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Awox Inc. (concerning ransoms)

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Feng Schui	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:23:00 - [1] 2006.08.13 @ 00:13 I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account for ransom for a *day* being left alone to mine / rat in Ennur by his corp (if it was just a personal ransom, i would have deposited 1 million isk) 2006.08.13 19:31 Victim: Feng Schui Alliance: None Corp: Republic Military School Destroyed: Scythe System: Ennur Security: 0.1 Involved parties: Name: ZuN3 (laid the final blow) Security: -10.0 Alliance: Black Flag Alliance Corp: Fortunis Novum Ship: Vagabond Weapon: 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II Name: William Hart Security: -9.9 Alliance: None Corp: Awox Inc. Ship: Claw Weapon: Claw I don't know about anyone else, but a *day* is 24 hours. Not 19 hours. DO NOT give this corp ransom, as they will not honor it. I quote Awox, when I put the kill mail into local chat, "so?" Awox then decided he should pay me back 1/2 of the ransom (2.5 million isk) for the "miscommunication". To the hades with that! I don't want 2.5 million isk, I want 3 corpses in my hanger. Guess which ones? It doesn't matter how long it takes me; the last person I wanted revenge on, took me four years playing the MMO to finally get ahold of him again, and I massacred him. Congratulations Awox Inc. You'll be getting retribution. It may not be today, tomorrow, in a month, or in a year.. but it will happen. And unlike your corp, I honor my word. Irony: A miner grief killing a pirate. You know who you are dear ex-gang member. Why haven't you logged in for the past 2 weeks, hrmm?
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:51:00 - [2] I know Awox personally and I can vouch for him as someone who honors ransoms. I doubt he was counting the 24 hours, also noting that he lives in Australia might help. ===============================================
Varelse Wiggin	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Scoundrelus I know Awox personally and I can vouch for him as someone who honors ransoms. I doubt he was counting the 24 hours, also noting that he lives in Australia might help. It's been a while since i've had a basic geography class, but if memory serves me right time goes the same speed in Australia as it does in Brazil. That's a weak excuse, and if he paid for a day he should get a day. Shaving even 20 minutes off if it should count as dishonoring his ransom.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Originally by: Scoundrelus I know Awox personally and I can vouch for him as someone who honors ransoms. I doubt he was counting the 24 hours, also noting that he lives in Australia might help. It's been a while since i've had a basic geography class, but if memory serves me right time goes the same speed in Australia as it does in Brazil. That's a weak excuse, and if he paid for a day he should get a day. Shaving even 20 minutes off if it should count as dishonoring his ransom. Won't even bother explaining tbh, I sense this thread is about to be mobbed by carebears who love to hear only the "victims" side of the story. ===============================================
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Feng Schui I quote Awox, when I put the kill mail into local chat, "so?" When you post a killmail into local it shows up as the example shows below. Since it won't fit into local chat its shortened and thus he can't see his corpmate on it. 2006.08.13 19:31 Victim: Feng Schui Alliance: None Corp: Republic Military School Destroyed: Scythe System: Ennur Security: 0.1 Involved parties: Name: ZuN3 (laid the final blow) ===============================================
Aakron Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:10:00 - [6] so you paid awox for 24 hours..but his corp mate killed you?
Varelse Wiggin	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Aakron so you paid awox for 24 hours..but his corp mate killed you? Afaik he paid the corporation for 24 hours, not the individual.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Afaik he paid the corporation for 24 hours, not the individual. Originally by: Feng Schui I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account ===============================================
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Originally by: Aakron so you paid awox for 24 hours..but his corp mate killed you? Afaik he paid the corporation for 24 hours, not the individual. And thus the ransom was not honored. Personally if something like this "miscommunication" happened I wouldn't hesitate to pay back several fold the ransom and help replace the ship. Honoring your ransom is everything. My Guides
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Scoundrelus Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Afaik he paid the corporation for 24 hours, not the individual. Originally by: Feng Schui I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account Last I checked Awox was a corporation My Guides

Varelse Wiggin	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Scoundrelus Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Afaik he paid the corporation for 24 hours, not the individual. Originally by: Feng Schui I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account Mate, you can't rewrite stuff like that and expect a competant individual to buy it. Originally by: Feng Schui 2006.08.13 @ 00:13 I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account for ransom for a day being left alone to mine / rat in Ennur by his corp (if it was just a personal ransom, i would have deposited 1 million isk)
Varelse Wiggin	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Scoundrelus Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Afaik he paid the corporation for 24 hours, not the individual. Originally by: Feng Schui I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account Last I checked Awox was a corporation Bahaha, ignore Scoundrelus then, he doesn't know anything about anything. He's just here trying to stir up trouble.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Scoundrelus Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Afaik he paid the corporation for 24 hours, not the individual. Originally by: Feng Schui I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account Last I checked Awox was a corporation Last I checked an individual not of the corp cannot transfer funds into it. ===============================================
stoats	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:34:00 - [14] every time you pay a ransom god kills a kitten.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Bahaha, ignore Scoundrelus then, he doesn't know anything about anything. He's just here trying to stir up trouble. Well thats funny coming from someone who in all probability knows nothing about either involved party and is drawing conclusions based on a killmail and the word of a some random newb. ===============================================
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:34:00 - [16] Hmm, maybe he transfered it to the corp CEO? Assuming what the OP says is actually true then Awox isn't honoring ransoms. We'll have to wait on a comment. My Guides
Varelse Wiggin	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Scoundrelus Originally by: Varelse Wiggin Bahaha, ignore Scoundrelus then, he doesn't know anything about anything. He's just here trying to stir up trouble. Well thats funny coming from someone who in all probability knows nothing about either involved party and is drawing conclusions based on a killmail and the word of a some random newb. I just know that a lot of dishonouring of ransoms and lowsec ganking goes on, that's all. And i'm merely playing the devils advocate here and siding with the "random newb" rather than flame the guy to hell and back again when in all probability he's telling the truth.
