Instant undocks are your friend.

I have recently encountered this type of players, they are in militia, they camp a starbase in enemy highsec and shoot everyone in opposing militia who attempts to leave. Those few navy ships that attack them are easily tanked.

Did CCP really mean this to happen, the description of those navy ships clearly states that they will call for reinforcements, but they do not do so here, although their capsuleer allies are getting destroyed.

My point is, if the navy squad engaging the wartarget fails to destroy it in, let's say a minute, another squad should spawn, and another and another. The current situation is quite ridiculous for me.

.... don't rely on NPCs get a group together and kill him. I do wish that enemy militia could not doc in a hostile faction station in hostile space

Instant undocks are your friend.

They are, but that is not my point. My point is absoulute lack of logic in this game mechanic, I presume reinforcements for navy would spawn after attacking/destroying those navy ships, but are those men in them so stupid that they do not realize they can't destroy the enemy without reinforcements?

It seems most of you did not get it, although I clearly stated it, and had only some insults to say.

Good job.

But I am patient and will try it again: It's hisec, and NPC's are supposed to have it under control.

It seems most of you did not get it, although I clearly stated it, and had only some insults to say.

Good job.
-¿
But I am patient and will try it again: It's hisec, and NPC's are supposed to have it under control.

You really need to stop this, all you do is insulting me without understanding what I mean.

Just read the description of Faction warfare (Attacked by strong faction navy, not by an adorable pack of puppies) and navy vessels (It can call in reinforcements if the need arises), that's all you need to know.
+Use your common sense, that should help. With navies as weak as this, capsuleers should be in control of all known space.

dont expect anything of npcs, you bring shame to Ralphs every where

Except for two things: Concord and the Jovians. Read the lore before you start spouting off and make yourself look even more foolish. Concord punishes the evil doer in highsec, and you being in a war makes it okay to shoot wartargets. There is also a balance of power within highsec that the Jovians have stepped in to maintain before, which is why your battles for territory occur in lowsec.

Ok, you won't stop insulting me, so I will just ignore comments with insults, write it again and without insulting me.

It's not an insult to call you foolish when you're being a fool.

+Use your common sense, that should help. With navies as weak as this, capsuleers should be in control of all known space.

It is, you are presumably one of those campers, attempts to discuss the logic about these things always lure dumbasses who are fond of it. Who start shitstorming in attempt to make others think that the author is stupid so they do not support his idea.

Now you get the picture.....if fw so chose to this could happen. One side is doing this in your setup. They come in a force to take on the npc navy and your player based response.

Its now on your faction to counter this (properly) . Camp breaking fleets, doing the same thing in their space, etc.



CCP only cares about keeping gankers in check in empire and that is why concord is uber. The backstory to that is quite funny. Long ago concord was not uber. As iirc a larger crew (not sure if alliance or coalition...someone who knows please add details) made empire systems their private playgrounds. Tanked and killed concord and whoever else was in it. This while amusing was kind of bad for the game. So concord got buffed hard.

Your FW is advertised as pvp. Player vs Player...its on the factions to make their meta, not have it influenced by npc's. Put another if a FW faction can't scare up the peeps to run a camp breaking fleet, sucks to be them. Not being an ass here...I am jaded from 0.0. One of my signs it was time to leave a home was can this alliance be assed enough to at least keep their station systems clear of overt power plays. If they are failing to do that....said alliance has issues. Usually failscade arises from this. As it did with 2 alliances I was in.


Is it just bad luck and we'll say PL and goons set aside differences to bum rush your ass en masse, or is leadership just that bad and its scrubs camping you hard. Former...thats eve lol. Latter....find new homes for pvp my recommendation. Granted FW can't faliscade and evaporate off the server. Doesn't mean you have to flounder around in sea of crap either though.

And I also didn't know that factions have only 3 ships guarding their space

Because you can't be assed to learn what it is you're talking about before you disgorge your nonsense onto the forums.

It's obvious by this quoted post that you have no idea how the faction Navy spawns work or can be manipulated to allow for this behavior.

And I thought that high security space means high security space. And I also didn't know that factions have only 3 ships guarding their space

Look at this, folks. Let the insults fly!

Your vitriol doesn't change the fact that your suggestion and continued defense of it in the face of every reason given to you why it's wrong is foolish. Ergo, you are being foolish.

