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Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:30:00 - [1] After viewing the latest (wonderful) eve online alliances map, i see red alliance have taken back a region. what does this mean for the area itself? Clearly the efforts to remove red alliance is failing.....what are the latest reports from the battlefield? -------------------------- 0.01 ISK to the first mod that writes in my sig! :D
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:34:00 - [2] Your intentions are good but tbh this post is going to bring tons of smack from coalition about log off tactics and pos lag warfare. In rust we trust!!!
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:34:00 - [3] Coconuts!
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:38:00 - [4] well i hope they stay out >.< i enjoy good talk about eve online warfare, and its nice to talk about a fight in which i have nothing to do with and can happly comment on :) -------------------------- 0.01 ISK to the first mod that writes in my sig! :D
Skrypt Gallente Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:08:00 - [5] RA =/ not fun. LV/Coalition = play for fun. EVE = game. Given this, we're owning everything + RA until game mechanics change. ___________
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:21:00 - [6] I left -V- because I was tired of POS warfare and RA's cheap tactics. This is not intended as smack - it's just my point of view on the matter. As one of the guys who participated in the siege of F2A with a dreadnought, I can tell you that dealing with spammed POS is mind-numbingly boring. It gets even worse when you can't KILL the POS because an RA hauler shows up the moment you start shooting it and resets the strontium level to come out of reinforced during a time when you have few capital pilots available. At that time, RA jumps in a bunch of carriers and boosts the POS shields back up to full and refuels it, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it because you don't have the forces during that timezone. POS-spam warfare = lame. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
ZePequerio Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Skrypt LV/Coalition = play for fun. You're kidding right ? A coalition of more than 10 000 pilots against an alliance of 800 pilots and you dare to say that ? I don't see where is the fun ...But RA must have a lot of fun with all those targets they even took back cache. Keep it up RA that's impressive.
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:26:00 - [8] Originally by: ZePequerio Originally by: Skrypt LV/Coalition = play for fun. You're kidding right ? A coalition of more than 10 000 pilots against an alliance of 800 pilots and you dare to say that ? I don't see where is the fun ...But RA must have a lot of fun with all those targets they even took back cache. Keep it up RA that's impressive. Using cheap tactics is impressive how, again? -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
ashley mantis Deep Space Productions	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: ZePequerio Originally by: Skrypt LV/Coalition = play for fun. You're kidding right ? A coalition of more than 10 000 pilots against an alliance of 800 pilots and you dare to say that ? I don't see where is the fun ...But RA must have a lot of fun with all those targets they even took back cache. Keep it up RA that's impressive. Using cheap tactics is impressive how, again? cheap tactics? saying that while having more than 10:1 ratio at base numbers, that my friend is cheap tactics. what isnt cheap tactics is a vastly outnumbered alliance using game mechanics to fend off all you, while taking regions from you, thats not cheap, thats skill.
Kanae Minmatar Vogon Deconstruction Fleet Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:36:00 - [10] well timeing a strontium supply for a time that is good for your is cheap? well timeing your attack for when RA numbers are low is cheap? both sound tactical to me but thats just my 2 isk
Pehova Mindtriq Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Wrayeth It gets even worse when you can't KILL the POS because an RA hauler shows up the moment you start shooting it and resets the strontium level to come out of reinforced during a time when you have few capital pilots available. At that time, RA jumps in a bunch of carriers and boosts the POS shields back up to full and refuels it, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it because you don't have the forces during that timezone. POS-spam warfare = lame. They master the game mechanics that's for sure. If the devs change the game mechinics to favour the attackers RA will still find a way to survive because they have that dedication so many other alliances lack. Celes vs Xelas
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:39:00 - [12] Scott Evil: It's no hassle... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: But... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: I'm... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: All I'm say... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: There gonna get a... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: I'm... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: I'm just... Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: Would... Dr. Evil: Sh!... Knock-knock. Scott Evil: Who's there? Dr. Evil: Sh! Scott Evil: But... Dr. Evil: Let me tell you a little story about a man named Sh! Sh! even before you start. That was a pre-emptive "sh!" Now, I have a whole bag of "sh!" with your name on it.
Stormhold FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq Originally by: Wrayeth It gets even worse when you can't KILL the POS because an RA hauler shows up the moment you start shooting it and resets the strontium level to come out of reinforced during a time when you have few capital pilots available. At that time, RA jumps in a bunch of carriers and boosts the POS shields back up to full and refuels it, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it because you don't have the forces during that timezone. POS-spam warfare = lame. They master the game mechanics that's for sure. If the devs change the game mechinics to favour the attackers RA will still find a way to survive because they have that dedication so many other alliances lack. The system already supports attackers (as long as they get a couple of poses planted) since practically once you plant a pos you get to be a defender and defend it.
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.23 19:41:00 - [14] Originally by: ashley mantis cheap tactics? saying that while having more than 10:1 ratio at base numbers, that my friend is cheap tactics. what isnt cheap tactics is a vastly outnumbered alliance using game mechanics to fend off all you, while taking regions from you, thats not cheap, thats skill. That's not skill - anyone can do what RA's doing if they're strong during a timezone when their opponent is weak. That's the problem, and one of the (many) reasons POS warfare sucks. As for cheap tactics, have you ever fought RA? No? Well, let me mention a few things. * Log on traps. * Warp core stabs (lots of them). * Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. I could mention quite a few more, but I can't be bothered to type out a long post today. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Drilla Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:05:00 - [15] Originally by: ashley mantis Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: ZePequerio Originally by: Skrypt LV/Coalition = play for fun. You're kidding right ? A coalition of more than 10 000 pilots against an alliance of 800 pilots and you dare to say that ? I don't see where is the fun ...But RA must have a lot of fun with all those targets they even took back cache. Keep it up RA that's impressive. Using cheap tactics is impressive how, again? cheap tactics? saying that while having more than 10:1 ratio at base numbers, that my friend is cheap tactics. what isnt cheap tactics is a vastly outnumbered alliance using game mechanics to fend off all you, while taking regions from you, thats not cheap, thats skill. See, that's how b0rked the gamemechanics are atm. when 10:1 cant do anything. Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Wrayeth have you ever fought RA? No? Well, let me mention a few things. * Log on traps. * Warp core stabs (lots of them). * Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. LOL!!! Logon traps. petition it. WarpCoreStabs? against an enemy 10:1 i'd fit 8wcs if I could. Just to make you cry like a little baby on those forums. Omg the covert trick - omg lol it just makes me laugh - you are just not good enough to fight RA-like alliance... Now please, give me the insert_multiple_whine_here TIMEZONES. A free tip for you (not personaly): Don't call yourself an alliance or anything close if a 800 angry people alliance fight until death with their teeth and let you every evening from 10pm (aprox for you)[that's when you should have the max people] alone in all their home systems. Please, get organised. I heard a guy say : at the exact same time 800 alarm-clocks ring all over the world. If you ain't ready to do that, then you ain't ready to kill the mighty Red Alliance. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:07:00 - [17] ola drilla. o7 ♥ Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Kuang V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:08:00 - [18] Pehova Mindtriq said it right ... RA has the determination to do what it takes and adjust there fighting style with the changes of the game IMO they are the worst alliance in the game to attack ... they don't know the word quit CDC Forums
DirtyHarry Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:09:00 - [19] I'm no fan of RA however I am impressed at how they are holding out against such odds. RA got this Havocide - DirtyHarry
Riley Craven Caldari Black Eclipse Corp	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:12:00 - [20] Originally by: Wrayeth I left -V- because I was tired of POS warfare and RA's cheap tactics. This is not intended as smack - it's just my point of view on the matter. As one of the guys who participated in the siege of F2A with a dreadnought, I can tell you that dealing with spammed POS is mind-numbingly boring. It gets even worse when you can't KILL the POS because an RA hauler shows up the moment you start shooting it and resets the strontium level to come out of reinforced during a time when you have few capital pilots available. At that time, RA jumps in a bunch of carriers and boosts the POS shields back up to full and refuels it, and there's not a damned thing you can do about it because you don't have the forces during that timezone. POS-spam warfare = lame. Wrayeth, on many occasions I have respected what you have had to say. However, on this issue I think you are flat wrong. Haulers putting in levels to a time when they are strongest is not lame, especially trying to fend off the numbers you guys are throwing at them. Secondly even if they were the stronger party its still not lame because its their space and they have a right to defend it. While POS warefare is insanely boring, I dont think its fair of you or anyone else to call Red lame just because you cant kill them and are frustrated by the system. I will say that using lots ot stabs on combat ships is lame, and ccp seems to think so as well with some changes I have seen them want to implement. Log on tactics, well lets just say if you can think of a way to enable an ambush that is acceptable to everyone then you can comment on whether this is a cheat or not. And as far as keeping a covert op cloaked in a system to prevent you from using it is not lame, its just smart. Again maybe not skillfull, you have no right to call them lame just because you are frustrated.
zincol S.A.S	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:16:00 - [21] Impressive how RA kept themselfs motivated for so long,very tight strong alliance or even friends. Nice work RA.