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Aeaus Last I checked Awox was a corporation Awox = Person Awox Inc = Corp
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Aeaus Last I checked Awox was a corporation Awox = Person Awox Inc = Corp Well even better, means he paid the CEO for the ransom. Really, until we hear from Awox Inc. We have nothing to draw conclusions on. My Guides
ZuN3 Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:44:00 - [20] I'm not in Awox corp, but do fly with him sometimes, I'm not fully aware of the agreement there between you, but if he really did say that the money you paid him did infact ensure your protection for 24 hours then I'm sure he'll re-imburse your loss.

Nic La	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:45:00 - [21] God zun is awsome, i want to be just like him.
Sonlatur Minmatar Matari Raiders	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:45:00 - [22] Mistakes happen and i can well imagine that one gets confused about "a day" when living in different time zones. Of course, 24 hours do make sense and this is how it has to be understood in a strict sense, but one could easily mistake it as "till tomorrow". That being said, just paying back 1/2 of the fee is wrong. Imho one should pay the whole fee plus reimbursement for the ship. I read that disturbingly often here - "if he pays ransom and the npcs blow him up afterwards, i'll pay back a part of the ransom"... . What?! Why not all? -- "Greetings fellow pod pilot. I am Sonlatur of the Sebiestor tribe and you have become a target in my war against the Evil Amarr Empire. Ransom negotiations are possible."
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.14 00:42:00 - [23] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 14/08/2006 00:42:07 I think it's like this: Carebear A get ransomed by Yarr-pirate A of Yarr-pirate-corp. A, Yarr-pirate A let Carebear A go, but Carebear A manages to get held up by Yarr-pirate B, of Yarr-pirate-corp A, and dies. Carebear A then, failing to admit his own failure, makes up a story about how Yarr-pirate A really meant the ransom for Yarr-pirate-corp. A, and proceeds to make a story up on the forums, to appeal to the public. \\ contact me in-game for sig-purchase \
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Feng Schui 2006.08.13 @ 00:13 I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account for ransom for a *day* being left alone to mine / rat in Ennur by his corp (if it was just a personal ransom, i would have deposited 1 million isk) [ 2006.08.13 00:25:31 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Ennur Local Channel [ 2006.08.13 00:28:09 ] Awox > not mining today feng? :P [ 2006.08.13 00:28:17 ] Feng Schui > trying to :\ [ 2006.08.13 00:28:24 ] Feng Schui > lost my retriever to a couple of rats :\| [ 2006.08.13 00:28:57 ] Feng Schui > so, going to lose the 2k cargo and go with 440.. but at least i have some offense and defense now, hehe [ 2006.08.13 00:29:05 ] Awox > rofl [ 2006.08.13 00:29:27 ] Feng Schui > sucks ass losing a ship to 2 18k bounty rats >< [ 2006.08.13 00:32:24 ] Awox > you want to mine in peace you can swing a bit my way [ 2006.08.13 00:32:45 ] Feng Schui > ore/isk? [ 2006.08.13 00:32:51 ] Awox > ISK [ 2006.08.13 00:33:13 ] Feng Schui > be a sec, get lag when i do anything :\| [ 2006.08.13 00:34:40 ] Feng Schui > that ok? first time i've actually been asked by a pirate, lol [ 2006.08.13 00:38:20 ] Awox > certainly [ 2006.08.13 00:38:26 ] Awox > have fun mining :) [ 2006.08.13 00:38:39 ] Feng Schui > fun? rofl.. but its a living :) [ 2006.08.13 00:46:51 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Meildolf Local Channel Never at any time was a time negotiated. I did however leave local for 12 hours after immediately after you paid me, that was rather generous I think. - nerf 0.5+
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:46:00 - [25] Originally by: Aeaus And thus the ransom was not honored. You weren't there. Originally by: Aeaus Personally if something like this "miscommunication" happened I wouldn't hesitate to pay back several fold the ransom and help replace the ship. I'm not running a charity. Originally by: Aeaus Honoring your ransom is everything. Agreed. This guy was confused as to how long I was allowing him, he said he only got half of the bargain so I offered half of the ISK back to him, almost charitable. - nerf 0.5+
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:55:00 - [26] If there was no time agreement then it was honored and giving half back is generous =/ My Guides
