Last time CCP released actual stats, blue loot only accounted for 18% of all PVE income in New Eden.

You would have to run these sites every day for around a month to get a truly accurate picture. Can't you just ask CCP for the data, corbexx?

I could even [test incursion income] on tranquility as its safe.

And right here is a HUGE draw for leaving W-space. Can't test sites on TQ because it's too dangerous, but incursions are perfectly safe to test.


Thanks for taking the time to collect this data. I'm trying to be optimistic that it will be addressed while also taking into account the (lack of) safety in W-space compared to Hisec, but it's not easy.

They have the drop tables with chances for all types of loot, as well as exact NPC compositions and chances for extras or other modifications. They could easily pick prices for one market day, and generate average values for each site, given the percentage chances for all drops, comparing it against number of NPCs and total EHP, DPS, and utility effects of each wave, to rate each site.

Given the numbers you've posted, is your impression that they are interested in getting more exact numbers of the kind only CCP can obtain? Or do they still only want to look at and talk about cap escalations and blanket apply that to all of W-space?


And speaking of cap escalations, given your experience and numbers for C5/C6, how would the income change if you could only cap escalate once?

CCP already knows what is going on with the state of W-space. We live out here because we WANT to at this point, not because it's particularly profitable.

If you really wanted to get down to the nitty gritty, station trading is the highest isk per hour activity with literally ZERO risk. But we aren't making those kinds of comparisons. That would address why W-space is slowly bleeding playerbase.

I don't suppose you have or are willing to put up the c5 and c6 site income just to put the disparity in perspective?

Thanks corbexx for the effort.

The only problem is that the data is useless.

1. You have been paid nothing in the time interval you tested. I.e. you can still be ganked on the way to market.
2. You did this in a vacuum. (Sisi, no chance of being ganked)
3. Most corporations in a c4 do not run a single character so any payment will be split 2 or more ways
4. Applies mostly after Hyperion... 10 sites would have to spawn in the first place....

Right got some info (and permission to post it).

This is for C6 fully escalated sites 171 sites run (so HUGE sample size compared to the c1 to c4 stuff as its cap escalations doesnt matter what site since we dont do them just the escalation.)

Average of 690million per site. Average of 7 minutes 42 seconds per site. Average of 270 mill/hour per person.

Better than C4 to C1 but thats fully escalated and with a fair sized group, if you had just 5 people you would make alot more. without cap escalation its going to drop a **** load maybe half that, potentially less.

I think you missed the point. And he litterally addressed alk yourpoints in the OP.

Read before posting kids

Right got some info (and permission to post it).

This is for C6 fully escalated sites 171 sites run (so HUGE sample size compared to the c1 to c4 stuff as its cap escalations doesnt matter what site since we dont do them just the escalation.)

Average of 690million per site. Average of 7 minutes 42 seconds per site. Average of 270 mill/hour per person.

Better than C4 to C1 but thats fully escalated and with a fair sized group, if you had just 5 people you would make alot more. without cap escalation its going to drop a **** load maybe half that, potentially less.

This is for C6 fully escalated sites 171 sites run (so HUGE sample size compared to the c1 to c4 stuff as its cap escalations doesnt matter what site since we dont do them just the escalation.)

Average of 690million per site. Average of 7 minutes 42 seconds per site. Average of 270 mill/hour per person.

I like that youre posting these numbers but this is highly inefficient for escalations so I'm assuming you run sites with a ton of people that aren't needed.

if you look at minimum numbers, you have 4 cap pilots, loki, booster, salvager. I'm calling this 6 pilots as at the very least the booster or salvager is an alt.

A crew like this can very comfortably run 4 sites an hour including all travel and salvage (5 if theyre any good).
(This is just warping to the site at zero, no making BMs or whatever)

At 700m/site this works out to (700 x 4)/6 = 466mil/hour/toon
Obviously this scales very fast if you start using alts.

That said, you numbers do post a more accurate value for a large corp that involves many people in their site running so also good to know.

Interesting results, im surprised C4 income isn't that much higher than C3, the current state of C2 space looks depressing given the massive difference between it and C3 space and C1 income being higher. Did you experiment what the lowest form of ship could run each site?

Looks good Corbexx, good work.

So now you've seen this, what are your thoughts on improving things?.

Personally I feel the biggest issue is that the %age of total isk from nano's is the wrong way around. The higher the WH class, the more of the total loot payout should be from nano's and other loot, rather than blues. Theoretically that'd make things a bit more stable for lower groups and be a disincentive to farmer groups.

Pushing CCP to do the T3 balance sooner rather than later would also help a lot to get nanoribbon prices back up more. Assuming of course they don't break all T3's to uselessness in the process :P

Looks good Corbexx, good work.

So now you've seen this, what are your thoughts on improving things?.

Personally I feel the biggest issue is that the %age of total isk from nano's is the wrong way around. The higher the WH class, the more of the total loot payout should be from nano's and other loot, rather than blues. Theoretically that'd make things a bit more stable for lower groups and be a disincentive to farmer groups.

Pushing CCP to do the T3 balance sooner rather than later would also help a lot to get nanoribbon prices back up more. Assuming of course they don't break all T3's to uselessness in the process :P

This is basically spot on. If we wanted max isk it woudlbe station trading then incursions. as you said we live in wormholes cos we like it. The issue is we really need to intice more more people in, and that means incentives.

If we wanted to make ISK we would be station traders. We live in wormholes because we like it.
vs
We need to entice more people into wormholes, so we need better incentives.

Looks good Corbexx, good work.

So now you've seen this, what are your thoughts on improving things?.

Personally I feel the biggest issue is that the %age of total isk from nano's is the wrong way around. The higher the WH class, the more of the total loot payout should be from nano's and other loot, rather than blues. Theoretically that'd make things a bit more stable for lower groups and be a disincentive to farmer groups.

Pushing CCP to do the T3 balance sooner rather than later would also help a lot to get nanoribbon prices back up more. Assuming of course they don't break all T3's to uselessness in the process :P

It scares me that they are making Reverse Engineering changes and as they realise that it will affect profit margins of the RE builders (like me) they have said they would look at changing the drop rate of MNR's. It shocks me that that alone hasn't scared more people that they would make such a major change based on the income stream of a HS industrial player and not think of the consequences to a WH resident that relies on that for their daily income.