This change, combined with the already low income in low class systems ought to really get people excited for wspace :-\

It might just be a bug. And if it's an "overlooked activation of a feature that never worked" that's crippling income of all wormhole sites, then sleepers will likely have the RR nerfed or taken away.

Or its working as intended

Either way we shall see. Just putting out there that with all the work corbexx has done and is doing regarding wspace income in regards to population draw making sites require MORE people to complete and split is a quick way to exacerbate the problems.

Part of this I do know about. I'll be checking with CCP in a hour or so (when they get in the office) on if i can mention about it, or ask if they can post.

The Mara Paleo Incursion NPC now remote repairs correctly.

For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.



The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.

For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.



The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.

For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.



The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.

They are now once again working at original spec.

So, Corbexx, time for a C4 site re-run to see how long it takes?

You do realize what this does to the already shi tty low class income, right?

If you want to get rid of w-space for some reason you can just delete it, instead of slowly nerfing it to death. Would save us all a lot of trouble.

A shorter time running sites means more income, thus less prices.
In all logic, this nerf should slowly increase the prices for nanoribbons...
Maybe.
A bit... ?
)

For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.



The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.

corbexx => there goes all the hard work you've done in listing how long it would take to run a site and in which ships it's possible or not. Seems like you did it all for nothing

Also: it would have been nice to know this BEFORE the patch. And not the moment that you are trying to run a site.

Well i hope that income balance comes soon or i see alot of players getting to choose between move out of c1 - c4 wh space and play the game a different way or unsub and come back if and when it gets fixed. I know what my choice will be.

When exactly was the sleeper RR broken in the first place? Because I remember that when I first did c4 sites it was extremely slow because I could barely break the sleepers' tank in some sites. Two years or so later I again started doing c4 sites and was much, much faster. Is assumed it's because I used a different method and had better skills, but maybe it was just because their RR was now broken...?

And all those players will come back to wh when this balance has happened. It-¦s just a question how you adapt in the meantime.

And all those players will come back to wh when this balance has happened. It-¦s just a question how you adapt in the meantime.

Yeah, how about taking a balancing pass on the sites in light of their increased difficulty now.

You wormhole pubbies are such entitled babies. Is working for your isk a foreign concept?

C4 and upwards doesn't really bother me as I've always thought that should require a team effort, 1-3 might need a bit of tweaking though.

Is working for your isk a foreign concept?

GoonWaffe

You wormhole pubbies are such entitled babies. Is working for your isk a foreign concept?

haha wormholers got screwed

goback2highsec and get in line to run incursions with everyone else you poors

You wormhole pubbies are such entitled babies. Is working for your isk a foreign concept?

For C5/6 i see this as an irritation that will be overcome but for the people running sites in C1-4 some sites are just going to become extra painful to run to the point they will have to field more ships or upsize ship choices for NO EXTRA reward in an area of WH space that is already sub par in ISK reward/effort/risk.

I really hope CCP would start looking at implications for changes before "fixing" things.

translation:
"Hello, I'm a little bluesec pubbie. I have infinitely respawning sites that I can run 24/7 in a cheap BS for 100+mio isk/h without any risk unless I fall asleep."

For C5/6 i see this as an irritation that will be overcome but for the people running sites in C1-4 some sites are just going to become extra painful to run to the point they will have to field more ships or upsize ship choices for NO EXTRA reward in an area of WH space that is already sub par in ISK reward/effort/risk.

I really hope CCP would start looking at implications for changes before "fixing" things.

Hah I actually have to risk things for my isk, you guys on the other hand basically get it freely handed to you. Hell even the incursion people have to deal with more risk than you do because of ganking.

Oh look, goontrolls wandered in here again begging for attention.

About this fix screwing over lowerclasses, correct me if I am wrong but isn-¦t there only more than one BS preserver in the harder c3 radar and two c4 sites. Only one Preserver per wave just tells you what to shoot first.

There are 3 Preservers in the C4 command post's last spawn

Ouch if my maths is right the last wave on the Frontier Command Post with RR actually properly working can keep the defenders up against almost 1k dps (applied) - so obviously don't go for those first

Oh look, goontrolls wandered in here again begging for attention.