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.14 06:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Aeaus If there was no time agreement then it was honored and giving half back is generous =/ Well he didn't want the half, I kept it. I'll put it in the defence budget for when this guys plan for revenge eventuates. - nerf 0.5+
Unruffled Equanimity	Posted - 2006.08.14 06:33:00 - [28] heh so now we need lawyers here too, to negotiate the details of a deal... tbh honest - that was bad awox
Handon Guild Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2006.08.14 07:50:00 - [29] It is very simple. If Awox received money from this guy, thereby proclaming that he coule mine in peace from their corp for 24 hours, well, that's the deal. Now, if anything happens, and this deal is broken, like when he got shot by Awox's corpmates, he should be compensated for his ship, and the mining fee he paid. If this doesn't happen, Awox has been dishonest in his dealings, and should not be trusted. But there are many aspects in matters like this, and discussing whose fault it is can be endless...only thing relevant is, that Feng lost his stuff in violation to a deal he made, and should be compensated!
Icarium Intaki	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Handon Guild It is very simple. If Awox received money from this guy, thereby proclaming that he coule mine in peace from their corp for 24 hours, well, that's the deal. Now, if anything happens, and this deal is broken, like when he got shot by Awox's corpmates, he should be compensated for his ship, and the mining fee he paid. If this doesn't happen, Awox has been dishonest in his dealings, and should not be trusted. But there are many aspects in matters like this, and discussing whose fault it is can be endless...only thing relevant is, that Feng lost his stuff in violation to a deal he made, and should be compensated! Eh, I think Awox has already said that no time was negotiated. Which would mean that the miner was left in peace for 12 hours or so after paying a single ransom.... not bad imo.

sgt spike Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:43:00 - [31] to quote the song 'do what you want cos a pirate is free ..... you are a pirate' and wasnt there a film quote too 'you cheated...' 'err ... PIRATE?' honestly ffs u guys stop whinin and get on with it can you put a price on peace? Join Sicarri
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Icarium Intaki Eh, I think Awox has already said that no time was negotiated. Which would mean that the miner was left in peace for 12 hours or so after paying a single ransom.... not bad imo. Well the 24h period is usually just an assumed part of the deal AFAIK, I actually thought this was understood between all pirates. But these things happen. I don't think it was intentional on Awox' part to dishonor the ransom as these things are hard to keep track of. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
Nahia Senne Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.14 09:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Dixon Well the 24h period is usually just an assumed part of the deal AFAIK, I actually thought this was understood between all pirates. But these things happen. I don't think it was intentional on Awox' part to dishonor the ransom as these things are hard to keep track of. no rules, no assumptions. trying to set some ground rules for piracy is.. i wont say what it is but it defeats the purpose of being a pirate.
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 10:32:00 - [34] Originally by: Nahia Senne Originally by: Dixon Well the 24h period is usually just an assumed part of the deal AFAIK, I actually thought this was understood between all pirates. But these things happen. I don't think it was intentional on Awox' part to dishonor the ransom as these things are hard to keep track of. no rules, no assumptions. trying to set some ground rules for piracy is.. i wont say what it is but it defeats the purpose of being a pirate. Well I agree that ground rules for criminals is not something I'd put alot of faith into. However I have always followed those rules because I don't want a reputation of not honoring ransoms. But I'd never suggest that all pirate should follow any kind of rules. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
ZuN3 Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.14 10:50:00 - [35] Edited by: ZuN3 on 14/08/2006 10:53:24 Edited by: ZuN3 on 14/08/2006 10:50:25 I can vouch for Awox, and Awox's corp honouring all ransoms. This is just a one off, a mis-understanding on someone's part. I'm sure Awox would not hesitate to expell a member from his corp if he was found to not be honouring ransoms. And besides, I would have killed 'ya anyway, whether or not William Hart had been there .
