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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
SlickReed
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
2
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Posted - 2014.09.05 03:43:00 -
[151] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Drago Shouna wrote: Sorry guys I disagree. Yes something needs doing (maybe). As a mainly one man corp I just cannot justify the cost of buying then running even a small POS for the small increase in mining income, and i'm sure that i'm by far from being the only one thinking the same.
Maybe if players in a system could share a POS without being in the same corp it would help, or at least be able to allow players to use a compression array by invite or something. Heck even corps in the same alliance can't use each others POS facilities atm.
Yes i'd sell some compressed, but it just isn't worth it as it stands. But I'm still not sure station facilities are the way forward to compress.
You do know that as long as it's all anchored you can leave your pos offline and only turn it on when you need it, like to use the compression array. Load that thing up with what would normally be a week's worth of fuel, and you'll see that it lasts, like, forever if you do this.
I don't agree with anything you say :-) |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
138
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Posted - 2014.09.05 08:59:00 -
[152] - Quote
Ranamar wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Ranamar wrote:The 0/0 T2 rig BPC thing reminds me of another thing I ran across recently... Exploration-sourced T2 rig BPCs are still being generated at 0/0. This used to be better than invention-produced ones, but now it's worse. (Although, to be fair, it only matters on big blueprints; many of them use less than 10 of any given material per run.)
Was this intentional? Greyscale said about 2 pages ago he would look into this...geez, at least read a little bit back before asking From what I saw, Greyscale said he would look into things that weren't converted right. These weren't converted at all: they were spawned *after* Crius was released. Fakedit: On the other hand, it does look like I got scooped by someone two posts above me. I may have posted from page 12 instead of page 13 for some reason.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4986311#post4986311
is this not what you mean?
It looks like the old 0/0 drops from anomolies not convented, whether it is a new drop or an older one, he is looking into it.
I am sorry if this isn't what you meant, but it sounds like what you mean. |
Juliette Asanari
Saeder-Krupp Trading Division
64
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Posted - 2014.09.05 09:49:00 -
[153] - Quote
I hope I'm not to late to the thread, but for me, the Indusry UI doesn't behave as I expect.
If I want to find out, whether I can invent a T1-BPC into a T2-BPC, the UI is counterintuitively. I cannot check with a BPO inserted (invention is greyed out), if I switch to copy and try to 'use blueprint' on the result side of the copying-process (rclick the bpc, 'use blueprint') I expect to find the bpc in the middle of the ui (so i can then check invention). Except it doesn't end up there, it puts a bpo in the spot. To check invention, I have to look up the bpc on the contract market and 'use' it from there. I see two possible solutions: 1) allow invention to be viewed from the bpo (with a tooltip explaining that you need a bpc) 2) using the result of a copy-process places a bpc in the ui
Another thing: 'using' the result of an invention-process (the t2-bpc) puts the bpc with -1 runs in the ui. This is quite unhelpful, as that number cannot be changed ;-) |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
67
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Posted - 2014.09.05 20:16:00 -
[154] - Quote
I suppose that could cover it.
I particularly wanted to emphasize that the exact same blueprints are spawning now as before. TBH, I suspect the odds are good that all the good T2 rig BPOs that might have gotten converted before got burned through by now.
By now we are in violent agreement, though, I'd say. :) |
Qinby
ImNo6
6
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Posted - 2014.09.05 23:49:00 -
[155] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:On the topic of sniping, I'd like to see the bid changed to maximum bid, similar to ebay. In the UI, you would see the current winning bid, but you wouldn't see the winning bid's maximum bid. That way, a bidder can do a valuation, set the maximum, and have incremental bids dropped in until a winner is determined.
Hi
Might missunderstod what you mean with incremental bids up to your set maximum.
Wouldn't that just result in that the winning bid ends up with the bid with the highest maximum BUT with the "smallest" possible margin?
In other Words the only effect would be to let the Winner to get of cheaper.
If you with sniping mean raising with "0,1" over highest bid at the last second, that doesnt work/happen.
I bid 8-10 times higher than highest bid at the last second and nearly Always lose anyway.
The only thing to do at the moment is to bid as late as possible and bid what you are willing to pay maximum, there is no way of getting of cheap if the team is good.
