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Bloggers #22, I have a Contract waiting in my C.R.O.T.C.H.?!?!?!?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Helison Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:17:00 - [61] Originally by: Za Po I'll be in the minority, but I think that no global market is a good idea. More opportunities for traders to work the differences between regions. Do you mean her market or contracts? Local escrows (and market) would be interesting, when there are nice differences in the prices, BUT: It doesn¦t make sense to compare the regions when all interesting stuff (at least on auctions) is avaible in Jita. It may be a bit better for other types of contract (i.e. sale of BPCs), but you won¦t see much auctions (faction stuff...) outside of the real hubs.
Scorpyn Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:27:00 - [62] Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/07/2006 23:34:17 Will it be possible to for example trade 1xMegathron for either 1xRaven OR 110M isk? Quote: For public contracts, the cost of setting up a contract is going to be proportional to the amount money you get for successfully completing it. The cost will also increase with the amount of time your contract is visible to others up to a maximum time of 1 week or thereabouts. Private contracts will be relatively cheap with just a few coins slipped to the guy at the SCC Contracts Bureau so he doesn't misplace the paperwork. How are you planning to make that fair to byom deals vs isk sells etc? btw I take it that the current market will remain as is?
Virtuozzo eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:32:00 - [63] Right, just did a bit of math. If I had done my most recent logistics trip with the contract system I would have needed 294 slots. Skills based. Why am I getting the idea we're losing touch with CCP :/ Virtuozzo RECRUITMENT TEASERS. Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!"
Emily Spankratchet Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:34:00 - [64] Originally by: Ogad and what nonsense is the 'freeform'? an simple evemail will have the same effect since the private contracts will not be 'on the record' anyway Good point. Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, freeform contracts will be the new escrow spam.
Scorpyn Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:37:00 - [65] Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Originally by: Ogad and what nonsense is the 'freeform'? an simple evemail will have the same effect since the private contracts will not be 'on the record' anyway Good point. Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, freeform contracts will be the new escrow spam. Not really, since it won't be available for public contracts. Should be a good way for those corps that want to use the contract system for keeping track of what ppl are doing for the corp etc.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:46:00 - [66] Good blog - frank and well written. Some great new features that I'm looking forward to, especially being able to track histories and use them to control internal alliance/corp standings, rewards and promotions. Some terrible features too though. For the love of god rethink the no-global issue. Your vision of how that will be "good" for the game is fundamentally flawed IMO. People want to have fun here, not have to station an alt in each of 12 regions and move everything that any numpty puts on the regional contract db to Jita to sell it properly.
Infinity Ziona Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:52:00 - [67] Contracts should not work in 0.0 space or if they do they should be system wide only.
Ogad	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:54:00 - [68] Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Originally by: Ogad and what nonsense is the 'freeform'? an simple evemail will have the same effect since the private contracts will not be 'on the record' anyway Good point. Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, freeform contracts will be the new escrow spam. Not really, since it won't be available for public contracts. Should be a good way for those corps that want to use the contract system for keeping track of what ppl are doing for the corp etc. There are already 2 systems in game doing exactly that - they're called 'notepad' and 'evemail'. what is the point of programming something that does nothing at all? a contract that can't be enforced in anyway is useless, it has the same value as a plain evemail. but that's not the problem with the shiny contract system, it's just a like a hifi for a deaf -doesn't harm but doesn't do anything either, just a waste of resources.
Scorpyn Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.27 23:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Ogad Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Originally by: Ogad and what nonsense is the 'freeform'? an simple evemail will have the same effect since the private contracts will not be 'on the record' anyway Good point. Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, freeform contracts will be the new escrow spam. Not really, since it won't be available for public contracts. Should be a good way for those corps that want to use the contract system for keeping track of what ppl are doing for the corp etc. There are already 2 systems in game doing exactly that - they're called 'notepad' and 'evemail'. what is the point of programming something that does nothing at all? a contract that can't be enforced in anyway is useless, it has the same value as a plain evemail. but that's not the problem with the shiny contract system, it's just a like a hifi for a deaf -doesn't harm but doesn't do anything either, just a waste of resources. If you use the contract system to keep track of what ppl are doing, then it makes perfect sense to add a freeform contract to cover anything that might not be possible to do by any other type of contract. There are corps out there that use similar things to give out promotions etc, it would be useful for them to get everything at the same place.
