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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2558
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Posted - 2014.09.01 15:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi everyone,
How are the Crius industry changes working out for you?
This thread is for general feedback on the state of play, how the balance is settling down, and specific issues people still have. This is an experiment in follow-up feedback; please play nicely
Things I fixed internally last week: - All faction starbase modules should now correctly not require T1 materials as part of their build requirements, and should return the correct materials when reprocessed - 100mm Reinforced Steel Plates II has had its materials corrected - Siphons should now have the correct build requirements (10% reduction compared to pre-Crius at ME10%) - The Panther now correctly requires 3x Capital Jump Drive components - Small Ancillary Current Router II now only requires one of each T2 salvage component (Plus some text bugs that aren't that interesting)
I've seen reports of outposts not giving the correct cost reductions but it *seems* to be working on my test server; it's possible I've misunderstood the reports though? More info here would be good!
-Greyscale |
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Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
45
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Posted - 2014.09.01 15:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Very well thank you. I like it so far. I have two things i wonder about.
1. When you get the cost of a tech 2 bpc, id like to see what the total cost would be, if i produced all the materials myself. right now it only shows the total cost, if you buy all the components.
2. Depending on how you click on a blueprint to "view in industry" you get different results. Some without research taken itn account, and some with. 2.a. Why not make me able to artificially set the reasearched lvl? - Example, if i know that i'll have a perfect blueprint by the end of the weekend, id like to see what that generates.
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
726
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Posted - 2014.09.01 16:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: I've seen reports of outposts not giving the correct cost reductions but it *seems* to be working on my test server; it's possible I've misunderstood the reports though? More info here would be good!
-Greyscale
We are not receiving the cost reduction to install fees in amarr outposts (ME bonuses seem to be working). When this was reported, we were told that feature was axed. When it was pointed out that it was explicitly included in the final dev blog, there was some hemming and hawing and then "we'll work on it".
So is this actually going to be implemented?
Also, we badly need a better breakdown in-game of what's contributing to install costs. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
776
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Posted - 2014.09.01 16:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crius has been amazing, so far. The Industry UI is so much faster to use when installing multiple jobs; it's like a breath of fresh air.
I have some minor requests, of course:
* Can the maximum size of courier contracts be increased? Right now, you can only put a maximum of 980,000 m^3 of goods into one courier contract, while freighters are all easily capable of 1m+ m^3. * Here's one that is gonna require some significant UI work -- pagination on teams and blueprints in the industry UI is sorely needed. There are a LOT of teams currently active on TQ, and attempting to load the teams page is pretty rough on my computer, and surely others. People with truly insane numbers of blueprints are experiencing the same problem. Putting in some pagination would help that a lot.
Regarding the outpost bugs, here's the issue: The dev blog Eve Industry: All You Want To Know mentions in Appendix 2 that outposts are supposed to receive a cost reduction for jobs simply by the dint of their existence. These reductions are clearly not in play, however. The confusion was that we received mixed reports as to whether the cost reduction as detailed in that dev blog was actually meant to exist. If the cost reductions are not supposed to exist, then that's all well and good. However, if they are supposed to exist, then they are definitely not applying on TQ. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1578
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Posted - 2014.09.01 16:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: I've seen reports of outposts not giving the correct cost reductions but it *seems* to be working on my test server; it's possible I've misunderstood the reports though? More info here would be good!
-Greyscale
We are not receiving the cost reduction to install fees in amarr outposts (ME bonuses seem to be working). When this was reported, we were told that feature was axed. When it was pointed out that it was explicitly included in the final dev blog, there was some hemming and hawing and then "we'll work on it". So is this actually going to be implemented? Also, we badly need a better breakdown in-game of what's contributing to install costs.
Thirding this. We still don't have an official statement since the last one saying it would be discussed. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
727
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Posted - 2014.09.01 16:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think that compressing ore in stations needs to be looked at. We're a month in, and compressed ore is still not available in any real volume at reasonable prices.
Also, about the outpost pricing bug, here is the 'intended behavior' thing: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4888288#post4888288
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
776
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Posted - 2014.09.01 16:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Agreed -- station compression would be a huge shot in the arm for the sorry state of acquiring compressed minerals today.
Might I also suggest a UI hint in the Reprocessing dialog, pointing players towards compression if the price of the minerals they are receiving is significantly less than what the compressed ore value?
This all seems like overkill, but keep in mind -- changing the way mining works like this is fighting against 11 years of learned behavior. You cannot underestimate how strongly it is ingrained in the minds of the playerbase that reprocessing your ore is how you do business. Drastic measures are needed to decouple reprocessing from mining. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
727
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Posted - 2014.09.01 16:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
However, to not be a negative nancy: the patch has been a huge success and people are bidding on teams routinely (though with the sniping problem), highseccers have dared to even grab some teams I wanted, local industry has gotten a shot in the arm in 0.0 and we've noticed that we're now selling significant amounts of T2 stuff in null instead of shipping to jita.
