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DrEiak
Amarr
IONSTAR
Vox Imperium
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Posted - 2006.08.06 03:26:00 -
[61]
Sure remove the cap if you want, but there might be code reasons for why the cap exists not just obscure game mechanics. Also anything over 150km is a distance that can be warped to, but i cant remember if CCP made it so that ships cant warp to other ships (that is kinda dumb I think).... I guess if you could though, sniping wouldnt work very well since your targets could warp in to range.
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Lorth
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.06 03:56:00 -
[62]
^^^ Well you can always just wait untill the first ship dies, then you have a cargo can to warp to. It surprises me why more people don't do that TBH.
But the problem with increasing the locking range is, it really only benifits the Rokh. All the other BS's ushally have a hard time to get an optimal, and a locking range that far. Especially with the new stacking nerfs, you can ushally do one, but not the other, ushally.
So in the end, you may very well have 350km fleet fights composed of primarly Rokh's and nothing else, since nothing else can actually lock and hit that far.
However, since we are talking about it. I think a couple changes should happen.
1: Increase the range on EW. Or conversly, increase the bonuses on EW ships (better option) Thats one of the reasons that fleet fights occur so far out, is no one wants to be jammed by a geddon at 100km, so they fight at 200km.
2: Tech 2 ammo. Yep anouther reason why fleet fights occur at such a great distance. If your fighting a industrial allience, you want to be at 200km. Reason being, is tech 2 guns and ammo give you such a huge advantage in that situation, especially when the other guys don't have it. The guy using tech 2 ammo is untouchable by anyone not doing the same.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2006.08.06 03:59:00 -
[63]
...and therin lies a solution. If one could warp to snipers over 150km away that would certainly disuade people from sniping at such ranges. The option would still be there to do so, the cap could be lifted (uless of course there is a code reason for keeping it). You can be sure some clever soul would find a tactical advantage to sniping at such a range (perhaps to divide an enemy fleet between several sniper groups) but I doubt it would be as unbalancing as 300km optimals with little option for retaliation.
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Clone runner
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Posted - 2006.08.06 04:10:00 -
[64]
in alot of areas you travel off the grid if u go much more than 250km in one direction which is probably the main reason for the cap
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2006.08.06 04:13:00 -
[65]
I think the 250km locking cap should stay, its sad, but it is necessary for game balance (even more so once the Rokh is released). Secondly, I think that ECM range should remain unchanged, you don't need ECM to counter snipers, there are other ways. Also, increasing the ECM range will lead to "ECM snipers" Scorpions sitting 250km away and jamming you while being very safe all the way out there. The real way to solve the sniper issue can be done in 1 of 2 ways.
Option #1: Remove the range/optimal of tracking disruptors entirely or else make their optimal + falloff allow them to still work at 250km ranges.
Option #2: NERF CALDARI (Sorry, I had to say it) Look at the Caldari rail boats (Harpy, Eagle, Rokh) They can easily double the range of most other ships their size (Rokh being the exception due to the targeting cap). If they are able to hit at such extreme ranges, why not give them a damage DE-buff. For example, 10% optimal range per level, but 5% reduced damage per level as well (The more rediculous the ranges get, the less the damage gets) Rokh shouldn't have a 10% range bonus anyway, it should be 5%, but thats a different thread.
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Kiah Khan
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Posted - 2006.08.06 04:19:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Kiah Khan on 06/08/2006 04:20:57
I think it would be fun if they let us warp to enemies that are over 200km or greater; but only let us warp as close as 50km. Or give only covt ops frigs that ability.
edit: I just noticed someone else in the thread mentioned something along these lines too.
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White Ronin
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Posted - 2006.08.06 05:19:00 -
[67]
Sniping is ok BUT it really borks the smaller ship classes.
Your sig radius should have more of an impact on the ability of another ship to target, hit and damage you based on distance.
Small objects are simply harder to hit the farther away you are from them.
Yes I understand the sniper is using sensor boosters BUT it is the same lock time whether 10km away or 250km and it just makes no sense that distance is not a factor.
I think distance should have an effect rather then the go/nogo situation we have now.
Carry on.
