| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
THXBYE
Elite War Squad
7
   |
Posted - 2011.11.22 02:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
qq more |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 02:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Brusanan wrote:JitaJane wrote:Who?
New players who read about ganking and dive right in (again not capable of flying anything worth killing)?
Low and Null seccers jumping on the goonwagon for lulz? Again not flying (or wearing implants) that are worth a damn?
Naturally the aggressions mechanics are different for low sec. That is why it is low sec.
I realize here that you are trying to defend a manner of play you deem 'fun'. I have not denied that or suggested any change in aggression or other game mechanics to combat it (if anything I was arguing against a change in mechanics). The fact remains that the bulk of hi sec ganks are gank-alts. And that there is little point in using KRs on a gank alt. It has been that way for years. I suicide gank with my main. So do plenty of my alliance mates. But my advice wasn't necessarily for collecting killrights on suicide gankers, just collecting killrights in general. The fact that you can't get back at suicide gank alts is pretty much irrelevant to the OP's suggestion, and there really is no possible fix for it that isn't game-breaking. As a side note, so few people actually collect killrights these days that we tend to surprise the **** out of other PVPers when we go and collect ours. It's really quite convenient.
Cool story bro. I wasted 5 minutes of my time and looked at your killboard a bit. Did not see any highsec hulk kills. Or haulers for that matter. |
THXBYE
Elite War Squad
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 02:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:Brusanan wrote:JitaJane wrote:Who?
New players who read about ganking and dive right in (again not capable of flying anything worth killing)?
Low and Null seccers jumping on the goonwagon for lulz? Again not flying (or wearing implants) that are worth a damn?
Naturally the aggressions mechanics are different for low sec. That is why it is low sec.
I realize here that you are trying to defend a manner of play you deem 'fun'. I have not denied that or suggested any change in aggression or other game mechanics to combat it (if anything I was arguing against a change in mechanics). The fact remains that the bulk of hi sec ganks are gank-alts. And that there is little point in using KRs on a gank alt. It has been that way for years. I suicide gank with my main. So do plenty of my alliance mates. But my advice wasn't necessarily for collecting killrights on suicide gankers, just collecting killrights in general. The fact that you can't get back at suicide gank alts is pretty much irrelevant to the OP's suggestion, and there really is no possible fix for it that isn't game-breaking. As a side note, so few people actually collect killrights these days that we tend to surprise the **** out of other PVPers when we go and collect ours. It's really quite convenient. Cool story bro. I wasted 5 minutes of my time and looked at your killboard a bit. Did not see any highsec hulk kills. Or haulers for that matter.
this |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
89
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 02:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
Just make the bounty system viable. |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 03:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
THXBYE wrote:JitaJane wrote:Brusanan wrote:JitaJane wrote:Who?
New players who read about ganking and dive right in (again not capable of flying anything worth killing)?
Low and Null seccers jumping on the goonwagon for lulz? Again not flying (or wearing implants) that are worth a damn?
Naturally the aggressions mechanics are different for low sec. That is why it is low sec.
I realize here that you are trying to defend a manner of play you deem 'fun'. I have not denied that or suggested any change in aggression or other game mechanics to combat it (if anything I was arguing against a change in mechanics). The fact remains that the bulk of hi sec ganks are gank-alts. And that there is little point in using KRs on a gank alt. It has been that way for years. I suicide gank with my main. So do plenty of my alliance mates. But my advice wasn't necessarily for collecting killrights on suicide gankers, just collecting killrights in general. The fact that you can't get back at suicide gank alts is pretty much irrelevant to the OP's suggestion, and there really is no possible fix for it that isn't game-breaking. As a side note, so few people actually collect killrights these days that we tend to surprise the **** out of other PVPers when we go and collect ours. It's really quite convenient. Cool story bro. I wasted 5 minutes of my time and looked at your killboard a bit. Did not see any highsec hulk kills. Or haulers for that matter. this
*bows* |
THXBYE
Elite War Squad
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 14:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:THXBYE wrote:JitaJane wrote:Brusanan wrote:JitaJane wrote:Who?
New players who read about ganking and dive right in (again not capable of flying anything worth killing)?
Low and Null seccers jumping on the goonwagon for lulz? Again not flying (or wearing implants) that are worth a damn?
Naturally the aggressions mechanics are different for low sec. That is why it is low sec.
