the rest of the year is spend training solely for the t2 equipment. Furthermore I cut some corners by not training missile support skills to 5 which could arguably be needed since its a 50/50 weapon split. Missiles at least dont require the support skills to 5 to use the guns.
mrg29	Posted - 2006.07.06 02:12:00 - [34] all i was trying to say is that you will be able to use a fully outfitted t2 phoon in significantly less than a year. what u have outlined here is using a phoon to MAXIMUM EFFICIENCY which is a completely different thing and could be misleading to newer players. -
Xtro 2	Posted - 2006.07.06 04:43:00 - [35] Originally by: HippoKing Do you really need smartbombs? Or specialising in different drones, surely 1 types good enough to get started with. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically stemming from a form of mental illness.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.07.06 04:55:00 - [36] Originally by: SengH Edited by: SengH on 05/07/2006 22:30:09 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: SengH Edit: Ok if you want. Subtract off 1-2 months for assorted skills that arent really necessary. THATS STILL OVER 3/4 a year to get into a t2 fitted TIER 1 BS. If I was flying a geddon I'd be done already. So it is really only that long for you because you trained an odd path and left out a ton of basic skills. Not really a property of the phoon but of the way you trained your character. Realistically I would say the phoon needs some 30 days longer than the Arma for a full T2 fit, that is the 30 days I estimate it takes to train up Torp spec 3. All other skill reqs are kinda the same, guns, armor tank and T2 heavy drones. The thing is arma's drones arent really a primary weapons system. The phoon needs its drones having the 2nd largest BS dronebay and its split wpns system reduces the effects of dmg mods. You need both torps and cruise for the phoon depending on how you fit it. Which is a big problem. The Armageddon's drones are its secondary weapon system. The Typhoon's drones are its tertiary weapon system, tho it can be argued now that with the bonus changes, missiles and guns are both primary weapons for the phoon. But I can say for a fact the Arma doesnt need its drones any less than the phoon does. If anything, it needs them more given that it cant load FOF Cruise. Click Above
xeom	Posted - 2006.07.06 05:06:00 - [37] Ouch sengH so much for me flying the phoon.I still got till like november before i can get into a commandship =( CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.07.06 05:16:00 - [38] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 06/07/2006 05:16:45 Originally by: Imhotep Khem On the bright side, after I skill it up, it will come very close to beating a Tempest at which point it will need to be nerfed It already does m8. Take ewar out of the picture and two equally skilled pilots flying... Typhoon can and should win every single time in 20km and under combat. Elaine Threepwood has already posted on the Team Minmatar forums a Typhoon that is able to best AC Tempets, Blasterthrons and torp ravens. They year of the typhoon is here... its damn near perfect and I didn't believe it until it waxed me hardcore. Team Minmatar
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.07.06 05:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 06/07/2006 05:16:45 Originally by: Imhotep Khem On the bright side, after I skill it up, it will come very close to beating a Tempest at which point it will need to be nerfed It already does m8. Take ewar out of the picture and two equally skilled pilots flying... Typhoon can and should win every single time in 20km and under combat. Elaine Threepwood has already posted on the Team Minmatar forums a Typhoon that is able to best AC Tempets, Blasterthrons and torp ravens. They year of the typhoon is here... its damn near perfect and I didn't believe it until it waxed me hardcore. Between the new BS and the Typhoon, I'm very tempted to go back to Minnie ships. Click Above
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.07.06 05:52:00 - [40] Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 06/07/2006 05:16:45 Originally by: Imhotep Khem On the bright side, after I skill it up, it will come very close to beating a Tempest at which point it will need to be nerfed It already does m8. Take ewar out of the picture and two equally skilled pilots flying... Typhoon can and should win every single time in 20km and under combat. Elaine Threepwood has already posted on the Team Minmatar forums a Typhoon that is able to best AC Tempets, Blasterthrons and torp ravens. They year of the typhoon is here... its damn near perfect and I didn't believe it until it waxed me hardcore. Between the new BS and the Typhoon, I'm very tempted to go back to Minnie ships. Sobeseki Pawi is your old toon eh? Go to the phoon side again m8! Team Minmatar
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.07.06 06:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Eximius Josari Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 06/07/2006 05:16:45 Originally by: Imhotep Khem On the bright side, after I skill it up, it will come very close to beating a Tempest at which point it will need to be nerfed It already does m8. Take ewar out of the picture and two equally skilled pilots flying... Typhoon can and should win every single time in 20km and under combat. Elaine Threepwood has already posted on the Team Minmatar forums a Typhoon that is able to best AC Tempets, Blasterthrons and torp ravens. They year of the typhoon is here... its damn near perfect and I didn't believe it until it waxed me hardcore. Between the new BS and the Typhoon, I'm very tempted to go back to Minnie ships. Sobeseki Pawi is your old toon eh? Go to the phoon side again m8! I still have time yet before I need to make that decision, hoping some stats info on the new BSes comes out soon. Click Above