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DarK
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2006.08.06 05:19:00 -
[68]
 Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
I think the 250km locking cap should stay, its sad, but it is necessary for game balance (even more so once the Rokh is released). Secondly, I think that ECM range should remain unchanged, you don't need ECM to counter snipers, there are other ways. Also, increasing the ECM range will lead to "ECM snipers" Scorpions sitting 250km away and jamming you while being very safe all the way out there. The real way to solve the sniper issue can be done in 1 of 2 ways.
Option #1: Remove the range/optimal of tracking disruptors entirely or else make their optimal + falloff allow them to still work at 250km ranges.
Option #2: NERF CALDARI (Sorry, I had to say it) Look at the Caldari rail boats (Harpy, Eagle, Rokh) They can easily double the range of most other ships their size (Rokh being the exception due to the targeting cap). If they are able to hit at such extreme ranges, why not give them a damage DE-buff. For example, 10% optimal range per level, but 5% reduced damage per level as well (The more rediculous the ranges get, the less the damage gets) Rokh shouldn't have a 10% range bonus anyway, it should be 5%, but thats a different thread.
lawl
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Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.06 06:11:00 -
[69]
The devs said they'll most probably cut down the ranges of turrets anyway..
Small: 1x range (no change)
Medium: 1.5x small range
Large: 2x small range
No need to worry about locking range cap after this change IMO.
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Instagib
Amarr
Raptus Regaliter
Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.06 06:16:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Instagib on 06/08/2006 06:17:16
I like posting useless stuff so..
Max Optimal with stock fittings (T2/named) and logistics
Skills:
Sharpshooter lvl 5 (1.25x optimal bonus, no stacking)
Tools:
8x 425mm Railgun II (base 57km optimal)
1x Rokh (1.5x optimal bonus, no stacking penality)
320x Spike L (2.0x optimal bonus, no stacking penality)
Optimal: 1.25*57*1.5*2.0 = 213.75km
1x Hardwiring - Zainou 'Deadeye' ZGA1000 (1.05x optimal bonus, no stacking penality, slot 9)
Optimal: 213.75*1.05 = 224.4375km
Logistic:
1-2x Scythe (Minmatar Cruiser), Scimitar (Minmatar Logistic) or Oneiros (Gallente Logistic)
Special: 1.175x bonus to Tracking Links Minmatar crusier lvl 5 or logistic lvl 5 for Oneiros
5x Tracking Link II (1.075*1.175 => 1.263125 bonus to optimal, stacking penality!)
Stacking contants:
f(1) = 1
f(2) = 0.8708860
f(3) = 0.5705831
f(4) = 0.2829552
f(5) = 0.1059927
f(6) = 0.0299912
5x Tracking Link: (1+.263125*1)*(1+.263125*.8708860)*
(1+.263125*.5705831)*(1+.263125*.2829552)*(1+.263125*.1059927)
=> 1.972x optimal bonus with stacking factored
Final optimal: 224.4375*1.972 = 442.59km (+ falloff)
Note: With faction Tracking Links do not have higher optimal mod and TL on logistic/Scythe are the best optimal modifications you can get ingame, afaik. It could also be like 4km higher with the 6th LT, but I skipped it.
More to come.. Max locking range (if there was no limit)
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Instagib
Amarr
Raptus Regaliter
Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.06 07:13:00 -
[71]
Now that I've checked out gang stacking on Sisi...
Max locking range (if there was no limit)
Skills:
- Long Range Targetting Lvl 5: 1.25x bonus to locking range, no stacking penality
Gang:
- Information Warfare Mindlink: 1.15x bonus to locking range, no stacking penality (on sisi now at least)
Sensor boosters (have stacking penality):
- Stock T2/F-90: 1.6x (can also be remote T2)
- Best faction: 1.65x
- Best officer: 1.78x
4x Sensor booster mod (on ship base locking range):
- Stock: 1.25*1.15*(1+.6*1)*(1+.6*.8708860)
*(1+.6*.5705831)*(1+.6*.2829552) => 5.499x
- Faction: 1.25*1.15*(1+.65*1)*(1+.65*.8708860)
*(1+.65*.5705831)*(1+.65*.2829552) => 6.029x
- Officer: 1.25*1.15*(1+.78*1)*(1+.78*.8708860)
*(1+.78*.5705831)*(1+.78*.2829552) => 7.580x
5x Sensor booster mod (on ship base locking range):
- Stock: 5.499*(1+.6*.1059927) => 5.849x
- Faction: 6.029*(1+.65*.1059927) => 6.444x
- Officer: 7.580*(1+.78*.1059927) => 8.207x
Then...