It's been a big success and all of the issues are more 'sand this rough edge a bit' instead of 'god this sucks'. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1578
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Posted - 2014.09.01 16:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:However, to not be a negative nancy: the patch has been a huge success and people are bidding on teams routinely (though with the sniping problem), highseccers have dared to even grab some teams I wanted, local industry has gotten a shot in the arm in 0.0 and we've noticed that we're now selling significant amounts of T2 stuff in null instead of shipping to jita.
It's been a big success and all of the issues are more 'sand this rough edge a bit' instead of 'god this sucks'.
Yeah, sniping is going to need attention. You are making teams inherently timezone locked when the bidding is ending. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Thomas Hurt
The Scope Gallente Federation
310
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Posted - 2014.09.01 16:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Good patch, my only complaint is that it failed to add in a race of Cat-People with customizeable ears/tails/fur patterns/etc. |
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Ari Ashimon
Ashimon Industries Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
From what I can tell, Minmatar outpost factory upgrades that previously gave slot upgrades are still not giving ME reductions as per the original design.
Also reiterating what Retar and others posted about Amarr stations not getting the job cost reductions as planned. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6398
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:However, to not be a negative nancy: the patch has been a huge success and people are bidding on teams routinely (though with the sniping problem), highseccers have dared to even grab some teams I wanted, local industry has gotten a shot in the arm in 0.0 and we've noticed that we're now selling significant amounts of T2 stuff in null instead of shipping to jita.
It's been a big success and all of the issues are more 'sand this rough edge a bit' instead of 'god this sucks'. Yeah, sniping is going to need attention. You are making teams inherently timezone locked when the bidding is ending. It's always good to know that whatever the current price for the other days it is up, the price of a team is really determined in the last 2 seconds of it's auction. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
79
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Querns wrote:Agreed -- station compression would be a huge shot in the arm for the sorry state of acquiring compressed minerals today. Might I also suggest a UI hint in the Reprocessing dialog, pointing players towards compression if the price of the minerals they are receiving is significantly less than what the compressed ore value? This all seems like overkill, but keep in mind -- changing the way mining works like this is fighting against 11 years of learned behavior. You cannot underestimate how strongly it is ingrained in the minds of the playerbase that reprocessing your ore is how you do business. Drastic measures are needed to decouple reprocessing from mining.
Sorry guys I disagree. Yes something needs doing (maybe). As a mainly one man corp I just cannot justify the cost of buying then running even a small POS for the small increase in mining income, and i'm sure that i'm by far from being the only one thinking the same.
Maybe if players in a system could share a POS without being in the same corp it would help, or at least be able to allow players to use a compression array by invite or something. Heck even corps in the same alliance can't use each others POS facilities atm.
Yes i'd sell some compressed, but it just isn't worth it as it stands. But I'm still not sure station facilities are the way forward to compress. |
Sydious
The Drunken Empire Fatal Ascension
19
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would love it if the industry window would remember my hangar selections between jobs, instead of constantly having to reselect corp hangars.
Despite adding it to arkonor, mexallon is still in short supply in null. I can't import any ore that has it in very high volumes.
Teams sniping is very much an issue. Unless I'm going to be online when the bidding ends I don't even bother anymore. This should be reworked to a system where i can place a max amount i want to pay and let the system auto-bid for me until that's exceeded. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
776
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Querns wrote: Agreed -- station compression would be a huge shot in the arm for the sorry state of acquiring compressed minerals today.
Might I also suggest a UI hint in the Reprocessing dialog, pointing players towards compression if the price of the minerals they are receiving is significantly less than what the compressed ore value?
This all seems like overkill, but keep in mind -- changing the way mining works like this is fighting against 11 years of learned behavior. You cannot underestimate how strongly it is ingrained in the minds of the playerbase that reprocessing your ore is how you do business. Drastic measures are needed to decouple reprocessing from mining.
Sorry guys I disagree. Yes something needs doing (maybe). As a mainly one man corp I just cannot justify the cost of buying then running even a small POS for the small increase in mining income, and i'm sure that i'm by far from being the only one thinking the same. Maybe if players in a system could share a POS without being in the same corp it would help, or at least be able to allow players to use a compression array by invite or something. Heck even corps in the same alliance can't use each others POS facilities atm. Yes i'd sell some compressed, but it just isn't worth it as it stands. But I'm still not sure station facilities are the way forward to compress. That is the whole point -- adding station compression would make it so you can compress your ore without requiring a POS. I agree that the POS is both a significant barrier to entry and fiddly to make work with disparate groups of people. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
79
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Querns wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Querns wrote: Agreed -- station compression would be a huge shot in the arm for the sorry state of acquiring compressed minerals today.
