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Kery Nysell
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
Originally by: Kery Nysell I'm Caldari, so according to Noriath I'll always be a noob, but something struck me :
8 guns loaded with Javelin L ? The things that cut 10% from your shield and max speed for each gun loaded with them ?
I can't wait to see a Rokh with less shields than a Caracal, and the speed of a hauler ...
Yeah, uber damage at long range ... and that ammo just killed it's tanking bonus ... counterproductive ?
that ammo is for ganks mainly i think
All damage and no survivability ... let's hope the ennemy doesn't have the balls to fire back ... because with a -80% on the shield, and the same -80% on the speed, that Rokh will be a very expensive and fragile snail ...
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Millennium
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:48:00 -
[62]
So armor tank it and fit ECM?
That wasn't so hard now was it?
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Drelaz
Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:52:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Drelaz on 25/07/2006 21:52:48 Edited by: Drelaz on 25/07/2006 21:52:18 I can't believe that they actually pushed this through, yes caldari was lacking a fleet BS sniper for sure. In return they have following things: - The lowest SPs needing BS to fly properly. - They can chose damage types. - They can hit everything from very close to fairly far, which makes them excellent in smaller engagement as proven again in the alliance tournament. - They have great support snipers that can hit even interceptors with little effort at BS sniping range.
Caldari was very good as it is only being compensated due the lack of a Sniper BS. And now they get a sniper that hits 10% per rank farther then the megathron and that would probably out damage it to. The caldari BS sniper should have never seen the light let alone stand like this.
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Kery Nysell
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:55:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux So armor tank it and fit ECM?
That wasn't so hard now was it?
Nice way of using only half the ship bonuses.
I could say "Heresy ! Armor tanking a Caldari ship is asking for a burning !!", but I'm not a Spanish Inquisitor ...
And you really think those things won't have at least an ECM onboard, even when shield tanked ? PvP = ECM these days, at least from what I can read on these boards (I don't do any PvP, I find that boring to death ...).
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BrerLapin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:58:00 -
[65]
**** whine, If caldari are so uber why dont you play as one ?
Originally by: Market Scanner Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:58:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 21:59:23
Originally by: Drelaz Edited by: Drelaz on 25/07/2006 21:52:48 Edited by: Drelaz on 25/07/2006 21:52:18 I can't believe that they actually pushed this through, yes caldari was lacking a fleet BS sniper for sure. In return they have following things: - The lowest SPs needing BS to fly properly. - They can chose damage types. - They can hit everything from very close to fairly far, which makes them excellent in smaller engagement as proven again in the alliance tournament. - They have great support snipers that can hit even interceptors with little effort at BS sniping range.
Caldari was very good as it is only being compensated due the lack of a Sniper BS. And now they get a sniper that hits 10% per rank farther then the megathron and that would probably out damage it to. The caldari BS sniper should have never seen the light let alone stand like this.
It was pretty expected to be honest. We knew it was a railboat and I would have been even more surprised if it had been a close combat ship.
That being said.. for new players today, i think training hybrids is the thing to do. With hybrid skills at good levels, you can easily switch between gallente and caldari ships depending on what you want to do. And those two races basicly covers the extremes in this game.
So caldari for sniping, mission running and jamming. Gallente for close combat and sometimes sniping as well.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:00:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jarra Wixx How about you wait until you actually see the ship in action before you start flying off the handle.
Dont you DARE come in here with that new fangled common sense!
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:00:00 -
[68]
Originally by: BrerLapin **** whine, If caldari are so uber why dont you play as one ?
For those of you who ever watch QI on TV in the UK (and if you don't, do), this response sets off the big "OH DEAR YOU LOSE" style flashy thing.
Worst arguement ever I'm afraid.
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:02:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Jarra Wixx How about you wait until you actually see the ship in action before you start flying off the handle.
Dont you DARE come in here with that new fangled common sense!
I stood by this for ages. I decided that we shouldn't judge things till we could test them, and see the stats and fly them, and stuff. Then we got t2 ammo. Remember that deal?
Wish I'd whined before it was released
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Kery Nysell
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:04:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Drelaz
- The lowest SPs needing BS to fly properly.
Low SPs + Raven + PvE = dead Raven.
Yes, you don't need much SPs to learn the Torpedoes skill ...
BUT you need a bunch of SPs in Engineering skills to be able to TANK that Raven ... and a bunch of SPs in Drones, because your Cruise/Torpedoes are not that good against small ships, so 5 Light Drones with good skills are not an option ... and some more skills in Engineering if you want a NOS ... or a bit of Gunnery for those last two slots ... oooh and don't forget a whole bunch of SPs in Electronics if you want to fit those dreaded ECMs ...
About that "choose the damage type" bit ... almost all Caldari missile boat have a KINETIC damage bonus, the Raven and the Kestrel are the exceptions ... and quite frankly, reloading in the middle of a fight to change your damage type means 10~15 seconds without any damage, and then you still have the flight time of the missiles ... largely enough for your opponent to warp, or repair himself ...
Have you tried Caldari ships ? After almost two years, I find them "about good" with low skills, but like all other ships in the game, they shine ONLY when you have really high and specialised skills ...
