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SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:33:00 - [61] Edited by: SengH on 26/07/2006 13:33:19 Originally by: Wrayeth /signed on behalf of the 8/7/4 (8/7/5?) lobby. It needs the 7 midslots, otherwise it will be less than useless with autocannons - and its uber tank is the only hope for autocannon boats now that the hyperion has arrived. AC tempest? Dead. CCP might go totally nutz and go 8/8/4.... Although that would be hilarious and after seeing that EVE-TV vid of the devs right before the finals, its easily possible the day after.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:38:00 - [62] Originally by: SengH CCP might go totally nutz and go 8/8/4.... Although that would be hilarious and after seeing that EVE-TV vid of the devs right before the finals, its easily possible the day after. ok now i go for 8/8/4... it will be quite an interesting ship
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:41:00 - [63] lol you guys have yet to give a good reason as to why it should have 7 med slots. i know Tux has enough sense to give it 6 meds. He stated it's gonna be slower than tempest probably in the area of the Raven, therefore i suggest you adapt just like every other Caldari has and rely on your gang mates to tackle. Btw, 6 meds with a tanking bonus is pretty damn good dont get greedy. Caldari - BS idea
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:43:00 - [64] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 13:44:15 Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol lol you guys have yet to give a good reason as to why it should have 7 med slots. i know Tux has enough sense to give it 6 meds. He stated it's gonna be slower than tempest probably in the area of the Raven, therefore i suggest you adapt just like every other Caldari has and rely on your gang mates to tackle. Btw, 6 meds with a tanking bonus is pretty damn good dont get greedy. There have been given many reasons already. One is that since this is not a missile ship, it will need a extra slot for the AB/MWD to get in range/keep range and keep the transversal down. None of that matters on a Raven which can just sit there happily and shoot at everything at 0-150km away. But if the ship gets 6 mediums and 6 lows, ill happily armor tank it and make it a pvp monster with ecm on top. Edit: And look at the Rokh. I mean... just look at it and come back here and say this ship is too good with a straight face. I dare you to. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:43:00 - [65] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol lol you guys have yet to give a good reason as to why it should have 7 med slots. i know Tux has enough sense to give it 6 meds. He stated it's gonna be slower than tempest probably in the area of the Raven, therefore i suggest you adapt just like every other Caldari has and rely on your gang mates to tackle. Btw, 6 meds with a tanking bonus is pretty damn good dont get greedy. Amarr get 8 lows with a resist bonus and your calling 6 meds outrageous?.
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:46:00 - [66] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol lol you guys have yet to give a good reason as to why it should have 7 med slots. i know Tux has enough sense to give it 6 meds. He stated it's gonna be slower than tempest probably in the area of the Raven, therefore i suggest you adapt just like every other Caldari has and rely on your gang mates to tackle. Btw, 6 meds with a tanking bonus is pretty damn good dont get greedy. actually there have been several good reasons stated why mael needs 7 an ac boat NEEDS a propulsion mod or its useless, a missile boat doesnt (thats already 1 slot less) an artillery boat needs tracking comps, a missile boat doesnt (1-2 less slots) an ac boat also should have a webber (again missile boat dont) there were more of them, read the maelstrom thread and you should find them all Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:50:00 - [67] Edited by: SengH on 26/07/2006 13:50:51 Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 13:44:15 Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol lol you guys have yet to give a good reason as to why it should have 7 med slots. i know Tux has enough sense to give it 6 meds. He stated it's gonna be slower than tempest probably in the area of the Raven, therefore i suggest you adapt just like every other Caldari has and rely on your gang mates to tackle. Btw, 6 meds with a tanking bonus is pretty damn good dont get greedy. There have been given many reasons already. One is that since this is not a missile ship, it will need a extra slot for the AB/MWD to get in range/keep range and keep the transversal down. None of that matters on a Raven which can just sit there happily and shoot at everything at 0-150km away. But if the ship gets 6 mediums and 6 lows, ill happily armor tank it and make it a pvp monster with ecm on top. Edit: And look at the Rokh. I mean... just look at it and come back here and say this ship is too good with a straight face. I dare you to. I think the main problem is that the rohk has NO SHORTCOMMINGS in its design. Its a longrange railboat, tracking doesnt matter so that frees up mids. It has a resist bonus so it can passive tank decently and doesnt need to worry about tanking. It excells in its role where all the other BSes are pretty halfassed, theres something that can compete with it in that role. The rohk is alone in its fleet sniper platform.