Hectic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 00:54:00 - [70] Woah this is dev blogs gone wild week. I like the changes... mostly. I dont like that we need skills to sell things through the 'new' escrow. Im not sure if it really is a good idea or not though, but ATM I think it may cause some problems not having a 'free' form of selling items like BPOs, and faction mods. RIP MGRL
Sha'Uri Dark Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:01:00 - [71] Edited by: Sha''Uri Dark on 28/07/2006 01:02:25 Welcome to the New Global Escrow. It's completey fee free, takes almost no skill to use and can be viewed from any, yes I said any, region.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:01:00 - [72] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 28/07/2006 01:02:34 I already put a rather long (and possibly confusing) whine in market discussion forum - here is another one: 1. Unless you make blobing up in a hub a bannable offense people will come to Jita to sell EVERYTHING that is uncommon. If they dont, they will notice that someone else will haul it to jita for a markup. If you nerf Jita, people will find another hub. If there is no other hub, people will just declare a system to be the new "contract" hub. Regional markets work for things like Caracals, and they will work great for caracal BPCs (which you sadly cannot sell via a market-like system). They dont work for items that appear for sale twice per week. 2. Proportional tax may seem "fair" - but people dont like "fairness" that costs them money. trading t2 BPOs and high end stuff will become even more of a hassle, as you cannot just "escrow" it over. You have to meet in person, or pay fees. If the fees are not an issue, just remove them to reduce wallet spam and DB entries. Of course it makes sense that you have to pay a proportional fee if you want to sell something, but people wont like it, and they will dodge it - a lot of people sell pirate implants (50-1000m) on escrow in jita, even though they have to refresh it every 3 hours - just to avoid the broker fees. I just put them on market, but i wont do that with a t2 BPO. 100m broker fee and 100m sales tax? no thanks. 3.It encourage alts on multiple accounts even more. No global trade encourages even more fake accounts who dont do anything but sit in hubs, provide a platform for "slots" (wether ME reseach, manufacturing jobs, trade orders, contract slots, possibly the new invention system, the most efficient way is to train lots of alts to get more slots), and depending on how messed up the contract system will be, afk travel to the different sale locations to claim the "escrows" and haul them over to jita so that the end user doesnt have to waste his time with afk traveling. Of course, it all depends on the numbers. By all precedents (Research and Production slots, sell orders) faceless alts will be the way to go. People like me will actually win (if we decide to stay around) because judging by this blog, trading classical "non-market" items will turn into a major pain. A pain that can be eased with lots of accounts dedicated to trading. I can see all important regions, you can only see Jita. Or waste 90 of your 120 daily eve minutes shopping for stuff. Escrow was a tool for global goods (officer / faction / t2 implants / BPOs) and comfortable transfer of assets (have stuff in 0.0 but are in empire - escrow it over to friend / corp / stranger who is there. Someone is selling something in Rens, but you are 20 jumps out? pay for it now, go fetch it later - thats how i have been operating for a long time - i can use alts to abuse the new contract system to be like the escrow of today, most probably cant). Of course, i make a lot of assumptions in my post - most of my predictions are moot if the parameters are lax enough. But i am pretty certain that i got the mindset of the people behind the changes - an improved escrow with filters and block (what everyone actually has been asking for), and maybe all the nice new shiney things on top would make the game too easy. Almost as easy as the readable font before RMR. And we dont want eazmode, do we? "Pain" and "frustration" should be playerdriven - and not a result of lag, bugs and a limited interface. Making it limited (and reliant on alt accounts) by design is pushing the MMORPG philosopy way too far. What do you gain by making me train up alts on 5 more accounts so that i can keep escrowing stuff like i used to? I lose personalty, you gain more cash. Just let me add GTCs to my account for improved skill training time (with skills to make it the equivalent of having 5 accounts) and scrap this "skill points for slots" nonsense altogether if you are that greedy.
davidwelsh Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:06:00 - [73] Everything looks great except one thing. No global contracts. Did we not learn from the whole YULAI incident and the lunacy that is JITA? This will make it a billion times worse. Eventually the whole of eve will gravitate toward a contract supersystem much much worse than Jita is today. You may as well just name one of the existing systems that is equally spaced from all the current trade hubs th "Contract Central" because that is what it will become. Other than that... Contracts look awesome.
Mitchman Omniscient Order Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:12:00 - [74] No global contracts??!?? That sucks. Otherwise, it looks good so far.
