As promised some numbers for C1 to C4 wormholes. I'm semi limiting info as I don't want it to turn in to a slap fight of "ooh you can earn more if you do this or its optimal to do it this way" you want to do that fine run your own tests send me the numbers.

For C1 to C3 I used a tengu with 3 faction damage mods and max skills.
C4 was done with a paladin with 3 faction damage mods and max skills.

Interesting results, im surprised C4 income isn't that much higher than C3, the current state of C2 space looks depressing given the massive difference between it and C3 space and C1 income being higher. Did you experiment what the lowest form of ship could run each site?

Thanks corbexx for the effort.

The only problem is that the data is useless.

1. You have been paid nothing in the time interval you tested. I.e. you can still be ganked on the way to market.
2. You did this in a vacuum. (Sisi, no chance of being ganked)
3. Most corporations in a c4 do not run a single character so any payment will be split 2 or more ways
4. Applies mostly after Hyperion... 10 sites would have to spawn in the first place....

The quality of ship and level of skills differ a lot and will have a great inpact on how fast things are run as well though.

Its hardly useless its just a theoretical amount a single person can make. is only so many factors i can take in to account and getting ganked is sure as hell one I can't factor in reliably.

however if you want to make a more useful one please run your stuff and let me know what figures you get i'll happily pass it all on for you.

Considering that the number of sites in a system is limited I think it would be nice if you would add the ISK per site to that table.

Regarding accuracy: Shouldn't CCP be able to give you exact numbers for the chance of loot drops for each ship?
That way you could calculate exactly how much ISK a site will return on average.

The only problem is that the data is useless.

Thanks for your hard work Corbexx, much appreciated.

I would like future PVE changes to consider the impact of running solo vs in groups (in lower classes). I assume most people end up running solo as it is more profitable, but this runs against the idea of promoting group play in wormholes which IMO is a key driver in encouraging corporation growth & number of ppl out in wspace (aka content). Personally, i'd like C4 (and poss C3) to have some sites that are viable to run as a group without heavily penalising your income. Obviously there needs to be a balance between solo and group play, but it currently feels like a big divide between C1-C4 (solo) and C5-C6 (group).

Confirming C3 average income is exactly as in the spreadsheet based on literally hundreds and hundreds of C3s ran.

In C4s I've reached considerably higher figures, and heard others refer to the same approx. 200mil/hr.

Tengu is probably not ideal for C1-C2s due to sleeper ship size, but In any case, these figures are definitely in the right ballpark and the most important thing to get from them is the issue with C1 and C2 space. It's not any safer to run C2s than it is to run higher class sites, PVE surely is easier but risks remain the same.

These holes should be lucrative to newcomers to w-space, but in current EVE it's difficult to even fart and not make more isk/hr.

No insult intended, as stated, thank you for the time and effort. The problem is that miss information is worse than no information.

The sample and test case does not come close to realty. Sorry.

I totally agree here. More group activety would help alot.

Remember though, wh space is nice for a group of players to explore together, but not so much to include new people into the group once there. Due to the klunky POS's and access rights and so on. More/new better group content is all nice, but be able to facilitate more/bigger groups just as much I think.

Maybe a bit off topic, but from talking to several I came across over the years in lower end of wspace. People start out with a group of players, some go inactive and leave the game, and they have a hard time replace them due to fear risk thefts and so on.

I don't suppose you have or are willing to put up the c5 and c6 site income just to put the disparity in perspective?

The numbers feel about right from my experience. The short summary is that c1 and c2 space income via sites is useless looking at just your numbers. Factor in the scanning, securing, hauling and so on and it becomes damn right worthless. Bob forbid you try to share with someone else (like a newbie might do) or get ganked, it just becomes a stupid proposition comparing alternative Hs means of income.


You're starting to look better at the C3 and C4 stage but really if you consider the work you have to do for them and the real risk of getting ganked it doesn't look too flash hot now does it? What's l4 income? 100 mil an hour or so?

And you wonder why there aren't more people in low class whs...

I don't suppose you have or are willing to put up the c5 and c6 site income just to put the disparity in perspective

Remember though, wh space is nice for a group of players to explore together, but not so much to include new people into the group once there. Due to the klunky POS's and access rights and so on. More/new better group content is all nice, but be able to facilitate more/bigger groups just as much I think.

Maybe a bit off topic, but from talking to several I came across over the years in lower end of wspace. People start out with a group of players, some go inactive and leave the game, and they have a hard time replace them due to fear risk thefts and so on.

Just put the new people in their own POS. Pretty easy if you're not dumb tbh.

Thanks for all the hard work Corbexx. The numbers are interesting, especially the C1/C2 comparison and the C3/C4 delta.

I am a C4 resident and am concerned that the C4 numbers in isolation paint a very different picture to what is seen "on the ground" as it were. C1-C3 sites can be run effectively in a Drake solo - though clearly not at the speed you were doing in your testing. Class 4 sites [i]req

If you like a 20 toon corp in a c2, then set up multiple pos's maybe not the best economical choice.

If you like a 20 toon corp in a c2, then set up multiple pos's maybe not the best economical choice.

Stuff stuff stuff...

I'd like to give a huge thanks to people who helped me collect this info as it really help speed things up. This combined with the testing in small groups (up to 3 people) took close to 300 hours. I was up at 4 in the morning doing the last bit of maths for C4 sites the day I left for Iceland. So it would be ready for the summit.

As said if people want to argue I'll happily listen as long as they have the proof to back it up.

The non-escalationnumbers were in corbexx-¦s blog iirc and were rather unimpressive. Another benfit of small farmercorps that can run their homeescalations every day for a bit, while more active groups have to rely on mehish staticfarming. Ofc the new marauders changed that a bit but they also are rather highrisk.

Do not forget that this list is just a small representive part of wh-ratting. You will get better results with more optimal shipchoices (legion for c1s, carriers or fightersupport in homesites), you will get better results in synergizing group of 2+ ships, you will squeeze a bit more out by small tricks like better warpins and stuff. Even wormholeeffects will make a big difference in many holes.
As corbexx said, run a dozen plus, write everything down and give it to him.

From my experience a skills at 4 pilot in a drake will need almost two times as long for c3 sites and even has to warp out to recharge shields or cap in some sites. And that was the old fotm HM-drake.

From what I have seen the main difference between c3 and c4 ratting is not the isk/h but also how long you can sustain it. You have to look hard to find a c3 that you can-¦t clear out in one evening of playing, 2-3 hours easily do it. However when ratting for the same time in a c4, esp if it is your homesystem, you need way less sites ergo can do it not only when you are really lucky but once or twice a week for sure. While if you stack sites in your c3 to fit for 2+ hours of ratting someone else will probably clear it out in your off hours.

And noone in his right mind should compare those numbers to other kinds of income 1to1. Risk, no additional benefits like standings or secstatus, having to haul and sell it like LP are not factored in. Not to forget the single bomber that can take out your noctis/MTU/whatever or even just kill your wrecks and you walk away with nothing, while elsewhere you get your money in way shorter timeframe-"ticks".