Krychton Amarr Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:18:00 - [22] Considering the odds stacked against them, I don't blame them for using such tactics. I'm rather impressed that they can hold against such overwhelming odds. ----
Renu Occassus Republica Process of Elimination	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:18:00 - [23] do RA really have more posts about them then BoB has ? BTW Kudos to RA for everything that they have done ... I¦ve been in a couple of the coalition fleets .. and Coalition talks about RA never fighting outnumbered .. I remember when RA was blobbed 5 to 1 .. (around 500 to 100) and they still came in fought .. killed more then they lost .. warped out .. killed a freighter filled with POS towers costing KOS alot of isk ... GJ Max sig image dimensions are 400w x 120h & 24,000 byte file size. --Jorauk
Dust Angel True Core	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:22:00 - [24] Well, considering that most russians are about to get iced in, and everyone else is going back to school/work, the winter expansion of RA is inevitable. _____________________________________ Stressed out with empire politics? Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
Akira Kaneshiro Caldari Associated Press	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Wrayeth whining stuff read my sig ---- sig of truth ---- Stop whining. Deal with it or quit the game.
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:44:00 - [26] Originally by: Renu I remember when RA was blobbed 5 to 1 .. (around 500 to 100) and they still came in fought .. killed more then they lost .. warped out .. killed a freighter filled with POS towers costing KOS alot of isk ... Hehe I remember that day. LV guys tried to convince us freighter was empty This evening was kinda my personal record. During whole evening i was jumping on gate with 200+ hostile pilots on it. Scored 6 solo killmails BTW for those who whinning about lags during C-J siege. Lags in JLO were much worse. --------------------
Double G Caldari CRICE Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: ashley mantis cheap tactics? saying that while having more than 10:1 ratio at base numbers, that my friend is cheap tactics. what isnt cheap tactics is a vastly outnumbered alliance using game mechanics to fend off all you, while taking regions from you, thats not cheap, thats skill. That's not skill - anyone can do what RA's doing if they're strong during a timezone when their opponent is weak. That's the problem, and one of the (many) reasons POS warfare sucks. As for cheap tactics, have you ever fought RA? No? Well, let me mention a few things. * Log on traps. * Warp core stabs (lots of them). * Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. I could mention quite a few more, but I can't be bothered to type out a long post today. Cry more?
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.23 20:58:00 - [28] Originally by: Double G Cry more? LOL, not my problem anymore. I've given up on alliances that have to deal with sovereignty until they make it FUN. Right now it's mind-numbingly boring and can also be ridiculously frustrating. I'm paying CCP to provide an enjoyable pasttime, and POS-spam warfare isn't enjoyable in the least. For now, I'm just going to shoot other players and have fun doing it. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Double G Caldari CRICE Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:01:00 - [29] POS wars 4tl.
Evengard Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:04:00 - [30] Edited by: Evengard on 23/08/2006 21:28:13 Originally by: Dust Angel Well, considering that most russians are about to get iced in, and everyone else is going back to school/work, the winter expansion of RA is inevitable. Here you got very very wrong. Summer is vacation time and rest. Girls, sea, beer. Bad weather getting us closer to monitors... and killing... And as for other forum whiners, is you don't like the way we fight leave there regions for more safe Empire space. 0.0 are not for you. At least here. South alway be a war zone. ___________________ Recon and Intercept
Joycalyn REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:24:00 - [31] It's time for Big expansion. Like the oregon trail right now with wagons full of POSes. Chowdown > you have died.. of dysentery... But seriously, anyone who is interested to jump on the RA bandwagon and get free pie* now is a good time (guilty as charged) Contact whoever the hell our diplomat is now...something like 1400mm II Have you recieved your smack immunization? Call 555-STFU
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:35:00 - [32] Dr. Evil: All right guard, begin the unnecessarily slow-moving dipping mechanism. [guard starts dipping mechanism] Dr. Evil: Close the tank! Scott Evil: Wait, aren't you even going to watch them? They could get away! Dr. Evil: No no no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying, I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. What? Scott Evil: I have a gun, in my room, you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll blow their brains out! Dr. Evil: Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't.
Light Darkness Seraphin Technologies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:57:00 - [33] Fact is: - The Game mechanics dont allowed us to fight this POS-War = boring and no results - RA did a good job to defend thier POSes = we learned much for our own systems - 10000 People against 800 isnt right. = You need only 1 or 2 paying People 1 hauler and 3 Carriers to hold completly systems - -V- is bored to fight this POS-War against RA. = this War goes over 1 1/2 years now We will have our fun. RA shows up last days and step on our wrong feet. We got some other thinks to do. GJ RA btw. Lets have some PvP fun again in the pipe. Regards /LD --------------------- -V-eritas Immortalis Killboard
Addicus Zed Ferinus Vis	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:58:00 - [34] From the looks of things, RA has been trying to regain their space back for some time now. And it's pretty impressive to see them slowly regain their foothold although being outnumbered like crazy. Don't think much alliance have such dedication like what RA have. Bare in mind, if something is allowed within the game mechanics of EVE...they're not lame, CCP would have removed them by now if itÆs against the mechanics. Lame is how you perceive it and not what can or cannot be done. If you can't beat it or don't like it, don't whine. Just move on and do something else which suites u better.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:59:00 - [35] Most impressive effort RA, respect. As for the coalition.. Just because RA are using tactics that exploit your weaknesses, does not make them 'cheap' strategies. Bringing 10:1 odds is cheap, fighting those 10:1 odds outside there peak hours is common sense.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 21:59:00 - [36] Edited by: Ab Initio on 23/08/2006 22:00:29 Grr, double post.
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:00:00 - [37] ra still being alive is a sad reflection of the current flawed game mechanics imo. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Archonon Caldari Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Wrayeth As for cheap tactics, have you ever fought RA? No? Well, let me mention a few things. * Log on traps. * Warp core stabs (lots of them). * Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. I could mention quite a few more, but I can't be bothered to type out a long post today. U're really play in a carebear world. GJ RA ... see u soon again _______________________ Exitus Acta Probat
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:19:00 - [39] Originally by: Archonon U're really play in a carebear world. Aside from the fact that "u're" isn't a word, wtf are you talking about? -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:28:00 - [40] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Archonon U're really play in a carebear world. Aside from the fact that "u're" isn't a word, wtf are you talking about? Lol man. get your ideas straight. You ain't arguing on his grammar are you? Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:29:00 - [41] I'm not sure what LV and -V- are whining about, should an alliance that can mobilize 60 people 23/7 to defend their territory be destroyed by another who can bring 400 people 2 hours a day, 3 days a week ? Dedicated, smart and experienced players > sheer numbers ? Is that a proof of broken game mechanism ? No matter what the game mechanisms will be, I'm confident that RA players will always find a way to overcome the odds. I love how LV and -V- make it sounds like it's easy. Do you get up at 5am before going to work to save a PoS frequently for your alliance ? You might call them mad or whatever, but fact is that 1 RA player is not worth 1 player of another alliance, these guys are serious about fighting for their territory and I'm glad that blobbing a system once a month can not possibly be enough to fight players like those in RA.
