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Soul Huntress Out Siders	Posted - 2006.08.21 08:51:00 - [31] Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 21/08/2006 08:46:52 I think, CCP stated in the past that they can not determine if the person deliberately logged off, or ctd'd, or his conection crashed. It looks like this lame tactics can not be countered by CCP (as well as log on traps), so it's left to each pilot if to play fair or to play lame. if a whole gang of lets say 20+ very very often logs back in together at the same location exactly when there is one of their enemies there and they straight away gank it and then log off all but one scout it would be pretty evident even for a half blind and half witted GM that they are doing logon traps and not disconnecting randomly.
Soul Huntress Out Siders	Posted - 2006.08.21 08:52:00 - [32] and yes it can be countered with no module activation for 3min after login. wich would be enough
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:01:00 - [33] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/08/2006 09:01:19 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Change aggression timer in space to 60 minutes. Yes ... an -V- Guy did a ghey loggoff at the gate I was camping in MB-NKE... guy was trying to leave the area when he got cought by my camp. So he decided to just logg off with his hardners on and pray... too bad the astarte has a arseton of HP.... he disapeared while in structure. His name was Olli jenny... this really brinds shame to -V- imo. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Moghydin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Soul Huntress Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 21/08/2006 08:46:52 I think, CCP stated in the past that they can not determine if the person deliberately logged off, or ctd'd, or his conection crashed. It looks like this lame tactics can not be countered by CCP (as well as log on traps), so it's left to each pilot if to play fair or to play lame. if a whole gang of lets say 20+ very very often logs back in together at the same location exactly when there is one of their enemies there and they straight away gank it and then log off all but one scout it would be pretty evident even for a half blind and half witted GM that they are doing logon traps and not disconnecting randomly. Massive log on traps may be countered. But if someone logs off after jump while cloaked, or in a ship with massive HP, it's hard to determine whether it's deliberate or not. Making aggro timer 60min is a very bad idea. No one would like to float in space for 60 min after engagement in order to safely quit the game, after all, not everyone who logs off in space does that to save the ship or to make a log on trap.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:13:00 - [35] Originally by: Moghydin Originally by: Soul Huntress Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 21/08/2006 08:46:52 I think, CCP stated in the past that they can not determine if the person deliberately logged off, or ctd'd, or his conection crashed. It looks like this lame tactics can not be countered by CCP (as well as log on traps), so it's left to each pilot if to play fair or to play lame. if a whole gang of lets say 20+ very very often logs back in together at the same location exactly when there is one of their enemies there and they straight away gank it and then log off all but one scout it would be pretty evident even for a half blind and half witted GM that they are doing logon traps and not disconnecting randomly. Massive log on traps may be countered. But if someone logs off after jump while cloaked, or in a ship with massive HP, it's hard to determine whether it's deliberate or not. Making aggro timer 60min is a very bad idea. No one would like to float in space for 60 min after engagement in order to safely quit the game, after all, not everyone who logs off in space does that to save the ship or to make a log on trap. Ok... Olli logs in to G-7... insta's to the gate... is cought at gate... so he logs off... 45 minutes later he logs back in... finds gate clear or just keeps logging on and off until he isn't dumped at gate... and then instas out of the system. That is pretty crap... using a loop hole to deny someone thier fun in a game about loss. Not only is that lame... if anyone in my corp was cought doing it they'd get a chewing out and 2nd offense gets das boot. If you can't live with loss then leave the damn game. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Roxanna Kell Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 21/08/2006 08:46:52 I think, CCP stated in the past that they can not determine if the person deliberately logged off, or ctd'd, or his conection crashed. It looks like this lame tactics can not be countered by CCP (as well as log on traps), so it's left to each pilot if to play fair or to play lame. i guese that ll be the end of it. all we can do is wait.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:34:00 - [37] Originally by: Moghydin Originally by: Soul Huntress Originally by: Moghydin Edited by: Moghydin on 21/08/2006 08:46:52 I think, CCP stated in the past that they can not determine if the person deliberately logged off, or ctd'd, or his conection crashed. It looks like this lame tactics can not be countered by CCP (as well as log on traps), so it's left to each pilot if to play fair or to play lame. if a whole gang of lets say 20+ very very often logs back in together at the same location exactly when there is one of their enemies there and they straight away gank it and then log off all but one scout it would be pretty evident even for a half blind and half witted GM that they are doing logon traps and not disconnecting randomly. Massive log on traps may be countered. But if someone logs off after jump while cloaked, or in a ship with massive HP, it's hard to determine whether it's deliberate or not. Making aggro timer 60min is a very bad idea. No one would like to float in space for 60 min after engagement in order to safely quit the game, after all, not everyone who logs off in space does that to save the ship or to make a log on trap. I've ctded right after jumping through a gate on a few occasions. Difference between that and a 'zomg log off'? Well, hard to tell really, I mean, I _could_ have killed my client with task manager or something. Generally I would agree though. Logging on/off as a combat tactic is all manners of lame. Things like sniping with stabs might be a bit lame, but at least it's possible to scout, and with a bit of effort counter. Ganking with a cloaker so you don't show up has it's limitations too. Logonski/logoffski quite simply doesn't have enough limitations on it. It's far too easy to do with TS/vent co-ordination, and far too effective. Personally, I'd go with a 'no hostile act' timer - you can't activate an ECM/turret/launcher/webber until someone attacks you, within 5 minutes of logging on. And a PvP timer that counts if _anyone_ shoots, not just the person on the ship. Oh, and ideally also have sovereignty mean a ship doesn't disappear after the timer unless it belongs to someone in the appropriate alliance.