About this fix screwing over lowerclasses, correct me if I am wrong but isn-¦t there only more than one BS preserver in the harder c3 radar and two c4 sites. Only one Preserver per wave just tells you what to shoot first.

haha wormholers got screwed

goback2highsec and get in line to run incursions with everyone else you poors

Hah I actually have to risk things for my isk, you guys on the other hand basically get it freely handed to you. Hell even the incursion people have to deal with more risk than you do because of ganking.

As per my post in the other thread:

I don't know man, you should try it some day.. AFKtar all day, amirite?

Hah I actually have to risk things for my isk, you guys on the other hand basically get it freely handed to you. Hell even the incursion people have to deal with more risk than you do because of ganking.

Ahem. Technetium?

Hah I actually have to risk things for my isk, you guys on the other hand basically get it freely handed to you. Hell even the incursion people have to deal with more risk than you do because of ganking.

translation:
"Hello, I'm a little bluesec pubbie. I have infinitely respawning sites that I can run 24/7 in a cheap BS for 100+mio isk/h without any risk unless I fall asleep."

You still think they will fix this someday?

Hyperion release was over a month ago... and what did they do to address the concerns that the players expressed?
No "yes, there might be an issue" or "we'll look into that" but instead more nerfs to w-space.

Just look at how Fozzie responded to this thread: No mention that they might look into the implications this has for w-space or even change anything about it - he just states that the nerf is intended. Hell, corbexx had to literally drag him in here to at least tell us that they nerfed w-space again.

Don't be illusional. CCP doesn't give a sh*t about w-space. There won't be any fix for this mess.

You wormhole pubbies are such entitled babies. Is working for your isk a foreign concept?

Hah I actually have to risk things for my isk, you guys on the other hand basically get it freely handed to you. Hell even the incursion people have to deal with more risk than you do because of ganking.

fk's sake. what IS it with the whiney BS attitude in WHs these days?
back in my day, sleepers RRed and got bonused in cataclysmics. now THAT was a grind fest.

PS: these changes have actual zero impact on cap escalation income/difficulty though solo marauders are probably entering sad phase.

I would like to take a moment to thank CCP for fueling the whining-bitching fire for another week or two while all these "hardened" players throw tantrums like sweets-deprived 5-year old. Talk about how "elite" you are and how much better you are than those casual k-spacers, but the moment something even remotely disturbs the equilibrium tear geysers just start erupting. Pls HTFU, it's embarrassing

You're trying too hard

For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.



The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.

As stated, more than once already in this gestational threadnaught, this will likely have little effect on cap escalation fleets.

Low class systems drive wspace population though. Longer site completion times for lower class systems will likely mean fewer people willing to do them/move in.

What has to get fixed?
...

The only reason why we don-¦t do any C4 Sites at the moment is that its income is like you-¦re doing group mining in Highsec! (With a way more risk).
...

From my point of view there are just 2 things that must be fixed in the future.

1) Comunication between CCP and their customers.
2) Changing C1 - C4 (I don-¦t like to say low class, as there are no big differences in WH classes left) income abilities. The risk/reward ratio has to be right again.

The only people truly affected by this are C4 residents/farmers,

So far I haven't seen any valid/reasoned statements... Just complaining. The facts are that something that was once broken is fixed, for better or for worse, and that sites will take longer now.

You wormhole pubbies are such entitled babies. Is working for your isk a foreign concept?

You have to be kidding right? One could hardly consider sitting in an afk Ishtar deep in the rectal cavity of Deklein as either A) work or B) risky.

ESPECIALLY when you consider there is local and an intel channel to inform you of any non blue within 20 jumps to your ratting system....

Ask me how I know.......

haha wormholers got screwed

goback2highsec and get in line to run incursions with everyone else you poors

Also as stated it has little/no effect on C1-3 space. The only people truly affected by this are C4 residents/farmers, but I'll be damned if the sky isn't falling yet again.

Rolled Out is re.... oh wait, better not say that again.

I run C4 sites currently for 200mil/hr average, and can probably negate this RR issue by switching to blasters for those anoms/waves. It might affect the completion times, but I don't think the change is dramatic.

You wormhole pubbies are such entitled babies. Is working for your isk a foreign concept?

maybe next week I'll go run all the sites again on sisi and put in new numbers so we can see what the effect will potentially be.