There is absolutely no way that a FW war target is reliably camping you into a station, while simultaneously tanking the faction navy. You are the one that is doing it wrong; you simply refuse to use the tools given to you by CCP to avoid being camped in.

when you signed up for fw you gave that up dude. You made yourself a WT 23.5/7 to the other faction.


When someone has you wt red....no place is safe.

Well, in real situation, it will be something like WT arty Hurricane with 3-4 "neutral" logi sitting at station docking range, so NPC damage is easily tanked. A few militia BC / BS can easily "fix" this issue, but... they just don't care. :)

Get out.

I came here to tell you about the lack of logic in the current system, and you responded with insults, be ashamed.

Well, in real situation, it will be something like WT arty Hurricane with 3-4 "neutral" logi sitting at station docking range, so NPC damage is easily tanked. A few militia BC / BS can easily "fix" this issue, but... they just don't care. :)

maybe the factions should form a militia and hire such pilots

This is utter nonsense.

Why would capsuleers want to engage in combat with other capsuleers, when CCP can make NPCs do it for them?

Dunnno, ask OP as that is obviously what he wants to happen.

Because high sec is supposed to be criminals/wartargets free. High sec means high security space I believe, even for war.
+War is supposed to be kept out of highsec and stay i lowsec space.

suddenly it hits me.... Troll post

Because high sec is supposed to be criminals/wartargets free. High sec means high security space I believe, even for war.
+War is supposed to be kept out of highsec and stay i lowsec space.

Either a troll or you really missed some of the bigger themes of EVE.

High-sec is safer relative to low-sec... low-sec is safer relative to null-sec... null-sec is safer relative to wormhole space.

The key words here are "safer relative to." What you are effectively asking for (in your last post) is not "high-security" but "total-security"... which does not exist in EVE. At all.

It even says as much so in the Official New Player FAQ (located in one of the sticky threads in this subforum).

Criminals can fly anywhere they want to in the game and perform any activity they wish... provided they are willing to deal with the inconveniences resulting from their poor security rating (attacked by NPC police, can be attacked by players).

War declarations apply anywhere and everywhere in EVE, regardless of system security rating. And unlike Faction Warfare, no NPCs will assist anyone in a normal war-dec in any way, shape, or form.
Count your blessings. You have an edge (however large or small).

I know, but this has nothing to do with the passivity of NPC navy, when a war target enters space they are supposed to protect.

I know, but this has nothing to do with the passivity of NPC navy, when a war target enters space they are supposed to protect.

No. Mechanics-wise they are supposed to "discourage," but not outright prevent, people from attacking.

YOUR job as a person in Faction Warfare is to kill people.


Again... be grateful that you have NPCs doing that much. In a normal war declaration there is no NPC involvement (beyond the initial war fees).

This thread is amazing, you're all doing a bang up job in here.

It's factional warfare you know, and I do not believe they want enemies in their high security space.

Don't you find it ridiculous that navy vessels are able to shoot them for several hours, unable to destroy it, without calling for reinforcements (from their navy, not from militia). Because navies are supposed to protect hisec space from threats, they leave lowsec (mostly) for capsuleers. Here, they are unable to protect their highsec space, which says something about the strenght of the empires.

Btw. there are also groups (marmites) that wardec non-pvp corps and harass them by camping the stations and gates (in Uedama most of the time).

I think you are putting too much weight on your own preconceived notions on how things should be (which you are trying to support by pointing out misnomers).

Again... high-sec was NEVER designed to be safe by any stretch of the imagination.

And no NPC in the game was ever designed to "protect." CONCORD, Faction Police, Faction Navy... they are all reactionary/punitive mechanics that exact a "price"/"penalty" for your actions without actually stopping you from doing whatever you want to do.

If you, the player, want to stop something from happening... it is up to YOU to stop it.


And?

There is no such thing as "non-PvP" in this game. Miners and industrialists affect the market... which means that they affect other people's abilities to perform activities (such as wage war).
So other people with different playstyles are given the same courtesy.

Again... it is up to the player to secure themselves against other players... any way they can.

Btw. there are also groups (marmites) that wardec non-pvp corps and harass them by camping the stations and gates (in Uedama most of the time).

They are, but that is not my point. My point is absoulute lack of logic in this game mechanic, I presume reinforcements for navy would spawn after attacking/destroying those navy ships, but are those men in them so stupid that they do not realize they can't destroy the enemy without reinforcements?