Handon Guild Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2006.08.14 11:47:00 - [36] I'm sorry for my quick response..I thought you had agreed on a 24hour period
Latulla Renmei Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 11:55:00 - [37] well being to lazy to read the entire topic i'm gonna put my point of view, since when do you have to honor a ransom. surely being a pirate means you take and steal as much as you can from others, if someone is stupid enough to trust someone thats stealing from you, you deserve what you get hey, try not to hurt yourself. I'd like to do that for you
Ozzie Asrail Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.14 12:47:00 - [38] Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Icarium Intaki Eh, I think Awox has already said that no time was negotiated. Which would mean that the miner was left in peace for 12 hours or so after paying a single ransom.... not bad imo. Well the 24h period is usually just an assumed part of the deal AFAIK, I actually thought this was understood between all pirates. But these things happen. I don't think it was intentional on Awox' part to dishonor the ransom as these things are hard to keep track of. I have never every heard of this being part of the deal for a ransom, its certainly not "usually assumed". Unless anything was specificly agreed paying a ransom simply lets you keep your ship and use the 15 minute timer to escape. -----
Rayvonuk	Posted - 2006.08.14 13:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Nahia Senne no rules, no assumptions. trying to set some ground rules for piracy is.. i wont say what it is but it defeats the purpose of being a pirate. /signed I think its laughable, after all honest pirates are just pirates that are scared to actually be real pirates imo. Why should a char that threatens to blow up defenceless people have to be true to his word ?
ZuN3 Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.14 14:12:00 - [40] Edited by: ZuN3 on 14/08/2006 14:12:18 Originally by: Rayvonuk /signed I think its laughable, after all honest pirates are just pirates that are scared to actually be real pirates imo. Why should a char that threatens to blow up defenceless people have to be true to his word ? Yarrrr, do what you want because a pirate is free 'n' all that. Awox said that he makes most of his money through ransoms, he likes ransoming, if you like ransoming and you aim to continually make money from rnasoms then it is in your best interest to stay true to your word, or obviously word will get around, and people simply won't pay. This is the only logical reason for staying true to your word as a pirate. But ransoms are ftl, blowing things up ftw!

IronPants	Posted - 2006.08.14 16:45:00 - [41] I have paid awox for safe passage before and it has been honored without issue..even when I flew through his gate camp that would have easily owned me. While he may be a dirty pirate out for blood... he has honored my ransoms before.
Stedanko REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.14 19:04:00 - [42] It would be an honor if Awox ransomed my ship. I would dump my wallet immediately because I knew I was witnessing 1st class piracy in person. Awox, you are a gentleman, a scholar, and Eve's incarnation of Steven Segal.
Feng Schui	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:38:00 - [43] from Ander's guide to ransoms: How much you should pay is up to the pirate. But the decision to get blown up or pay the price is yours. A good price to ask for is often the 70 to 99% of the insurance plus an extra portion to cover the expensive modules. A good pirate will take your character into account when asking for a price. Cost of the insurance for a scythe is approx. what? 850k isk. most expensive module on that scythe was 1.2 million isk (CPU upgrade). So we add that up, and we get 2,050,000 isk. Now, assuming that was to stop the actual killing (I could have just logged, as I was in the station), I assumed, yes, assumed, that an extra 2,950,000 isk would cover me for the day, as even you did not specify a price. And a day to me is 24 hours. However, I do get what people are saying, since there was a huge assumption on my part, about the rules where not specifically written out. However, you are as much as to blame for this assumption as I am, as you did not clearly point out how much time that extra 41% isk had given me. As far as ZuN3 goes, I don't give a rats isk about the fact you engaged me; it was the fact that Hart engaged as well, and to quote William Hart, "I am a business man." A buisness man that does not follow the rules of his corporation is usually fired, or at the very least, warned of his actions. Your corporation, and thus, *you* are only as honorable as your most dishonest member. In foresight, how could things have been different? For one, if the attitude that was given upon posting the killmail (note: I did not post the entire thing, just enough to show that I was killed, and that Hart had participated) had been a bit more.. business like, and less.. "haha sucker"-ish I would have sucked it up and driven on, asking how much for an exact day (or week, or month), and would have paid that. However, you have dug your own grave, and will sleep in it, many times over. Am I a noob, as the matter of fact, I am a noob at this game, and I am still learning this game and those in it. Am I a carebear? Why don't you head to the kilibury cluster forums on http://vnboards.ign.com and ask them if Hazred Waste was a carebear? Or you can even head to http://www.borsboards.com and ask there. Now, let me ask you this.. is everyone that mines a carebear? If you engage in PvP, are you not allowed to mine? Irony: A miner grief killing a pirate. You know who you are dear ex-gang member. Why haven't you logged in for the past 2 weeks, hrmm?