Blasters would give you the DPS for those waves but you might find range an issue in some cases, also there are 1-2 waves like the last one on the outpost where you might not be able to apply enough effective dps from a single marauder to break the RR though.

Hah I actually have to risk things for my isk, you guys on the other hand basically get it freely handed to you. Hell even the incursion people have to deal with more risk than you do because of ganking.

You wormhole pubbies are such entitled babies. Is working for your isk a foreign concept?

I don't normally troll but.

Where is your god now https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5070339#post5070339

C4 SpaceHuge nerf to soloability and site time of the 2 most common sites
Barracks
The final wave is an RR nightmare, there is as much as 965-1126dps in reps. All the ships spawn hundreds of K off and will try to stay at range. This is also a pretty common site.

Command Post
Stupid 1000+dps in reps in the final wave, another huge nerf

I don't normally troll but.

Where is your god now https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5070339#post5070339

Yep, I need to test it. Rails are more convenient, but MJD+bastion+blasters worked well enough for complete anoms.

If switching to blasters doesn't work, I'm afraid it's time for me personally to forget C4s for money making. At 200mil/hr it's well balanced for the risks and investment, but if I need to split that, I'd be better be running C3s in a Domi duo. Or running DEDs in lowsec.

You're dumb

I would like to take a moment to thank CCP for fueling the whining-bitching fire for another week or two while all these "hardened" players throw tantrums like sweets-deprived 5-year old. Talk about how "elite" you are and how much better you are than those casual k-spacers, but the moment something even remotely disturbs the equilibrium tear geysers just start erupting. Pls HTFU, it's embarrassing

It seems your air quotes and hyperbole are required elsewhere. It's funny, I thought it'd take longer than that...

I don't normally troll but.

Where is your god now https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5070339#post5070339

Still you've never mustered the courage to enter a wormhole

Somehow I like all this and have a laugh. Specially the day when renter income goes away.
Some people could actually play this game again.

I'm sorry but you've used that card way too many times now, I'm sure by now everyone has begun to question CCP as game devs seeing most of wormhole space was "set up wrong".

I don't normally troll but.

Where is your god now https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5070339#post5070339

I don't normally troll but.
Where is your god now https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5070339#post5070339

Hey, CCP, can you go and finish making everything about wormholes work as it was intended, right now? Its only been 5 years.

We do C4's one of two ways:
1) Archon + blah blah who cares. But usually Cruise Typhoons x 2+ can smack down the sleepers fast enough to make it worthwhile.
2) 2 Cruise Typhoon (minimum) plus 2 Guardians, pref 4 Phoons

Pre this apparent bug fix which only took 5 years, we would clear sites quite fine with this setup. Even accounting for the fact we had scrubs who couldn't fly Minmatar, the race of kings, or couldn't do T2 Cruise. I PYFA'd the bejeesus out of our options, taking into account the spawn distance of C4 sites, the application of DPS IRL versus paper (sorry, Rail Prots, Command Ships), the tankability of the gang as a whole, and the ISk sunk into the gang (ie; risk premium).

in all cases, MJD cruise phoons were the duck's nuts of C4 site running. But you need at least 4 toons, preferably 6, to make it doable.

We did some sites and radars last night (didn't hump the cans, because of the stupid minigame) and hardly noticed the RR slowing us down. The biggest issue remains the spawn distance, the overall lack of rewards, and the fact that we were so bored to actually want to run sites for the first time since Hyperion, due to lack of anyone being around.

So, yes, thanks CCP and my favorite oesophagal pugilism dreamboat, Fozzie, for fixing this critical bug issue right now. Coupled with your wonderful PR treatment of people on the forums, resulting in people like jester moving to NPC Nullsec and not clogging up C5 space with his stupidity, plus basically everyone else, now we can look forward to even more than 40% of wormhole space being uninhabited. I'm hoping it gets as high as 80%.

Truly, a work of genius.