This is a big problem in choke point systems like Litiura where it seems like every frog and his mother have set up a gate camp there at least once. There have been multiple threads detailing everything from enemy hisec gate lockouts to hisec station lockouts, but the core of the issue comes back to the customs police and navy not having any teeth to fight back against these pirates. If they make them stronger, I think that will solve all the issues people are currently facing with this.

Who said you were supposed to be overwhelmingly attacked by npcs

Every time I enter gallente space a megathron tries to buttsecs me ;/ And even with lube it hurts. I was in deadspace pocket and they warp to me :(

I have recently encountered this type of players, they are in militia, they camp a starbase in enemy highsec and shoot everyone in opposing militia who attempts to leave. Those few navy ships that attack them are easily tanked.

Did CCP really mean this to happen, the description of those navy ships clearly states that they will call for reinforcements, but they do not do so here, although their capsuleer allies are getting destroyed.

My point is, if the navy squad engaging the wartarget fails to destroy it in, let's say a minute, another squad should spawn, and another and another + They should get sentry gun agression, sentries are supposed to protect places they are assigned to defend, aren't they?. The current situation is quite ridiculous for me.

No sympathy from me. Gallente camped Jita undock for over a year with t2 battleships and the occasional t3. Occasionally we'd get one if they were in a tornado or something. Couldn't band up against them because of their militia alt spies; theyd dock up. Or better yet, they had neutral t2 logi alts to ensure a victory.

Minmatar camp Litiura, the route from cal/gal fw space to jita in loki's and proteus's, and interceptors, with neutral logi warping in at 60km. Same situation as aove, spai alts and docking up.

Don't you find it ridiculous that navy vessels are able to shoot them for several hours, unable to destroy it, without calling for reinforcements (from their navy, not from militia).

like using a logi to help them tank CONCORD.

Yeah, using a neutral logi to help them tank navy is a pure exploit, like using a logi to help them tank CONCORD.

This is a big problem in choke point systems like Litiura where it seems like every frog and his mother have set up a gate camp there at least once. There have been multiple threads detailing everything from enemy hisec gate lockouts to hisec station lockouts, but the core of the issue comes back to the customs police and navy not having any teeth to fight back against these pirates. If they make them stronger, I think that will solve all the issues people are currently facing with this.

maybe you are just an idiot and not a troll can't tank concord and neut logi aren't an exploit

No, you are, and you should refresh your knowledge of eve, logis were once used to tank concord (Yulai massacre), because assisting a criminal was not a criminal offence back then.

Read bolded part.

OP, does your Daddy know you're shiptoasting with his account?

Read bolded part.

OP, does your Daddy know you're shiptoasting with his account?

not his fault daddy stays logged in when he goes drinking. OP probably just wants the attention papa never gave

Because high sec is supposed to be criminals/wartargets free. High sec means high security space I believe, even for war.
+War is supposed to be kept out of highsec and stay i lowsec space.

HTFU or GTFO.

None of you actually understood my concerns. Which is that navies are unable to call for reinforcements in case they fail to destroy the enemy.

One good way is to use an alt who ISN'T in a militia. When you buy items, buy them remotely. Then contract them over to your alt via courier contract and have your alt pick up and deliver your items. If you're selling, it's pretty much the same process in reverse. Contract the items over to your alt and have the alt sell them, then send the isk back to your main. The key part here is to NOT have your alt in any of the militias. I say again, do NOT have your alt in a militia. Otherwise, you'll have an industrial ship flying around with your contract with a huge orange sign that says "I'M AN IDIOT CARRYING GOODIES, COME POP ME AND STEAL ALL MY STUFF!!!!" If the WTs are smart (which they often are) they'll scan your cargo to see if your full or empty. If you're empty, they'll let you dock and wait for you to undock with goodies in your cargo. If you're full, they'll agro you so the station won't let you dock and then they'll pop you. Insta docks/warps can be helpful in this situation, provided you can tank the damage long enough to align (I believe the Evasive Maneuvers skill will allow you to align more quickly). On the other hand, if the enemies aren't smart or just don't feel like putting a whole lot of thought into it (which also happens often), they'll just pop you indiscriminately and wave the kill mail in your face. Sometimes they'll be nice enough to sell your corpse back to you so you can get some of your implants back. :,D LOL!!