Kira Natel	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:38:00 - [75] About the non Global aspects; (puts on tinfoil hat) We all play on the same server but Devs want players to spread out (business point of view- how many players can we squash in per region). Ideally all to 0.0 but that won't ever happen. Too many failures on that front. Devs don't want players travelling all over. Stay in your region and do what you need to, to make a viable regional economy. Keeps the servers from overheating. Th only thing that will remain global is chat. Soon to come - toll gates charges at inter-regional gates? frigate - 10 mil cruiser 50 mil bs 100 mil. Stay in your region and believe us when we say you have an effect on the entire eve universe and that we all play in one game world. Sure we do. Ok tinfoil hat off. Well we'll have to see what's down the road, won't we?
Ogad	Posted - 2006.07.28 02:01:00 - [76] this system will kill the market for cheaper items as well: right now I can sell say a Domination smartbomb for 20mil in a few days, or a Raven BPC for 1-2 mil. With limited contract slots, even with 10 contracts at a time I wont make from these items more than a few mils per week, which totally sinks the trading profession. and i'm not even thinking about taxes, for what i sell they will be insignificant anyway in absolute terms. It's just the fact that you won't be able to sell enough cheap items to make a living from it. Add to this the insane travelling times you'll need to pick up stuff and there you have it - no time to do anything else in game and no money! I used to be quite proud of my milion sp invested in Trading but now seems a total waste. I can't think of any good reason for implementing most of these things with the contracts. It doesn't solve any CPU problems because of the huge hubs that will form and it won't be an efficient isk sink. For people that want orders visible only locally just add the posibility to set a 'visibility range'. Or even better make the market work for all the stuff that is in game, including researched BPCs and leave the contracts for auctions and other type of contracts. Eventually make it work more like the market: I can place 1 sell order with 10 similar implants, I still won't be happy but at least i'll have the choice of specialising in selling/buying just a few type of items.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.28 02:12:00 - [77] Originally by: Za Po I'll be in the minority, but I think that no global market is a good idea. More opportunities for traders to work the differences between regions. Nice theory. Same theory as the markets. Uhm...oh yea, the markeyts have concentrated to a few hubs. The same will happen here. Infinity Ziona, because? In general though, that's an extremely silly idea. They're a key part of the logistics system as escrow replacements, for starters. Sha'Uri Dark, yea, pretty much. Although CCP might close that...eh, a third party site will handle it. Perhaps Chribba will be interested. Certainly things like a proportional tax where you lose chunks of your profit margin on rarer items compared to today, along with tiny limits on the quantity you can have. It IS an extension of the market purely for items not currently sold on it. With all the limits that implies. It's not a seperate system at all, for trading. It's just lower limits and higher fees...highly undesireable. In other words, rather than replacing escrow it's the death of that entire concept in favour of forums and channels. Which are inherently even higher noise:signal for what people are looking for. I really didn't think that my enthusaism for contracts would be crushed like this. Ah well, anticipation is a mistake.
Infinity Ziona Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.28 02:18:00 - [78] Maya, because 0.0 is not civilized. I dont think 0.0 should be closed off empire for anybody. Whats the use of having 0.0 space if its got gate guns, market, escrow, rules and regulations? Might as well make all space 1.0 and be done with it.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.07.28 02:23:00 - [79] Heh. So basically anything beyond easy range of Empire shoulf be deleted, and it's pointless building anything out there? Interesting argument. I disagree. There are fixed areas with NPC stations. Outside those, PLAYERS build the infrastructure which powers 0.0 space... and contracts are a tool for helping to manage them.
Xelios Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 02:28:00 - [80] Maya just out of curiosity, do you ever think anything CCP does is a good idea? Seems like every time some new feature or patch comes out you're on the forums complaining about how stupid it is. And my CROTCH is acting up...
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:03:00 - [81] Finally, an end to scammers! Not a total end, but a wonderful feature that Escrow has needed since day 1: Filters!!!
Shakuul Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:24:00 - [82] I like the filtering idea. If you are really into fees, you could go one step further and charge a small isk fee for every page you look at. This way it would be cheap for the average buyer, but more expensive for someone who looks through pages and pages of escrows to find bargains. Removing global makes escrow too much like another market, with cost based fees and skills to reduce them. It would be nice if the auction system had a feature that would automatically bid up to an amount you designate, in minimum bid increments. So if an item starts at 20mil, i could bid 50mil, and it would start at 20mil and then automatically bid 26mil if someone else bid 25mil. This would reduce the problem of sniping, so you could post auction start/end times instead of "Long", etc.