MrRookie	Posted - 2006.07.06 09:46:00 - [42] Minmatar ships have always had split wepon systems, infact I don't think there is any minmatar ships without a launchers slot. Suddenly now it became a good idea training missiles skills? I know Minnies rely on more skills but the op is exaggerating. It's not like those skills where more than usefull before the phon got a missile bonus. ________________________________________________
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.07.06 10:53:00 - [43] That list is overkill. While you need about 50% more training time for a good setup on a Typhoon, it's a Tier I as effective as a Tier II, it's got incredible damage, and it's versitile as hell. My Guides (Recomended Reading)
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.07.06 10:57:00 - [44] Originally by: MrRookie Minmatar ships have always had split wepon systems, infact I don't think there is any minmatar ships without a launchers slot. Suddenly now it became a good idea training missiles skills? I know Minnies rely on more skills but the op is exaggerating. It's not like those skills where more than usefull before the phon got a missile bonus. Generally all minmatar ships only have 1 or 2 slots left over after fitting as many turrets as possible and they either fit missiles or nos in them. The Typhoon and the recons are completely different. Exactly half of their weapon points are missiles, while the other have a turrets. Not only that, but the ships gets bonuses to both missiles and turrets. Finally, on these ships the missiles do more damage than the turrets. You would be better off flying them with good missile skills and crap gunnery than the other way around. Hence, if you want to fly a phoon properly you need damn good missile skills. TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine? LOL -Suvetar
Crange	Posted - 2006.07.06 11:55:00 - [45] Typhoon looks like a faction ship bonus and slot layout wise just without the extra armor. As a low sp mim pilot it is kinda funny to know that I'll be in a t2 temp months before I step foot in a phoon. But then again bein a mim pilot bit used to it.
MrRookie	Posted - 2006.07.06 12:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: MrRookie Minmatar ships have always had split wepon systems, infact I don't think there is any minmatar ships without a launchers slot. Suddenly now it became a good idea training missiles skills? I know Minnies rely on more skills but the op is exaggerating. It's not like those skills where more than usefull before the phon got a missile bonus. Generally all minmatar ships only have 1 or 2 slots left over after fitting as many turrets as possible and they either fit missiles or nos in them. The Typhoon and the recons are completely different. Exactly half of their weapon points are missiles, while the other have a turrets. Not only that, but the ships gets bonuses to both missiles and turrets. Finally, on these ships the missiles do more damage than the turrets. You would be better off flying them with good missile skills and crap gunnery than the other way around. Hence, if you want to fly a phoon properly you need damn good missile skills. ________________________________________________
Chakademus	Posted - 2006.07.06 14:28:00 - [47] Well what can i say that hasnt been said, Skills waisted other near essential skills not trained and unneeded ones in there too. I will have my phoon entirely kitted in t2 with t2 drones and i only started training for it about 2months ago. If you do get all those skills there then u will only be able to t2 almost every BS with an ok setup and with a bit of extra work in gunnery and u will have them all in t2. The phoon = BS you can do anything with and with the skills at that lvl you'll kill almost any other BS out there cause there wont be many with such a specialised ship that can stand up to that. I <3 my phoon soon to buy 3 more to play with so i dont have to carry around so many mods around with me.
Renowned	Posted - 2006.07.06 14:32:00 - [48] Uhm, Forget the large autocannon 5's, and the BS 5, really. Go NOS, a T2 Outfitted Phoon is not necessarily uber, or that much better then a properly outfitted pvphoon. You lose damage, but I think atm, on the phoon, 4 nos/ 4 cruise/torps (depending on what you can fit) is the best choice. And yeah, half your skills are ridiculous. I'm a 6 month old character, and have no where near another 6 months of training for full t2, try.. more like 3-4 months, and thats purely due to bs 5, which, I want for my macharial, and the t3, phoon doesnt need all that crap to be effective, just half of it. Fly it before you train it that way.. Cheers Restaurant and Bar Corporation Recruiter! Contact me ingame at Renowned, or join our channel CHRS to talk to us. Interested in Anti-Pirate Activity in Placid Region? Talk to me in game.
Stamm	Posted - 2006.07.06 14:40:00 - [49] You're an idiot posting misleading rubbish in order to try and make a point. What your post should be is '2 years to max out everything possible, for every fitting I can think of for a Typhoon' If you have 23mil SP, and all in Minmatar, then why can't you fire T2 large guns already? Where are your skillpoints? You need repair systems to V and you need shield skills? Are you planning on dual tanking it? You need spec level IV on your T2 drones, for all races? You need to max out cruise and torpedoes to get in it? What are you planning to have some of each? You have drone interfacing to level 2 and you have 23mil SP, again I have to ask what you have spent those skillpoints on. Surgical strike level 3? Again, same question... I'm sorry, you're attempting to deceive with this post, there are no two ways about it.