Rokh (assuming 85km base locking range?):
4x SB
- Stock: 5.499*85 => 467.4km (good enough really)
- Faction: 6.029*85 => 512.5km (if you want to cover the falloff as well)
- Officer: 7.580*85 => 644.3km
5x SB
- Stock: 5.849*85 => 497.2km
- Faction: 6.444*85 => 547.7km
- Officer: 8.207*85 => 697.6km
Rook (highest base locking range ingame?, 150km)
5x SB
- Stock: 5.849*150 => 877.4km
- Faction: 6.444*150 => 966.6km
- Officer: 8.207*150 => 1231.1km (wtf :)
Not that those ranges have any practical meaning except on Rokh (see Max optimal post above).
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DroppedAschild
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Posted - 2006.08.10 18:28:00 -
[72]
crazy
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.10 18:58:00 -
[73]
Limiting long range battle to 100km? sure but first:
Phase 1
Take Mega Pulse with scorch from 65km to 20 km optimal
Take Neutron Blasters with Null from 30+km effective to 10km
make similar changes to all short range weapon systems (a/cs with fall off at 15km -L- torps at 40km on a Raven etc etc etc)
Phase 2
Cut all ship's max speed down to 30% of what is today. same for boost of afterburners and mwds and for boost of nanos and overdrives.
Phase 3
make warp to 5km possible on all objects.
Phase 3
tech I web 3.3 km scram 3km disrupt 8km
etc etc
If you want to uncap the max range of locking:
Leave guns as they are but give 50% more speed to all ships and speed mods etc. also 50% range to disuptors and webs and scrams. 50% range to EW etc.
One without the other? No way. Kthnx bye
[It never ceases to amze me how people think all things in eve are unbalanced even though they prtefer to fly the one they consider to be gimped... They probably think they "are fighting and winning heroically against all odds. LOL]
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chaos98
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Posted - 2006.08.13 14:32:00 -
[74]
umm, if anything the max speed should be increased...by alot...consider this, the speed of the space shuttle is aproximately 7800 m/s...are u telling me that far in the future things go slower and not faster?
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Harry Voyager
Obscurity LLC
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Posted - 2006.08.13 18:21:00 -
[75]
Has it ever occured to anyone that maybe the answer to Rocs with Spike isn't more Rocs with Spike, but rather Tempests with Quake?
Remember back when geddons could hit 60km with Pulse?
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InnerDrive
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Posted - 2006.08.13 19:02:00 -
[76]
I think the 250 km limit is there to avoid people going in and out of grid all the time while sniping.
So no i dont want to see it removed.
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MOCC3
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:17:00 -
[77]
I think 250km is fine. I'm a Temp sniper in training. as of now i got a opti of 130 which ain't far. But the Idea that( the 250km cap lifted) U can die at ranges over 350km is a bit silly.. Or the idea that 500km warfare can be done. At 200km EW is useless.. How do u fight back? U get to 210 km and shot back..lol.. If they wana fix it the 250km thing they need to fix the ammo/ships.
167 Opti is possiable with T1 and 1400 Art guns. Now that s a bit silly also..
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Sniser
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:35:00 -
[78]
i really hope they cut all ranges to >100km
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RichoDemus
Eve University
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Posted - 2006.08.13 20:44:00 -
[79]
Originally by: chaos98
umm, if anything the max speed should be increased...by alot...consider this, the speed of the space shuttle is aproximately 7800 m/s...are u telling me that far in the future things go slower and not faster?
This is a game, gameplay should ALWAYS have priority over realism
Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
SasRipper
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.13 21:15:00 -
[80]
cut max range to 149km
& change tech 2 into something useful
Originally by: Santiago Cortes
Please don't derail your own thread.
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Cuppycakes
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Posted - 2006.08.14 00:05:00 -
[81]
Originally by: chaos98
umm, if anything the max speed should be increased...by alot...consider this, the speed of the space shuttle is aproximately 7800 m/s...are u telling me that far in the future things go slower and not faster?