Nebba Kenezzer Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Joycalyn It's time for Big expansion. Now is a great time. Don't be bashful. Fleet engagements would be prime outside of station systems for a change. Nebba - The Vocal Majority
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Omeega Lol man. get your ideas straight. You ain't arguing on his grammar are you? I'm saying that, grammar aside, his post made no sense. I was talking about issues with cheap and lame tactics in PvP and he refers to living in a "carebear world". -shrugs- -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Himo Amasacia Minmatar Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:36:00 - [44] My memories of RA are one incident. I was in Free Space Alliance at the time and they were about to assault a 5 POS. I was too late to move with the main fleet and so I was flying in my Rupture totally alone through 0.0. 2 RA Apocs found me going through a gate. They, on their own initiative, started escorting me down. They never spoke a word to me, and I only realised what they were doing after a couple of jumps, but it was compleatly amasing that 2 guys in battleships could take time out to escort a fairly insignificant little cruiser from a friendly alliance though dangerous space. For that they have my eternal gratitude and respect. And it is great to see them fighting tooth and nail to claw back what is theirs. Good luck guys, and respect to all of you.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.08.23 22:39:00 - [45] heh i was pretty spot on, only took 2 posts after mine for the smack to commense In rust we trust!!!
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:01:00 - [46] Simple fact. The coalition had roughly 10:1 advantage in manpower over RA. The way that was employed ended up being more of a liability than the assest it should have been. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:22:00 - [47] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists ra still being alive is a sad reflection of the current flawed game mechanics imo. My thoughs exactly , when 10000 players VS 800 and still they cant win due to game mechanics it just shows how it is flawd dont think there is any other game or RL situation that this huge contradiction can happen. On a side note POS wars in addition to lag will lead to a huge Queue of ppl quitign their alliances and corps , its already happening "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
ashley mantis Deep Space Productions	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: ashley mantis cheap tactics? saying that while having more than 10:1 ratio at base numbers, that my friend is cheap tactics. what isnt cheap tactics is a vastly outnumbered alliance using game mechanics to fend off all you, while taking regions from you, thats not cheap, thats skill. That's not skill - anyone can do what RA's doing if they're strong during a timezone when their opponent is weak. That's the problem, and one of the (many) reasons POS warfare sucks. As for cheap tactics, have you ever fought RA? No? Well, let me mention a few things. * Log on traps. * Warp core stabs (lots of them). * Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. I could mention quite a few more, but I can't be bothered to type out a long post today. Not skill? define what skill is. Its ignorant to say skill is only measured by pure military might, the logistics that go into what RA is doing is immense. Its a chore to keep jst 1 pos running, let alone 100's of them while being 30 jumps from empire, surrounded on all sides by enemies, and being outnumbered 10:1. That is skill, though i guess, since you are all saying it isnt skill it would mean you guys jst have a lack there of. Now onto complaining about timezones. Did RA change thier timezones after you guys all invaded them? no, infact you all knew what timezones they are in before the war even started. Therefor you have no reason to complain about timezones, especially when they can say the same about you. Have i fought RA? funny how you assume i havent(goes to show how much truth goes into what wrayeth is saying, assumptions based on nothing), not only have i fought them, i have also flown alongside them. log on traps, not denying its cheap tactics, but im sure all 10000 of you guys arent angels either. wcs, do i really need to respond? theyre in the game, theyre meant to be used, deal with it or go play something else. cloaked ships, thats jst good smart tactics tbh.
Rai Ardose Caldari Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:32:00 - [49] well i can tell you that keeping up 23/7 camps for a very long period of time is quite frustrating and boring, and imo nearly impossible.
Pehova Mindtriq Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:40:00 - [50] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists ra still being alive is a sad reflection of the current flawed game mechanics imo. My thoughs exactly , when 10000 players VS 800 and still they cant win due to game mechanics it just shows how it is flawd dont think there is any other game or RL situation that this huge contradiction can happen. On a side note POS wars in addition to lag will lead to a huge Queue of ppl quitign their alliances and corps , its already happening I think the game mechanics would be flawed if numbers were the only thing that mattered in this game. Celes vs Xelas
Monarch Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:40:00 - [51] Been there seen it first hand and it's lame. RA(t) are at the forefront of sploit discovery and impementation.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:45:00 - [52] Edited by: Yazoul Samaiel on 23/08/2006 23:46:28 Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq I think the game mechanics would be flawed if numbers were the only thing that mattered in this game. there is a difference between numbers and ratios , i am not talking about even odds or outnumbering , i am comparing a huge ratio which u can call overwhelming which is technicaly the huge number thats supposed to wipe out all odds if this huge number is still not able to beat the small opposing force then deffo the mechanics are borked its liek saying u cant beat one man with 100 dudes hammering him or a more closer one that one ship is able to tank 100 ships shootign it. Infinity is always greater than 1 . "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:47:00 - [53] Ration = Ratio , my bad and the damn edit feature doesnt work for soem odd reason "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
Vily Lilium Venture Initiative	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:02:00 - [54] The interesting thing, i think, is that RA support is growing while coalition support continues to dwindle or become bored. I have no doubt that the coalition will find lots of new alliances to take up the role of the old ones, but RA in general is actually winning the hearts and minds of the people. They fight outnumbered, continually and they dont give up. And everyone has to respect that. I dont doubt that they have done their fair share of "exploiting" etc. but in general when your fighting a big bully, you do what it takes. RA is doing what it takes to survive. T The coalition wishes more than anything else to crush RA, but all that would mean would be internal strife and fighting within 2 months. RA will likely focus on continuing their hold of their current stronghold and maybe look to expand to one other system, but as long as the coalition continues to loom and press they will be hardpressed to do anything against them offensively. Listed as Such, I claim nothing but existense. know me true -Vily
Pehova Mindtriq Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:09:00 - [55] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Edited by: Yazoul Samaiel on 23/08/2006 23:46:28 Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq I think the game mechanics would be flawed if numbers were the only thing that mattered in this game. there is a difference between numbers and ratios , i am not talking about even odds or outnumbering , i am comparing a huge ratio which u can call overwhelming which is technicaly the huge number thats supposed to wipe out all odds if this huge number is still not able to beat the small opposing force then deffo the mechanics are borked its liek saying u cant beat one man with 100 dudes hammering him or a more closer one that one ship is able to tank 100 ships shootign it. Infinity is always greater than 1 . It doesn't matter if you change the word to ratio, my opinion is still the same. So many alliances have died because of the ratio they are up against. That shows that blobbing your enemy is supported by game mechanics. I think it's good that RA is surviving because that shows that game mechanics still gives the outnumbered faction a chance. Boosting your ratio shouldn't be a "I-win-button". Celes vs Xelas
Abye	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:09:00 - [56] Only Alliances supporting RA that don't have them in their neighbourhood
Himo Amasacia Minmatar Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:11:00 - [57] Edited by: Himo Amasacia on 24/08/2006 00:13:36 If it all was up to numbers in real life then the Soviets would have crushed Germany In WW2 in less than a year not the 3 it took them. Same with the Russians in Aphganistan. Werew eventually driven out by a far smaller force it could not defeat. And of vourse there is the Pass of Thermopolie (the famous 300 Spartans incitent)
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:22:00 - [58] it's like having 100 ronaldinho vs 1000 players of division 5 in switzerland (soccer?). Ronaldinho will win because he uses his top potential. (ok maybe not) Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:26:00 - [59] Originally by: Himo Amasacia Edited by: Himo Amasacia on 24/08/2006 00:13:36 And of vourse there is the Pass of Thermopolie (the famous 300 Spartans incitent) They all died !!!! Phovea , i aint trying to change ur mind or ur point of view i am explaining mine , ur free to think what u like although i see that since u used to be in the 5 and fought RA , did u enjoy the time of POS wars or u werent there ? Every person who was in the 5 at that time hated that war coz all their combined effeorts were foiled by borked game mechanics. Anyway thats my point of view and i am soo not gonan go arguing more about this issue coz it would just get reduced to flames etc. "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
HatePeace LoveWar Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:27:00 - [60] <whitty smack comment>
Nebba Kenezzer Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Murukan heh i was pretty spot on, only took 2 posts after mine for the smack to commense Pot kettle black, bro Nebba - The Vocal Majority
Pehova Mindtriq Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:43:00 - [62] I wasn't part of the POS war against RA so I don't know about it. But I was there for the fall of NBSI, PA and the blobbing of EC-P8R which showed that superior numbers can destroy the enemy. If it was RA that defended instead of named alliances the outcome would have been different because of their mentality and knowledge of the game mechanics. Niether me or you have smacktalked yet so I don't see why we can't keep discussing Celes vs Xelas
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:45:00 - [63] Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq Niether me or you have smacktalked yet so I don't see why we can't keep discussing Glad to hear that :) "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
pershphanie Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 01:03:00 - [64] Edited by: pershphanie on 24/08/2006 01:03:29 Ive thought RA would die several times already. Each time they come back and never seem to give up. Maybe they do use annoying tactics, but those tactics work so why shouldnt they? Winners adapt to difficult situations, losers make excuses. RA 4tw (these views are my own and not necessarily the views of my corp/alliance)
Darko1107 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.24 01:19:00 - [65] Tbh i think RA are probly having way more fun that LV and thier bandwagon. ------------------ Sig removed, please keep it under the 24,000 byte limit, if you have any questions please email [email protected] - Xorus
Constantinee Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 02:27:00 - [66] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Double G Cry more? LOL, not my problem anymore. I've given up on alliances that have to deal with sovereignty until they make it FUN. Right now it's mind-numbingly boring and can also be ridiculously frustrating. I'm paying CCP to provide an enjoyable pasttime, and POS-spam warfare isn't enjoyable in the least. For now, I'm just going to shoot other players and have fun doing it. /signed. This si where the real funs at wray dont wander off :P. Oh my bad off topic... uhhh.....yeah...RA...where to begin? Well i actually think wrayeth summed it all up for us in his previous posts thats the truth on what is really going on down there. Although i may not be there anymore myselfe it is still like that and will remain like that. For now everyone needs to put up with it and take the fact that the timezone difference is RA's ONLY attack. Want a Cheap sig?