Like I just said above, while I can understand everyone's frustration at this change, it helps to be accurate in the complaints

C1-C2 sites have no RR
C3 sites have very minimal RR. Even before it was broken it was manageable, as you either have 1 RR BS in a final wave (just kill it first) or a couple RR frigates/cruisers which can be knocked down
C4 sites, yea they are gonna be even more annoying given not only their significant increase in RR over C3 and long ranges.
C5-C6- Never ran them, but considering threads like "site running like a baws" it seemed like maybe they were a little too easy without RR?

The end result really will depend on the fleet comp you run. I don't expect much difference post "fix" TBH. I do expect the days of solo Marauders, which are a rare find as it is (usually 2x per site), will be coming to an end though. I hope to do some testing tonight and see what the real result is...

Yeah tbh you are right about the C1/2, it has been a long time since i ran them.

As for C3 yes it is an issue, not everyone running C3's is a max skill pilot and flying bling ships. For a C3 site the Fortification, solar Cell and the Oruze just got slower for a pilot that is already making less then he could in HS safely.

C4's that just got extra risk added with Mass/distance and dual statics have now been nerfed some more with RR. It is a bit rich when we got these changes that we all asked for extra reward to then get things nerfed further for them.

Overall it is just a change that Wh space didn't need after Hyperion. The change we needed and we had asked for was more ISK for low end WH's to bring people in and to make them want to risk ships in the now more dangerous WH space for the extra reward.

But this well i am not sure how it could ever help WH space.

2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

8. Use of profanity is prohibited.

The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

Alright guys, lots of trolling, name calling, and off-topic posting going on in this thread. I've thoroughly cleaned the source trolling and the off-topic posting related to the areas that were rotting the thread. Please adhere to the forum rules and keep the discussions respectful, on-topic, and on track. Thanks!

Greetings greater wormhole community,

...

I have 2 more points before I'll let you ignore my post competly.
1) Time and time again you make changes without consulting the community and backing your reasoning up with evidence.
2) There has been more responses in a few hours to the nullsec jump range change than there have been on this current issue AND on the Jump Spawn Distance released in Hyperion.
.

The vast majority of melted nanos are from C5/C6 space, as I understand it, the volumes produced by C1-4 pale into insignificance. So there might be an impact, but it will be slight.

extra risk? c4s are totally broken right now...

extra risk? c4s are totally broken right now...

Yeah no. IMHO, C4's are not now, nor ever were "solo" content. Doesn't mean it can't be done, but it also doesn't mean people need to shout the sky is falling when CCP appears to make a legitimate fix and in the end makes solo running harder. C4's as small-group PVE are quite viable, and when one considers the ISK risk versus reward, they are still competative with C5/C6 escalations, all things considered (setup time, ISK on grid, risk of losing a ship, risk of non-consensual PVP, etc.).

And let's spice things up a bit more. Give C4's sites with random triggers. Then, after a certain mass of ships is on-grid, escalate with extra Safeguards or Preserver BS. Let's absolutely force group content. This would make C4 running much more fun.

I agree C4's need a change. Closer spawns to make efficient site running possible outside of cruise phoons. Hell even 80km spawns would assist with Eos/Oni gangs or Abso/Guard gangs becoming competitive with MJD's. Random spawns will never be random; they cannot be. So people will work it out, but OK; lets roll with escalatable content and give people in C4's and C3's an ability to trigger more waves of sleepers.

Quad cruise phoons you still need to MJD around, which required Guardian pilots to be on the ball.

Yeah no. IMHO, C4's are not now, nor ever were "solo" content. Doesn't mean it can't be done, but it also doesn't mean people need to shout the sky is falling when CCP appears to make a legitimate fix and in the end makes solo running harder. C4's as small-group PVE are quite viable, and when one considers the ISK risk versus reward, they are still competative with C5/C6 escalations, all things considered (setup time, ISK on grid, risk of losing a ship, risk of non-consensual PVP, etc.).
...
As a single fleet, the dps and tank on grid are a non-trivial force to reckon with and that alone provides defense from the casual gank, but certainly not the 80 man Gank-O-Rama fleet seen recently.
...