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Drelaz
Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:19:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Drelaz on 25/07/2006 22:19:41
Originally by: Kery Nysell About that "choose the damage type" bit ... almost all Caldari missile boat have a KINETIC damage bonus, the Raven and the Kestrel are the exceptions ... and quite frankly, reloading in the middle of a fight to change your damage type means 10~15 seconds without any damage, and then you still have the flight time of the missiles ... largely enough for your opponent to warp, or repair himself
With good ship knowledge you can guess which damage type your enemy is most likely weak for. Also you can guess what NPCers are tanked for looking at the NPCs in that region. Its just that missile users (and with mainly caldari pilots) can chose these things while other races can't and will just have to do with what they have.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:35:00 -
[72]
Abaddon and Rokh are overpowered, Hyperion is not a proper blaster boat, Maelstrom is balanced.. depending on the layout. :|
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Cohkka
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:43:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kery Nysell I'm Caldari, so according to Noriath I'll always be a noob, but something struck me :
8 guns loaded with Javelin L ? The things that cut 10% from your shield and max speed for each gun loaded with them ?
I can't wait to see a Rokh with less shields than a Caracal, and the speed of a hauler ...
Yeah, uber damage at long range ... and that ammo just killed it's tanking bonus ... counterproductive ?
Same as "fast Minmatar" and hail ammo? Maybe you're not a nub, but at least get a clue before posting.
Simple answer: t2 ammo is broken, end of story.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:11:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol lol 8 turrets wonder how fast till that gets reduced to 6
Hopefully before Nik decides to collect on our bet
I may be having connection problems, but I'm here and I say pay up!!! ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here!
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Kazaam
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:14:00 -
[75]
Caldaris needed a gunship BS sized... every other size has one... frigs, cruisers, BC, AS and HAC in caldari have their gunship. The only one missing WAS that Rokh, and I'm glad I'll soon get my ass into it.
Missiles overpowered ? lol ? Did y'all ever bring a Raven in long range fleet battles ? All you do is unloading your ammo in space as when your omfgwtfoverpowered missiles get like 50kms away from your launchers, primary target ( which is like 150+ km away, basically ), is already history, and secondary is about to be it as well.
And for the useless whiners already complaining about non even released Battleships and the overpowerness of the Rokh ( which is actually to confirm ), you've got a choice : Either shut it or train Caldari Battleship to 5 -_- _________________________________________
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Zanarkand
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:23:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Zanarkand on 25/07/2006 23:25:20 Amarr tier 3: Armageddon and Apoc lose all of their value thanks to the bonuses/slot layouts, well, maybe except for beltratting...
Caldari tier 3: Everyone with who can use spike L should switch to Rokh as soon as it is realeased. You will get 250km optimal with just having bs3(most likely the skill requierment). And, please, tell me an alliance/corp/whatever to not say "train caldari BSlvl3" to any snipermegathorn pilot. Won't do any good to tempest/geddon users either.
Gallente tier3: I like the hull of Megathorn. I hope that megathorn stays as a blastership... but I guess I can't have everything.
Minmatar tier3: ...
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Stormhold
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:31:00 -
[77]
Like someone already pointed out - it hardly is overpowered. Yes, it is a better sniper than megathron etc, but not by too much better.
This is from someone who uses mega and will buy a Rokh for test atleast.
Also, we got no clue about pg/cpu yet.
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Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:48:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol lol 8 turrets wonder how fast till that gets reduced to 6
Hopefully before Nik decides to collect on our bet
I may be having connection problems, but I'm here and I say pay up!!!
I think you need to develope sudden and acute memory loss
PS: Bet debt paid.
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:49:00 -
[79]
Wow, all we need now is to be able to lock over 350km and we can do some damage. -----------------------------------------------
Knowing all, when all is unknown.
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Khal Grayrest
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:15:00 -
[80]
8 Turrets 5% shield resists Tons of CPU
Move over Apoc, the new mining king has arrived.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:31:00 -
[81]
8 turret hardpoints on the rokh will be fine......long as it requires the user to train Adv weapon upgrades to level 4-5 to fit 8x 425 Railgun IIs. Megathrons only require that skill trained to level 2 to fit a full rack of t2 425s and still have enough powergrid for 3x 1600mm plates. Long as the devs make it a pain (but possible) to fit that last T2 425 it'll be fine I think.
Also the rokh in fleet snipeing mode gets to deal with a HP tank that's split about 50/50 between sheilds and armor. Apoc pilots should enjoy shooting at that with beams, Minmatar pilots may not because tremor's explosive damage.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:32:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Eximius Josari PS: Bet debt paid.
Thank you!
Sadly, I can't log on to see it...with my internet down, all I have is my Pocket PC, and this thing can't run EVE ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here!
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:50:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Originally by: Eximius Josari PS: Bet debt paid.
Thank you!
Sadly, I can't log on to see it...with my internet down, all I have is my Pocket PC, and this thing can't run EVE
Wallet
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Kery Nysell
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:56:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Kery Nysell I'm Caldari, so according to Noriath I'll always be a noob, but something struck me :
8 guns loaded with Javelin L ? The things that cut 10% from your shield and max speed for each gun loaded with them ?