The Praetor KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.08.24 02:40:00 - [67] It would appear RA has emerged from behind the Iron Curtain. Does this mean the Red Tide will wash us all away?
Audrea Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.08.24 02:43:00 - [68] There is nothing wrong with the tactics RA use to hold on and win! What are you expecting they would do against ten to ONE odds?! engage you in YOUR battlefield and loss? and go into the dust of history?! NO! they force you to play on their battlefield, and you (the coalition dont want to adapt and evolved along with their tactics. hence why you loose to them, and will keep doing so. There are tactics to fight this one hauler that comes and refuels the POS with proper stront levels, but I am not gonna explain it for you. start thinking with your grey matter, if you want to win To Red Alliance: Keep it up and stay proud of your game! you make us all the Russians proud of the way you hold, and dont take a single step back! Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists ra still being alive is a sad reflection of the current flawed game mechanics imo. My thoughs exactly , when 10000 players VS 800 and still they cant win due to game mechanics it just shows how it is flawd dont think there is any other game or RL situation that this huge contradiction can happen. On a side note POS wars in addition to lag will lead to a huge Queue of ppl quitign their alliances and corps , its already happening This is so fundmentally wrong! I will give out 2 examples, starting with the bad one and go to the better: 1) When the US fought the war in Korea and lost it - you had a superpower fighting SMALL, badly funded country - and they lost!! granted, they had support of their competitors (USSR), but still inferior organization, technology etc. Only thing they had plenty of is determination - thats something the coalition doesnt have. 2) Israel, 1973 the war of 'Yom Kipur' when suddenly and without warning, ALL the arab countries cought Israel by surprise, and practically overwhelmed it by military forces, tactics and technological equipement. Israel's lines of defence came close to coolapse on this one , and there are some theories that if the lines would have been breached, the nuclear missiles would have been launched. Anyway, despit being outnumbered (I guess back then Israel was what, 4 mil people?) against Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq+Iran (which sent troops as well or so) - Israel still managed to turn the tides and conquered the whole half island of Sinay or whatever its called, preparing to cross over to Cairo, as well as approached Damascus, and only stopped cause the UN (conviniently for the arabs) decided to intervene and stop the war when Israel started to crush the agressors. There you got examples of how not just outnumbered, but overwhelmed force but determined and highly motivated can defeat odds of ten to one. Any questions? ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.
Willis Drummond Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:02:00 - [69] Originally by: Audrea 1) When the US fought the war in Korea and lost it And here all this time I thought there was a South Korea. Man you can learn a lot of valuable information on this forum. Awesome Post# 753708
Erton	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:21:00 - [70] U know ... no one of my corp members in ours town don't know english, And when i print this forum and translate it into russhian in our pub when drinking a beer .... my friends were laughting like crazy cows. but sometime later one of them said: Max: Alex it makes me angry. I said: Why ? MAx: cause they blame us that we are cheater... Andry: Well m8s let's go home and kill one of them. I said: come on ... let's drink some beer. MAx: Yeah Alex right....after 2 or 3 beer we'll be avalable to use game mechanics.
Nebba Kenezzer Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:27:00 - [71] Originally by: Audrea hence why you loose to them, and will keep doing so. Do you wanna bet? Nebba - The Vocal Majority
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:28:00 - [72] Quit whining over POS. I am so goddamn sick of it. Its a fair system. People don't like it because its boring, but that doesn't make it broken. Their POS are worth as much as your POS. Their POS die just the same as yours. Coalition forces might have a numbers advantage, but half your pilots are busy carebearing in home regions. Try moving in permanent forces to actually LIVE in cache, and keep a strong permanent presence. What I see is a series of efforts by coalition forces to cap the station and have a token number of POS to hold sovereignty. Newsflash, controlling sovereignty means nothing. RA isn't beating you because they are good at POS warfare, they're beating you because you don't need stations or even POS to live somewhere. Taking the stations makes it harder to live there, but it doesn't force them to leave. Guess why? Heres a hint.. Where would they go? Every time coalition forces lose cache, they still have the comfort and safety of 8 other regions. That alone means they aren't willing to put in the proper effort. Five times now, I've counted, RA were on the brink of defeat and everyone simply stopped. They couldn't wait to stop and pat themselves on the back, instead of make sure they did it right. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't enjoy fighting RA either, but you people seriously need to stop blaming the game for your frustration. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Erton	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:29:00 - [73] Yeah ..winter s coming back .. less girls and beer ...more kills and fun. Ohh ..btw...my dream will come true . I'll make a huuuuuuge snowman with -V- and LV logos and shoot it with my T2 snowballs
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:39:00 - [74] Originally by: Audrea 2) Israel, 1973 the war of 'Yom Kipur' when suddenly and without warning, ALL the arab countries cought Israel by surprise, and practically overwhelmed it by military forces, tactics and technological equipement. Israel's lines of defence came close to coolapse on this one , and there are some theories that if the lines had been breached, the nuclear missiles would have been launched. Anyway, despite being outnumbered (I guess back then Israel was what, 4 mil people?) against Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq+Iran (which sent troops as well or so) - Israel still managed to turn the tides and conquered the whole half island of Sinay or whatever its called, preparing to cross over to Cairo, as well as approached Damascus, and only stopped cause the UN (conviniently for the arabs) decided to intervene and stop the war when Israel started to crush the agressors. Dunno where u get ur history from but u have soem severe mistakes in them: - Only Egyptian Soldiers breached the Barleaf line with sheer force and well planning the line collapsed and was over took by Egyptian armies. - Egytpain 2nd and 3rd army took over the other side of the canal and were sweaping across untill the cease fire was called by the US. - I dont think any coutnry through out history would give a warning before a surprise attack now would they ??? -Isreal was prepared to march to cairo ??? How can they march to cairo whiel their army has been defeated and the Egyptian airforce has taken out their fleet??? Anyway no more derailing sicne this will deffo also end up in a flame . My point is Overwhelming numbers will crush defenders either way and i still stick with it , u can agree or dissagree up to u . "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:49:00 - [75] Edited by: Wrayeth on 24/08/2006 03:54:08 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Quit whining over POS. I am so goddamn sick of it. Its a fair system. People don't like it because its boring, but that doesn't make it broken. You forgot to include something - something very important. It's this: EVE is a game and is played for entertainment. When something in a game is, as you said, "boring"--especially when that boring thing is part of a game that requires a monthly fee to play--then something is, indeed, broken. Again, the object of the game is to have fun, and a game feature that is not only not fun but, indeed, the very opposite of fun, is most definitely broken. So, would anyone like to step up and seriously call POS-spam warfare fun? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller? -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2006.08.24 03:58:00 - [76] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Quit whining over POS. I am so goddamn sick of it. Its a fair system. People don't like it because its boring, but that doesn't make it broken. Their POS are worth as much as your POS. Their POS die just the same as yours. Coalition forces might have a numbers advantage, but half your pilots are busy carebearing in home regions. Try moving in permanent forces to actually LIVE in cache, and keep a strong permanent presence. What I see is a series of efforts by coalition forces to cap the station and have a token number of POS to hold sovereignty. Newsflash, controlling sovereignty means nothing. RA isn't beating you because they are good at POS warfare, they're beating you because you don't need stations or even POS to live somewhere. Taking the stations makes it harder to live there, but it doesn't force them to leave. Guess why? Heres a hint.. Where would they go? Every time coalition forces lose cache, they still have the comfort and safety of 8 other regions. That alone means they aren't willing to put in the proper effort. Five times now, I've counted, RA were on the brink of defeat and everyone simply stopped. They couldn't wait to stop and pat themselves on the back, instead of make sure they did it right. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't enjoy fighting RA either, but you people seriously need to stop blaming the game for your frustration. Out of topic and wrong forum. You're making sense.