What has hurt C4 income potential more than anything else are the nanoribbon prices versus years past. I do remember when 7-8 mil was the going rate, ah the days. Changes in supply and demand have moved the majority of the income potential to the blue loot. As much as I hate the PVP aspect of more empty w-space, it should help the nanoribbon prices by dropping supply and in turn increasing sell prices.
...
Now, having said all that, if there needs to be a rebalance, it should take place in an obvious manner C1 < C2 < C3 < C4 income. Unfortunately, due to "our", meaning w-space folks, willingness to spend ISK on bling fits, the progression in difficulty is broken. Likely, even C3 were not intended for solo running, but that is easily done now.
...

EDIT: And to be clear, I am no fan of all this new connectivity, but it doesn't "break" C4 either...

This is a good change risk : reward will finally start being balanced in wormholes. No amount of howling can save you all from that.

I don't think.

Removed all those extra words for you and left the content.

Who says C3/4's weren't ever meant to be run solo? Does that apply to DED 10's as well? Why should I or anyone have to adapt to this?

Here's what cuts to the core for me and really seriously is showing me the low sec door or even the leave eve door ....... stealth patching.

For Fozzie to come on here and insinuate that the patch to a broken Incursion mechanic had unexpected but actually what we meant to happen changes is frankly insulting. Somebody got into the sleeper code and changed it and didn't mention it. A Derp of communication? I could believe that this is after all CCP (Can't Communicate Properly) after all.

I never really wanted Nebulae, or hexagonal cloaking effects, nor a discovery scanner, jump distance change or anything really. I was quite happy taking whatever pew I could take and knowing I could replace the losses with a formula JUST LIKE EVERY SINGLE OTHER SUBSECTION OF EVE CAN!

At a time when your RL business is flushing itself down the toilet through a lot of your leadership Fozzie your actions are pretty ridiculous tbh. Soundwave would have come on and said "Yep, we derped again, fixing it maybe but sorry chaps" all you ever do is argue the point, try and counterpoint and make an equine's posterior out of yourself to boot.

Anyhoo I'm off to check out a beta 2 of a new old space game I heard was awesome and see if my game time is best spent there. I'm guessing I'm not alone at all.

So I really ask myself, am I stupid for staying? CCP seem to think so, when they say they are just correcting a previous error.

Yep, constantly doing something you don't enjoy is very stupid, and whining about it constantly makes you publicly stupid.

What you said before that wasn't relevant. Wormholes aren't any slummer than they used to be. You just don't seem to like them, so move out.

I'm sure if you were to quantify it the anguish per person is considerably higher among your peers in null. I can't wait to see the next rounds of changes coming to kill the goons, err.... "shake up null".

As for the sleeper changes, it's perhaps slightly unfortunate for some people who were caught off guard, but I have little sympathy for those of us who solo, since I don't think you're really supposed to be able to do that in a WH (particularly not a C5 - Maybe in lower classes to some extent.)

In any case, this change is cool and was supposed to be there from the beginning, so we'll just adapt like we always do.

Don't cry, your suffering has only begun.

Howl all you want you actually have to risk something now to get your reward, hah.

I'm not saying you CAN'T solo sites, or even that you shouldn't, but rather I'm fine with changes that encourage groups. That's all. I'm a heavily solo player myself, but I think we all know that the people make eve interesting, not the NPC's. I'm for things that encourage interaction both intra-corp and inter-corp.

U know.. If I was the one that has spent so much of my spare time on sisi mapping out ISK/hr for C1-C4 wormholes, I would REALLY have appreciated a heads up about these kind of changes so I wouldn't be wasting my time......

I hope corbexx has more patience for this kind of nonsense.

With 4 webs and 5 faction painters an Awakened Sentinel (cruiser) can not be hit by dreads anymore?

Did you reduce the sig?

Also the remote rep effects are cool looking but damn they rep a lot more.

Did I miss this somewhere in the patch notes?

Yeah - had this exact thought/conversation with RL friend and fellow pilot yesterday. All of the information that CCP "should" have with regard to drop rates, actual harvested rates, actual sold rates, etc etc could have easily be de-identified from corp/alliance and simply grouped by originating class (1-6). They should have been able to churn this out pretty easily given the amount of data mining they do within Tranquility. Yet they decided to refuse assistance to corbexx in gathering the very type of data they, CCP, are most able to provide. This cost corbexx hours (tens?) of his personal time with little actual gain/benefit without some commitment from CCP that they are looking into population growth/retention issues.