IDesert FoxI	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:38:00 - [38] how would you tell betweem a log off and say, a power cut at an unfortunate time?
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:44:00 - [39] Originally by: IDesert FoxI how would you tell betweem a log off and say, a power cut at an unfortunate time? You can't. Because if you did, then the people who logoffski would pull the power on their 'puter. However what you can do is work towards a solution that balances out. Things like the PvP timer does this (e.g if you fight, your ship stays in space and they can hunt you down). Having a 'login' timer would also go some way towards this.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:53:00 - [40] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 21/08/2006 09:55:42 Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/08/2006 09:01:19 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Change aggression timer in space to 60 minutes. Yes ... an -V- Guy did a ghey loggoff at the gate I was camping in MB-NKE... guy was trying to leave the area when he got cought by my camp. So he decided to just logg off with his hardners on and pray... too bad the astarte has a arseton of HP.... he disapeared while in structure. His name was Olli jenny... this really brinds shame to -V- imo. Dunno. It seems everyone needs to adapt the game. I also thinking of playing borderline play, alt abuse, log tactics, whatever. CCP will only do something when things get bubbled up. If others do it, why shouldnt you? Adapt or die. To misquote the misquoted, "Darwinism filters the weak". --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn.
Zekks MarKeys	Posted - 2006.08.21 09:59:00 - [41] I know an aliance that uses logon traps but aaa won't mention any names Anyway i was told by someone that they will use any means necessary as most of them don't live in europe and make their living from eve selling isk and gtc and whatever. Tbh if that was the case for me and it would buy little jhonny a xmas present i would probably do it. As i play for fun and not to make cash then i wouldn't do it.
Roxanna Kell Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:05:00 - [42] on/off/on//off withing 30 seconds, aitn a power cut or internet disconnection.
tookar Amarr Krookid	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:18:00 - [43] Everyone gets power cuts and disconnects . Change the logoff timer to 60 minutes like jenny said and tough luck if you get disconnected ! I mean cmon how many times do you happen to crash when jumping into a small gatecamp? Id say the small amopunt of people losing ships because of this is a small price to pay for one of the steps that will actually make pvp slightly (other things need doing too ie local) better in eve.
dabster Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:20:00 - [44] Last night was complete CRAP though in and near yz, emergencywarped and ctd'd 2-3 times in an hour myself. Not defending anything cause i dont have the person added so dunno what happened, i just know who when and where hence the comment^. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:22:00 - [45] Just goto explain to me WTF it is sooo god dam important to kill someone in snake implants...I swear that is 99% of the problem in eve, people have no other farking excuse for what they do beyond to cause someone else SEVERE misery. I swear i never seen a game with soo many hardcore losers who will blob the living crap out of a player just to hopefully cause said player some kinda mental misery by them losing alot of hard earned work. it is a rare day indeed when someon actually has the balls to fight you straight up in this game, every dam time i bump into someone here it comes pack of rabid dog friends none of them can play a lick themselves goto mob you to win, then they whine if for some reason you get away LMAO... serios how big of losers are you people in real life to get off on this crap? /rant off
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:36:00 - [46] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 21/08/2006 09:55:42 Originally by: Kaylana Syi Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/08/2006 09:01:19 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Change aggression timer in space to 60 minutes. Yes ... an -V- Guy did a ghey loggoff at the gate I was camping in MB-NKE... guy was trying to leave the area when he got cought by my camp. So he decided to just logg off with his hardners on and pray... too bad the astarte has a arseton of HP.... he disapeared while in structure. His name was Olli jenny... this really brinds shame to -V- imo. Dunno. It seems everyone needs to adapt the game. I also thinking of playing borderline play, alt abuse, log tactics, whatever. CCP will only do something when things get bubbled up. If others do it, why shouldnt you? Adapt or die. To misquote the misquoted, "Darwinism filters the weak". Adapt or die? Lets see... that would require more training, more investment and more time than the other person to counter their abuse of the game mechanic. There is no adapt there... their is only "lame sod" and "its not bannable" arguments flairing. And that is what needs to change. If it is perfectly acceptable for the DEVS to say EVE is a PvP game with massive loss... then they should be willing to anty up and make lame tactics like this less savvy for abuse. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Roxanna Kell on/off/on//off withing 30 seconds, aitn a power cut or internet disconnection. QFT That is them trying to not end up warping back at the gate they fell victim to. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Arkanor Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:41:00 - [48] Originally by: Roxanna Kell on/off/on//off withing 30 seconds, aitn a power cut or internet disconnection. That happened to me, and I was just trying to change a skill. Although I was in a station Originally by: Ghosthowl WoW = hardcore paladins smashin dat face. Originally by: HippoKing I just cried, you know that?
