I've seen reports of outposts not giving the correct cost reductions but it *seems* to be working on my test server; it's possible I've misunderstood the reports though? More info here would be good!

-Greyscale

We are not receiving the cost reduction to install fees in amarr outposts (ME bonuses seem to be working). When this was reported, we were told that feature was axed. When it was pointed out that it was explicitly included in the final dev blog, there was some hemming and hawing and then "we'll work on it".

So is this actually going to be implemented?

Also, we badly need a better breakdown in-game of what's contributing to install costs.

I think that compressing ore in stations needs to be looked at. We're a month in, and compressed ore is still not available in any real volume at reasonable prices.

Also, about the outpost pricing bug, here is the 'intended behavior' thing: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4888288#post4888288

However, to not be a negative nancy: the patch has been a huge success and people are bidding on teams routinely (though with the sniping problem), highseccers have dared to even grab some teams I wanted, local industry has gotten a shot in the arm in 0.0 and we've noticed that we're now selling significant amounts of T2 stuff in null instead of shipping to jita.

It's been a big success and all of the issues are more 'sand this rough edge a bit' instead of 'god this sucks'.

Yeah, sniping is going to need attention. You are making teams inherently timezone locked when the bidding is ending.

Agreed -- station compression would be a huge shot in the arm for the sorry state of acquiring compressed minerals today.

Might I also suggest a UI hint in the Reprocessing dialog, pointing players towards compression if the price of the minerals they are receiving is significantly less than what the compressed ore value?

This all seems like overkill, but keep in mind -- changing the way mining works like this is fighting against 11 years of learned behavior. You cannot underestimate how strongly it is ingrained in the minds of the playerbase that reprocessing your ore is how you do business. Drastic measures are needed to decouple reprocessing from mining.

Sorry guys I disagree. Yes something needs doing (maybe). As a mainly one man corp I just cannot justify the cost of buying then running even a small POS for the small increase in mining income, and i'm sure that i'm by far from being the only one thinking the same.

Maybe if players in a system could share a POS without being in the same corp it would help, or at least be able to allow players to use a compression array by invite or something. Heck even corps in the same alliance can't use each others POS facilities atm.

Yes i'd sell some compressed, but it just isn't worth it as it stands. But I'm still not sure station facilities are the way forward to compress.

That is the whole point -- adding station compression would make it so you can compress your ore without requiring a POS. I agree that the POS is both a significant barrier to entry and fiddly to make work with disparate groups of people.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do feel that if anyone could compress ore in any station it would quickly become worthless. Yes you'd get your minerals, but it would soon become pointless as selling raw ore or minerals would still be more viable due to the competition.

Posted this already like 10 times now, to me the most annoying thing in crius i have to "endure" every day are the gray installed blueprints, that clutter up my selection list.

1) Add a filter option to hide all installed, "in use" blueprints from the selection list, please!

2) The UI still lags pretty bad after each "started" job, sometimes it takes 3-10 seconds before the UI is usable again.

3) Make the "Start" button the default selected field after u selected a new blueprint, so we can use "arrow down + enter" to directly install a new job. We can't batch install jobs, this would save some unneeded mouse moves+clicks.

4) The time it takes for the system cost index to lower again, seems of. What math does it use? It takes literally just 10 jobs to get from 0.01 to 0.2, but it will take weeks to get from 0.2 to 0.18? This is in a system without NPC station and any other pos at 3 weeks with ZERO manufacturing. I would have expected the index to gradually fall back to 0.01, given that it should get there in 28 days? What i see is a 10-15% reduction in 3 weeks, so why is the fallback not more linear?

5) Would be nice to be able to repackage containers on a POS corp hangar, so i can stop this juggling them around between POS and stations.

Yeah, sniping is going to need attention. You are making teams inherently timezone locked when the bidding is ending.

