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Is this theft on the grandest of grand scales? Or Justification?

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Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.10 18:19:00 - [61] Sounds like to me that ***take knows better how to use the BPOs and is more willing to do what it takes to produce from them for profit. Given that and the fact that most of his own* ISK was used to buy all these things, I'd say he keeps the BPOs for himself. The old corp did little for the BPOs and turned down offers for a fair settlement. That said, he's named after a mushroom and I really dislike mushrooms. But still... -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| CCG Card Lookup
Sul Sonic Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.10 18:37:00 - [62] The way I see it you should go by your latest contract. It really depends on the arrangement you made when you split up with their corp. The amount of work done is basically a non factor, because you were working for a corp, and not for yourself. If in the arrangement you produce a bpo you have for them, then the bpo's are yours. If the agreement was you hold a bpo for them, and produce for them, then the bpo is theirs. The fairest way is just sell it and go 50/50. You would end up with more per person than them anyway.
Songwind The Descendants	Posted - 2006.08.10 18:37:00 - [63] In general, if you do work for a company, the results of that work belong to the company. That's fairly straightforward. In this case, no matter how much of the company's bottom line you sucked out of the rocks in your strip miner, it's still company money. However, IMO the real question here comes when they split up. If the agreement upon creating two corps said that Corp B had the BPOs.... then corp B has the BPOs. Corp A gave them away when the new company was formed, and that was probably not a wise decision on their part. Obviously this stuff doesn't translate directly into EVE most of the time because corporations in EVE rarely are run like a business. Corp funds probably didn't buy the mining equipment used to get the raw materials. Manufacturers and miners are rarely paid for their labor (nor are paramilitary wings, but they don't generally create anything that they can try to claim later). I think that easiest way to resolve these sorts of disputes before they begin would be to have a corporate agreement to either a) share the profits of the corp's ventures on a predetermined payout scale or b) to pay-per-piece. You make a new BS? You get however many ISK for it. You brought in 1M units of Isogen? Here's your money. Then you don't have to worry about who owns what - they are corporate assets. ----- The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
F4ze Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.08.10 18:59:00 - [64] ****take, you are too good. Keep the bpo's and keep an eye out for a wardeclaration.
Iva Soreass	Posted - 2006.08.10 19:22:00 - [65] Imo ****talk keep the stuff , send the so called whining little kid a amount you think is fair a be done with them, cease to talk to them or do business with them. Thats what i would do . GL hope you get it sorted.
Haldane IV Crisis Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.10 19:29:00 - [66] I don't think you say where this mining took place? If it was for high ends in 0.0, and that was better money than mining in safe empire space, did the miners only have 0.0 access because OCC (the pvp'ers) had access and the miners were (initially) part of OCC? It would make a difference because in such a scenario OCC did make a contribution to the miners ability to accumulate the minerals, over and above the 10% of the (mining) work they did do, and I do not think anyone has mentioned that.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.10 20:12:00 - [67] Quote: I believe that a full airing of the details to the community, and your thoughtful responses, could possibly help their directors put things into perspective and negotiate fairly. So could telling them to sod off and keeping everything. If the BPOs are in your possession you are holding the cards. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Reggie Stoneloader	Posted - 2006.08.10 20:22:00 - [68] This is why I don't get along well with communists. There should be an isk transaction for every resource contributed to the corp. If there's not enough in the corp treasury, then you distribute stock. If one member gives enough to the corp that he's the de facto CEO, you either let him run the joint or you kick him out prior to that situation arising, avoiding the situation entirely. Have the BPOs paid for themselves yet?