I agree with this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_shuttle
7,743 m/s.
When i fly around in my badger at 400 m/s with nanos and an ab i just want to cry.
Instead of nerfing range, boost speed.
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Permian
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Posted - 2006.08.14 00:51:00 -
[82]
And remove instas while you're at it. Am i allowed to say that?
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Foulis
Minmatar
Chosen Path
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Posted - 2006.08.14 04:08:00 -
[83]
Originally by: chaos98
umm, if anything the max speed should be increased...by alot...consider this, the speed of the space shuttle is aproximately 7800 m/s...are u telling me that far in the future things go slower and not faster?
The space shuttle can go 7800 m/s, which is 0.000026 times the speed of light.
An Ares class interceptor can go 2100000000000 m/s, which is 7000 times the speed of light.
And finally, it's a game.
----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Cathath > Imaran - Cathath
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.08.14 05:07:00 -
[84]
removing the cap would be stupid because everyone would field pure rokh fleets and if you didn't you would lose. Caldari doesn't need to be the end all for everything you know.
In rust we trust!!! |
Itaro Flagg
Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2006.08.14 07:31:00 -
[85]
Am I the other person in the world who remembers the dev's saying that theyre looking at unlinking dual modules? For example, making tracking computers so you can either boost range OR locking speed, but not both. Same with damage mods, etc etc.
But ya, I dont know why nobody thinks of this when discussing the omg broken sniping power of the Rokh. I personally won't have a worry about any of it, until I see what all will be changed with combat speed/range/etc. They devs have expressly said theyre changing the combat dynamics in terms of speed and range--so why do we think we can apply what we know now indefinately into the future of Eve?
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Prabms
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Posted - 2006.08.14 08:23:00 -
[86]
Remove the +100% range from long range t2 ammo and replace with as its in max t1 ammo +60%.
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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.14 08:47:00 -
[87]
It needs to be removed for sure since it is artifial like many ppl said and limits a full sniper setup with max skills and also i agree that T2 ammo range should be looked but as for Rohk fleet theroy well thats what the ship is desgied to extremly long range and lowest dmg as in comparison to other BS u wanan tackle it try to find a way to get closer , u dotn expect all fleets to be just standign at the 200 km mark and go pew pew each other , every ship has its unquie capability rohk is range and malestrom is alpha strike.
"What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
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Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.08.14 09:19:00 -
[88]
With my cruise missiles being able to travel approx. 268 km or so when using a raven (not sure on the exact number), I wouldn't mind having the locking range limit removed or increased in order to be able to use all of it.
However, that would also cause some new problems. As has already been mentioned a couple of times, the grids are probably not large enough to support a much higher locking range, so it'd probably be necessary to increase the grid size. Removing the cap for player ships but not for POS:es is obviously out of the question aswell.
Another thing to note is that according to a dev blog that was made a while ago they want to make combat more close range than it is today. That change, if implemented, would probably cause the current max locking range to be nothing more than an artificial cap that there is no point in even trying to reach.
My answer to whether the 250km cap should be removed or not is, therefore, simply "it depends on other related changed that may or may not occur".
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Boonaki
Caldari
Suffoco Noctis
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2006.08.14 10:19:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Mirasta
I would love to see the 250km cap removed, Replaced with a 150-175km cap on ranges.
Im so bored of 10 ships warpinging exchangeing a spatt of fire and then warping off.
With a shorter cap combat becomes more fluid, but this is a debate for another thread
Interdiction sphere missiles!!
My god, by far the best idea ever!! Screw the ops post, add in interdiction sphere missiles.
Fear the Ibis of doom! |
TerrorWOLF
J.H.E.N.R
Pure.
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Posted - 2006.08.14 10:46:00 -
[90]
Edited by: TerrorWOLF on 14/08/2006 10:45:52
Originally by: DrEiak
Sure remove the cap if you want, but there might be code reasons for why the cap exists not just obscure game mechanics. Also anything over 150km is a distance that can be warped to, but i cant remember if CCP made it so that ships cant warp to other ships (that is kinda dumb I think).... I guess if you could though, sniping wouldnt work very well since your targets could warp in to range.
255 is the max value of a unsinged byte.
May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
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