Sorry guys I disagree. Yes something needs doing (maybe). As a mainly one man corp I just cannot justify the cost of buying then running even a small POS for the small increase in mining income, and i'm sure that i'm by far from being the only one thinking the same.

Maybe if players in a system could share a POS without being in the same corp it would help, or at least be able to allow players to use a compression array by invite or something. Heck even corps in the same alliance can't use each others POS facilities atm.

Yes i'd sell some compressed, but it just isn't worth it as it stands. But I'm still not sure station facilities are the way forward to compress.

That is the whole point -- adding station compression would make it so you can compress your ore without requiring a POS. I agree that the POS is both a significant barrier to entry and fiddly to make work with disparate groups of people.

It'd be worth at least 10-20% more than the minerals are worth, just because nullsec can afford to pay that much more for it.

i did a basic spreadsheet and I can refine in a highsec station without the RX04 implant and the resulting minerals are worth more than the ore. Using the RX04 implant just about doubles the profits.

So i guess the big market guys are not paying enough for high sec ores and does not incentiveise me to compress.

Hi everyone,

I'm going to read this properly tomorrow, but in the meantime I'm just dropping in to suggest that if you want to have a longer discussion about particular things, it'd be super helpful if you created a spin-off thread and link it from here, mainly because it makes it much easier for me to follow separate conversations when they're not interleaved :) What's all here is great, I'm just wary of coming back in the morning and finding ten pages about compression ;)

Thanks!
-Greyscale

On the topic of sniping, I'd like to see the bid changed to maximum bid, similar to ebay. In the UI, you would see the current winning bid, but you wouldn't see the winning bid's maximum bid. That way, a bidder can do a valuation, set the maximum, and have incremental bids dropped in until a winner is determined.

The invention job cost should not include the cost of the interfaces (as those are not used up).

This would be fantastic.

I really like some of the changes made... yet I stopped with the industry part of the game.
I don't find the motivation to update my spreadsheets each time a blueprint is changed and I fail to see an easy way to import my blueprints without using different sources like YAML, XML, SQL, CREST and whatever.
If the charakter blueprint API would include the materials needed to build stuff with given ME/TE I'd take a look at it...

pssst. I put together a few useful things. So has lockefox.


Spreadsheet with the materials to make things:
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/dump/hyperion-1.0-101505/industryActivityMaterials.xls.bz2
(there are others in the same directory that you'll probably want. invTypes for lookups for the names. industryActivity* for other industry details)

If you want to load your list of blueprints into a google docs spreadsheet:
https://github.com/fuzzysteve/eve-googledocs-script/blob/master/blueprints.gs


If you want a bunch of handy functions for getting indexes and so on:
http://eve-prosper.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/building-better-spreadsheets-crius.html



https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/costindex.php if you want to browse indexes out of game. The map if you want to look in game.

If you're talking for the calculation for the cost to install the invention job, it doesn't.

It's based off the cost to build thing you're inventing to.

Source: the numbers match up with my calculator which does it that way.

Past Crius I started to manufacture my stuff in Jita 4-4, cutting off the logistic and beeing able to adapt to market fluctuations within a second. I even took out the risk of losing my goods to suicide gankers and wardecs wouldn't shut down my business.
Because of higher installation costs in Jita 4-4 my margins got tighter, but still I would be able to make higher overall profit due to cutting of logistics (ISK and time) and risks.

For what I see the system cost index doesn't work the way it should work.
Manufacturing in Jita 4-4 is WAY too cheap considering the benefits or facilities >10 jumps out are WAY too expensive.
To me moving out 10 jumps won't lower the system cost index enough to justify the extra effort.

2. Depending on how you click on a blueprint to "view in industry" you get different results. Some without research taken itn account, and some with.

We are not receiving the cost reduction to install fees in amarr outposts (ME bonuses seem to be working). When this was reported, we were told that feature was axed. When it was pointed out that it was explicitly included in the final dev blog, there was some hemming and hawing and then "we'll work on it".

So is this actually going to be implemented?