Yarnix	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:54:00 - [44] Dude if your spending a full 24hrs on a game... You seriously need to get a life, expecially mining... Granted you might not be at the PC all the time, and probs watching t.v., but even for the fact of staying awake for 24hrs jus to mine, is really stupid. Awox just let him get some sleep thats all
zenofmoo Amarr Prizm Ventures Ltd.	Posted - 2006.08.14 21:34:00 - [45] Originally by: ZuN3 Edited by: ZuN3 on 14/08/2006 10:53:24 Edited by: ZuN3 on 14/08/2006 10:50:25 I can vouch for Awox, and Awox's corp honouring all ransoms. This is just a one off, a mis-understanding on someone's part. I'm sure Awox would not hesitate to expell a member from his corp if he was found to not be honouring ransoms. And besides, I would have killed 'ya anyway, whether or not William Hart had been there . Uh, Zun? Since your name is listed on the kill mail as laying the final blow, you don't make a very good character witness. Not flaming..... Just saying... Chief Tard (CEO) Prism Ventures Ltd.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.08.14 23:11:00 - [46] Take my advice, NEVER pay a corporation for a time to mine/rat in any space unless you give them a few days to circulate the information through the corp. In other words, set it up in advance. From my experiences there is alwayse some bonehead that does not read mails/corp channels all the time and will most likely log in and pod you without checking.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.14 23:30:00 - [47] Who the hell is Ander and since when does he make the rules? =============================================== Sig Removed. Please keep it within the 400*120 pixel and 24000 byte limits. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Rikeka Amarr Deux Vult	Posted - 2006.08.15 00:30:00 - [48] Ander runs EvE-Pirate.com Still, what he mentions there is an example of a good ransom, and not a ¿Parlei¿ for all pirates :S What I hate? -Men in female characters. -More to come.
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.15 02:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Feng Schui from Ander's guide to ransoms: As much as I admire Ander's campaign against ISK sellers and respect him as a player he doesn't make the rules for my style of play. I do. I've never even read that guide. Originally by: Feng Schui Cost of the insurance for a scythe is approx. what? 850k isk. most expensive module on that scythe was 1.2 million isk (CPU upgrade). You dropped three of those. Thanks. Originally by: Feng Schui So we add that up, and we get 2,050,000 isk. Now, assuming that was to stop the actual killing (I could have just logged, as I was in the station), I assumed, yes, assumed, that an extra 2,950,000 isk would cover me for the day, as even you did not specify a price. And a day to me is 24 hours. Perhaps you should have asked? Originally by: Feng Schui However, I do get what people are saying, since there was a huge assumption on my part, about the rules where not specifically written out. However, you are as much as to blame for this assumption as I am, as you did not clearly point out how much time that extra 41% isk had given me. You did not ask. Originally by: Feng Schui As far as ZuN3 goes, I don't give a rats isk about the fact you engaged me; it was the fact that Hart engaged as well, and to quote William Hart, "I am a business man." A buisness man that does not follow the rules of his corporation is usually fired, or at the very least, warned of his actions. <3 ZuN3. As for Willy, No rules were broken. Originally by: Feng Schui Your corporation, and thus, *you* are only as honorable as your most dishonest member. I've seen some pretty dishonorable people hide in RMS, perhaps you should move into a proper corp before you try to knock down others? Maybe you could form an Ethics Board in my corporation to keep us all in check? Originally by: Feng Schui In foresight, how could things have been different? For one, if the attitude that was given upon posting the killmail (note: I did not post the entire thing, just enough to show that I was killed, and that Hart had participated) had been a bit more.. business like, and less.. "haha sucker"-ish I would have sucked it up and driven on, asking how much for an exact day (or week, or month), and would have paid that. The haha sucker response was ZuN3's, but we were both laughing on Ventrillo together I admit. I guess we are just sick bastards. Originally by: Feng Schui However, you have dug your own grave, and will sleep in it, many times over. k Originally by: Feng Schui Am I a noob, as the matter of fact, I am a noob at this game, and I am still learning this game and those in it. Am I a carebear? Why don't you head to the kilibury cluster forums on http://vnboards.ign.com and ask them if Hazred Waste was a carebear? Or you can even head to http://www.borsboards.com and ask there. I don't care who you are. Just a piece of meat to me. Originally by: Feng Schui Now, let me ask you this.. is everyone that mines a carebear? If you engage in PvP, are you not allowed to mine? I don't forbid my corp from exploring any oppurtunities in EVE but we usually frown if anyone mentions mining. Originally by: Feng Schui As some have said, the cost of the miscommunication should be ship + modules. No. That is not enough to pay back the loss of trust that was destroyed. I learned alot about your actions afterwards, namely that you really don't give 2 flying.. something or anothers about what your corp mates do, and will not be responsible for thier actions. FALSE. I care every much about the actions and going ons in my corpmates' eve careers. Originally by: Feng Schui From what others in this thread have said, you may be trustworthy (the complete opposite holds true in the local chats), but know we know that your corporation is not; since you will not take responsibilities for the actions of people in your corp. William Hart is actually my alt btw, so I do take responsibility for his actions. - nerf 0.5+
Portios Smith Gallente Sanguine Legion Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.08.15 16:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Scorpyn Originally by: Aeaus Last I checked Awox was a corporation Awox = Person Awox Inc = Corp William Heart = Awox's alt. Bottom line is if a ransom was broken Fix it! is that simple. Under construction

Kaomi Zorbaz	Posted - 2006.08.15 17:39:00 - [51] Hazred Waste? What class did you play? I was on Mid bors and remember that name :) btw which guild?