In another context it's increasingly apparent that the CSM is, once again, being relegated to an afterthought as it relates to proposed game design changes, especially sweeping changes. Seen here where the CSM was (purposely?) left out of the loop on the scope of the changes to be announced. And what is even more injurious to the CSM and its stated purpose is the following:

https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie/status/515243517455908864
http://imgur.com/RqV85sG

http://imgur.com/khDX6f1

Poor form CCP. Poor form indeed.

I did some C4 sites today. The sleepers' RR makes them take longer to die, but they still die. I don't solo them and I feel sorry for the lonely people who do.

I notice the RRs seem to have a fairly reasonable range limit. Also, just to experiment with them, I jammed a preserver battleship with 5x EC-300 drones and it did not resume repairing its ally, even though it did start shooting at us again. I might load up a few larger ECM drones and assign one or two per preserver to see what happens. However, seriously, it does not make the sites take much longer if you have .. friends .. :)

I farm solo in a C4 frequently and have no problem with the RR. In fact, if you field a ship that is able to apply reliable ~1000 DPS (Marauder, Carrier), the RR is hardly noticable.

Sites take around 1-2 Minutes longer now, which is absolutely fine when looking at the insane amount of ISK/h doable in a C4.

The changes are absolutely fine and whoever has problems with the RR in a C4 is probably not ready for this class of WHs when it comes to fieldable equipment. Besides that, no one is forced to do the sites alone. Tests with 2 or 3 ships have shown, that the RR is not even worth mentioning.

The values like "1000 DPS+ RR" mentioned earlier in this thread are far far off, at worst the Sleeper RR in a C4 neutralizes like 150-200 DPS and thats it.

I tested it multiple times and in a good ship it is still absolutely no problem flying these sites solo and making huge amounts of ISK with that. Just don't try it in a 450 DPS Tengu...

Before everyone goes crazy and talks about the death of low class wormholes, I'm mapping out the real damage:

C1 Space(Totally Unaffected)
No RR



C2 Space(Totally Unaffected)
No RR


C3 Spacesmall nerfs to solar cell and Oruze, the 2 rarest kinds of sites, you can no longer rely on unbonused light drones to slowly eat away at frigates in the solar cell, and the site time for the oruze is getting a SLIGHT increase, but with only 130dps repping power even solo ships will be able to melt the low HP low resistance cruisers
Fortification
- 1 RR Cruiser in final wave, low hp and resistances, shouldn't even effect solo ships

Outpost
No RR

Solar Cell
- 2 RR frigates 2nd wave, low hp and resistances, smartbombs and unbonused drones won't be effected, may be difficult for ships that don't have good dps vs frigs to kill them
- 1 RR battleship final wave, low hp and resistances, easily killed first, shouldn't effect solo ships


Oruze
- 1 RR cruiser in first wave, low hp and resistances, easily killed first, shouldn't effect solo ships
- 2 RR Cruisers in final wave, low hp and resistances, 130 dps repping power (against the 60% resistances of the other RR cruiser), site time will be a little slower


C4 SpaceHuge nerf to soloability and site time of the 2 most common sites
Barracks
The final wave is an RR nightmare, there is as much as 965-1126dps in reps. All the ships spawn hundreds of K off and will try to stay at range. This is also a pretty common site.

Command Post
Stupid 1000+dps in reps in the final wave, another huge nerf

Terminus
Couple of RR frigs and cruisers, will slow down solo ships

Info Sanctum
RR cruisers and frigs in the final wave, not as bad as the barracks and command post but it will still slow solo ships down


C5 Spacewith the new buff to flux coils and refitting, core garrisons (most common site) remain for marauders that bring multiple smartbombs, other then that there's a huge nerf to groups as strongholds (2nd most common site) now have a nightmarish last wave
Garrison
6 RR frigs in 2nd wave, solo marauders will have trouble smartbombing the frigs. double or triple smartbomb reccomended

Stronghold
Final wave is a total RR nightmare 2000+dps in reps, soloing will be impossible and small groups will have a lot of trouble

Oruze
Last wave has 4 RR frigs and 3 RR cruisers, ships without good alpha wont be able to kill the frigs

Quarantine
3 RR cruisers in the final wave 250ish dps tank, but no one runs these sites outside of capital escalations or large groups anyways


C6 Space (Totally Unaffected)
No one can really solo these sites, and anything outside of caps are so horrifically inefficient its a null point

We did read the numbers. Unfortunately they are *completely incorrect*, at least for C4 sites.