I realize here that you are trying to defend a manner of play you deem 'fun'. I have not denied that or suggested any change in aggression or other game mechanics to combat it (if anything I was arguing against a change in mechanics). The fact remains that the bulk of hi sec ganks are gank-alts. And that there is little point in using KRs on a gank alt. It has been that way for years. I suicide gank with my main. So do plenty of my alliance mates. But my advice wasn't necessarily for collecting killrights on suicide gankers, just collecting killrights in general. The fact that you can't get back at suicide gank alts is pretty much irrelevant to the OP's suggestion, and there really is no possible fix for it that isn't game-breaking. As a side note, so few people actually collect killrights these days that we tend to surprise the **** out of other PVPers when we go and collect ours. It's really quite convenient. Cool story bro. I wasted 5 minutes of my time and looked at your killboard a bit. Did not see any highsec hulk kills. Or haulers for that matter. this *bows*
Yep |
Jojo Jackson
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 15:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jojo Jackson wrote:There is a tool which functionality is terrible broken.
Gankers KNOW, their victims (most times) can't chase them to use the killright systems. How is the functionality broken when it is the player's choice to exclude himself from the functionality? Quote:Becouse of this, the hole killright system is USELESS! No, it is not useless GÇö it is just not used because people are not willing to use it. That is thier choice, not a flaw in the system.
I know why you don't like this change.
Gankers use friends to fly the hauler-thiefs or the neutral RR-alts which secure the loot of the gank-victims.
Now a gank-victim could use HIS friends to secure the killrights ...
YOU FEAR TO BECOME A TARGET WHIMPY ! 
PS: it's just another component of this game where balance FAIL hardcore!
The criminal and anti sozial players get all help they want/need and their targets get nothing!
The killrights should be extendet to anyone who try to loot the victims wreck who is not a friend of the victim!
AND the killrights should be extendet to any remot-help the ganker had (sensor booster, energy booster, scouts in his gank) and EVERY CHAR WHO IS INVOLVED IN ANY FORM!. |
Denidil
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
189
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 15:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jojo Jackson wrote:There is a tool which functionality is terrible broken.
Gankers KNOW, their victims (most times) can't chase them to use the killright systems. How is the functionality broken when it is the player's choice to exclude himself from the functionality? Quote:Becouse of this, the hole killright system is USELESS! No, it is not useless GÇö it is just not used because people are not willing to use it. That is thier choice, not a flaw in the system. Denidil wrote:suicide gankers are just another form of decbears - you want kills, but you don't want PVP (you might *gasp* loose your ship!) Wow. That was probably the most clueless thing I've heard in a long timeGǪ Take a minute to consider why it's called suicide ganking, and why what you just said makes no sense. Oh, and do yourself a favour: think before you type and figure out some kind of argument before opening your mouth and stinking up the place.
oh good point, i meant to say "*gasp* you might give up a killmail to someone else"
MM Bombers, Best Bombers |
Hauling Hal
The Black Ops
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
When my industrial alt got ganked, we just used a locator agent to find the CEO of the corp that did it and ganked his T2 cloaking hauler leaving a hisec station and podded him. Much more satisfying that getting kill rights on a 2 month old char and didn't require any changes to the current mechanics, as we could live with the sec loss for one kill. |
Hulk Smasher
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
You guys are cute. You think suicide gankers even care about kill rights. Most of us space assholes live in nullsec or low sec. Hell I have -10 so you never see me in a ship you can take in high sec.-á
The truth is, you want your revenge but in the safety (safer) of high sec. Well you won't get it. Kill rights are only good for those that are dumb and gank while living in high sec.-á
You want your revenge? Come to Dek. |
Sharise Dragonstar
Celestial Task Force
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
Give kill rights for the ganker and any characters found on accounts that use the same IP address. Also make it possible for victims freinds to have kill right.
At the moment there are hardly any penalties for suicide ganking. Maybe they would think twice if their shiny 2bn+ isk capital ship is destroyed becaus their alt in a 100kisk ship on another account suicided ganked someones miner. |
Hauling Hal
The Black Ops
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Hulk Smasher wrote:Most people that suicide gank live in nullsec or at least low sec. If you want revenge you can find me in dek usually. Question is, will you leave the safety of high sec? Cause you never get anything in revenge from me in high sec.
I think you'll find that there is no such thing as suicide ganking in lowsec or nullsec. Goon ice mining kills aside, they usually operate in hisec and gank haulers on their way to Jita, usually in Uedama. When they get a low sec status, they use up 2 more alts and then just close the account and start another one to avoid the recycling alts rule. |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
When are the blathering retards like OP going to learn that nothing stimulates suicide ganking or other griefing tactics more than threads like this? When will they learn that occasionally being suicide ganked as a miner is merely a cost of doing business and that suicide ganking is probably the only thing keeping mining semi-profitable?
If you're a miner, thank a suicide ganker today. If you want on the killmail, make sure you have a warrior or two out and set to aggressive.
|
Hulk Smasher
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hauling Hal wrote:Hulk Smasher wrote:Most people that suicide gank live in nullsec or at least low sec. If you want revenge you can find me in dek usually. Question is, will you leave the safety of high sec? Cause you never get anything in revenge from me in high sec. I think you'll find that there is no such thing as suicide ganking in lowsec or nullsec. Goon ice mining kills aside, they usually operate in hisec and gank haulers on their way to Jita, usually in Uedama. When they get a low sec status, they use up 2 more alts and then just close the account and start another one to avoid the recycling alts rule.