Also, we badly need a better breakdown in-game of what's contributing to install costs.

Good patch, my only complaint is that it failed to add in a race of Cat-People with customizeable ears/tails/fur patterns/etc.

From what I can tell, Minmatar outpost factory upgrades that previously gave slot upgrades are still not giving ME reductions as per the original design.

do you remember when you wanted to discuss increasing the production time for fighters, fighter bombers and capital modules ?

you said you would talk about it with some people, but there has been silence since then :(

CCP Greyscale -

I chatted with you about this prior to your vacation- which I hope you enjoyed

Minnie outpost lab upgrade not providing invention

EBR-224582014/08/21Science - Minmatar outpost upgradeAttachedEdit | View Comments

That is the Bugreport

Just wondering what is happening and what kind of time frame are we dealing with?

Ah, sorry about that.

I've taken the liberty of making the adjunct thread you requested.

Let me double-check this.

Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)

- T3's Hulls still require pre-crius number of RAM's even though stacks have been updated in our hangars/market orders/etc..
- T3 reverse enginering success rate is wrong OR the formula that's been available to public for ages is not acurate (i'l update the

EDIT: update with example:
Intact Hull Section
Base Probability (minus) -60%
Skills 105%
Total 82%
This is from client. With all relevant skills at lvl 5.

Now lets look at formula as available in most online guides:
Base 40% (interpretting -60% as 100%-60%=40% so this one is correct)
40% * (1+(0.01 * Reverse_Enginering))*(1+(0.1*(Plasma_Physics + Mech_Enginering)))
40% * 2.1
84% - so skill bonus is 110% not 105% (2.1-1)

So either that formula is wrong OR the ingame display is wrong

- when using "view in idnustry" on blueprint and checking how it would work in given station/pos i have access too i cant select corect tabs for corp hangars to check if i have right materials
- when searching for teams i cant select what kind of bonus i'm looking for (for example try searching for material bonus to lets say hybrid components - you will get tones of material bonuses mixed with time bonuses teams. also cant sort by bonus level (best teams first for example)
- its very unclear what is the cost level of system - the curent indicator with bars is very uninformative. Also a system with 5 and system with 15% is showing full bar which is very missleading when comparing systems.
- for reverse enginering there is no info how many racial decryptors I have. when i select for example Gallente racial decryptor to make proteus hull i cant tell how many i have in that location and how many are needed.
- not all systems are shown in FACILITIES tab. when I want to check how much it costs to run a job in a system where i know there is facility for it not all systems are available. Is there a limit on systems presented in that list? Regional? range? other?

Other than that its great. I love the new streamlined interface. Although for serious manufacturing the spreadsheets got more complicated :D

Waiting what You have in Your sleeve for new skills for industry.

For invention and reverse enginering I would love to have better breakdown screen of succeses and failures (when runing 11 identic jobs its easy to say what was success and what not, when running say 3/3/3/2 reverse of each race t3's and just seeing list of success/failure without info what is what is not good feedback for player. Havent tried the subsystems yet and i imagine having no info what was the random subsystem result is even worse)

For reverse enginering I would love to see REMOVAL of random subsystem result. Its annoying mechanic. Just increase reverse time / material needs / whatever but let us produce what we want to produce. I'm sure that my blueprints copies for uneeded subsystems (the ones that i dont bother to produce) takes a looooot of DB space in my hangar and server time when i accidentally click the container leaf on inventory screen to load them :D (and it kiils my PC too)

For manufacturing/science in general I would love to see the cost of running a job in a system without station service for it - just to see the cost index to check if i want to place a pos there without using API for that ( i know its on map, but come-on)

- T3's Hulls still require pre-crius number of RAM's even though stacks have been updated in our hangars/market orders/etc..

- T3 reverse enginering success rate is wrong OR the formula that's been available to public for ages is not acurate (i'l update the

EDIT: update with example:
Intact Hull Section
Base Probability (minus) -60%
Skills 105%
Total 82%
This is from client. With all relevant skills at lvl 5.