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:04:00 - [68] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 14:05:50 Originally by: SengH I think the main problem is that the rohk has NO SHORTCOMMINGS in its design. Its a longrange railboat, tracking doesnt matter so that frees up mids. It has a resist bonus so it can passive tank decently and doesnt need to worry about tanking. It excells in its role where all the other BSes are pretty halfassed, theres something that can compete with it in that role. The rohk is alone in its fleet sniper platform. Well... its right up there with the Raven, being uber. At least we will get to see lots of these ships in the next tournament instead of Ravens. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:10:00 - [69] No where in my post did i mention abaddon or rokh. Both Abaddon and Rokh weapon systems use cap, Minmatar do not. With 7 mids, a tank bonus, and no cap use for weapons you don't think it's tank will be tad overpowered? If someone wants to calculate cap use of 8 Hybrids that would be great. Caldari - BS idea
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:12:00 - [70] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol lol you guys have yet to give a good reason as to why it should have 7 med slots. i know Tux has enough sense to give it 6 meds. He stated it's gonna be slower than tempest probably in the area of the Raven, therefore i suggest you adapt just like every other Caldari has and rely on your gang mates to tackle. Btw, 6 meds with a tanking bonus is pretty damn good dont get greedy. actually there have been several good reasons stated why mael needs 7 an ac boat NEEDS a propulsion mod or its useless, a missile boat doesnt (thats already 1 slot less) an artillery boat needs tracking comps, a missile boat doesnt (1-2 less slots) an ac boat also should have a webber (again missile boat dont) there were more of them, read the maelstrom thread and you should find them all It's not an AC boat, and forget tackling with this ship. You guys are complaining about the design of shield tanked ships not just problems with the Maelstrom. Caldari - BS idea
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:12:00 - [71] Edited by: SengH on 26/07/2006 14:13:11 Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol No where in my post did i mention abaddon or rokh. Both Abaddon and Rokh weapon systems use cap, Minmatar do not. With 7 mids, a tank bonus, and no cap use for weapons you don't think it's tank will be tad overpowered? If someone wants to calculate cap use of 8 Hybrids that would be great. Cap power relays for the rohk. Its pretty much set in stone that the abaddon is a injector boat, so it only needs 1 mid for that. For the rohk at the ranges its sniping at, cap isnt an issue as it doesnt need to tank.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:13:00 - [72] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol No where in my post did i mention abaddon or rokh. Both Abaddon and Rokh weapon systems use cap, Minmatar do not. With 7 mids, a tank bonus, and no cap use for weapons you don't think it's tank will be tad overpowered? If someone wants to calculate cap use of 8 Hybrids that would be great. No, I dont think it will be overpowered. I think it might actually lose horribly to the rest of the new battleships on the test server. We will see. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:14:00 - [73] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol No where in my post did i mention abaddon or rokh. Both Abaddon and Rokh weapon systems use cap, Minmatar do not. With 7 mids, a tank bonus, and no cap use for weapons you don't think it's tank will be tad overpowered? If someone wants to calculate cap use of 8 Hybrids that would be great. have you ever had a look at what **ty cap minnies get? the fact that our guns dont use cap is compensated by truly aweful cap of our ships Originally by:** Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:21:00 - [74] Originally by: SengH Edited by: SengH on 26/07/2006 14:13:11 Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol No where in my post did i mention abaddon or rokh. Both Abaddon and Rokh weapon systems use cap, Minmatar do not. With 7 mids, a tank bonus, and no cap use for weapons you don't think it's tank will be tad overpowered? If someone wants to calculate cap use of 8 Hybrids that would be great. Cap power relays for the rohk. Its pretty much set in stone that the abaddon is a injector boat, so it only needs 1 mid for that. For the rohk at the ranges its sniping at, cap isnt an issue as it doesnt need to tank. I agree im not gonna active tank it, but passive tanks are not as strong. The Abaddon uses so much cap im not even sure that one cap injector is going to be good enough without cap mods in low. In either case we will have to actually test them before complaining. Caldari - BS idea