You are dumb. You think people pay 40 bucks after a few hits. You will never get revenge on us in high sec though. Feel free to leave high sec where you don't even need kill rights though.-á |
Hulk Smasher
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sharise Dragonstar wrote:Give kill rights for the ganker and any characters found on accounts that use the same IP address. Also make it possible for victims freinds to have kill right.
At the moment there are hardly any penalties for suicide ganking. Maybe they would think twice if their shiny 2bn+ isk capital ship is destroyed becaus their alt in a 100kisk ship on another account suicided ganked someones miner.
Good news, you can shoot my capitals and super capital already without kill rights since they are only in low or null sec.-á
Will you come out and shoot it without Concord or faction police though?-á |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
2311
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Sharise Dragonstar wrote:Give kill rights for the ganker and any characters found on accounts that use the same IP address. Also make it possible for victims freinds to have kill right.
At the moment there are hardly any penalties for suicide ganking. Maybe they would think twice if their shiny 2bn+ isk capital ship is destroyed becaus their alt in a 100kisk ship on another account suicided ganked someones miner. 
CCP Zulu.....
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1633
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:I know why you don't like this change. Ok. Why?
Quote:Gankers use friends to fly the hauler-thiefs or the neutral RR-alts which secure the loot of the gank-victims.
Now a gank-victim could use HIS friends to secure the killrights ... No, gankers will not use neutral RR (or, if they do, then we're already talking about a different situation where those victim's friends can already help).
Quote:PS: it's just another component of this game where balance FAIL hardcore!
The criminal and anti sozial players get all help they want/need and their targets get nothing! The targets get the right to exact revenge. If he chooses not to make use of that right, for whatever reason, why should he be given even more rights?
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Jojo Jackson
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tippia wrote:If he chooses not to make use of that right
brainless
As if a dedicated miner/industrial had the needed ingame skills to use them.
But hey it's cool, as soon as you gank someone, your victim gain FREE fighting skills for 30 days so he can make use of his killrights.
That's a deal I can live with ;).
Or how about this. Your victim get his skills boosted to the level of your skills.
If you gank him in a Arti Trasher ... he instantly gain the skills to use a Arti Trasher to kill you WITHOUT WASTING HIS TIME TO TRAIN FOR IT! |
Psychophantic
113
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
The criminal and anti sozial players get all help they want/need and their targets get nothing!
The targets get the right to exact revenge. If he chooses not to make use of that right, for whatever reason, why should he be given even more rights? [/quote]
Stop being so pedantic and realize it's pretty simple.
In a game which actively encourages the use of alts and many people have cyno alts, pirate alts, salvage alts, hauler alts, mining alts, market alts, pve alts, pvp alts and more, there's not much recourse when that 10m sp dedicated gank alt takes out a 10m sp dedicated miner/hauling alt.
Why even bother giving kill rights at all. |
Sharise Dragonstar
Celestial Task Force
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Hulk Smasher wrote:Sharise Dragonstar wrote:Give kill rights for the ganker and any characters found on accounts that use the same IP address. Also make it possible for victims freinds to have kill right.
At the moment there are hardly any penalties for suicide ganking. Maybe they would think twice if their shiny 2bn+ isk capital ship is destroyed becaus their alt in a 100kisk ship on another account suicided ganked someones miner. Good news, you can shoot my capitals and super capital already without kill rights since they are only in low or null sec.-á Will you come out and shoot it without Concord or faction police though?-á
Not by myself no but if I had the opportunity to catch you alone or in a favourable position i would bring as many alliance mates as possible that wanted to come. Problem is though at moment there is no way to find out who else is on the ganking alts IP address. Out of interest, say the above occurred to yourself, you lost a multi billion isk ship just becaus you ganked someones miner for minimal profit (in comparrison to your loss) in your alts 100k isk suicide boat, would you reconsider ganking another miner? |
Hulk Smasher
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:Tippia wrote:If he chooses not to make use of that right brainless As if a dedicated miner/industrial had the needed ingame skills to use them. But hey it's cool, as soon as you gank someone, your victim gain FREE fighting skills for 30 days so he can make use of his killrights. That's a deal I can live with ;). Or how about this. Your victim get his skills boosted to the level of your skills. If you gank him in a Arti Trasher ... he instantly gain the skills to use a Arti Trasher to kill you WITHOUT WASTING HIS TIME TO TRAIN FOR IT!
This is such a terrible idea. Unless you want me to make it so I have an army of lvl 5 guys.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1633
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:As if a dedicated miner/industrial had the needed ingame skills to use them. He does if he chooses to make use of that right.