Might I also suggest a UI hint in the Reprocessing dialog, pointing players towards compression if the price of the minerals they are receiving is significantly less than what the compressed ore value?
This all seems like overkill, but keep in mind -- changing the way mining works like this is fighting against 11 years of learned behavior. You cannot underestimate how strongly it is ingrained in the minds of the playerbase that reprocessing your ore is how you do business. Drastic measures are needed to decouple reprocessing from mining.
Sorry guys I disagree. Yes something needs doing (maybe). As a mainly one man corp I just cannot justify the cost of buying then running even a small POS for the small increase in mining income, and i'm sure that i'm by far from being the only one thinking the same. Maybe if players in a system could share a POS without being in the same corp it would help, or at least be able to allow players to use a compression array by invite or something. Heck even corps in the same alliance can't use each others POS facilities atm. Yes i'd sell some compressed, but it just isn't worth it as it stands. But I'm still not sure station facilities are the way forward to compress. That is the whole point -- adding station compression would make it so you can compress your ore without requiring a POS. I agree that the POS is both a significant barrier to entry and fiddly to make work with disparate groups of people.
I don't know what the answer is, but I do feel that if anyone could compress ore in any station it would quickly become worthless. Yes you'd get your minerals, but it would soon become pointless as selling raw ore or minerals would still be more viable due to the competition.
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Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
259
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
So far, the changes have been amazing! Especially the changes to T2-ship assembly arrays, since I finally went through with upgradin my old small POS to a medium one, just so I can finally build T2-ships in my own little space yard. The new UI reduced the necessary clickfest by enough, I can finally play my industry-alt without getting an aching wrist after a few busy hours.
The new costs overall have been much lower then I expected, but then again, maybe I overdid my contingency planning.
The only little thing left is the invention changes. I'm eagerly awaiting them, since invention is kind of important if you want to invent your own BPCs. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
727
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Posted - 2014.09.01 18:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
The invention job cost should not include the cost of the interfaces (as those are not used up). |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
776
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 18:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:I don't know what the answer is, but I do feel that if anyone could compress ore in any station it would quickly become worthless. Yes you'd get your minerals, but it would soon become pointless as selling raw ore or minerals would still be more viable due to the competition.
It'd be worth at least 10-20% more than the minerals are worth, just because nullsec can afford to pay that much more for it. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2559
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Posted - 2014.09.01 18:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hi everyone,
I'm going to read this properly tomorrow, but in the meantime I'm just dropping in to suggest that if you want to have a longer discussion about particular things, it'd be super helpful if you created a spin-off thread and link it from here, mainly because it makes it much easier for me to follow separate conversations when they're not interleaved :) What's all here is great, I'm just wary of coming back in the morning and finding ten pages about compression ;)
Thanks! -Greyscale |
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
79
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Posted - 2014.09.01 18:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sorry
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afkboss
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2014.09.01 18:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
I would like to know why the Rorquals mining bonus is still linked with the industrial core. I would love to be able have my Rorqual in a belt now that it can compress on the fly but to boost it has to sit AFK at a POS. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
442
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Posted - 2014.09.01 18:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
- T3's Hulls still require pre-crius number of RAM's even though stacks have been updated in our hangars/market orders/etc.. - T3 reverse enginering success rate is wrong OR the formula that's been available to public for ages is not acurate (i'l update the post with example once i get a chance to log into my indystry char) OR I'm bad at maths - when using "view in idnustry" on blueprint and checking how it would work in given station/pos i have access too i cant select corect tabs for corp hangars to check if i have right materials - when searching for teams i cant select what kind of bonus i'm looking for (for example try searching for material bonus to lets say hybrid components - you will get tones of material bonuses mixed with time bonuses teams. also cant sort by bonus level (best teams first for example) - its very unclear what is the cost level of system - the curent indicator with bars is very uninformative. Also a system with 5 and system with 15% is showing full bar which is very missleading when comparing systems. - for reverse enginering there is no info how many racial decryptors I have. when i select for example Gallente racial decryptor to make proteus hull i cant tell how many i have in that location and how many are needed. - not all systems are shown in FACILITIES tab. when I want to check how much it costs to run a job in a system where i know there is facility for it not all systems are available. Is there a limit on systems presented in that list? Regional? range? other?
Other than that its great. I love the new streamlined interface. Although for serious manufacturing the spreadsheets got more complicated :D
Waiting what You have in Your sleeve for new skills for industry.