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:22:00 - [75] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 26/07/2006 14:23:42 Raven: Preferred Weapon: Missiles Medslots: 6 Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 0 Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 0 Effective Tanking Meds: 6 Rokh: Preferred Weapon: Rails Medslots: 7(?) Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 1 Sensor Booster, 1 Tracking Comp Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 1 Invul Field Effective Tanking Meds: 6 Maelstrom: Preferred Weapon: ACs Medslots: 7(?) Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 1 AB/MWD, 1 Web Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 1 Shield Boost Amp Effective Tanking Meds: 6 I don't know, but to me that seems quite well balanced. Of course the average Caldari doesn't know the meaning of that word --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:22:00 - [76] Originally by: Tiuwaz Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol No where in my post did i mention abaddon or rokh. Both Abaddon and Rokh weapon systems use cap, Minmatar do not. With 7 mids, a tank bonus, and no cap use for weapons you don't think it's tank will be tad overpowered? If someone wants to calculate cap use of 8 Hybrids that would be great. have you ever had a look at what ****ty cap minnies get? the fact that our guns dont use cap is compensated by truly aweful cap of our ships less cap, best cap recharge time Caldari - BS idea
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:28:00 - [77] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 26/07/2006 14:23:42 Raven: Preferred Weapon: Missiles Medslots: 6 Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 0 Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 0 Effective Tanking Meds: 6 Rokh: Preferred Weapon: Rails Medslots: 7(?) Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 1 Sensor Booster, 1 Tracking Comp Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 1 Invul Field Effective Tanking Meds: 6 Maelstrom: Preferred Weapon: ACs Medslots: 7(?) Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 1 AB/MWD, 1 Web Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 1 Shield Boost Amp Effective Tanking Meds: 6 I don't know, but to me that seems quite well balanced. Of course the average Caldari doesn't know the meaning of that word Nice way of looking at it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:31:00 - [78] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol less cap, best cap recharge time still less cap regen than the others but wouldnt 7 med on the rokh be overpowered then aswell? the rokh may have to use some cap for railguns but at the same time its bonus is passive and effective all time Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 26/07/2006 14:23:42 Raven: Preferred Weapon: Missiles Medslots: 6 Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 0 Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 0 Effective Tanking Meds: 6 Rokh: Preferred Weapon: Rails Medslots: 7(?) Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 1 Sensor Booster, 1 Tracking Comp Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 1 Invul Field Effective Tanking Meds: 6 Maelstrom: Preferred Weapon: ACs Medslots: 7(?) Neccessary Medslot Weapon support modules: 1 AB/MWD, 1 Web Medslot Item equivalent from ship bonus: 1 Shield Boost Amp Effective Tanking Meds: 6 I don't know, but to me that seems quite well balanced. Of course the average Caldari doesn't know the meaning of that word we don't know if the Rokh will need to sacrifice a mid for a tracking comp, with it's range mod it could be possible it can fet all it needs in low slots so i will say 7-8 actual tanking mods also it can chose to passive tank and at range it doesn't need as much cap as a close range ship (who needs to use ab/mwd and is subject to nos) the Maelstrom instead will need to fit an active setup and will have to fit for sure a cap inj putting its evaluated tanking med slots at 5
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:41:00 - [80] Originally by: Dixon Edited by: Dixon on 26/07/2006 14:40:02 Originally by: SengH I think the main problem is that the rohk has NO SHORTCOMMINGS in its design. Its a longrange railboat, tracking doesnt matter so that frees up mids. It has a resist bonus so it can passive tank decently and doesnt need to worry about tanking. It excells in its role where all the other BSes are pretty halfassed, theres something that can compete with it in that role. The rohk is alone in its fleet sniper platform. The Rokh will use railguns. Railguns use lots of CAP. The Rokh has no damage bonus. Rails have crappy damage. The Rokh will use a sheild tank. Sheild tanks use lots of CAP. The Maelstrom uses Projectiles. Projectiles use no CAP. Projectiles with RoF bonus do more damage (with more versitile damage types also) than railguns. The Maelstrom will have a huge alpha and 100% cap to it's certain-to-be-great tank. The Maelstrom will be great at artys.. don't know about autocannons. But it will have a strong tank. The Rokh will probably outrange it but it will never outdamage it... Both ships will be good. They will not be the same, but both will be good... goooood Rails with t2 ammo does not have crappy damage. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dixon	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:46:00 - [81] Originally by: Jim McGregor Rails with t2 ammo does not have crappy damage. Compared to what? First of all... don't compare things with t2 ammo, they are unbalanced to say the least. And I might add that railguns have the lowest DPS of all guns, t2 ammo or not. Try comparing t2 1400s with t2 425. They have better optimal but worse damage, that's just a fact...
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:49:00 - [82] Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Jim McGregor Rails with t2 ammo does not have crappy damage. Compared to what? First of all... don't compare things with t2 ammo, they are unbalanced to say the least. And I might add that railguns have the lowest DPS of all guns, t2 ammo or not. Try comparing t2 1400s with t2 425. They have better optimal but worse damage, that's just a fact... Naah, you started this argument that railguns have crappy damage, so you run some comparisons if you want to convince me. And t2 ammo is reality. Everybody will use it, so its highly relevant. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:50:00 - [83] Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol lol you guys have yet to give a good reason as to why it should have 7 med slots. i know Tux has enough sense to give it 6 meds. He stated it's gonna be slower than tempest probably in the area of the Raven, therefore i suggest you adapt just like every other Caldari has and rely on your gang mates to tackle. Huh? I do my own tackling in my raven (assuming I can lock the target before it warps). Quote: Btw, 6 meds with a tanking bonus is pretty damn good dont get greedy. It's not about being greedy, it's about the thing being useable at all. With the introduction of the hyperion, the days of the AC tempest are effectively over. Period. However, the tank on the maelstrom might allow it to stand up to the hyperion and the blasterthron...IF it has 7 mids. If it can't fit the following midslot setup, you might as well not use autocannons at all on any of the Minmatar battleships: 1 quad LiF MWD 1 XL C5-L or tech II shield booster 1 20km scrambler 1 web 1 heavy electrochem cap injector 2 invuln II The raven has no need of either the MWD or the web, but does have need of a boost amp (which the maelstrom has built-in). -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.26 14:55:00 - [84] Originally by: Dixon The Rokh will use railguns. Railguns use lots of CAP. The Rokh has no damage bonus. Rails have crappy damage. The Rokh will use a sheild tank. Sheild tanks use lots of CAP. The Maelstrom uses Projectiles. Projectiles use no CAP. Projectiles with RoF bonus do more damage (with more versitile damage types also) than railguns. The Maelstrom will have a huge alpha and 100% cap to it's certain-to-be-great tank. not really proj have poor dps, way lower than hybrids so proj + rof is more or less equal to rails Rokh can also passive tank and still get benefit of its shield bonus, in fleet (expecially with lag) passive shield will be way better than active also passive tank doesn't use any cap so no big problems to fire rails. for small engagements the range bonus of the Rokh can be usefull to stay outside of enemy range and will be able to chose between active and passive tank as personal preference. Mael instead is forced to active tank to get use of its shield bonus so a lot of cap compsumption/management... it can work in small engagements but for fleet will be not a very good solution and whitout the shield bonus the tempest can do more or less the same things for a lower cost.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:01:00 - [85] Originally by: Kaeten im sorry but a 8/7/5 slot would jsut be too uber, why? Would make it into a raven basiclly with guns. Whats wrong with this? high slots: guns med slots: UBER TANK low slots: 3x dmg mods with cpu n ** a ganking mother***** tanking ship. no thank you 1) missiles > ACs 2) 8 ACs with a RoF bonus will chew ammo fast 3) ACs need to dictate range especially with barrage 4) ACs are by design have synergy with armor tanking Please know what you are talking about before posting plz. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:04:00 - [86] Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Jim McGregor Rails with t2 ammo does not have crappy damage. Compared to what? First of all... don't compare things with t2 ammo, they are unbalanced to say the least. And I might add that railguns have the lowest DPS of all guns, t2 ammo or not. Try comparing t2 1400s with t2 425. They have better optimal but worse damage, that's just a fact... 425mm Rails have better DoT then 1400s. Sorry but there are too many graphs in this forum to prove you wrong. Search feature 4tw. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:05:00 - [87] Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Jim McGregor Rails with t2 ammo does not have crappy damage. Compared to what? First of all... don't compare things with t2 ammo, they are unbalanced to say the least. And I might add that railguns have the lowest DPS of all guns, t2 ammo or not. Try comparing t2 1400s with t2 425. They have better optimal but worse damage, that's just a fact... Pass the pipe please cus your smoking something good.
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:13:00 - [88] Originally by: Dixon Edited by: Dixon on 26/07/2006 14:40:02 Originally by: SengH I think the main problem is that the rohk has NO SHORTCOMMINGS in its design. Its a longrange railboat, tracking doesnt matter so that frees up mids. It has a resist bonus so it can passive tank decently and doesnt need to worry about tanking. It excells in its role where all the other BSes are pretty halfassed, theres something that can compete with it in that role. The rohk is alone in its fleet sniper platform. The Rokh will use railguns. Railguns use lots of CAP. The Rokh has no damage bonus. Rails have crappy damage. The Rokh will use a sheild tank. Sheild tanks use lots of CAP. The Maelstrom uses Projectiles. Projectiles use no CAP. Projectiles with RoF bonus do more damage (with more versitile damage types also) than railguns. The Maelstrom will have a huge alpha and 100% cap to it's certain-to-be-great tank. The Maelstrom will be great at artys.. don't know about autocannons. But it will have a strong tank. The Rokh will probably outrange it but it will never outdamage it... Both ships will be good. They will not be the same, but both will be good... goooood The 8 rails on the rokh outdamges the 8 howitzers on the mealstrom I guess your new, so I explain it for you: Lasers without ship bonus: 1 Hybrids without ship bonus: 1 Projectiles without ship bonus: 0 I.e. Minmatar ships have always 1 ROF bonus for their projectiles, it makes up for the lower base damage projectiles have. Stabber: 1 (ROF) + 0 (gun) = 1 damage bonus Thorax: 1 (damage) + 1 (gun) = 2 damage bonuses Maller: 0 + 1 (gun) = 1 damage bonus Rupture: 2 (ROF + damage) + 0 (gun) = 2 damage bonuses Omen: 1 (ROF) + 1 (gun) = 2 damage bonuses each guns are balanced around this. There are always the heavy hitting ships (2 damage bonuses) and the more all around ships (1 damage bonus) ingame. Exceptions are the astarte, zealot and some other tech2 ships. Astarte has 3 damage bonuses, same for zealot. So afterall, when you check, the Mealstrom just comes with 1 real bonus, and thats the shield boosting bonus, the other bonus (ROF) is just there to make projectiles usefull and stops us from fitting rails and lasers for better damage. In comparison, the Rokh has 1 damage bonus aswell (gun) and 10% and resistances, which is better than just the shield boosting bonus. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.07.26 15:48:00 - [89] Edited by: xeom on 26/07/2006 15:49:07 Errm,really 7 mid slots is overpowered guys. 3xInvifield 1x-XLbooster 1xCap booster That already beats any raven's tank.Hell it is the best shield tank ingame(non-cap). Now the next slot could simply have a MWD to get into AC range. Disrupter and web you say? Welcome to the world of shield tanking guys.From the few times ive flown the tempest ive never had any trouble hitting anything battleship size.Anything smaller then that yea you are going to need a web yea.So you should have to sacrifice a mid slot,a battleship is not a solo pwn mobile.And should have some support flying around with it,even more so when its a shield tank. 8/6/6 or 5 is the only real option.You should get 7 mid slots just so you don't have to deal with the problems every other shield tanker has to deal with.Yes the raven can hit any target and never miss at great ranges but so what? Its so stupidly slow who wants to take one on a OP.And if they remove instas it should be even worse.I personaly am not gana wait for a ship that goes 140 m/s as we are trying to hunt.And fitting a MWD and tank on it really is not possible. But even with 6 slots the Maelstrom will be able to do that. BTW i fly pure minmatar.And am training up for the sliepnir,but even i know this thing is overpowered with 7 slots. CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:03:00 - [90] ehm to get in range is not that usefull if the opponent get out of range because you have not a webber and a slow ship or we should keep the mwd/ab always on? also this is a ship focused on tanking so it should have a better tank than ships focused on something else (as a raven or even the new caldari who is primary a railgun boat)

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