x racer	Posted - 2006.08.10 20:42:00 - [69] Disclaimer: I have worked off and on with **take and his mining mushroom team scince my first days in EVE and always found him to be a reputable and fair player. That said, I dont know OCC at all. **take stated he made a more than fair offer, I believe him and encourage OCC to consider taking the offer or counteroffering. If OCC counteroffers, a paragraph or two describing how they arrived at the figure would be very helpful. Good luck with the negotiations. cheers, x
Kurren Farscape Mining	Posted - 2006.08.10 20:46:00 - [70] Originally by: Aeaus Knowing the corporations in question, it's an issue of both sides being partially right, and the evil side is the one you're not on. A solution would be to have Corp A receive the BPOs in return for the isk Corp B put in to the project, or simply keep production going with mutual benefits. I like that one. Honestly though, I'd just keep the BPO. That's me though. It's in my corp hangar... it's my corp's. You could always just give them 50% of the BPO cost and be done with it. If everything has been split 50/50 since buying it... you could just do that and still remain "fair." --- --- --- --- SobaKai.com
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.10 20:58:00 - [71] Originally by: Haldane IV I don't think you say where this mining took place? If it was for high ends in 0.0, and that was better money than mining in safe empire space, did the miners only have 0.0 access because OCC (the pvp'ers) had access and the miners were (initially) part of OCC? It would make a difference because in such a scenario OCC did make a contribution to the miners ability to accumulate the minerals, over and above the 10% of the (mining) work they did do, and I do not think anyone has mentioned that. This is an excellent point. Protection of corp members doesn't generate ISK directly, but it makes the ISK generation possible. I think a lot of industrial corporations would do well to remember that. However, he DID say that he tried to be more than fair with his buyout offer. If "Corp A" isn't even willing to negotiate, then they should get what they can force RONAD into giving them ... which is probably not very much. The Billionaire Buccaneer (A Blog for the Bored)
Red Ochre	Posted - 2006.08.10 20:58:00 - [72] your first mistake was forming a business venture with people you cant get to. never form a corp unless you know these people in real life. if you do you are misguided and too trusting an individual and deserve the situation your in, trusting some person on the other end of an internet connection makes for bad business. people you know, that you can see from time to time in real life changes the whole outlook on any problem that may arise, the obvious need not be said. trusting anyone you meet in this game is a big nogo, because eventualy, that trusting soul will know you cant do anything and stab you in the back. it sounds cold but its simple fact.
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.10 21:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Arkanor Edited by: Arkanor on 09/08/2006 22:48:48 You are in corp B, judging by the tone of that post. Keep the BPOs, Posession is 7/10ths of the law, military strength is the other 3, and if they aren't willing to exercise it let them rot.
MX Storm	Posted - 2006.08.10 21:40:00 - [74] Edited by: MX Storm on 10/08/2006 21:40:27 Originally by: eLLioTT wave If an English scientist is working for an American secret government project, makes a breakthrough and then decides to leave and go back to England, can he take his secret project with him because he's done all of the work? Or does it belong to the American government he was working for at the time? (no i'm not from either of the countries - just another way of putting your question i think) Yes unless the us has found a way to brainwash all the info out of his head.
Ze4K DK Gallente RONA Deepspace CORE.	Posted - 2006.08.11 23:15:00 - [75] all i'm wondering is who made this post... ----------- I'm not a member of RONA and apparently LLeBrinG started to cry because i didn't change my sig to reflect this, sorry LL didn't mean to hurt your feelings or anything.
Lazuran	Posted - 2006.08.12 02:41:00 - [76] Corp assets are corp assets. You don't want to contribute to the corp and want to work into your own pocket instead? Just do that. You leave a corp? You also leave its assets behind.
Shaikar Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.12 03:54:00 - [77] Originally by: Lazuran Corp assets are corp assets. You don't want to contribute to the corp and want to work into your own pocket instead? Just do that. You leave a corp? You also leave its assets behind. Unless a agreement is made that allows you to take some of those assets of course. Which is what happened.
Jex Jast Perfect Order	Posted - 2006.08.12 04:19:00 - [78] If you bought the BPOs, they are yours, and it was you lending them to the corp, not the other way around. I think 90% is more than enough to claim ownership. Give them nothing, if this is even still going on. ___________________________________________
Calladen Nimitz Caldari Libertas Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.12 04:20:00 - [79] Edited by: Calladen Nimitz on 12/08/2006 04:21:00 How much actual cash did each of the four players (1, 2, 4, 5) put into the BP project and what was the total cash invested in BPs. Find that out then pay Corp A (players 1, 2) what they put in. You turned over 2 Revelations and a Carrier to the Corp A folks. How much did they pay for those ships and the minerals you mined? How much did you make? The fact Corp A willingly let a member of Corp B keep the BPO's all this time and let Corp B do all the work mining, building and selling these ships as well as the copies while collecting 2/3 commission on everything seems to indicate they've already been "paid" for their share or a good part of it. Questions: 1. Was payment for minerals mined for the capital ships paid before you issued profits back to Corp A? How were you paid for your mining work? 2. How much grand total do you have invested (cash) in the BPOs and how much of that (cash) was given by Corp A? Now another Corp B question. When you were mining did Corp A provide warship protection in dangerous space while you mined? If so were they paid for that time? You need to factor in the non-mining contribution if there is any also. But in reality even if you gave them the BP they'd probably wardec you anyway. If they screamed so much even after you offered a fair buyout (double) and free webhosting they sound like they'd keep on you even if they got everything they wanted. So keeping it would probably not do you any worse then giving it up. So can you post some chatlogs? Id like to see what they're screaming at you. Calladen

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