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:02:00 - [77] Oh yes, I forgot EVE was a game. How dare they make us do hard work?? HOW DARE THEY ADD REALISM. I call for a universal ban on mining, npcing, and hauling! Its all boring stuff, with zero interactivity and absolutely no player skill required! Making people do hard work to attain a goal in EVE is so clearly broken. Warfare should not make people bitter, it should fill their hearts with joy, and put that little extra spring in their step that says "I <3 EVE cos its FUN!". We should be able to steamroll the enemy with superior numbers and declare victory before they lose all willpower to fight. Cause if they do, its the game's fault they are frustrated. Its the game's fault the enemy JUST WONT LEAVE. WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US, CCP? /me runs away in tears! Where are you Cmd Woodlouse? I need a hug. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Papa Digger REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:05:00 - [78] Originally by: Wrayeth You forgot to include something - something very important. It's this: EVE is a game and is played for entertainment. When something in a game is, as you said, "boring"--especially when that boring thing is part of a game that requires a monthly fee to play--then something is, indeed, broken. Again, the object of the game is to have fun, and a game feature that is not only not fun but, indeed, the very opposite of fun, is most definitely broken. So, would anyone like to step up and seriously call POS-spam warfare fun? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller? Yeah, POS-spam warfare is a part of fun for me. Same as mining, same as gate camping. If any of these parts of the game help me to kill enemies.. it will be fun for me. ---- CEO.
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:14:00 - [79] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Oh yes, I forgot EVE was a game. How dare they make us do hard work?? HOW DARE THEY ADD REALISM. I call for a universal ban on mining, npcing, and hauling! Its all boring stuff, with zero interactivity and absolutely no player skill required! Making people do hard work to attain a goal in EVE is so clearly broken. Warfare should not make people bitter, it should fill their hearts with joy, and put that little extra spring in their step that says "I <3 EVE cos its FUN!". We should be able to steamroll the enemy with superior numbers and declare victory before they lose all willpower to fight. Cause if they do, its the game's fault they are frustrated. Its the game's fault the enemy JUST WONT LEAVE. WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US, CCP? /me runs away in tears! Where are you Cmd Woodlouse? I need a hug. My sarcasm detector just pinged. I'm not sure, but I think it might've been a false reading. You can never tell with that pesky thing. Alright, all snide remarks aside, "fun" and "challenging" don't have to be mutually exclusive. Yes, you should have to put forth effort to take and hold sovereignty, but you should be able to have fun while doing so. The present system does not support that, which is exactly why it's broken. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Audrea Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:16:00 - [80] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Audrea 2) Israel, 1973 the war of 'Yom Kipur' when suddenly and without warning, ALL the arab countries cought Israel by surprise, and practically overwhelmed it by military forces, tactics and technological equipement. Israel's lines of defence came close to coolapse on this one , and there are some theories that if the lines had been breached, the nuclear missiles would have been launched. Anyway, despite being outnumbered (I guess back then Israel was what, 4 mil people?) against Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq+Iran (which sent troops as well or so) - Israel still managed to turn the tides and conquered the whole half island of Sinay or whatever its called, preparing to cross over to Cairo, as well as approached Damascus, and only stopped cause the UN (conviniently for the arabs) decided to intervene and stop the war when Israel started to crush the agressors. Dunno where u get ur history from but u have soem severe mistakes in them: - Only Egyptian Soldiers breached the Barleaf line with sheer force and well planning the line collapsed and was over took by Egyptian armies. - Egytpain 2nd and 3rd army took over the other side of the canal and were sweaping across untill the cease fire was called by the US. - I dont think any coutnry through out history would give a warning before a surprise attack now would they ??? -Isreal was prepared to march to cairo ??? How can they march to cairo whiel their army has been defeated and the Egyptian airforce has taken out their fleet??? Anyway no more derailing sicne this will deffo also end up in a flame . My point is Overwhelming numbers will crush defenders either way and i still stick with it , u can agree or dissagree up to u . Ok I double checked, indeed the info was slightly wrong, but doesnt change the example of overwhelming forces being defeated. Yes Israeli forces werent ready to cross, but by the time the truce was signed, there was no real resistance left between Cairo and the Israeli lines. Yes indeed only Egyptian forces breached critical line, but still in the north the initial success of the Siryan army was not less risky. By the time of the cease fire, only the third army left and was cut off from their supplies in the middle of th island. But you right, its too much derailment, more than intended Furthermore, why should overwhleming numbers be able to wipe out very determined and skilled force even smaller one? I dont think it would make the game very interesting to the the at disadvantage. PS: I agree with DC, even though POS warfare is very boring and feels more like job than a game - fact is RA adapted to it, while the coalition couldnt, or doesnt want to. I dont know as I am not invovled first hand. ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.
Papa Digger REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:24:00 - [81] Someone play for fun, someone play to win. This is a difference between Coalition and RA. ---- CEO.
Dust Angel True Core	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:29:00 - [82] Originally by: Evengard Edited by: Evengard on 23/08/2006 21:28:13 Originally by: Dust Angel Well, considering that most russians are about to get iced in, and everyone else is going back to school/work, the winter expansion of RA is inevitable. Here you got very very wrong. Summer is vacation time and rest. Girls, sea, beer. Bad weather getting us closer to monitors... and killing... And as for other forum whiners, is you don't like the way we fight leave there regions for more safe Empire space. 0.0 are not for you. At least here. South alway be a war zone. thats what i said. With the onset of winter... you guys will be making that big comeback. Have a cold one on me _____________________________________ Stressed out with empire politics? Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:33:00 - [83] Originally by: Papa Digger Someone play for fun, someone play to win. This is a difference between Coalition and RA. Winning in EVE has no value if you're not having fun. You receive no real life benefit, otherwise. If you're not getting any value out of EVE, then you're basically throwing your $15 out the window every month. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:37:00 - [84] I dunno about that; surely your whining has some value? If I were RA (which I'm not), I'd be too busy laughing and touching myself to care about fifteen bux. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Audrea Widowmakers Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:39:00 - [85] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Papa Digger Someone play for fun, someone play to win. This is a difference between Coalition and RA. Winning in EVE has no value if you're not having fun. You receive no real life benefit, otherwise. If you're not getting any value out of EVE, then you're basically throwing your $15 out the window every month. Wrong, there are two sorts of fun: The first is like you understand it - playing for the fun, and the other is to win, and the fun is by the fact you overcome the challenges and won :) ------------------ Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:41:00 - [86] Originally by: DigitalCommunist I dunno about that; surely your whining has some value? If I were RA (which I'm not), I'd be too busy laughing and touching myself to care about fifteen bux. Look, man, I don't know what your problem is, but stfu. I try to keep my discourse civil unless I've been offered insult, yet I see that you're running your ass (mouth) without any justification whatsoever. I have never, until this moment, offered you insult, so I don't know where your BS is coming from. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 04:45:00 - [87] Originally by: Audrea Wrong, there are two sorts of fun: The first is like you understand it - playing for the fun, and the other is to win, and the fun is by the fact you overcome the challenges and won :) In that case, the individuals in question are playing for fun, and that's cool. Unfortunately, not everyone shares that same exact perspective on what is fun and what is not, and the current system basically screws over those who need the actual process to be enjoyable as well as the endgame (i.e. POS are essential to holding territory - you can't claim sovereignty without them). -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 05:02:00 - [88] You need to relax, if I was trying to offend you I could do a lot better. What I'm saying is not BS, its the same exact thing you'd be saying if you had an outside perspective. I really don't care who wins this "war", but lets recap what we've learned so far.. - the ends definitely justify the means - not everyone defines "fun" the same way as you Now if only you learned that player presence is more essential to holding territory than POS, you'd be on the road to true enlightenment. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Valkazm Amarr Cursed Spawn Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.08.24 05:13:00 - [89] Its simple really most of the time i dont see any RA when i do see them its one or two and sometimes a gang and thats usually beacuse i go out of my way fly very far and wide to find them .. And then boom POS up somewere now as a player im like so what can i do about it .. its a POS war we can shoot down loads of ships it wont matter at all There is still gonna be the alt that sits and watches a gate from 50 diffrent spots to warp to untill finally they can get through .. frankly most of the coalition get alot done with our time i mean i have a RL friend and his corp joined TnT to just be in the empire war and then they left .. were not talking about a well organized machine here were talking about players with immense patience and others jumping on the bandwagon to fight .. In empire .. its safe to say most coalition members cant really act in this POS war and were not really afflicted by it .. if we get the order we go but otherwise shooting down a cruiser here and there wont change much thats the thing .. There doing a good job on logistics and a few skirmishes here and there but its not really like there is a full fledged battle out there that you would might think .. Its not like we see RA everywere trying to counquer any coalition territory we see a POS go up and then several most people know how long it takes to anchor them .. And thats it simple and quite uneventful really not an actionpacked day when you logg on really ..