If it saves you 6 bill a month bid 1-2 bill, if you loose at 1 bill bid 2 bill next time... you still save 4 bill. This means that smaller manufacturers can't get hold of good teams but have to move to where they are.
Then when you have your teams you just have to hope it doesnt attract to many other manufacturers that drives the manu index thru the roof.
I don't realy understand what the problem is except that it can be annoying to lose an auction on a team one wants and also if you get it be afraid you paid a lot of Money unneccessary since you dont know what the seccond largest bid was.
That's just Life as ussual...
The only practical thing one can do is to bid on many teams (its enough with the minimum amount) even if you dont want them and try to estimate what you Think they are Worth and try to keep track of what the highest bid is near the end of the bidding.
What they are Worth to you shouldn be a problem.
Then you get the mail when the auction ends "you lost" but you get to know what the winning bid was. That way you build up some kind of estimate of what "is going on" and as far as i know this is the only way to get intel on the auctions.
I Think it will become clearer how to act "when the dust settles".
The only problems i see is that there could be better filter/sorting/searching options AND AN EASY WAY TO SEE WHAT TEAMS YOU ARE BIDDING ON (i use pen and paper...)
This is how we do it.
Rgds Qinby
By the way nice tool.
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
731
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Posted - 2014.09.06 00:01:00 -
[156] - Quote
Qinby wrote: Wouldn't that just result in that the winning bid ends up with the bid with the highest maximum BUT with the "smallest" possible margin?
In other Words the only effect would be to let the Winner to get of cheaper.
wrong, this is a well-known solution and the point is that it discourages doing anything but putting your actual max price you want to pay and then waiting for the auction to finish |
Qinby
ImNo6
6
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Posted - 2014.09.06 00:37:00 -
[157] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Hi everyone,
I'm going to read this properly tomorrow, but in the meantime I'm just dropping in to suggest that if you want to have a longer discussion about particular things, it'd be super helpful if you created a spin-off thread and link it from here, mainly because it makes it much easier for me to follow separate conversations when they're not interleaved :) What's all here is great, I'm just wary of coming back in the morning and finding ten pages about compression ;)
Thanks! -Greyscale
Did as you said.
Started a thread about the problem with to many BPO/BPC in the new Industry UI "a realy good idea"
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=371801&find=unread |
Qinby
ImNo6
37
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Posted - 2014.09.06 02:56:00 -
[158] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Qinby wrote: Wouldn't that just result in that the winning bid ends up with the bid with the highest maximum BUT with the "smallest" possible margin?
In other Words the only effect would be to let the Winner to get of cheaper.
wrong, this is a well-known solution and the point is that it discourages doing anything but putting your actual max price you want to pay and then waiting for the auction to finish as far as i know you can do that now :)
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War Porcika
Hamster Holding Corp
18
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Posted - 2014.09.06 08:24:00 -
[159] - Quote
Came back form a 2 month pause. Tried the new industry, - the new UI looks good, but it's way to big. I'm sure the upper half could be done in smaller. - My old BPO-s which were "perfect" - NO WASTE during production - in the old system are now only lvl 8 or 9. CRAP... Ok, let's do some research.. - Job costs are a CIRCUS, I'm sure the Crius name for the patch is oblivious. I have no f*king clue how this cost are calculated. Wanted to do a ME research, on X station, all bpo needed 2 lvl research. For one BPO the cost was 60k, for the other 1.5mil. what the *****. This is like you dropped a random number generator in the whole process. What is cheep to research on X station, the next bpo is cheap on Y station, this is just a big mess, there is now easy way to find where to produce what, without clicking through 10-20 stations.. So comparing to the old system, you need 5x more click to achieve the same cost effective installation.
I have no problem if the costs are dynamically changing, but this is way to much randomness. Basically it just renders the whole industry incalculable.
As in the current looks I will leave the industry part of the game, and most likely not activate the industry account anymore. -1 acc, well done CCP. |
Angie Chatter
15
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Posted - 2014.09.06 11:11:00 -
[160] - Quote
War Porcika wrote: I have no problem if the costs are dynamically changing, but this is way to much randomness. Basically it just renders the whole industry incalculable.
*chuckle* u are lucky right after Crius we only had the new "official" yaml Crest api, which had nearly no documentation and we had no easy way to check/import the needed values.