For invention and reverse enginering I would love to have better breakdown screen of succeses and failures (when runing 11 identic jobs its easy to say what was success and what not, when running say 3/3/3/2 reverse of each race t3's and just seeing list of success/failure without info what is what is not good feedback for player. Havent tried the subsystems yet and i imagine having no info what was the random subsystem result is even worse)
For reverse enginering I would love to see REMOVAL of random subsystem result. Its annoying mechanic. Just increase reverse time / material needs / whatever but let us produce what we want to produce. I'm sure that my blueprints copies for uneeded subsystems (the ones that i dont bother to produce) takes a looooot of DB space in my hangar and server time when i accidentally click the container leaf on inventory screen to load them :D (and it kiils my PC too)
For manufacturing/science in general I would love to see the cost of running a job in a system without station service for it - just to see the cost index to check if i want to place a pos there without using API for that ( i know its on map, but come-on) Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Angie Chatter
15
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Posted - 2014.09.01 19:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
Posted this already like 10 times now, to me the most annoying thing in crius i have to "endure" every day are the gray installed blueprints, that clutter up my selection list.
1) Add a filter option to hide all installed, "in use" blueprints from the selection list, please!
2) The UI still lags pretty bad after each "started" job, sometimes it takes 3-10 seconds before the UI is usable again.
3) Make the "Start" button the default selected field after u selected a new blueprint, so we can use "arrow down + enter" to directly install a new job. We can't batch install jobs, this would save some unneeded mouse moves+clicks.
4) The time it takes for the system cost index to lower again, seems of. What math does it use? It takes literally just 10 jobs to get from 0.01 to 0.2, but it will take weeks to get from 0.2 to 0.18? This is in a system without NPC station and any other pos at 3 weeks with ZERO manufacturing. I would have expected the index to gradually fall back to 0.01, given that it should get there in 28 days? What i see is a 10-15% reduction in 3 weeks, so why is the fallback not more linear?
5) Would be nice to be able to repackage containers on a POS corp hangar, so i can stop this juggling them around between POS and stations. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
442
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Posted - 2014.09.01 19:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Angie Chatter wrote:Posted this already like 10 times now, to me the most annoying thing in crius i have to "endure" every day are the gray installed blueprints, that clutter up my selection list.
1) Add a filter option to hide all installed, "in use" blueprints from the selection list, please!
2) The UI still lags pretty bad after each "started" job, sometimes it takes 3-10 seconds before the UI is usable again.
3) Make the "Start" button the default selected field after u selected a new blueprint, so we can use "arrow down + enter" to directly install a new job. We can't batch install jobs, this would save some unneeded mouse moves+clicks.
4) The time it takes for the system cost index to lower again, seems of. What math does it use? It takes literally just 10 jobs to get from 0.01 to 0.2, but it will take weeks to get from 0.2 to 0.18? This is in a system without NPC station and any other pos at 3 weeks with ZERO manufacturing. I would have expected the index to gradually fall back to 0.01, given that it should get there in 28 days? What i see is a 10-15% reduction in 3 weeks, so why is the fallback not more linear?
5) Would be nice to be able to repackage containers on a POS corp hangar, so i can stop this juggling them around between POS and stations.
Completely agree with 1 and 2, grey blueprints and lag is an issue. 3 would be nice addiditon. Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
BooomBox
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hello. In industry interface while choosing facility, input/output location, team for the blueprint you want use, there is a wonderful feature, that the next blueprint of the same type chosen in the interface uses the same options as previous. That is a real time saver and the best part of Crius for me. What i want to suggest is that any blueprint after the first one should select previous options until those options are changed. Cheers |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1506
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
do you remember when you wanted to discuss increasing the production time for fighters, fighter bombers and capital modules ?
you said you would talk about it with some people, but there has been silence since then :( Build your empire ! Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis Contact me for details :)
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
106
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Greyscale:
--I would like to have the ability to apply POS bonuses to blueprints when viewing them in other locations. Ie: I buy it from the market and I can adjust the BPO to see different ME/TE values to know what I'll need with my current skills without having to resort to the wonders of google spreadsheets.
--There seems to be a bit of lag when installing blueprints after you click "Install" and then click on the next BPO/BPC. CCP RedDawn:Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty..||| CCP Goliath:I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. ||| CCP Goliath:http://goo.gl/PKGDPZ |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
107
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:However, to not be a negative nancy: the patch has been a huge success and people are bidding on teams routinely (though with the sniping problem), highseccers have dared to even grab some teams I wanted, local industry has gotten a shot in the arm in 0.0 and we've noticed that we're now selling significant amounts of T2 stuff in null instead of shipping to jita.
It's been a big success and all of the issues are more 'sand this rough edge a bit' instead of 'god this sucks'. Yeah, sniping is going to need attention. You are making teams inherently timezone locked when the bidding is ending.
Guilty
I have alarmed clocked for teams
didn't mind though, part of the game |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1437
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Please, please, please can there be an option added to specify a default corp hanger for jobs run at a POS?
Better sorting of the blueprint lists would also be great (allow sorting by multiple columns) |
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