Someone else said it earlier. If you're in FW, then you ARE your faction navy's "reiniforcements".

Besides, what do you want the navy to do? Call everyone away from one of the other stations or gates, leaving security at that particular station or gate reduced? That's kinda selfish, dontcha think? Maybe you weren't aware, but there isn't an infinite number of navy ships just waiting to appear out of nowhere for YOUR sake. Only so many of them can spawn. Otherwise, the reinforcements will end up needing to call in reinforcements, and the reinforcement's reinforcements will need to call in MORE reinforcements, and then you have over populated space around the station. It'll look like Jita 4-4, only it'll be mostly NPCs. Boy, wouldn't THAT be frikkin awesome!

Why should the navy be available to provide reinforcements for YOU, anyway? Why should the navy say "**** you" to everyone else because the high and mighty Ralph Shepard is inadequately prepared for hostile situations? Maybe you're getting camped at one station and I'm getting camped at another station. Maybe you and I are even in the same militia. What am I to think when the Navy skips town to come help YOU out and leaves me to the wolves? Oh right... I'll probably be thinking, "Damn, I shoulda used an alt" or "damn, I shoulda used my insta". Maybe I'll just think, "must not be my lucky day" and I'll move on with my life instead of crying about it. But you won't be thinking about that, will you? You'll only be thinking about yourself. How very magnanimous of you....

It's highsec, highsec, and their behaviour lacks any logic!!!

You want to be taken seriously, stop acting like you're 5 years old. What part of single shard PvP sandbox is confusing to you? Your original post is this game's equivalent to running to your mommy looking to get your skinned knee kissed cause you tripped and fell.

Come up with an idea or argument that isn't counter to everything this game stands for and you won't get as much ridicule.

Either way, HTFU or GTFO.

The only real solution for this problem is for CCP to quit babying the pseudo PVPers and taking the safety from engaging on undocks. The aggressor on a station undock should have to wait an aggression timer + an additional timer that comes from initiating aggression within range of a station, this timer would increase exponentially as long they keep aggressing in range of said station. Tired of all these low IQ moronic undock campers being protected for their mindless idiotic gameplay just cause CCP wants their subs.

This is a space game and people spend it sitting outside a station their entire life. Not once ever hunting down a target.

The only real solution for this problem is for CCP to quit babying the pseudo PVPers and taking the safety from engaging on undocks. The aggressor on a station undock should have to wait an aggression timer + an additional timer that comes from initiating aggression within range of a station, this timer would increase exponentially as long they keep aggressing in range of said station. Tired of all these low IQ moronic undock campers being protected for their mindless idiotic gameplay just cause CCP wants their subs.

This is a space game and people spend it sitting outside a station their entire life. Not once ever hunting down a target.

It is true that instant undock bookmarks make such campers irrelevant, but the point has merit -- enemy police really should not be so easy to permanently tank. A very simple solution to make the police actually worth something is have them tackle and possibly apply other EWAR as well (neuting, damping, etc., depending on which faction's police they are). It could still be doable, but these guys would have to work at least a little bit harder to pop newb after never-ending newb.

This is several steps too many.

1. Give ISK to your neutral alt.
2. Have neutral alt buy stuffs and haul.
3. Then contract stuffs.

Also, always follow all anti-ganking advice, which includes the creation of insta-dock and insta-warp bookmarks. If you have to haul anything shiney, do so in a Blockade Runner, which cannot be cargo scanned.

Warp Core Stabs -- a FW pilot's best friend!

A lot of handy tips in this thread ... once you weed out the snide. OPs original point still makes sense, however, that the game should make highsec relatively safe... ganking parties from hostile factions should not be able to camp any highsec station of a different faction.

Pulling Navy away from more important things? Rank excrement. NPCs are instaspawn from bottomless aether, limited only by numbers in the program. Want 300 scorpions to back you up? It's a number in a spreadsheet somewhere.

What is high sec if it's not High Security?

Most of the people arguing that all the limiters against predation should be removed are predators themselves. But little ones. They're the people who can't actually get it together to hunt experienced players in null sec, or hard missions. But they know enough tricks to prey on the new people, or the people who just aren't PVP oriented. They're little tuna, not great whites. Nullsec should be anything goes. HIghsec should be... High. Sec.