CYVOK Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:30:00 - [83] Edited by: CYVOK on 28/07/2006 03:30:23 I appologize if this has been brought up as I have not read all the responses yet. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES let CEO's create an unlimited amount of internal (Corp/Corp Member) Contracts WITHOUT skills and without fee's. The last thing I need is to make 10 more alts with maxed skills on contracts just to manage my Corp better. I am sure every CEO that has more then 100 members knows exactly what I am saying. As it stands today many of us bigger corps use about a billion out-of-game tools we made ourselves to manage our memebrs daily activities and goals. If this system in-game ends up being an ISK sink limited by yet more skill's.... I'm gonna *****. Respectfully -CYVOK-
Liet Traep Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:47:00 - [84] No global contracts. groans I don't have time to roam all regions looking for deals. I'd rather stick with current escrow system then.
Blind Man Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 04:01:00 - [85] More skills to train? No global contracts? yay for always managing to find a way to screw over a great new feature MY CORP USES *** TEXT LIKE THIS UNDER SIGS SO I DO IT TOO.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.28 04:34:00 - [86] I get a great deal of enjoyment out of peering through Escrow for money making opportunities. I like being able to find a hangar clearance in say, Solitude, or Devoid, or Kor-Azor and scooping it up. Contracts will kill this deader than yesterday's fish. I don't mind (and actually enjoy) traveling to pick up stuff that I have purchased. I have absolutely no interest in traveling to 20 different regions to check the contract market...5 times a day. Each. I've no interest in training any character but my main in any skill. I've even less interest in running more than one account just to put out 3 more region checker alts. I already dislike the 2 that I use now. People will think back fondly on the days when Jita only had 500 people. They'll look at where Jita has 500 suicide gankers on each gate hoping to catch some officer loot being transported in for contracting to the most people.
Riley Craven Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 04:52:00 - [87] Wow yet again you guys mangle an otherwise great idea. First off, I can understand the need to restrict global views because of data, but I think you solved it nicely by only loading 2,000 results at a time with the old system. On top of that I think if you are looking for a very specific result with limited results like a specific faction item this will also cut down on large volumes of data. There was no reason to make this non global Secondly, I thought this was going to be great until you mentioned needing skills. Unless you are going to totally wipe the forums with the trade section, I cant see this catching on at all. Why pay and train to use a feature that you can get for free through the forums that is also GLOBAL. I can see you wanting to intro new skills into the game, but needing them for the new contract system is not only low, its very lame. Thirdly, I dont see why guys have to take such great ideas and screw them up. The new lab system sounded great, but now you cant find labs worth poo in empire if you want to do any kind of ME reserach on bpos. The average wait time is over 10 days on most empire slots. I went from researching bpos in weeks to researching the same amount in months. I spent many hours of hard work searching for cheap labs that was totaly negated when you implented this new future. It seems to me that you have to tarnish anything great that you guys do.
Dao 2 Species 5618 Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.28 05:07:00 - [88] yeah for real :\| i rather have it as it is now, crap, easily being bumped off, the scams, and buggy as hell then this new ** system. A few things make it MUCH worse in my eyes 1)skills: wtf?! y do u need skills for ** like this! 2)none global: wtf? this isn't "replacing escrow and having a new better system" this "replacing escrow with a even more retarded system" 3)charge: I personally haven't put up a public escrow in a LONG time, but still this is gonna limit a lot, gonna overflow the trade channels and sell orders forums WAY too much, and make a lot of ppl think twice about putting up escrows which sucks balls. and i was all fired up for contracts too :\| now i dont want it at all! ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
Weirda Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 05:20:00 - [89] Originally by: Maya Rkell Was going well until you mentioned limited numbers and regions only. Faction item market's going to implode to the hubs, the only real way to sell outside that is the trade channels which a lot of people - including me - hate and so you're utterly SOL. Time to get out the rare item business. The market's painful enough without dealign with what's essentially a fixed replica (because auctions which are basically "buy it now" are what will be used for the majority...) your point are well taken, but if you didn't always speak in absolute you may have a bit more credibility... __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now
Epsilon 1	Posted - 2006.07.28 05:21:00 - [90] His name is nonni; ccp is hiring some new monke..talents. And this might actually be good. Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?

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MY CORP USES *** TEXT LIKE THIS UNDER SIGS SO I DO IT TOO.