Now lets look at formula as available in most online guides:
Base 40% (interpretting -60% as 100%-60%=40% so this one is correct)
40% * (1+(0.01 * Reverse_Enginering))*(1+(0.1*(Plasma_Physics + Mech_Enginering)))
40% * 2.1
84% - so skill bonus is 110% not 105% (2.1-1)

So either that formula is wrong OR the ingame display is wrong

Still have a totally unusable skill orphaned.

I think that compressing ore in stations needs to be looked at. We're a month in, and compressed ore is still not available in any real volume at reasonable prices.

Also, about the outpost pricing bug, here is the 'intended behavior' thing: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4888288#post4888288

OK, thread read up to this point, I've got 24 bullet points in my to-look-at list. Some specific questions I have:



Can you give examples of this, so we can be sure we're looking at the right problem?



Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)



Vacation was lovely, thank you.

I looked at this last week, the upshot from our end is that the text was unnecessarily broad and misleading - it does "technically" give an invention time reduction, but it doesn't actually let you do invention so you can never use that bit of the bonus. This is obviously silly. Text is now fixed; if you're stuck with an unwanted upgrade, I'd suggest talking to CS and asking what their policy is on that as I really don't know, sorry!

How would you handle multiple bids?

The way the system works now is: multiple people can all put bids in, which count to the system level bid.

X puts 3
Y puts 7
Z puts 15

which leads to a total bid of 25 for the system.


If the next highest bid for a system is 20, what you're suggesting would go up to 21. But how does that break down into X Y and Z's bids, for ISK returned?


(not saying it's a bad idea. Just wondering how you'd suggest implementing it)

Hi everyone,

How are the Crius industry changes working out for you?

* Something mentioned to me was flexibility by CCP (I think you) earlier was a "preview" mode to set me/te on blueprints to tinker. Is that still something you want to do?

This thread is for general feedback on the state of play, how the balance is settling down, and specific issues people still have.

I'm sure this has already been forwarded to you, but please check out this thread on revisiting ore distribution in nullsec.

The changes to compression and refining bonuses in null are causing a huge surplus of high end minerals and leaving nullsec with some serious issues sourcing low end minerals.

Querns also made a thread regarding compression, although I personally believe the issue can be resolved on the mineral supply end.

(note to randoms: please save discussion for these items in their respective threads)

Very well thank you. I like it so far. I have two things i wonder about.

1. When you get the cost of a tech 2 bpc, id like to see what the total cost would be, if i produced all the materials myself. right now it only shows the total cost, if you buy all the components.

2.a. Why not make me able to artificially set the reasearched lvl? - Example, if i know that i'll have a perfect blueprint by the end of the weekend, id like to see what that generates.

I would love it if the industry window would remember my hangar selections between jobs, instead of constantly having to reselect corp hangars.

The release has put me off playing and I no longer play or even log in daily like I used to. The bad things outweigh the good and make it hard to be enthusiastic about doing what I loved, building stuff.

Good patch, my only complaint is that it failed to add in a race of Cat-People with customizeable ears/tails/fur patterns/etc.

The release has put me off playing and I no longer play or even log in daily like I used to. The bad things outweigh the good and make it hard to be enthusiastic about doing what I loved, building stuff.

Let me start with what I like about the release:
- No build slot limit.
- The new UI for industry

Now for all the stuff I hate dealing with:
- The new UI (it is too big, there's no way to close it, takes a long time to load up all the BPs)
- Build cost ( any system with more then one station has the build index so high it's not cost effective to build large ships there )
- Years of grinding standings now doesn't have any benefits.
- Useless skill that was completely changed. ( this one is minor for me )
- Heavily researched BPOs became the same as lightly researched ones

So no I don't log in to build, I took down my POS, and I don't log in.

If you can fix the UI so I can actually see more blueprints, make my standings worth something, and resolve the build cost issues then it might be worth playing again.