I can't wait to see a Rokh with less shields than a Caracal, and the speed of a hauler ...
Yeah, uber damage at long range ... and that ammo just killed it's tanking bonus ... counterproductive ?
Same as "fast Minmatar" and hail ammo? Maybe you're not a nub, but at least get a clue before posting.
Simple answer: t2 ammo is broken, end of story.
Thanks for the clue, but there's no need to be so aggressive ...
I KNOW that T2 ammo is broken at best, a total joke at the worst, but I saw 4 posts in this thread saying "this ship will load Javelin and wtfbbqpwn everything and sniper ranges", and I felt like reminding those posters that Javelin ammo kills Caldari ships ... my poor Harpy has half the shields of my Condor when I load that smelly crap in my rails ...
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welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:36:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Originally by: HippoKing You can get 230km optimal with a megathron IIRC, which does more damage.
Not going to be nerfed IMO.
The rokh will easily outdamage the mega for long range battles, trust me.
And if you dont believe me, do some math. For example, one gun more is about 15% extra damage only that, and you will be able to fit better ammo (throw away spike) and fit more mag stabs.
One extra t2 magstab is 20%, one more gun is 15%, better ammo (for example javelin instead of spike) is 40% more damage. Even with gallente battleship to level 10, the Rokh will outdamage the mega.
No it won't.
Mega with 7 turrets and damage bonus is equivalent to 8.75 turrets.
The Rokh with 8 turrets and no damage bonus is equivalent to 8 turrets.
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DisposableAlt
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:39:00 -
[86]
Edited by: DisposableAlt on 26/07/2006 01:42:35 Edited by: DisposableAlt on 26/07/2006 01:42:06 I think you guys are screaming for a nerf way too early.
Firstly, with the same skills and t2 ammo, 7x 425 II on a mega do more damage than 8x 425 II on a rokh. The rokh's big advantage there is that it doesn't have to fit many tracking mods, making it easier to fit mag stab IIs and whatever else in the lows. However, 8x 425mm IIs are not easy to fit, especially on a ship which will probably not have great grid, just like every other caldari ship. I think it is unlikely that the rokh will be able to field a very large tank with a full-on sniper setup.
Here is what it comes down to: the thron will do roughly 10% more damage between about 100 and 220 km. This is because with spike ammo, the thron has 8.75 effective guns versus 8 guns on the rohk. Between 100 and 0km, the rohk outdamages the thron, because it can use higher-damaging ammo, like javelin. However, javelin will seriously mess with a rohk: though it can reach about 80km (with three tracking mods), no ship tracking bonus and 25% penalty means it will be quite hard to hit anything that isn't a BS. As well, with 8 javelin-filled guns, the rohk will lose 57% of its shield HP. This means that its tank will be hard to fit with those big guns, and at close range will be less than half effective.
Overall, I think it is very premature to call it the "best fleet BS", because first, we don't know it's CPU/grid or slow layout, and secondly, because it really suffers on DPS to not have that damage bonus.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:53:00 -
[87]
Last I looked, Javelin reduces a Rokh's shield HP by 80% and its max velocity by 80%...both of which are important at close range...in other words, it's completely useless on a Rokh.
I think that's ANOTHER reason why Javelin needs to be fixed now. The fact that it works great on a Megathron (armor tank, hence shield HP is unimportant) but not at all on a Rokh gives the Megathron a stupid advantage. ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here!
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Khristopher
Legio I Mordu Cohort I
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:54:00 -
[88]
I can't wait. Caldari will finnaly have a nice gunboat and my gunnery skills will pay off. I went for rails over missiles when I started playing eve and after the Moa (yeah not so great) I had to switch it up to train for Gallente ships so I could get the megathron (my first battleship).
Now if only the eagle would get some love
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welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:56:00 -
[89]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 26/07/2006 01:56:40
Originally by: DisposableAlt ...The rokh's big advantage there is that it doesn't have to fit many tracking mods, making it easier to fit mag stab IIs and whatever else in the lows. However, 8x 425mm IIs are not easy to fit, especially on a ship which will probably not have great grid, just like every other caldari ship. I think it is unlikely that the rokh will be able to field a very large tank with a full-on sniper setup....
Exactly, the "But you won't have to fit tracking mods!! (****, whine, rabble)!" argument is ill thought.
This ships probably going to get 5 or 6 lows and bugger all grid (do we know the layout yet?). I'm thinking PDU's in the lows won't be happening if you want 8 turrets and damage mods. You're gonna have to use 2 RCU's and 1 PDU.
No PDU's on a Caldari ship is severely detrimental to its tank, especially as it's going to need cap to fire too.
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Foulis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:57:00 -
[90]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: RoMUF what happend to booby?
It was determined that at battleship size, boobies cause back and balance problems. They will most likely be battlecruiser size instead.
Completely off topic the ship size to abbreviated cup size is backwards in eve...
Battleship - BB(or BS) Cruiser - C Destroyer - D Frigate - F
Wait a second.... what is this topic about? ----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
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