Bluestealth Minmatar Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.08.24 05:15:00 - [90] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Audrea Wrong, there are two sorts of fun: The first is like you understand it - playing for the fun, and the other is to win, and the fun is by the fact you overcome the challenges and won :) In that case, the individuals in question are playing for fun, and that's cool. Unfortunately, not everyone shares that same exact perspective on what is fun and what is not, and the current system basically screws over those who need the actual process to be enjoyable as well as the endgame (i.e. POS are essential to holding territory - you can't claim sovereignty without them). I hate to agree with DC but I do... war should not be over in a week just because you have superior numbers, war should be over when you have broken the otherside and forced them to leave. You want something that in game mechanics cannot offer you, to break RA once and for all. You simply cannot break people who do not want to give up, POS warefare just allows them to fight more effectively, for longer, It may need some tweaks but it isnt wrong. You want a completely one sided battle where you just beat RA over the head and they are gone and you can carebear and npc, that isn't eve and I will leave if it ever becomes that. You may have broken my corp/alliance will to hold GW, but we wern't as determined as RA, and to break us took -V-, -5-, and friends for a sustained period. We also had our share of infighting from recently combined alliance. It won't always be as easy, and we simply had been fighting too long to fend you off when you attacked. Its easier to fight someone when they are down, RA has vast resources, I exepct them to be there for a WHILE longer. Finally if you want to beat RA you need to recruit good members to fill the timezone gaps, and then become as ruthless as RA.(Of course if you can't pull a fleet together during their timezone they are going to take advantage of it, just as you would) BTW What do you plan to do once you kick RA out? NPC and mine for months? OMG that sounds like FUN. IMHO if you do win the war against RA, LV and KOS will be shooting soon after, then -V- will ally itself with whoever is winning. The smaller alliances in your coalition will simply get caught in the crossfire. Who knows what ASCN/AXE will do, might go ahead and start shooting you, it will actually be quite intresting if RA does loose in fact. More shooting, less allying. Now go ahead from this thread, you already surrended to RA.
Bluestealth Minmatar Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.08.24 05:25:00 - [91] Originally by: Valkazm frankly most of the coalition get alot done with our time i mean i have a RL friend and his corp joined TnT to just be in the empire war and then they left .. were not talking about a well organized machine here were talking about players with immense patience and others jumping on the bandwagon to fight .. In empire .. You know little of arrangments between TnT and RA, we didn't really do those wars completely out of the kindness of our hearts. I wasn't fighting for RA at all, the fact that we had war dec'd LV was great, I could care less about Ghost, KOS, etc... just random corps I didn't care about. I am not a member of RA, I am not a close friend of RA, atm I am pretty much a merc, but I am always willing to accept any war against M Corp./Shinra and company.
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 05:28:00 - [92] Originally by: DigitalCommunist You need to relax, if I was trying to offend you I could do a lot better. Apology accepted, if that's what it was. lol In all seriousness, I'm just a bit fed up with life in general atm, so my tolerance is a bit low. Quote: - the ends definitely justify the means - not everyone defines "fun" the same way as you Now if only you learned that player presence is more essential to holding territory than POS, you'd be on the road to true enlightenment. Yes, player presence is definitely more important. Unfortunately, real life intrudes on this, and people need to sleep, go to work, spend time with family, etc. For this reason, the coalition was not able to estabilish a 24 hour presence significant enough to destroy RA's spammed POS. It does not help that the game mechanics and lag work together to ensure that an alliance (or group of alliances) that cannot be strong during all timezones due to RL gets screwed over if someone spams POS on them. I give RA credit for being tenacious, but ultimately the coalition was defeated more by game mechanics and lag than anything else. I was one of the dread pilots sieging f2a, so I have firsthand experience with the problem. We could amass 20 dreads and ten carriers with a support fleet of several hundred people during peak hours, but during our off times, at most we could get five or six dreads, a carrier or two, and a support fleet of about thirty or forty people. Given the fact that RA could choose the time when the POS came out of reinforced, they always came out during a time when RA's capital and conventional forces significantly outnumbered both our available capital and available conventional fleets. This allowed them to recharge the POS shields and refuel pretty much with impunity; the few times the coalition forces tried to respond during this timezone, they were massacred due to being massively outgunned. Again, we were defeated by game mechanics. POS-spam warfare, among other things, is why I've given up on being part of a territory-holding alliance for the moment. I like the idea of POS and sovereignty, but the execution is flawed; I won't have anything to do with it until it's fixed. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Papa Digger REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 05:58:00 - [93] Originally by: Wrayeth I like the idea of POS and sovereignty, but the execution is flawed; I won't have anything to do with it until it's fixed. Yeah, I want fix too. I want that large towers cost 1 isk, and I can fuel it once per year and fuel will be 1 unit of tritanium. Couse it no fun for Wrayeth to keep POSes in online mode during several month. ---- CEO.
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 06:10:00 - [94] Edited by: Komolov on 24/08/2006 06:12:16 Yes, yes. /me votes for what Papa said with both hands. And also i petitioned CCP to issue to me brand new Astarte every week for FREE! Because earn money every time you loose it for new one IS BORING!!! It's game mecanics flaw!!! --------------------
lazyb22 M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 06:39:00 - [95] Now Im not one for posting alot on the forums but here is a great place to say this. RA have done a great job at doing what they have been doing. I have been at war with RA for over 1 1/2 years. Everyday almost fighting, chasing, running, and having alot of fun. I was never for one to smack in local but would defer to some good convos with RA in local. You know who you are. :P Anyway this is how I see it and like Ive said Ive had front row seats the whole movie. :P :P When the [5] decided to take cache way back when, thats when it all started. It was a difficult war then with them because of the pos style warfare then, when a small tower could claim sov and they were dirt cheap. RA did a fantastic job with their protection of cache for a long time. There was lot of battles then and lots of tactics on both sides that started flame wars that continue today. The seed was set then and it has grow into a fierce passion from both sides. Alot of respect was gained and alot of hate was built. When the [5] decided to pull out of cache the first time it was known by RA we were pulling out hoping that after the next patch the pos issue would be resolved and we could try again with better success. In the meantime LV was created, RA expanded. Talks between RA and LV took place. Their was almost a chance of a soft peace between LV and RA. Talks turned south and we told them we would find another way which we did. Later a few alliances decided they wanted thier own space which at the time was in RAs hands. Thats when the coalition began. LV and V already were positive and working somewhat together for the destruction of RA. KOS and CHIMP asked us to help them claim some space from RA. We agreed, and at this time we knew we didnt want to own the remaining space RA laid claim to we had what we needed already. LV went into the coalition with an intent to remove RA from 0.0 space, LV due to the previous meetings with RA had a bitter taste in our mouth and this coming after the seed had been planted from cache and had grown up. So of we go for the removal of RA from 0.0 space. The coalition did well. It took awhile for all of the organization to kinda come together from the 4 alliances but we came together and slowy took most of RAs regions. We made it all the way to one system, P7. As we took each region from RA each corp that lived in that region left RA. Some stayed and pulled back to cache but most left for empire as most of thier isk making was stopped, except for the complex work. Man are RA good at running complexes they are the masters of timing it at the spawns and getting it done and done fast it amazing how they do it. With that and the fat wallet they had already they were able to hold onto c-j. They did lose P7 though. Without the gap RA found they would have lost all regions. But they were able to put a GIANT foothold in c-j. They would carrier in poses and fuel. The coalition could do nothing about it. We camped C-J for 2 weeks. A few fights but not many and the fights only happened when RA had numbers. It was the way they had to fight they had lost almost all of thier alliance the ones left where the pvpers that could do magic with the syle of game play they use. MUCH REPECT for that guys nobody can ever say you dont have the will. RA was able to claim f2a as well but the coalition held strong and reclaimed it. C-J was RAs last foothold. RA planned an almost flawless tactical war using game mechanics and gorilla tactics. They were hard to catch and rarely fought toe to toe although it happened jsut not very often, and yes most of the time the were the victors because they choose when and where. The coalition set up a great plan of attack to finally hit c-j after a few previously failed attempts. With the help of ASCn we set out to complete our task of removing RA from 0.0 space. This was our plan from the start not to detroy RA but just to remove...
