By that I mean please stop trolling as you obviously have an agenda that benefits from these changes staying.
Good for you but I'd like wormholes not dead.

-1 for the changes. Please implement a fix. I'd settle for a mini-jump-drive, for caps only, that moves you 10km forward, and eats a chunk of your cap.

But I do have a huge problem with idiotic comments that are only going to drive CCP Devs deeper into the bunker of denial.

Edit: You're the second person to accuse me of trolling. I think the WH community is poorly served by mouth pieces - like yourself and epicurus ataraxia - who feel they need ad hom attacks to silence slightly dissonant voices. Disappointed.

We wish to discuss the mass spawn jump "luck mechanic" and it's effect on the game, your personal attacks and selective quoting are purely disruptive, an attempt to derail the forum into chaos, and not welcome.

-1 for the changes. Please implement a fix. I'd settle for a mini-jump-drive, for caps only, that moves you 10km forward, and eats a chunk of your cap.

While I agree with your viewpoint I can quite understand the disappointment that has resulted to some people resorting to it, I've had to go back and edit a few of my posts several times before hitting post. I like a lot of the work Fozzie does but I just can't understand this one, the reasoning behind it is completely lost to me and I don't understand why this thread has turned out the way it has even before anyone resorted to less than polite/less than constructive posting.

Thanks for taking the time to try to see where I'm coming from.

I do understand why so many WHers are disappointed... a lot of my own corp are too. I am myself.

But i'm long enough in the toof to understand how the Dev-Player dynamic works in EVE. Threadnaughts aren't effective ways of bringing change - especially not emotionally charged posts like so many in this thread. Subs count more - that's why the post-Incarna changes happened.

Disentangling the emotion, from the reality, we've seen that CCP haven't listened to player feedback to Sisi tests of major features - like the industry screen. I'm just not surprised with the way things have worked out on this expansion - and therefore i'm maybe less inclined to the nerdrage, let alone the badly articulated nerdrage we're seeing in this thread.

We need a constructive response, which some are arguing for. But when prominent WH advocates who normally do a great job jump on the emotional bandwagon, we all lose out.

Thanks again.

I know this thread has de-evolved into something to be ashamed of, but does anyone really think CCP is monitoring this anymore? I certainly don't. When this threadnaught was still in it's infancy, many people gave well thought out and articulate responses. While there were a lot of emotional responses as well, CCP had the responses they we thought they were asking for. Then it appeared that they either ignored them or disagreed and moved forward anyway. This is why i think the responses have gotten much more emotional, and why people are using the word, "betrayed".

They feel betrayed because they had the wrong premise. They felt, myself included, that CCP was interested in whether we liked the change or if there were ways that we could see a version of the change that we would accept. Now I see much more clearly that what they really were asking for were the ways in which the change might break mechanics they were interested in, not us. An example of this would be how it was pointed out that if a K162 only spawned when someone jumped through it, then our connections would be far less as people chose not to jump through. We gave feedback, they saw the error of their implementation and adjusted. They were NEVER thinking about scrapping the mass jump distance. They just wanted to know if it would break anymore of their plans at creating more connectivity and risk.

Anyone remember the ice miner tears? 95% were against the change to remove unlimited ice. Now ice mining is better and more profitable then ever.

Adapt and quit crying. The only mistake CCP made was letting safe-holes go on for this long.

Safe holes lol you have no idea what you are talking about null bear..Lets remove local From Null ..heck lets remove local from low sec as well..Safe holes..Get a clue.

pretty sure that is an npc corp poster which is not known for its presence in nullsec

Before we do yet another round of who has the biggest pedigree in W-space, lets just not.

People are pissed for the changes, not cause there is change (w-space needed some), its more that there was no constructive reason or thought behind them.

the changes should improve space with a plan behind it to make it at least so people would like to go there, instead of abandoning it.

holes got only safer due to the stupid scanner patch showing holes, making it harder to surprise people. now they make it harder to roll finding targets, and it makes farmers less secure, so they take even risk.

smaller corps leave, taking out people, and there are less people to shoot, which will just go on and on till there are to few people to sustain the situation as it was before.

instead of unwanted changes, where are the pos changes, something that for one would at least for smaller corps and beginning corps would make it more appealing to move in a wormhole.

the mass-bases spawn distance change CCP should at least have put on hold seeing this thread pre the patch.
then again putting their head in the sand by not having a discussion after the patch, shows that CSM and forums really are there just to for show.

I think you need to learn to read and understand what people are saying.

I've no problem with customers making complaints. But I have a huge problem with customers taking to a public forum and denigrating the sacrifice of real world war veterans to explain their feelings of betrayal. I find that sickening. Plus it does nothing to help CCP hear their customers' complaint.