Galan Amarias	Posted - 2006.08.15 19:03:00 - [52] Just my quick two centi-ISK. When making a deal with anyone you don't know, pirate, merc, noob, care bear, dev.. dosn't matter. Spell out exactly what you are paying for and exactly what terms aply. especially since we are all stuck with text as our only communicaiton tool. You need to be explicit. Not necessarily legalistic, and there is no need to argue over the meaning of words and whatnot, but say "I pay you X and I get X" and have them repeat it. That will then make it obvious if one party renegs on the deal and then you can bring the deal in all it's well defined glory to the boards. Seccond, 5mil ISK seems pretty cheap for 24hours of peace. Third, if said Pirate is the CEO he can set corp standing to Ransomee up +2 or whatever, then all his corp mates can pratice NBSI w/o haviung to read their mail. -Galan
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.15 21:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Galan Amarias Third, if said Pirate is the CEO he can set corp standing to Ransomee up +2 or whatever, then all his corp mates can pratice NBSI w/o haviung to read their mail. Not in NPC corp. - nerf 0.5+
Magnus Inmatari	Posted - 2006.08.16 10:48:00 - [54] A day is 24 hours, not 12. I would try to be more precise in the future to avoid confusion, Awox. It was not his responsibility to ask if a "day" meant something different to you - it was your responsibility to tell him. I would also have assumed a 24 hour period.
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.16 12:02:00 - [55] Originally by: Magnus Inmatari A day is 24 hours, not 12. I would try to be more precise in the future to avoid confusion, Awox. It was not his responsibility to ask if a "day" meant something different to you - it was your responsibility to tell him. I would also have assumed a 24 hour period. I would have killed you for being so stupid. 12 hours is a lot of time for 5m. That was pretty generous. I did let him mine for the rest of the day, which turned out to be a little over 12 hours. Would he rathered I hunted him all day preventing him from doing anything at all? To everyone vouching for me, I thank you. I am glad some of you see beyond my tough (sexy) exterior. To those of you giving me advice, **** off and let me run my affairs the way I want. - nerf 0.5+
Galan Amarias	Posted - 2006.08.16 19:47:00 - [56] Originally by: Awox Originally by: Galan Amarias Third, if said Pirate is the CEO he can set corp standing to Ransomee up +2 or whatever, then all his corp mates can pratice NBSI w/o haviung to read their mail. Not in NPC corp. If I'm wrong I'm wrong I've never been CEO, but are you telling me you can not set corp standing to an individual?
Ozzie Asrail Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:48:00 - [57] Nope. you can set Pilot->Pilot Pilot->Corp Corp->Corp Alliance->Corp Alliance->Alliance And its a max of 300 personal or corp standings so difficulty to keep within that limit. -----
Ms Muneca AYDS	Posted - 2006.08.16 21:52:00 - [58] I think it's been said before, but if he didn't say 24 hours and said something like "for a day" most people would take that as "until tomorrow". ---------- ---------- ----------
Black Claw Gallente Black Scorpion LTD	Posted - 2006.08.17 01:07:00 - [59] If I remember reading correctly, it was 19 hours later. That's enough time to take it into 'tomorrow'. How many pirates check their killmails or write down who they ransomed and at what time, to make sure they don't attack the same guy before the time is up? And who sets this time? It's only those who have been aggrieved. The victim believes 'tomorrow' means exactly 24 hours, to the minute. That's the victim's fault for making an assumption. It's also the victim's fault for not making sure there's clarity about which timezone that's relevent to. Awox's 'tomorrow' was likely to be earlier than the victim's 'tomorrow'. The victim should have gained clarity if he wasn't sure. Also, why do people whinge and yell and scream that a pirate isn't following the rules? Piracy is about 'breaking the rules', or at least 'breaking the law'. You can't go into lowsec space and get attacked by a pirate and then complain that they didn't follow the rules that you read about in someone else's post somewhere, when such 'rules' were simply the author's opinion of what is a respectable thing to do. Why should one person's idea of 'respectable piracy' be something that all pirates need to follow? Hell, don't get me wrong, I'm not a pirate. I'm an anti-pirate. But if you're going to go through lowsec space whinging about being attacked and then the attacker not following the rules that you want them to follow, then you shouldn't be going through lowsec space. In fact, if it's causing you so much grief, you shouldn't even be playing the damned game. Get a damned grip. Pirates make up their own rules. If a pirate ransoms you and then gives you 19 hours until they attack you again, that's bloody generous! If it was me, I'd expect to be attacked 15 minutes after paying a ransom. It'd be my own stupid fault for hanging around in a pirate system! Not enough people are applying self responsibility here. Just like the real world, it's everyone else's fault but their own. If you don't like it, you sue someone. If you can't sue 'em, you complain about it non-stop to everyone that will listen. Personally, I'm sick to death of it. If you don't like how pirates act, then don't go into those systems that pirates are in. If you HATE it so much, then do something constructive about it and join an anti-pirate corp. Stop frackin' whinging about it on the forums. Get a life. Get a PVP rating. Get a pirate today. Just stop whinging when something happens that you don't like. BLACK SCORPION LTD. Recruitment Post - Website
EFF ONEF1 Galactic Unlimited Naval Suppliers	Posted - 2006.08.17 11:34:00 - [60] nexttime use EVE time, GMT. no excuse for timezone this or that. and 5mil is damn cheap for 12 hours. how much you make in that 12?

Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.17 11:55:00 - [61] Black Claw: Props for a well-written and well-thought through post. If I may generalize, there's only one courtesy you can expect from a pirate: 1. Ransoms will be honored for that single engagement. (Anything beyond that is to the pirate's discretion). There's no general 24 hour rule, you don't get a 24 hour NAP after being ransomed. And if you do get one, you're privileged. In fact, if someone pops open a convo with you, to instead of destroying your ship and pod, and takes the risk of you calling for reinforcements... that's a privilege for you. If you get out of that, and resume ratting in low-sec with pirates in local, you probably deserve getting blown up the second time. \\ contact me in-game for sig-purchase \
thatguyinpc	Posted - 2006.08.17 20:33:00 - [62] Originally by: Feng Schui Edited by: Feng Schui on 14/08/2006 20:47:28 So we add that up, and we get 2,050,000 isk. Now, assuming that was to stop the actual killing (I could have just logged, as I was in the station), I assumed, yes, assumed, that an extra 2,950,000 isk would cover me for the day, as even you did not specify a price. And a day to me is 24 hours. Just my 2 isk but if this negotiation took place while the ransomee was safe in the station then I'm of the opinion that the ransomer should have clarified the time that the ransomee was purchasing. If your product is honest ransoms, I would stand behind your product and replace the ransomees costs in full. Guy
Trojanman190 Caldari Everlasting Impact	Posted - 2006.08.17 21:08:00 - [63] I read the entire thread and I have to say... why would anybody trust Awox? By self admission he's a jerk. 5 mil for 12 hours is crazy generous though...
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.17 22:11:00 - [64] it seems like awox abided by his ransom, and even offered to pay 1/2 it back. I think feng is, well, stupid for hanging around a pirate system and not checking local. Ore Mongers is recruiting
MonwrathDisortium Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2006.08.19 07:47:00 - [65] I would say that Awox was more than fair, you paid he let you leave that engagement. You should have moved on to greener pastures. I dont do ransoms for just this reason, now there are ransom rules? Kill em' all and split up the loot, captain gets a double share, YARRR
Rikkard Strofeldt Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.08.19 11:06:00 - [66] Time doesn't go slower here in AU, unless you are on the beach Now, with the 14 (?) hour time difference, if we assume that you were ransomed in your morning, then Awox would have gone to bed, woken up and blown you to bits seeing as its a new day. And a day isn't always 24 hours. Solar day, yes, but work day? waking day? As far as I'm concerned, when I wake up it a new day, whether its been 24hours after you paid the ransom or not. Oh, btw Awox: Aussie, Aussie, Aussie! -- Descending into madness.
Vulpis Lenchov Association of Commonwealth Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.19 11:14:00 - [67] Although I understand your frustration I don't think you have done the right thing by coming on here in the manner you did. For me the basic assumption for any ransom is they don't pod you on the spot, and anything else must be negotiated. I have encountered Awox once before for a negotiation and I must say he was very thorough. Although eventually I did not pay as the terms were not to my liking (something which got me set KOS for my troubles!!) ammendments such as an extended time period were factored in when i requested them. I think the lesson here is to make sure that you never assume anything, and that all details are hammered out exactly. I would put this one down to a mistake (no matter how much it was rubbed in your face). We have all made mistakes and we will all make more. Oh, and never think you need a reason to go and gank some pirates; it's the combat that they play the game for!
Awox Awox Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.20 05:57:00 - [68] Originally by: Rikkard Strofeldt Time doesn't go slower here in AU, unless you are on the beach Now, with the 14 (?) hour time difference, if we assume that you were ransomed in your morning, then Awox would have gone to bed, woken up and blown you to bits seeing as its a new day. And a day isn't always 24 hours. Solar day, yes, but work day? waking day? As far as I'm concerned, when I wake up it a new day, whether its been 24hours after you paid the ransom or not. Oh, btw Awox: Aussie, Aussie, Aussie! Oi! Oi! Oi! - nerf 0.5+
J4m Z Veto.	Posted - 2006.08.20 10:00:00 - [69] Originally by: Sonlatur Mistakes happen and i can well imagine that one gets confused about "a day" when living in different time zones. Of course, 24 hours do make sense and this is how it has to be understood in a strict sense, but one could easily mistake it as "till tomorrow". That being said, just paying back 1/2 of the fee is wrong. Imho one should pay the whole fee plus reimbursement for the ship. I read that disturbingly often here - "if he pays ransom and the npcs blow him up afterwards, i'll pay back a part of the ransom"... . What?! Why not all? I for one pay back the entire ransom and something towards replacing his ship. ---- Be careful you have just entered Terrorbear stomping grounds....