In one of the patches you "fixed" Industry jobs that way they don't accept assembeld ships. When building on a pos that can get quite anoying as you can't repack the ships there. Especialy if you try building big thigns like a jumpfreighter as you can't move a packed Freighter hull around in any ship. So allowing us to repackage ships at a POS or shrinking packed freighter hulls to like 1.000.000m-¦ of volume would be nice :)

Attached is a screenshot showing YA0 not getting the ME bonus. It should be getting 1% off (our stations with 2% off are also not working): http://i.imgur.com/ccRRuiQ.jpg

Also, without the team just for good measure: http://i.imgur.com/w8rETlK.jpg

the uniformity of the t2 ship material requirements is betrayed by the gallente command ships.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=365451

First one, it is weird, I can prolly prove it, but can't put a finger on it

Second point - See alternate thread i made, complete with screenshots - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4978539#post4978539

Third - Uggh, maybe instead of fixing text there should be something added like an attributes tab or something to explain what these things do, right now it is a black science with typo's

Kenneth

* Not all of the 0/0 bpcs from before Crius got converted. Do another DB pass?

Obligatory joke with words like "your stuff" and "can i have" goes in here

Yup, this is an intentional anomaly due to wanting to give the Eos the Myrm hull because it's the drone boat even though it was the field command not the fleet command (and therefore should by default use the Brutix hull). It's not obvious to us that the disruption of messing with the build costs of existing ships is worth making the mapping between ship model and build cost fully consistent.

I don't totally follow your screenshots, you say one is 37m and one is 39m but the costs look the same to me?

OK, thanks, I'll look into this!

Short version

- Shut down 4 high sec Large Industy POS for costs outweighing profit
- Stopped all T2 production, BPO and invention for declined margins and numbers
- Fall back to T1 production until we figure out what to do
- Moving production to Jita for obvius reasons

So... Hoping to see the market level out, cant make enough to fund all needed plex atm.
Stetching till the end of the year.. Maybe quit for the time being

You complain of declined margins... and then move all your production to Jita, the system with the highest job costs?

[quote=Querns][quote=Quentin Rush]
... and the least shipping costs.

B. I seriously dislike how the reprocessing array lacks any kind of UI like reprocessing in a station has. I know, the POS code is broken so it's hard to do. Fix it already. This excuse is getting old.

Do you have an example I could look up? This sounds like a wrong.

Yup, this is an intentional anomaly due to wanting to give the Eos the Myrm hull because it's the drone boat even though it was the field command not the fleet command (and therefore should by default use the Brutix hull). It's not obvious to us that the disruption of messing with the build costs of existing ships is worth making the mapping between ship model and build cost fully consistent.

Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)

- POS needs fix to become intresting again (Where is the stacking bonus?)

Search through the capital rig bpc market. Stuff like t2 capital trimarks still have a fair amount of 0/0 bpcs for sale. It is prevalent enough that it annoys me when I search through the market for t2 capital rig bpcs and I have to ignore 0/0's.

Here's a specific example:

http://gyazo.com/a890aa3c2ed3a397b35f8f53ae94d1cf

Also, would it be possible to do a pass on the market so that everything actually shows up in it?

For example, elite drone AI (required for augmented drones) can't be sold via the market so it makes sourcing them very difficult.

In general it'd be really, really nice if every non-blueprint thing in contracts could be sold via the market. Mission loot, etc, would be fun to play with and it'd clear out contract clutter.

I didn't understand a word of that... it may just be time for me to go to bed... but BLOPS are similar: only one doesn't use jump drive components!

Are they using Jove technology in that one?

Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom)

I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify.

The formula should be
[Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax]

For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34
I'm using 1 run for simplicity.
System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api
2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2
Our Tax rate is 15% (1.15)

145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up.

Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk

Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?1

4003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5

It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game

There sure is a lot of nerd math in here. I don't need anything more than my gut to tell me that industry is fine as it is.