Stop justifying this nonsense.

[quote=JTK Fotheringham]
First of all I was making an analogy of the effect of poor planning causing a great sense of betrayal. The use of what happened with Pearl Harbor was to illustrate that timing is everything, and to screw up that timing creates miserable failures from what could have been awe inspiring success. If you can't distinguish between the situations being similar and some misconstrued outrage on your part being entirely of your own choosing, then words alone will never achieve anything with you.

Second, I would never denigrate the armed forces of my country or that of any other without very specific cause, and that hasn't happened here. The tragedy for the US military that was the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor was one nation's military attacking another nation's military installation. This wasn't the slaughters we see in the news regularly of armed militia slaughtering civilians. Both sides believed they were in the right and were obeying instructions from their commanders. Both sides attempted to fight with honor in they ways they understood honor to exist. Both sides were soldiers in the profession of war. To believe that a soldier is not risking his life by putting on a uniform is naivete in the extreme.

Finally, stop arguing your opinion about my words at someone else. If you want to speak against what I said, say it to me, direct it at my posts, and I will remind you that this forum isn't about that one real life event, it's about discussion of the game we are playing using a similar historical reference in my case. Please take the history lesson in context. I could just as easily speak about an event in local corporate politics, but that carriers less understanding and, therefore, less weight.

Let's get back to the part when they tell protesters in Jita to go protest on forums after they ignore over 100 pages of combined posts (if you include thread they made for criticism and then deleted). This goes beyond caring. Were talking intentional lies and deception.

If you can't say something pertinent to wormholes, this new mechanic, or the rest of our discussion about what these changes mean for us or our peers in the game, then please leave. Now. Go.

Your constant bemoaning our examples as inappropriate to some group somewhere has likened your speech to the parade of placards of the ignoble dead held by protesters next to an abortion clinic. After the first time driving by, everyone just ignores it because it's scenery.

-1 for the changes. Please implement a fix. I'd settle for a mini-jump-drive, for caps only, that moves you 10km forward, and eats a chunk of your cap.

Anyone remember the ice miner tears? 95% were against the change to remove unlimited ice. Now ice mining is better and more profitable then ever.

Adapt and quit crying. The only mistake CCP made was letting safe-holes go on for this long.

I mined ice before the changes and I'd rather have the old way rather than the current way as logging in and the ice belt either not being up (and you no idea how long until the next one spawns) or it so close to being empty that the only difference from the "not there" option is I at least know how long I have to wait on the next spawn. Ice prices are increasing because fewer people are mining it not because it's better. And don't even go suggesting I pick up the exhumer and go jumping to the other ice systems on the off chance they havent despawned as that takes way too much time in an exhumer.

@epicurus...why use an automated program when you can just not ban the trolls for trolling and do ban the customers actually affected by the changes (or at least threaten to ban them hoping they will shut up)

I still find it very hard to believe that a human could fail the turing test.
But you are right, that would fail to work too, once the attitude becomes prevalent, that your customers are the enemy, then there is little hope left.

So, what do we do?

Perma-wardec any corp Chitsa Jason is in? Burn Narwhals out of their hole for the same reason? Apparently he's the idiot who suggested this change.

Alternatively we could just go and drop a massive fleet of all wormholers on the Jita monument. There aren't enough of us that a mass-unsub would make a big difference to CCP's bottom line.

Anyone remember the ice miner tears? 95% were against the change to remove unlimited ice. Now ice mining is better and more profitable then ever.

Adapt and quit crying. The only mistake CCP made was letting safe-holes go on for this long.

This is actually a genuine question.

< words... >

I have just suffered a string of attacks, accusing me of all sorts of things, and even had the bot follow me onto mail in an attempt to cause outrage by accusing me of abusing animals.

Just weird phrases strung together.

My offence that triggered the program? Replying to a reasoned poster in a rational manner somehow made me a target for the trollbot. And I was then accused of all sorts as my "trigger" post quoted and contained the original post. Therefore it switched target to me and misapplied in each case.

Very mysterious.

I cannot believe a human was at the keyboard.
It will be fascinating, to see what part of this post it will extract to continue the goal of thread derailment,

< moar words... .

-1 for the changes. Please implement a fix. I'd settle for a mini-jump-drive, for caps only, that moves you 10km forward, and eats a chunk of your cap.

-1 for the changes. Please implement a fix. I'd settle for a mini-jump-drive, for caps only, that moves you 10km forward, and eats a chunk of your cap.

It more or less puts you back where you were, so might as well not beat around the bush and just revert the change IMO.