Now we have this nice 3d party xml api and all math is also checked and known now.
Formulas : IndustryFormulas.pdf XML API: api.eve-industry.org
Web API: www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/costindex.php
PS: Yeah the fact remains that u now need like 5 more steps to calculate precisely, so while the UI is a usability improvement, its also a step back and makes the math and underlaying systems even harder to calculate and understandable. Seems CCP always find way's to increase your out of game time and the "need" for third party tools and api's. |
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
140
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Posted - 2014.09.06 12:49:00 -
[161] - Quote
Qinby wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Qinby wrote: Wouldn't that just result in that the winning bid ends up with the bid with the highest maximum BUT with the "smallest" possible margin?
In other Words the only effect would be to let the Winner to get of cheaper.
wrong, this is a well-known solution and the point is that it discourages doing anything but putting your actual max price you want to pay and then waiting for the auction to finish as far as i know you can do that now :)
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
732
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Posted - 2014.09.06 13:42:00 -
[162] - Quote
Qinby wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Qinby wrote: Wouldn't that just result in that the winning bid ends up with the bid with the highest maximum BUT with the "smallest" possible margin?
In other Words the only effect would be to let the Winner to get of cheaper.
wrong, this is a well-known solution and the point is that it discourages doing anything but putting your actual max price you want to pay and then waiting for the auction to finish as far as i know you can do that now :) right now it's a non-optimal strategy
like i said this is a well-known solution and you are basically sitting here saying "metal? float? don't be absurd a ship can only be made of wood" |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
732
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Posted - 2014.09.06 14:09:00 -
[163] - Quote
bidding your actual highest price in an auction like this means that you will derive no benefit whatsoever from your teams
accordingly it is an immensely dumb bidding strategy |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
140
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Posted - 2014.09.06 15:11:00 -
[164] - Quote
I bid right at what i think it is worth to my competitors |
Matcha Mosburger
Manu Fortius
3
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Posted - 2014.09.06 18:21:00 -
[165] - Quote
Not sure if it was this way before Crius - but in other T2 hull not matching each other topics. The Minmatar Black Ops is the only Black Ops hip that doesn't require 3 Capital Jump Drives. Or at least it doesn't on the BPC (haven't built one no not sure if it's UI only). |
Circumstantial Evidence
138
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Posted - 2014.09.06 23:58:00 -
[166] - Quote
Matcha Mosburger wrote:Not sure if it was this way before Crius - but in other T2 hull not matching each other topics. The Minmatar Black Ops is the only Black Ops hip that doesn't require 3 Capital Jump Drives. Or at least it doesn't on the BPC (haven't built one no not sure if it's UI only). Read first post in thread by CCP Greyscale: known problem and will be fixed "soon."
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Circumstantial Evidence
138
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Posted - 2014.09.07 00:08:00 -
[167] - Quote
I have not delivered some invention jobs started just before Crius / completed after patch. All jobs included Decyrptors. I delivered ONE of them, and the UI showed consumed datacore materials in the job... but no "extra" items (Decryptor expected.) Should I expect this? Will those jobs get decryptor enhancements? I remember reading a player comment that decryptor use may have been lost in the transition to Crius. |
Malwadas Kadmos
Hostis Humani Generis.
3
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Posted - 2014.09.07 09:37:00 -
[168] - Quote
positive: -awesome job with the new industry ui! -teams are a good concept
negative: -bidding on teams, everyone who cant be in game when an auction runs out is at a disatvantage compared to those who can(maybe use a automatic biding system like e-bay where you place your max bid?). there should also be a sniper rule, maybe 5 min ? if someone outbids you in the last second you cant react. -would be nice to have a new industry skill which reduces the install cost of jobs, since those are very high now. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1522
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Posted - 2014.09.07 10:59:00 -
[169] - Quote
Malwadas Kadmos wrote: -would be nice to have a new industry skill which reduces the install cost of jobs, since those are very high now.