Apologize if this has been discussed already.

In anticipation of the patch I put a lot of research in the oven. This was done in the belief that pre-patch rules would apply. In other words that the research I did would be transfered to the new ME / PE system. I have been told that this is not going to happen and was never intended. I find this a bit odd since I read up on a lot of the information available before the patch detailing a conversion from old ME to new ME and likewise for PE. As far as I know none of that specified a distinction between blueprints in research as opposed to blueprints in a hangar.

My problem with this is not that this was the outcome, but how it was done. I believe I read more than your average player about the patch before the patch and I did not see this. If you wanted to distinguish between blueprints in research and blueprints in a hangar players should have been made aware of this well in advance. Once a player submits a research job he does so in the expectation of a certain return, when in conversion a distinction is made you upset that as the player no longer gets the product he / she invested isk/time/fuel in.

Example: Player puts a blueprint in for ME research pre-patch going from ME 0->1 (ME 5% in the new system), he pays X amount of isk for this. What the player actually gets is a direct conversion, different from that specified in patch notes and devblogs, where old ME 0->1 becomes new ME 0% -> 1%. This is significantly different that what the player was expecting based on the choices he made in the game. In most, if not all cases, going from new ME 0%-1% is also significantly cheaper and less time consuming that old ME 0->1.

Are there any plans to take a second look at this?

they changed it about 3 weeks prior to patch

BPO converted on PATCH DAY

Research applied after it comes out

for example, i had a crap ton of ME5 capital BPO's that were going to come out ME9

a week prior to patch i put them in for ME1 and 4 weeks later they all came out ME10 (except 2 didn't convert properly, I have petitioned)

Where do you have this information from? Do you have a link?

Where do you have this information from? Do you have a link?

[quote=Kirin Falense]
nvmd above, had it bookmarked:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4817233#post4817233

Notice the date, this is right before expansion

Thank you. As you pointed out, this information is not easily available, it should have been.

If you are trying to abuse patch changover mechanics to gain an advantage, it's on you to keep abreast of exactly what the mechanics are.

LOL

I think I had to unanchor, carry to station, repackage and then anchor and online 14-15 labs just to get the slots back after so many starting and cancelling of jobs to get the most benefit from the changeover mechanic.

Seemed like every day was a different message. In the end, was a fantastic success, at least personally

If you are trying to abuse patch changover mechanics to gain an advantage, it's on you to keep abreast of exactly what the mechanics are.

The 0/0 T2 rig BPC thing reminds me of another thing I ran across recently...
Exploration-sourced T2 rig BPCs are still being generated at 0/0. This used to be better than invention-produced ones, but now it's worse. (Although, to be fair, it only matters on big blueprints; many of them use less than 10 of any given material per run.)

Was this intentional?

Greyscale said about 2 pages ago he would look into this...geez, at least read a little bit back before asking

Sorry guys I disagree. Yes something needs doing (maybe). As a mainly one man corp I just cannot justify the cost of buying then running even a small POS for the small increase in mining income, and i'm sure that i'm by far from being the only one thinking the same.

Maybe if players in a system could share a POS without being in the same corp it would help, or at least be able to allow players to use a compression array by invite or something. Heck even corps in the same alliance can't use each others POS facilities atm.

Yes i'd sell some compressed, but it just isn't worth it as it stands. But I'm still not sure station facilities are the way forward to compress.

You do know that as long as it's all anchored you can leave your pos offline and only turn it on when you need it, like to use the compression array. Load that thing up with what would normally be a week's worth of fuel, and you'll see that it lasts, like, forever if you do this.

From what I saw, Greyscale said he would look into things that weren't converted right. These weren't converted at all: they were spawned *after* Crius was released.

Fakedit: On the other hand, it does look like I got scooped by someone two posts above me. I may have posted from page 12 instead of page 13 for some reason.

-snip-

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4986311#post4986311

is this not what you mean?