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Just goto explain to me WTF it is sooo god dam important to kill someone in snake implants...I swear that is 99% of the problem in eve, people have no other farking excuse for what they do beyond to cause someone else SEVERE misery. I swear i never seen a game with soo many hardcore losers who will blob the living crap out of a player just to hopefully cause said player some kinda mental misery by them losing alot of hard earned work. it is a rare day indeed when someon actually has the balls to fight you straight up in this game, every dam time i bump into someone here it comes pack of rabid dog friends none of them can play a lick themselves goto mob you to win, then they whine if for some reason you get away LMAO... serios how big of losers are you people in real life to get off on this crap? /rant off -V- are bitter about IAC's tactics in the Tournament. That is what they said in local in G-7WUF. For the past week they have been in IAC space. I am not IAC but I am a 3 year resident of Catch. -V- ganked one of my corp's cruisers at the IAC outpost earlier in the evening. Then they logged off for a few hours. I was camping the gates to make sure when they logged back on to return to their space or to an ISS neutral station that they would meet the guns of my corporation and show them that if they fck with us we will act the monkey too. One did fall victim... wrong place wrong time just like my m8. And he logged off like a coward btch. IMO -V- has atleast one coward in their ranks and all another -V- has said here is 'adapt or die.' He logged in about an hour later to see if it was safe. Its easy to avoid a gate once logged off... its a mater of logging and relogging then using insta's. Then they still have access to teh tools to see if there is a warp bubble or dictor sphere on the gate they wish to leave out of. Out of game evasion to escape ingame consequenses. That is the problem... it wasn't a random guy who is beign ganked for the sake of the gank. It was consequences for actions. So... the only looser here is the fact is EVE-Online PvP... and the true griefer is the -LV- coward laughing at all the people he ****ed off tonight using one of the lamest tricks in the book. Nanobotter if you don't think loss is a part of this game... then leave it... plain and simple. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Roxanna Kell Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.21 10:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Roxanna Kell on/off/on//off withing 30 seconds, aitn a power cut or internet disconnection. QFT That is them trying to not end up warping back at the gate they fell victim to. indeed. thats what iam pointing out, but mostly people dont pay enogh attention to what is being said, instead they like flaming over BOB related stuff
Kahor Minmatar Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.21 11:03:00 - [51] Originally by: Selena 001 Originally by: Roxanna Kell we killed this vaga, who got into the bubble, his pod warped off. because he agrod, we brought in someone to probe him, so we can get his pod, instead he keeps log in in, and out rweally fast, conteniousl, so his pod doesnt warp back to wer ehe logged off, instead it will go back were he loggged off the second time, hence exploit. dont care if you love it, i hate it, otherwise we can never kill anyone with full snake implants or somehing He could have evaded you in a single system for hours if all he had was a pod. He did you both a favor by just getting to the end result faster. You should be thanking him for not wasting your time That's not true, the bubble would have stopped him warping off, unless he managed to do 10km in his pod at 150 m/s without being caught... Blatant exploit in my eye, try petitionning, you never know. An eye for an eye make a whole world blind.
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.08.21 11:13:00 - [52] Out of curiosity Kaylana, did that -V- Astarte log before dropping out of warp? (And hence emergency warp) Or did he actually wait until he was dropping out of warp, and then simply log before being aggressed and disappear after 1 minute right in the grid you were shooting him?