lazyb22 M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 06:56:00 - [96] them from 0.0. We hit it and we hit it hard it would have been an epic battle without the lag, and actually it was an epic battle because it was massive the amount of firepower that was on that battle field was very impressive from both sides. RA a couple carriers 50-60 T2 pure damage very skilled BSs Coalition 30+ Dreads 20+ carriers 50-60 T2 pure damage very skilled BSs Thats alot of firepower. With that many BSs in each fleet some could fire some could not but the ones that could fire would kill whatever was target and with the coalition at a hostile pos we were lsoing ships. In the end we lost a few Dreads and Carriers lots of BSs and many other ships. RA defended C-J with everything they had. In normal conditions if EVE was not so laggy it would have been a massive fight. The biggest I think in EVE so far with the amount of capital ships in play. In normal gameplay without lag you tell me who would have won the fight in the end looking at just the massive firepwer on the field. But with the way the game is today it is full effect for RA to defend thier alst system and they did a magnificant job of it. With all that going on in the meantime the coalition had tried many times to place good alliances in Cache because nobody in the coalition wanted it, we just didnt want RA to have it. We were not successful in getting anybody strong enough to compete with RA. RA has now taking most of Cache back without much of a fight. CONGRATS GUYS. In the end The Coalition decided to stop this push until the game mechanics can be fixed to support the massive fleet battles promised to us but never delivered. The war will continue. The POS war wont. Until we can either find a way to fight the lag or CCP fixes the game to support it. I have to say this war has been fun and very frustrating at the same time. Fighting the same guys over and over and over again it gets hard to figure out a new way to come at them. This hasnt been a problem with RA they have VERY SUCCESSFULLY learned to adapt. The coalition is still trying to catch up. :P When we catch up or game mechanics are changed we will continue. I have made a few friends in RA- MACTEP, RASATAN, Vashi (<-claims to not be in RA lol), you guys are great and I have to respect you guys as much as I hate you. :) ( I really dont hate you just a figure of speech that I think fits the situation). RA you have given me 1 1/2 years of absolutly intense fun and lots of frustrating nights. TYVM. CHEERS GUYS-Heres to the battle that will never stop and respect to those in RA that have earned mine. U know who you are. Lazyb22 Director Mcorp Proud member of LV. -----this is my disclaimer----- P.S. These views are mine not my alliance or my corps. I give them from my viewpoint and thru my eyes.
k1Lz Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 07:34:00 - [97] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Simple fact. The coalition had roughly 10:1 advantage in manpower over RA. The way that was employed ended up being more of a liability than the assest it should have been. More ppl in a system means MORE LAG, POS war and LAG creates impossible situation Tau Ceti know about this from D7 fight with D2 but hell lets flame the others. For all suckers who think the coalition is week that RA is so uber why donÆt u join them maybe this way we gone have some targets and not only 3:1 engagements or ganking squads making kills on the noobs from belts. If u donÆt like RA pls step inside alone lets make a tango i`m sure u guys like to dance.
Exus Caldari Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.24 07:38:00 - [98] I think that if the coalition would really kill RA, they'll just do it. the coalition needs targets, sometimes RA gain new territory, sometimes they lost some because the coalition bring some real tactics and heavy camp. the only thing about all that flame/lame is if the coalition decide to hit hard and kill/desesperate the RA members. they can. they just have to ask their pilot for more dedication. its not that hard. but anyway RA is very very strong in their minds. they dont give up. so even with a high occupation of RA territories and total removing of RA in the south. they'll come back again and again. the only way to remove them is to break the internet wire that comes from russia :p ______________________________ Guristas Powered
tookar Amarr Krookid	Posted - 2006.08.24 07:46:00 - [99] I agree the pos system is the same for everyone but it is almost impossible to take a deathstar pos defended by even a small enemy fleet . Add to this the fact that RA will leave one guy cloaked in a system who will then phone his mates up at 4am or 5am to jump in and ss and logoff and you have unconquerable space . The defence for RA would not have been so easy if they held more space , the fact that it was only 1-2 systems meant that the majority of RA players logged 1 of their sniping bs in one of those systems and simply logged in to attack any attacking capital fleet . Kudos to RA for their "logistics" (using carrier bug to spam large posses in c-j just before/after dt) they did a good job since the carrier bug was fixed . The simple fact is that the coalition could have taken the RA systems but it wasnt worth the cost in both time (weeks and weeks of camping for 18 large pos) and the fact that you are garuanteed to lose cap ships even if only 30 sniping bs warp in on your cap fleet at the pos . Lag plus overpowered pos are to blame mostly not RA tactics although they are known to use every borderline explouit in the game which i myself consider lame . I have personally been caught in RA login traps and seen them log a sniping bs fleet in a dictor bubble before uncloaking when our support fleet caught them napping so thats my opinion . I think we need to have pos guns which have to be manually activated (still fire at a random tyarget) and re-activated every 2 minutes or so . At least this would make the lagfest at a pos a more level playing field as not being able to activate the rep on your dread is a damn sad way to lose a cap ship . All in all RA taking the stations there will be good for the whole area maybe now everyone can enjoy some good fights and stay away from pos warfare and as i say it was impressive that they took the stations but not how they did it .
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:17:00 - [100] Originally by: k1Lz For all suckers who think the coalition is week that RA is so uber why donÆt u join them maybe this way we gone have some targets and not only 3:1 engagements or ganking squads making kills on the noobs from belts. If u donÆt like RA pls step inside alone lets make a tango i`m sure u guys like to dance. OMG, the "COME WE ARE UBER I SWEAR TO GOD WE WON'T RUN!!!1111" Card. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Zanarkand Gallente Enterprise Estonia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:18:00 - [101] Wasn't RA was the 3rd largest alliance ingame. 2,4k+ members. They had a lot of regions. The RA war was very "unfair" too during the beginnning, wasn't it? They had a lot of "friendlies" in those regions. LV & co made new allies and RA shrinked (allies leaving, important corps leaving etcetc) down to 800 members. Hmmm, why can't RA have allies? Maybe if an alliance starts loosing a war and in progress loses a lot of it members (gets "outblobbed"). The remaining members should revert to gamemechanics and alarmclocks, poswar the whole place etcetc. Then make forumsposts about the opponents being so unfair(blobbing 10:1), keep mentioning how dedicated and good you are and on top of that get respect from EVE community. Sounds like a plan.