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.20 10:27:00 - [70] 1/2 honestly sounds fair, although i would have paid him back for his ship + 1/2 the ransom so this kinda **** doesn't spring up Tier 1 BS Lotto

Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.29 19:46:00 - [71] Necro bumpage for an old friend. The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :(
Yurii Chan	Posted - 2007.08.29 21:46:00 - [72] Originally by: Feng Schui Necro bumpage for an old friend. necro is bad! and lying is worse.. awox is bestest person in eve! period. 10000% legit and he rox0r
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.08.29 21:50:00 - [73] Just contract me the ammo at the price I agreed on and we're cool Feng Schui. No need to bring up this whole mess again.
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.29 21:57:00 - [74] tell you what... i'll go ahead and charge 50% more than what i'm charging now, since i'll still be cheaper than everyone else The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :(
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2007.08.29 22:00:00 - [75] Originally by: Feng Schui 2006.08.13 @ 00:13 I deposited 5 million isk into Awox's account for ransom for a *day* being left alone to mine / rat in Ennur by his corp (if it was just a personal ransom, i would have deposited 1 million isk) Did you agree on a period of a day or the period of the day again? to me that sounds like it could really have been miscommunication, until that is made perfectly clear to me.
orie16	Posted - 2007.08.29 22:55:00 - [76] i personly know awox's and his corp and i think he just missed up on the time its dose happen and he did pay back 2.5m Sh*t i know i would take it. He had the choice to kill me and it was a somewhat pvp tank test 5m to the winner. 1St one to get to the others hull Wins will he got to my hull and stoped. and i payed the 5m as of my word and i have not had a good background with awox but i do think your taking it little much. Orie
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.29 23:04:00 - [77] Edited by: Feng Schui on 29/08/2007 23:07:17 ah.. he's already paid for the losses.. 50x fold in market orders =) though.. 46 more days till i can fly a pilgrim.. perfect.. (started training for this ship that night) and ccp nerfs my setup.. gdmit edit: never forgive.. and never forget The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :(
Callthetruth Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.08.30 02:12:00 - [78] Originally by: Feng Schui Edited by: Feng Schui on 29/08/2007 23:07:17 ah.. he's already paid for the losses.. 50x fold in market orders =) though.. 46 more days till i can fly a pilgrim.. perfect.. (started training for this ship that night) and ccp nerfs my setup.. gdmit edit: never forgive.. and never forget Lol feng explains a few things have fun
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.30 03:01:00 - [79] The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :(
Cyber Crusader	Posted - 2007.08.30 03:02:00 - [80] There more guidelines then rules anyway.

Arrgs Retribution Corp. Enelaise	Posted - 2007.08.30 03:06:00 - [81] I can vouch for Awox honoring ransoms too. When I was a pirate my ransoms usually lasted until they left system or like 6ish hours if they didn't leave system. My first video!
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.08.30 09:07:00 - [82] Edited by: ry ry on 30/08/2007 09:07:59 in fairness, ~~five~~ 2.5 million is nothing at all. i'd happily pay some people that much to stop trying to convo me all the sodding time. what ship did you lose?
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.30 09:13:00 - [83] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/08/2007 09:14:37 Sorry, Feng, but this guy is right: Originally by: Galan Amarias Just my quick two centi-ISK. When making a deal with anyone you don't know, pirate, merc, noob, care bear, dev.. dosn't matter. Spell out exactly what you are paying for and exactly what terms aply. especially since we are all stuck with text as our only communicaiton tool. You need to be explicit. Not necessarily legalistic, and there is no need to argue over the meaning of words and whatnot, but say "I pay you X and I get X" and have them repeat it. That will then make it obvious if one party renegs on the deal and then you can bring the deal in all it's well defined glory to the boards. I don't see it as a dishonoured ransom, really, since, well, how were they supposed to know you paid for 24 hours without explicitly agreeing? Meeep, i fell for a necro ;( Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Arrgs Retribution Corp. Enelaise	Posted - 2007.08.30 13:41:00 - [84] Hay I fell for necro too. :( My first video!
heheheh Singularity. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.30 15:21:00 - [85] What a stupid post. Awox honours his ransoms. OP must be gutted that he was just another victim.


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