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.21 11:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Testicular Testes Out of curiosity Kaylana, did that -V- Astarte log before dropping out of warp? (And hence emergency warp) Or did he actually wait until he was dropping out of warp, and then simply log before being aggressed and disappear after 1 minute right in the grid you were shooting him? I was at a gate... He jumped into the system. As soon as the ship appeared on the grid I tackled him ( he was 16km away ) and was firing on him with barrage ammo. My corp had a Pilgrim and a Sleipnir on him with 2 points on his warp system. I had him into armor when an IAC blackbird warped in and put 2 more points on him. I took him into structure and he disappeared. There was no emergency warp since you don't do that if you logg off while your cloak timer is still activated. If you have enough HP on your ship to survive 45 seconds you are god. He logged off as soon as he saw he was cought. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Auntie Bob Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.08.21 11:40:00 - [54] If you are camping a hostile system in 0.0 and there are no NPC pos's around, the only place to logoff is a safespot even then there is a chance of getting ganked. Why cant you log safely at a pos? instead of being warped 1000000km from the pos with a good chance of getting ganked? Increasing the logoff timer will increase ganks when people log for the night . CCP seem to have a good counter for the logoff tactic it only seems to fail when the pod gets away, at the end of the day its a pod and you've done the hardwork killing the ship?
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.21 11:52:00 - [55] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/08/2006 11:54:48 Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/08/2006 11:53:35 Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/08/2006 11:52:41 Originally by: Auntie Bob If you are camping a hostile system in 0.0 and there are no NPC pos's around, the only place to logoff is a safespot even then there is a chance of getting ganked. Why cant you log safely at a pos? instead of being warped 1000000km from the pos with a good chance of getting ganked? Increasing the logoff timer will increase ganks when people log for the night . CCP seem to have a good counter for the logoff tactic it only seems to fail when the pod gets away, at the end of the day its a pod and you've done the hardwork killing the ship? I didn't get the ship. The ship logged off before he uncloaked at the gate. Command ships have a arseload of HP when you factor in resistances especially an astarte. I was shooting at a pilot-less ship that disapeared right before it went boom. Because he didn't want to loose his ship after ganking other people. When he logged back in an hour later he still had his ship and all his modules. I could care less about pods. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Deja Thoris Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.21 12:34:00 - [56] Originally by: tookar Everyone gets power cuts and disconnects . Change the logoff timer to 60 minutes like jenny said and tough luck if you get disconnected ! I mean cmon how many times do you happen to crash when jumping into a small gatecamp? Id say the small amopunt of people losing ships because of this is a small price to pay for one of the steps that will actually make pvp slightly (other things need doing too ie local) better in eve. This has jack to do with the topic on hand. Topic at hand is sabotaging logins to make your ship emergency warp 1mill km. Agree with the OP it needs fixing. (Along with many other log-in /out sploits)
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.21 12:41:00 - [57] Make ships persistent. Enable people to disable emergency warpoff. Thereby you solve: - log in trap exploit. - logging out exploit. - as long as emergency warp is not disabled, you still don't have to lose your ship to NPCs due to a disconnect. - if you disconnect in pvp, you're outta luck if your opponent can scan you down. - by making it possible to disable emergency warp, you can reasonably safely logout at a POS. - Only real safespot is of course a station. See how many problems you solve here? 80% of Eve lives in empire, never more than a jump or two away from a station anyway. Only 0.0 inhabitants can have to travel a distance to a station or a POS, but I think many of us (I live in 0.0) are more ****ed off at login traps and gankers logging off when cornered than we would suffer from occasionally not making it to a station. If you want to make it really easy, you could change autopilot and make it also dock you in a station at the end of a journey. So that even if you have to leave all of a sudden, you just put the ship on AP and hope he makes it.
Auman Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:08:00 - [58] This was very very galling when it happened last night. It's very frustrating to know that he'll be in his dictor in the next fleet fight doing stupid speeds and being very tough to kill. I would just prefer than regardless of whether you log off, crash or your house explodes your ship or pod in eve will not auto warp out of a bubble... ever. Log on "tactics" (for people who aren't good at eve) are something else. Not idea how to police those
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:17:00 - [59] Isn't it getting changed in Kali to where if you don't have soverignity in a system and you logoff in space, your ship doesnt dissappear? Could just be hearsay....personally, I love the idea. ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Hamshoe	Posted - 2006.08.21 14:12:00 - [60] Originally by: eLLioTT wave [If your connection dies bad luck, think of it as an engine malfuntion, warp drive malfunction, software error ect in your ship, it happens occasionally. If the occasions weren't so frequent, that'd be fine. Seriously need a stability improvement before you can reasonably start penalizing disconnections. Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse?

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