I repeat: The Sleeper RR is *by far* no problem if you have an adequate damage output to run the sites fast anyway.

Numbers of "1000+ DPS RR" are nowhere near the reality. The sleepers DO NOT remote repair all the time, they only repair in small bursts which neutralize 1-2 of your own shots and thats it. Even the Frontier Barracks Spawn with 3 Preserver BS is just a piece of cake, it takes 1-2 minutes longer now, nothing more. The sleepers never come close to "outtank" you or something like that.

We tested sites with Sentrycarriers (1200-1600 DPS depending on drones) and Marauders (1000 DPS Paladins) and it was absolutely no problem to run C4 sites very quick.

It depends on the site.

We did read the numbers. Unfortunately they are *completely incorrect*, at least for C4 sites.

I repeat: The Sleeper RR is *by far* no problem if you have an adequate damage output to run the sites fast anyway.

Numbers of "1000+ DPS RR" are nowhere near the reality. The sleepers DO NOT remote repair all the time, they only repair in small bursts which neutralize 1-2 of your own shots and thats it. Even the Frontier Barracks Spawn with 3 Preserver BS is just a piece of cake, it takes 1-2 minutes longer now, nothing more. The sleepers never come close to "outtank" you or something like that.

We tested sites with Sentrycarriers (1200-1600 DPS depending on drones) and Marauders (1000 DPS Paladins) and it was absolutely no problem to run C4 sites very quick.

edit:
Just to make clear what we talk about:
- A Sentrycarrier still clears a Frontier Barracks in 10-11 Minutes (was 8-9 before), which means if you count in warp times you can still do *very reliable* 4-5 sites per hour including looting and salvaging afterwards. Average ISK per Site is around 80-100 Million, so we talk about income of 240-400 Million ISK/hour. What exactly is there to complain about?

You talk well but you don't read and comprehend at all. It's not a question of whether you can do it in a bloody carrier (Send route bookmarks please) and every other ship you have listed you have done so in the plural so it's not about whether a gang can do them either.
The main points are i) What was once tough but soloable is now not and ii) As usual it wasn't even mentioned in patch notes and as usual was discovered by players more qualified to test content than the designers. Probably resulted in a few unwarranted ship losses to NPC's in the process.

so basically you're saying:

"hey guys its fine if you solo farm your home static in carriers, which we all know forever spawns anoms"

No, what I am saying is: "The Sleepers do NOT RR like a 1000 DPS". Nothing more, nothing less.

In your home WH you can still do sites in a carrier quite easily.

Outside of your home WH, a Marauder is still able to do the sites solo if you want and have a proper fit. You make less money now, true, but the money still is enough compared to what you can make in comparable environments (0.0 Anomalies). Even if you can run only 2 sites per hour, thats still 160-200 Million ISK.

And heaven forbids to do these sites non-solo (aka dual/tripleboxing or just run them with a few friends), when the RR becomes simply non-existant any more.

So basically all that "ohh ohhh CCP what did you do to sleepers!!!11111" is just nonsense. The Sleepers are just fine. The players are too greedy and believe just because they enjoyed a broken mechanic that made it easy for them, they now magically have the "right" to keep making that much money forever.

Yeah, the sites are a bit harder. Fine. Nothing to complain about. They are still doable and they still generate lots of lots lof lots of money. The only thing that could CCP have done better is: fixing it 2 years ago when they introduced WHs so people don't complain now when everything works as intended.

[Vargur, C4 Solo]
Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field
True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster
Tracking Computer II

800mm Repeating Cannon II
800mm Repeating Cannon II
Imperial Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
[Empty High slot]
Bastion Module I
Imperial Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
800mm Repeating Cannon II
800mm Repeating Cannon II

Large Projectile Collision Accelerator II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I


Warrior II x5

Optimal Range Script x1
Hail L x2088
Republic Fleet Fusion L x788
Barrage L x2716
Cap Booster 800 x12
Nanite Repair Paste x263

Vargur (considered the worst Marauder) when it comes to damage application (hello falloff...).