Crellion	Posted - 2006.07.06 16:25:00 - [50] Mattari whinage this whole thread... Their ships are only the second most skill intensive anyway (after Caldari) and only marginally more intensive than Gallente. Ammar are last. Nothing to see here move on. (After the developements in this game in the last 15 months listing drone skills and ew skills and tanking skills as "needed to fly a particular ship" -non drone bonused or EW bonused - is moronic to say the least. What you need is simple: 1) For Caldari: Missles and hybrids 2) For Gallente: Hybrids and drones (for the many dronebonus ships) 3) For Minmattar: Projectiles and missles. 4) For ammar: Lasers and drones (for the few dronebonused ships) Thats it. Drone skills, ew skills and tanking skills (both armor and shield for all races) helps of course. Caldaris cry cause they like Missles and Nos and dont want to have to train hybrids. Gallente cry cause they are uber blaster specced and now boo-hoo my ship needs drones too (or vice verca they are the more undecided race) Mattaris are a/c and Nos **** and if you suggest training missle skills they whine. Ammar are ALL lasers and NOTHING else (drone skills and missle skills are an insult to the Emperor). Boo-f***g-Hoo PS: @OP I have a character maxed for a Hulk and Morphite mining I want to train for Caldari BSs but people say I have to do Hybrids and missles and EW and shield tank and armor tank (for EW set ups) and navigation skills cap management and engineering skills and mechanic skill... I am desperate and think of leaving the game... what should I do Deidre?
SengH	Posted - 2006.07.06 16:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Stamm Edited by: Stamm on 06/07/2006 14:49:02 You're an idiot posting misleading rubbish in order to try and make a point. What your post should be is '2 years to max out everything possible, for every fitting I can think of for a Typhoon' If you have 23mil SP, and all in Minmatar, then why can't you fire T2 large guns already? Where are your skillpoints? You need repair systems to V and you need shield skills? Are you planning on dual tanking it? You need spec level IV on your T2 drones, for all races? You need to max out cruise and torpedoes to get in it? What are you planning to have some of each? You have drone interfacing to level 2 and you have 23mil SP, again I have to ask what you have spent those skillpoints on. Surgical strike level 3? Again, same question... I'm sorry, you're attempting to deceive with this post, there are no two ways about it. Edit : Yes I know you are leadership specced. But your original post claimed you were fully Minmatar specced, it's at least deceiving to say that without saying how many SP you've invested in leadership. But then again, your whole post was designed to mislead. If you even read the thread I said I put the shield skills in there for my claymore. I am minnie specced as I can use the claymore how its meant to be used at 97% effectivenses. As I'm going to be flying that for the foreseeable future. I tossed that in there. Its far more useful than any single pvp pilot in almost any group situation. Drone interfacing lvl 2 is back from the time when the bonus was +1 drones per level. The tempest had space for just 7 heavy drones and I saw little to any point in training it further at the time. I havent had the time since to deal with it. Surgical strike 3 is because I could not justify spending the 4 days for 3% more damage when it could better be spent on other skills that would allow me doing my job better. I fly command ships as how their supposed to be used, not like the superhac crowd. I even said remove 1-2 months if that makes you happy for skills that you deem extraenous. That still puts it @ 270 days. Well over 3/4 a year, to fly a TIER 1 BS at tech 2 effectiveness.
Stamm	Posted - 2006.07.06 16:36:00 - [52] If we want to argue about it. Amarr have to train shield tanking, armour tanking, missiles, lasers and drones. Minmatar have to train the same, except substitute projectiles for lasers, and miss out controlled bursts.
Renowned	Posted - 2006.07.06 16:39:00 - [53] phoon is the most expensive tier 1 bs, and the most widely varied. If you think about it, it makes sense that it'd take longer to train for max effectiveness. but its not about maxing everything out man, its about using it when you can with satisfactory output. That doesn't require everything t2, etc etc etc... or all lvl 5 skills, or you'll be waiting a while to use it. -------------------------------------------------- Interested in Anti-Pirate Activity in Placid Region?
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.07.06 19:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Stamm If we want to argue about it. Amarr have to train shield tanking, armour tanking, missiles, lasers and drones. Minmatar have to train the same, except substitute projectiles for lasers, and miss out controlled bursts. What shield tanking amarr ship? Surely you don't mean the SAC? 4 mids is not a shield tanking ship especially in PvP. Team Minmatar
Stamm	Posted - 2006.07.06 19:42:00 - [55] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Stamm If we want to argue about it. Amarr have to train shield tanking, armour tanking, missiles, lasers and drones. Minmatar have to train the same, except substitute projectiles for lasers, and miss out controlled bursts. What shield tanking amarr ship? Surely you don't mean the SAC? 4 mids is not a shield tanking ship especially in PvP. I'm being pedantic. You can shield tank Amarr ships. Apoc has 4 midslots and a reasonable amount of shields. Damnation and sacrilege have 4 midslots. Vengeance has 3 midslots. Many of the Khanid ships specifically mention shields. It is not unreasonable to shield tank Amarr ships. It's certainly as reasonable as it is to completely max out both armour and shield tanking to fly one ship. I'm simply trying to demonstrate how ludicrous the original post is.

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