This won't happen as it would become a mandatory train to V before starting industry like the old ME skill was and they have said they don't want to do that. Also for note, the install costs are actually very low. Real world manufacturing the costs are often 90% of your final price, materials only 10%, EVE it's still the materials being most of your cost. |
Angie Chatter
15
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Posted - 2014.09.07 20:31:00 -
[170] - Quote
Just noticed some annoying filter problem regarding the "inventory Selection" filter tab for BPC. I have organized my BPC in containers, but since one container can only hold 1000 bpc i need multiple of those. I also tried organize the containers into separate devisions, but the filter tab won't show any divisions to filter anymore if all BPC are inside containers.
What i wanted was having all my containers of a certain type sitting in a separate devision and than select the devision so i all BPC inside this devision gets used. This is not possible atm and i need to manually juggle containers around so they don't show up.
So please add a way to filter by name on all BPC inside all containers inside a selected devision. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2561
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Posted - 2014.09.08 17:09:00 -
[171] - Quote
We're very much aware of the sniping issues, don't worry.
Czeris wrote:Why are the bpcs found in data/relic sites still me 0/0?
This feels like an oversight.
The ones that were in my inventory from pre crius were updated with enhanced me/pe just like all the other invention bpcs, but any new ones i find are 0/0 making them significantly worse than any invented ones. These bpcs were a nice, random bonus (since the vast majority are useless) but now they have all become largely worthless.
We discussed this and I think came to the conclusion that we should probably leave them as-is, as we'd prefer invented BPCs to be the primary source. We're aware that this devalues some sites somewhat, and it's something we will likely revisit after further invention changes are done. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2561
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Posted - 2014.09.08 17:35:00 -
[172] - Quote
Jon Lucien wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)
Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom) I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify. The formula should be [Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax] For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34I'm using 1 run for simplicity. System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api 2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2 Our Tax rate is 15% ( 1.15) 145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up. Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?1 4003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5 It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game
Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost.
(You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.) |
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
732
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Posted - 2014.09.08 18:07:00 -
[173] - Quote
By the way, we recently upgraded a caldari outpost, here: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/3QE-9Q
This has three factory improvements (don't ask) and should get -3% materials, but does not. I think that they're not working on any non-amarr. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1581
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Posted - 2014.09.08 18:09:00 -
[174] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Jon Lucien wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)
Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom) I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify. The formula should be [Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax] For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34I'm using 1 run for simplicity. System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api 2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2 Our Tax rate is 15% ( 1.15) 145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up. Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?14003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5 It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost. (You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)
Oh dear. This will change quite abit of our collected data then.
PS. Hopefully this gets enough eyeballs and it dramatically changes peoples planning. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
732
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Posted - 2014.09.08 18:19:00 -
[175] - Quote
I guess we are only a few weeks away from outproducing jita! |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2014.09.08 18:31:00 -
[176] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:I guess we are only a few weeks away from outproducing jita!
Obligatory "CCP Greyscale, please fix local mineral supply in null" comment here |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
734
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Posted - 2014.09.08 18:42:00 -
[177] - Quote
yeah man if we had decent minerals we could do great things (instead i think all of that is t2 ship production) |
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2014.09.08 19:01:00 -
[178] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:I guess we are only a few weeks away from outproducing jita! Obligatory "CCP Greyscale, please fix local mineral supply in null" comment here
Dont care about local mineral supply, that will never be enough anyway. Just want to be able to mass compress ores that doesn't involve 100 freighter trips to a pos every god damn day |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2014.09.08 19:32:00 -
[179] - Quote
Firvain wrote:Dont care about local mineral supply, that will never be enough anyway.
Local supply will never be enough for all supercap production, but at the moment it's not even enough for reasonable t1 production. (majorly short on mex/iso)
No one cares about titans anyways! (Death to all supercaps!) |
Mina Tors
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2014.09.08 19:45:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Jon Lucien wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)
Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom) I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify. The formula should be [Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax] For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34I'm using 1 run for simplicity. System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api 2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2 Our Tax rate is 15% ( 1.15) 145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up. Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?14003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5 It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game Oh. I see the problem. The system index listed by the API includes all the applicable station-type bonuses, so the 0.04 number you're getting has already been halved due to the outpost. (You'll note in the 3rd party blog it does not at any point direct you to multiply in the station bonuses; this is because they're already included in the index as just described.)
CCP: what happens when a system (hs or ls) has different types of stations and there is only one system index? Is the system index returned by the api incorrect?
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