Never in trouble.

So that is very reliable 3 sites/hour incl. looting. Nobody tell me thats a bad income.

and things like this happen (really? X-type for a C4 prepatch? )

You must include:
1. Scan time (yes I understand some sites don't require this)
2. Hole rolling time
3. Salvage time
4. Travel time
etc.

I'd like to see someone spend 24hrs doing wormhole sites and compare it to 24 hours of incursion running and 24 hours of mission running (with/without salvage).

Give me those numbers... and then you can make such statements.

tbh flying a 3b Marauder is nothing strange or funny in a C4. all that "trololo plz give bookmarks u dumbass flying carrier in C4 hahatrololol" is kinda stupid because with a bit of attention you simply don't lose your ratting ship and therefore it simply does not matter how expensive the fit is as long as it gives you good killspeed.

I farm in my C4 Static C4 for around two years now. Carrier + 2 Sentrydomis attached in the HomeWH, Marauder + 2 Sentrydomis attached in the Static. I lost ]not a single ship during these 2 years because I just know what I do and I pay attention. So all that X-Type and Factionstuff on the ships payed for itself very very well considering the killspeed these fits bring. Besides that, I can simply sell it once I leave the WH.

So instead of laughing at a guy who lost a 3b Paladin, laugh at yourself after you compared how much MORE cash he made in that ship all the time you didnt catch him, while you sit half an hour nagging on some sleepers armor and complaining how bad C4 Anos are. The guy had the right idea. You got a lucky shot, good for you. He still makes a lot more cash with the next Paladin and does not need to complain at the forums how he cannot beat the anos any more or how bad is income is now.

and here i went through all this trouble to get exact numbers on the front page and no one is even reading them :/

I've typically over tanked my ships (where it doesn't compromise dps output, etc.) as it takes the pressure off a bit especially if you screw up and pull the wrong trigger or don't pay attention for a moment or something and/or if someone jumps you who has underestimated your ability to fight back it could give you the edge.

I might be the only one, but I am glad that the RR Sleepers are fixed. This means we have to be on the ball while doing sites. We have to pay attention. I like it hard, if I want en easier time, or if I want to solo I can use a lower class of holes.

If the only reason that some groups or individuals could do C3/4 sites was the broken Sleeper Remote Repais... so be it. Work to overcome it. If the The 20 Minuters can, anyone can.

Honestly this is the most ******** response i have seen. C3/4 will still be able to be run solo its just a pointless ******* nerf when we have asked for variable triggers and other escalation options that would make PVE so much more palatable.

The only thing this change does is make it harder for fresh meat in WH's to get the taste of blood. But please continue dribbling your WH sites should be hard crap it seems to be sinking in at CCP.

I'd would suggest that new blood, if they want to solo do so in C1/2. Or take part in a fleet that can help keep them alive. We've had fairly new players running cruisers in a C4 fleet.

Why in Bob's name would someone do c1 or c2 sites when they can do L4s in hs safely? For better isk.

Also your list is missing a several year gap in there.

/sigh

Its the single player day trippers dipping their toes into Wh life i care for with this clear NERF. I don't care about the people with access to fleets or running C4/5/6 sites solo now as these people are already well capable of handling these changes.

Why in Bob's name would someone do c1 or c2 sites when they can do L4s in hs safely? For better isk.

Also your list is missing a several year gap in there.

I'm actually not sure if two low SP guys running L4s in cheap fit BCs can make as much ISK as they would in wormholes.

...at which point people start crying nerf.

We just saw :D https://zkillboard.com/kill/41546467/

it was glorious like 2010, what's dscan anyway

Ok, it's pretty evident that C1 and C2 income needs a buff. CCP, hjalp the wormholes!

I've typically over tanked my ships (where it doesn't compromise dps output, etc.) as it takes the pressure off a bit especially if you screw up and pull the wrong trigger or don't pay attention for a moment or something and/or if someone jumps you who has underestimated your ability to fight back it could give you the edge.

I'd like to see someone spend 24hrs doing wormhole sites and compare it to 24 hours of incursion running and 24 hours of mission running (with/without salvage).

Test server doesn't count here Rroff

I see someone needs a hug.