Why should the game compensate for your (apparently) poor choices?
Psychophantic wrote:In a game which actively encourages the use of altsGǪ GǪthe choice to do so is ultimately yours, and if you pick a combination that leaves you hideously vulnerable in some specific area, then that's your choice and you can't really complain if others take advantage of your chosen weakness.
Quote:Why even bother giving kill rights at all. Maybe to encourage people to train up their combat skills if they believe that they might be attacked?
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Sharise Dragonstar
Celestial Task Force
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 16:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
I do agree a lot with what Tippia is saying but kill rights should be given to corp members of the victim.
At the moment you can't and its kind of like a soldier not being allowed to shoot a known enemy that shot one of his squad mates....just does not make sense to me. |
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
The Veerhouven Group
32
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 17:02:00 -
[54] - Quote
I believe that suicide gankers are an issue that the game designers need to address, not indie pilots or corps.
Unfortunately, it appears that a significant percentage of the player base only sees the game as a way log on for a few minutes just so they can ruin someone's day.
CCP is already in the financial dungheap. I doubt they will do anything about suicide ganking any time soon.
Location: Currently circling the toilet bowl that is Eve. |
Hulk Smasher
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 17:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
Sharise Dragonstar wrote:I do agree a lot with what Tippia is saying but kill rights should be given to corp members of the victim.-á
At the moment you can't and its kind of like a soldier not being allowed to shoot a known enemy that shot one of his squad mates....just does not make sense to me.
Why, my corp or alliance will not be able to shoot you. Kill rights give you an advantage as you can dictate the fight is 1 vs 1 (beyond a remote) and when to have the fight.
The revenge is personal. You don't get to pile up when your kill right can't do the same. |
Baaldor
Sin Factory
Anarchy Unlimited
52
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 17:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:brainless
MLYP
No amount of Faction / Officer Mods or Skill points will ever give you the edge of defending your self or follow up with a kill rights if you have never even tried to learn the basic aspect of this game.
A n00b with 1/10 of your sp's, that has actually learned some pvp, will tear your ass apart in a lesser ship class and t1 mods.
|
HellGate fr
Yarrbear Inc.
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 17:14:00 -
[57] - Quote
This thread only proves that carebears have always and will forever whine about ganking, even when it's getting nerfed.
Go get a brain and don't get ganked you retards. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
2311
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 17:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
HellGate fr wrote:This thread only proves that carebears have always and will forever whine about ganking, even when it's getting nerfed.
Go get a brain and don't get ganked you retards. Pretty much.
Although many of us knew that the insurance wasn't the end of the whines, I actually do see that a change to the kill rights system may be a good thing.
I'm not sure about the whole corp being allowed to use the right, but I do see merit in trading rights.
CCP Zulu.....
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Takseen
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 17:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Takseen wrote:Because the averagehulk pilot's tools are blunt and useless. Yes, but that's his choice GÇö why should the game compensate for his (apparently) poor choice? Quote: Really there's no logical reason to argue against this, if you're really into the risk and reward element of Eve Sure there is. First of all because it comes from someone who doesn't know or care about the mechanics he wants to change. That alone makes his idea highly suspect. Second of all (and probably as a consequence of that) because there are far better proposals that the OP doesn't know (or care?) about.
If you've seen a better proposal to fix killrights, then why not link the thread? Aside from then not being able to engage in pointless forum arguments :)
As for the argument that every hulk pilot should have to train combat skills to exercise his kill rights, why? Specialisation is a huge part of Eve Online gameplay, with alts existing for every almost role, including suicide ganking and mining. Combat pilots can follow bookmarks collected by a scout alt, they can warp to a beacon created by a cyno alt, they can suicide gank based on information gathered by a scouting alt, they can send and receive ISK from their market alts. But when a mining alt wants to farm out some killing duties to a combat character, suddenly that's not cool and he should have to the same dude?
The only decent argument I've seen against the idea is from the Goonswarm guy. His point being that if he ganks someone and the target and his corp come for revenge, they all get the first shot advantage before he can fire back, and if I understand it correctly the ganker's corpmates can't fire back at all. So on that basis perhaps trading kill rights on a one for one basis would work better? So any miners in an indy corp that get ganked pass the kill rights on to their enforcer combat pilot who is then in a position to return the favour, and you still get one one one encounters(to start with anyway). |
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 17:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I am betting a ton of these elite PvP'ers would suddenly reconsider their operations if they rolled through a gate and saw 3 or 4 corp members waiting for him the next day. I mean, geez, they might actually get a loss mail then on their record, and that wouldn't do.
You overestimate the chances of non-PvPers. I've personally beaten gangs of 6-8 high sec bears easily in a single battlecruiser. Now, granted, not everyone in high sec is a complete **** in PvP (which I've also experienced). |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |