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Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.26 11:59:00 - [31] Originally by: Dethis Edited by: Dethis on 26/07/2006 11:55:51 Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Dethis Ravens not a shield tank o.O I think he means the Raven isn't a dedicated shield tanker, i.e. had no talking bonuses unlike the Maelstrom and Rokh Ahh that would make sense. 8/7/4 wouldnt be to bad as long as cpu/pg wouldnt allow you to fit tank + gank yep thats about it, thank you High-Sec Piracy Recruitment
Kery Nysell Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 11:59:00 - [32] Originally by: Ath Amon 8/7/5 is quite needed for this ship... is not a caldari one that doesn't need webbers or AB also raven is tier2 and is not a shield tank while this ship is designed to be a tier3 shield tank... is natural that it should be able to fit an efficent active tank and for that at least 7 mids are needed... if it will be 8/6/6 then the shield bonus should be removed for something else... like +5% res or +10% shield hp (with possibility to have a good passive shield tank) or something totally unrelated to shield as TP bonus!!! (ok maybe not TP :p) Whoa, someone even more clueless than me ... FYI, the Raven IS a shield tanker, and a damn good one at that, and the future Tier 3 BS will need a speed booster and maybe a webber, since it will use turrets and not missiles ...
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Dethis Originally by: Ath Amon 8/7/5 is quite needed for this ship... is not a caldari one that doesn't need webbers or AB also raven is tier2 and is not a shield tank while this ship is designed to be a tier3 shield tank... is natural that it should be able to fit an efficent active tank and for that at least 7 mids are needed... if it will be 8/6/6 then the shield bonus should be removed for something else... like +5% res or +10% shield hp (with possibility to have a good passive shield tank) or something totally unrelated to shield as TP bonus!!! (ok maybe not TP :p) Ravens not a shield tank o.O i meant a dedicated shield tank boat sure it shield tank, but is a missile boat that use shield this ship instead is designed mostly as a tanker so is obvious that its shield tanking should be way superior than a raven... if then we put in that raven is t2 and this ship is t3 then we have not even to try to compare them. ahhh and not every turret ship do uber damage... proj have quite a crappy dps, comparable to missiles... but whitout their versatility
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Kery Nysell Whoa, someone even more clueless than me ... FYI, the Raven IS a shield tanker, and a damn good one at that, and the future Tier 3 BS will need a speed booster and maybe a webber, since it will use turrets and not missiles ... Read what has already been posted in this thread - it's pretty obvious he means it isn't a dedicated shield tanker like the Rokh and Maelstrom (i.e. no shield tanking bonuses). TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Kery Nysell Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Kery Nysell Whoa, someone even more clueless than me ... FYI, the Raven IS a shield tanker, and a damn good one at that, and the future Tier 3 BS will need a speed booster and maybe a webber, since it will use turrets and not missiles ... Read what has already been posted in this thread - it's pretty obvious he means it isn't a dedicated shield tanker like the Rokh and Maelstrom (i.e. no shield tanking bonuses). After the fourth clarifying post, yes. My sincerest apologies.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:06:00 - [36] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 12:06:01 Personally i dont think the Maelstrom will be uber at all with 7 med slots. Seriously. It will be a great tanker if you have dedicated tacklers, but its just as vulnerable to nos and jamming as everyone else. As soon as ecm is fixed, this ship will be like a small nighthawk that has to slowly try to get in range and consider tracking to get a kill. It will not be uber. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Marcus Alkhaar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:11:00 - [37] Sarmaul, this is going to make an awesome Arty platform if it can get enough grid 8x 1400mm II 1x XLBooster II 1x EM Hard II 1x Kin hard II 1x Therm hard II 1x Invul Field II / Boost amp 1x 20km Scrambler 1x Heavy Cap injector (booster will run for as long there cap charges) 2-3x Gyro stab II 1-2x PDS/RCU II (Grid) 1x Damage control it will boost 825 Shield hp every 5th second (with a boost amp its 1072 shield hp) This is for smaller sized gangs, fighting at gate/station at a relative "close up" engagement (5-30km) ---------------------------------------------- Marcus Alkhaar > so you're saying that I got the Pottsey-stamp? Pottsey > first class stamp Collector edition. Marcus Alkhaar > <--- Dances
Sarmaul 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:12:00 - [38] a proper tanked arti platform would be nice too, seeing as Caldari get their tanked rail platform :) TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust -
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:12:00 - [39] Not sure why everybody is adressing Sarmuel with their posts. What about the rest of us... Anyway, that artillery setup looks cool if it fits. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Amy Wang	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:13:00 - [40] Edited by: Amy Wang on 26/07/2006 12:16:33 Edited by: Amy Wang on 26/07/2006 12:14:58 Problem is: The 7th mid on the Mael makes the difference between useful (but in no way uber) and useless. With a 8/6/6 or 8/6/5 layout, there is really no real point to chose it over the tempest or phoon. For long range the tempest with its double bonus is slightly worse (7,5 turrets vs. 8 turrets on mael) but the tier 3 will be much more expensive and 2 additional t2 1400 cost quite a bit on top of that also. Paying 50 Mil on top for a mere 1/16 damage increase? Dont think so. For short range the Mael lacks in speed and manouverability compared to both the phoon and the pest and both of these ships will even outdamage it very likely, at least the pest will due to 7,5 turrets plus 2 utility slots for torps/nos/etc. The only thing that remains for the Mael would be a superior tank, which can only be realised with 7 mid slots or even 8. In fact if the Mael is to be the best non capital tanker (see dev blog) it should get 7 med slots if the Rohk gets 6 (as it also gets a tanking bonus, so that evens out) and should get even 8 med if the Rohk gets 7 meds. Without at least 7 meds you could as well save you the effort and dont implement the Mael at all tbh.
Tiuwaz Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Jim McGregor Not sure why everybody is adressing Sarmuel with their posts. What about the rest of us... Anyway, that artillery setup looks cool if it fits. sarm got sunglasses Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:16:00 - [42] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 12:16:57 Originally by: Tiuwaz sarm got sunglasses /me starting new char to get respect. Edit: By the way, I wouldnt mind if the minnie had gotten the hyperion and the gallente had gotten the maelstrom. A fast, agile autocannon platform with a damage bonus... yummie. So i dont really see any reason to whine for the gallente. At all. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Akip Clone Army	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:19:00 - [43] Originally by: Sarmaul <3 the Maelstrom, but would it please be possible to reassure us that it's going to get enough midslots (i.e. 7) to be used properly. 8/7/4 would be lovely if you're going to stick with the same amount of slots, if not 8/7/5. /singed -------- Akip Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Watch Post, wrecking for 1557.5 damage.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:21:00 - [44] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 12:16:57 Originally by: Tiuwaz sarm got sunglasses /me starting new char to get respect. Edit: By the way, I wouldnt mind if the minnie had gotten the hyperion and the gallente had gotten the maelstrom. A fast, agile autocannon platform with a damage bonus... yummie. So i dont really see any reason to whine for the gallente. At all. i like the hyperion a lot... the only problem is that it had not worked with ACs... too low damage... basically you run and get in range to get wtfpwnd...
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 12:16:57 Originally by: Tiuwaz sarm got sunglasses /me starting new char to get respect. Edit: By the way, I wouldnt mind if the minnie had gotten the hyperion and the gallente had gotten the maelstrom. A fast, agile autocannon platform with a damage bonus... yummie. So i dont really see any reason to whine for the gallente. At all. I have to agree Jim, the Gallente get a fast and agile ship. We get a fat shield tanker (thats fat not phat). I seem to remember MWD cap bonuses are Minnie racial ( vindi + vigi). These Gallente fools are gonna stomp all over our crappy dps and now we're slower than them.... Disappointed to say the least
Ozzie Asrail Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:27:00 - [46] Originally by: Amy Wang Edited by: Amy Wang on 26/07/2006 12:14:58 The only thing that remains for the Mael would be a superior tank, which can only be realised with 7 mid slots or even 8. In fact if the Mael is to be the best non capital tanker (see dev blog) it should get 7 med slots if the Rohk gets 6 (as it also gets a tanking bonus, so that evens out) and should get even 8 med if the Rohk gets 7 meds. Why should the Mael get +1 mids over the caldari "so that evens out..." wtf. And the blog said it'd boost the most not tank the most. A 6 slot tank is certainly not usless, 6 slot + boost bonus is spanking. web and scram mean nothing since every sheild tanked ship needs to drop tank for utility and i highly doubt that the new battleships will be ballenced around being solopwnmobiles. -----
Severa Crest Railgun Voodoo II	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:31:00 - [47] Edited by: Severa Crest on 26/07/2006 12:31:48 NVM
Blind Man Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:34:00 - [48] must be 7 mids.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:35:00 - [49] Just look at the Rokh post and come back here and say Maelstrom is too good. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
nahtoh Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:40:00 - [50] Edited by: nahtoh on 26/07/2006 12:41:18 Originally by: Severa Crest Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 12:16:57 Originally by: Tiuwaz sarm got sunglasses /me starting new char to get respect. Edit: By the way, I wouldnt mind if the minnie had gotten the hyperion and the gallente had gotten the maelstrom. A fast, agile autocannon platform with a damage bonus... yummie. So i dont really see any reason to whine for the gallente. At all. I have to agree Jim, the Gallente get a fast and agile ship. We get a fat shield tanker (thats fat not phat). I seem to remember MWD cap bonuses are Minnie racial ( vindi + vigi). These Gallente fools are gonna stomp all over our crappy dps and now we're slower than them.... Disappointed to say the least Ummmm where you getting Minnie ships with a MWD cap bonus? I do think 7 meds is pushing it, you already get a free boast amp with BS lvl5... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:50:00 - [51] another thing you might wanna consider is that minnies have the lousiest cap of any race. Also the fact that the BS is boosting just the same amt as most minnie T2 BCs out there is kidna depressing.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:55:00 - [52] Originally by: SengH another thing you might wanna consider is that minnies have the lousiest cap of any race. Also the fact that the BS is boosting just the same amt as most minnie T2 BCs out there is kidna depressing. Its the same with the resistance amount on the rokh, its taken from the Ferox. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 12:58:00 - [53] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: SengH another thing you might wanna consider is that minnies have the lousiest cap of any race. Also the fact that the BS is boosting just the same amt as most minnie T2 BCs out there is kidna depressing. Its the same with the resistance amount on the rokh, its taken from the Ferox. Yeah but the BS has higher Base shields than the BC which makes the bonus effective from the start. And you need to fit a shieldbooster. Wonder why the gallente BC bonus wasnt carried over? Minnies were never supposed to be the "uber-tankers", and by RP wise Caldari are supposed to have the best shield tech. This BS doesnt make sense at all.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:03:00 - [54] Originally by: SengH Minnies were never supposed to be the "uber-tankers", and by RP wise Caldari are supposed to have the best shield tech. This BS doesnt make sense at all. Did you see the resistances on the rokh? Quite insane. So i dont think caldari need to worry. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Amy Wang	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:10:00 - [55] Originally by: nahtoh I do think 7 meds is pushing it, you already get a free boast amp with BS lvl5... Well, Rohk is getting a free invul. field, so whats your point again?
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:14:00 - [56] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: SengH Minnies were never supposed to be the "uber-tankers", and by RP wise Caldari are supposed to have the best shield tech. This BS doesnt make sense at all. Did you see the resistances on the rokh? Quite insane. So i dont think caldari need to worry about the 99% of minnies that cant afford crystal sets. Fixed. But truthfully, this BS doesnt make sense minnie philosophy wise. Supposed to be close range, but slow? What gap is this supposed to fill? Its not a npcing ship or a BS that solves minnies extreme tracking problems. It just doesnt make sense, seems like a failed attempt to make an apoc by the minnie engineers.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:25:00 - [57] Originally by: SengH But truthfully, this BS doesnt make sense minnie philosophy wise. Supposed to be close range, but slow? What gap is this supposed to fill? Its not a npcing ship or a BS that solves minnies extreme tracking problems. It just doesnt make sense, seems like a failed attempt to make an apoc by the minnie engineers. Well, personally i would have loved if minnie had gotten the hyperion. They dont even seem to like it, so they might as well give it to us. But seriously... a faster, lighter version of the Tempest with 8 turrets and a damage bonus would have been fantastic. Maybe they considered it, but it just was too good. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:27:00 - [58] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: SengH But truthfully, this BS doesnt make sense minnie philosophy wise. Supposed to be close range, but slow? What gap is this supposed to fill? Its not a npcing ship or a BS that solves minnies extreme tracking problems. It just doesnt make sense, seems like a failed attempt to make an apoc by the minnie engineers. Well, personally i would have loved if minnie had gotten the hyperion. They dont even seem to like it, so they might as well give it to us. But seriously... a faster, lighter version of the Tempest with 8 turrets and a damage bonus would have been fantastic. Maybe they considered it, but it just was too good. Nah I think they should just change it to 8x missle slots and give it a 5% launcher ROF. Keep the existing shield boost bonus. Then sit back and ignore the forums for a couple days and turn off their mailserver as the hordes of angry caldari storm it.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:29:00 - [59] Originally by: SengH Nah I think they should just change it to 8x missle slots and give it a 5% launcher ROF. Keep the existing shield boost bonus. Then sit back and ignore the forums for a couple days and turn off their mailserver as the hordes of angry caldari storm it. With 7 medium slots too? Yeah, that wouldnt be bad. Slightly overpowered. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Wrayeth PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.07.26 13:31:00 - [60] /signed on behalf of the 8/7/4 (8/7/5?) lobby. It needs the 7 midslots, otherwise it will be less than useless with autocannons - and its uber tank is the only hope for autocannon boats now that the hyperion has arrived. AC tempest? Dead. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"

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