It looks like the old 0/0 drops from anomolies not convented, whether it is a new drop or an older one, he is looking into it.

I am sorry if this isn't what you meant, but it sounds like what you mean.

On the topic of sniping, I'd like to see the bid changed to maximum bid, similar to ebay. In the UI, you would see the current winning bid, but you wouldn't see the winning bid's maximum bid. That way, a bidder can do a valuation, set the maximum, and have incremental bids dropped in until a winner is determined.

Wouldn't that just result in that the winning bid ends up with the bid with the highest maximum BUT with the "smallest" possible margin?

In other Words the only effect would be to let the Winner to get of cheaper.

Hi everyone,

I'm going to read this properly tomorrow, but in the meantime I'm just dropping in to suggest that if you want to have a longer discussion about particular things, it'd be super helpful if you created a spin-off thread and link it from here, mainly because it makes it much easier for me to follow separate conversations when they're not interleaved :) What's all here is great, I'm just wary of coming back in the morning and finding ten pages about compression ;)

Thanks!
-Greyscale

wrong, this is a well-known solution and the point is that it discourages doing anything but putting your actual max price you want to pay and then waiting for the auction to finish

as far as i know you can do that now :)

as far as i know you can do that now :)

Not sure if it was this way before Crius - but in other T2 hull not matching each other topics. The Minmatar Black Ops is the only Black Ops hip that doesn't require 3 Capital Jump Drives. Or at least it doesn't on the BPC (haven't built one no not sure if it's UI only).

-would be nice to have a new industry skill which reduces the install cost of jobs, since those are very high now.

Why are the bpcs found in data/relic sites still me 0/0?

This feels like an oversight.

The ones that were in my inventory from pre crius were updated with enhanced me/pe just like all the other invention bpcs, but any new ones i find are 0/0 making them significantly worse than any invented ones. These bpcs were a nice, random bonus (since the vast majority are useless) but now they have all become largely worthless.

Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom)

I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify.

The formula should be
[Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax]

For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34
I'm using 1 run for simplicity.
System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api
2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2
Our Tax rate is 15% (1.15)

145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up.

Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk

Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?1

4003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5

It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game

Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost.

(You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)

I guess we are only a few weeks away from outproducing jita!

Obligatory "CCP Greyscale, please fix local mineral supply in null" comment here

Dont care about local mineral supply, that will never be enough anyway.

Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost.

(You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)

Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost.

(You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66057/1/full_pricing_formula.png

if that is no longer the formula, can you please advise as to the new formula - obviously we know starbase got removed

Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost.

(You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)

The formula is accurate (other than the reduction due to hours run. That was removed), but not for us to use, as we don't get the raw figures.

We use:

cost of materials of the output using the adjusted cost from the api, at ME 0
multiplied by 0.02 if it's a research/invention/RE/copy job
multiplied by the cost index for that activity, in that system.
multiplied by 1.1 if it's in an NPC station, or by the tax multiplier set on PC facilities
multiplied by the team cost multiplier (team cost of 4% = 1.04 multiplier)

So, then if you say build SC/Titans in a system with an Amarr station, there is no possible way to go over system index of 5

This gives a permanent 50% reduction to all SC/Titan jobs forever

Because initially it was only supposed to be jobs in the station, but by applying that bonus to the systen, it will now apply to all POS's


BTW: - this is a Y/N question.....

We discussed this and I think came to the conclusion that we should probably leave them as-is, as we'd prefer invented BPCs to be the primary source. We're aware that this devalues some sites somewhat, and it's something we will likely revisit after further invention changes are done.

Thank you for the clarification. I would like to point out however that the dev blog actually does tell me to multiply in the station bonus. Under the "Industry Cost Calculations" section step number 5:

"Multiply the cost by any facility bonuses as described in the ramAssemblyLineTypes"

Since this is not the case there needs to be an official word somewhere of how costs are now calculated since all of the published words are out-of-date.