Velios M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:20:00 - [102] I'll say it again. Since ERA pulled out of Cache, RA have been allowed to retake it with no struggle. A stalemate has been reached, we cannot take their last system no matter how many people we throw at it, so if they have one station there is little point in us continually fighting to hold Cache from them, at great expense / no benefit to ourselves. (the isk required to hold these systems which we do not populate is better spent elsewhere) RA will take all of Cache, we won't even try to stop them. They then need to make up their minds whether they are happy with what they have, or if they want more and are prepared to fight for it on our terms. Also, thanks for your post above lazyb22, a good account of the situation and my feelings for RA right now. To RA: Take Cache, but remember that your actions from this day will determine if we (the coalition) one day will again attempt to take it back from you when conditions are right. If however there can be mutual respect then the future can be different to the one we have known for the last 1.5 years. M.Corp BPC Packages
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:28:00 - [103] Edited by: Komolov on 24/08/2006 08:31:45 Excellent post lazyb. Only wrong assumption here - RA ppl stopped raising iskies in 0.0 after loosing stations. They didn't. Zanarkand we had 1600 members and a lot of friendly miners. Miners ran wherever they can mine or turned into hardcore pvp and joined RA (good portion of Reunion were miners in Scalding Pass), French wing went up north and English wing slowly left because of many issues (lack of coordination, lack of fun for them, wish to join stronger party). So we have 800 members left and it is better for alliance to have lower numbers who want to fight and to win than to have 2000+ whiners. --------------------
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:31:00 - [104] Edited by: Komolov on 24/08/2006 08:31:11 double --------------------
Burzon PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:39:00 - [105] Originally by: Komolov Edited by: Komolov on 24/08/2006 08:31:11 double All i can say is: Yo mom !!!! and .... Komolov, long time no see Cheers Burzon CEO PAX Interstellar Proud Member of -V-
PriceCheckMax	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:41:00 - [106] Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 24/08/2006 08:41:30
Zanarkand Gallente Enterprise Estonia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:42:00 - [107] Edited by: Zanarkand on 24/08/2006 08:42:38 Originally by: Komolov Edited by: Komolov on 24/08/2006 08:31:45 Excellent post lazyb. Only wrong assumption here - RA ppl stopped raising iskies in 0.0 after loosing stations. They didn't. Zanarkand we had 1600 members and a lot of friendly miners. Miners ran wherever they can mine or turned into hardcore pvp and joined RA (good portion of Reunion were miners in Scalding Pass), French wing went up north and English wing slowly left because of many issues (lack of coordination, lack of fun for them, wish to join stronger party). So we have 800 members left and it is better for alliance to have lower numbers who want to fight and to win than to have 2000+ whiners. But why do I keep hearing the 10000:800 argument all over again? We have a lot of people in alliances who don't care about PvP/RA either. You do better with 800 dedicated members? Fine, that's your tactic, but having forumwars about the unfair cloalition who outblob 10:1 and whining about it makes RA cool... I guess.
Nyssa Dakalsai Cosmic Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:43:00 - [108] Go Go RA! <3
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:45:00 - [109] Edited by: Komolov on 24/08/2006 08:45:32 Originally by: Burzon Komolov, long time no see Burzon Good to hear that. This means you haven't noticed me in local 28Y when i was seeking some V to kill :) --------------------
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:54:00 - [110] Originally by: Zanarkand But why do I keep hearing the 10000:800 argument all over again? That was initialy answer to the question why RA is not using conventional fleet warfare. And it is still valid point. If neccessary coalition is able to field 500+ units of cannon fodder anytime. Also i suppose you've heard "rotation" term. So coalition can perform rotation of troops deployed against RA on regular basis and give the rest to coming from frontlines. While we can not replace pilots with the fresh ones. And this can create many long-term effects on both sides. --------------------
Mr Happ Gallente Hellbound Saints	Posted - 2006.08.24 08:55:00 - [111] Originally by: Major Stormer After viewing the latest (wonderful) eve online alliances map, i see red alliance have taken back a region. what does this mean for the area itself? Clearly the efforts to remove red alliance is failing.....what are the latest reports from the battlefield? The point is moot, RA roll around in pos warfare, off the grid safe spots and well lets face it, they wont fight you unless they gank/snipe or outnumber you. There very hard to kill, simply because they wont fight and they sneak around with instas refuelling possess. Kinda well, lame tbh, but hell, we all play differ dont we?
Darkrydar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 09:01:00 - [112] Originally by: Audrea 1) When the US fought the war in Korea and lost it - you had a superpower fighting SMALL, badly funded country - and they lost!! granted, they had support of their competitors (USSR), but still inferior organization, technology etc. Only thing they had plenty of is determination - thats something the coalition doesnt have. You're just an idiot tbh. Plus, since you clearly know nothing about history you should refrain from trying (poorly) to apply it to a game.
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 09:14:00 - [113] Originally by: Mr Happ they wont fight you unless they gank/snipe or outnumber you. There very hard to kill, simply because they wont fight and they sneak around with instas refuelling possess. Kinda well, lame tbh, but hell, we all play differ dont we? Accidentally some RA were catched offguard by mighty coalition. http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=24 http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=21 http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=15 http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=19 http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=11 --------------------
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.24 09:36:00 - [114] Originally by: Komolov Originally by: Mr Happ they wont fight you unless they gank/snipe or outnumber you. There very hard to kill, simply because they wont fight and they sneak around with instas refuelling possess. Kinda well, lame tbh, but hell, we all play differ dont we? Accidentally some RA were catched offguard by mighty coalition. http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=24 http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=21 http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=15 http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=19 http://killboard.red-alliance.info/?op=fleet&name=11 bye bye mr happ. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Shadoo The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.08.24 09:40:00 - [115] It's been a great ride for the past year, that's for sure. RA have played the game, using every trick in the game to their advantage. No point in complaining about the tricks, game allows them and you've mastered them. The tactics learned in the battlefield here in order to get a kill, will surely get everyone involved kills anywhere they go -- you wouldn't believe how slippery some of these guys are . There's a sense of great pleasure when you see Atlus or RaSatan pop. Apart from few individuals, fights are always smack free (wish I could say same about our side) -- even friendly when Komolov & Star Hunter are around. I'm sure we'll have plenty more fights, so keep having fun the way you want to guys. GF so far!
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 09:58:00 - [116] Edited by: Darcuese on 24/08/2006 10:00:59 Motivation is the key of the puzzle. Nuff said Edit: not determination, motivation -------------------------------------------- Im free for advertising atm
Beyond Horizon Solar Dragons Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 10:01:00 - [117] Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 24/08/2006 10:01:19 Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: ashley mantis cheap tactics? saying that while having more than 10:1 ratio at base numbers, that my friend is cheap tactics. what isnt cheap tactics is a vastly outnumbered alliance using game mechanics to fend off all you, while taking regions from you, thats not cheap, thats skill. That's not skill - anyone can do what RA's doing if they're strong during a timezone when their opponent is weak. That's the problem, and one of the (many) reasons POS warfare sucks. As for cheap tactics, have you ever fought RA? No? Well, let me mention a few things. * Log on traps. * Warp core stabs (lots of them). * Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. I could mention quite a few more, but I can't be bothered to type out a long post today. Copied into my bio :D priceless - BH
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 10:06:00 - [118] Originally by: Wrayeth Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. Haha. /me guilty --------------------
cflux Caldari FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 10:27:00 - [119] Edited by: cflux on 24/08/2006 10:28:48 Originally by: Komolov Originally by: Wrayeth Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. Haha. /me guilty <3 Komolov. Every day you guys keep clearing coalition out of these people, we grow stronger. It is indeed sad that some people don't see unknown in local as opportunity to bait in space and pick a fight - or are unable to move few systems if they are in dire need of isk. Every alliance has/had those people, so does RA. I just want to make a remark of people claiming in this thread that Coalition blows or such, based on fact we had to drop cache back to RA. You guys have no idea how fierce and cunning RA is as opponent, they adapt fast and you have to constantly think new ways of baiting them to fight. We do, we still took several regions from them and have fought em russian horde for over a year. Even if we have manpower to cycle pilots at front, it dosn't mean we are willing to pay billions to uphold a region we ourself don't have use for. The way POS warfare is designed does not allow you to hold regions that are not providing you with income, it just costs too much. And I'm having fun, my friends are having fun, isn't that the bottom line? If I want turkey shoot, I join or form a gang and fly with it out of coalition space, far from RA who are the hard opponents. On the other hand, If I want to test myself if I have gotten any better as a player or as a gangleader I head down to C-J and poke RA a bit. --
Komolov Gallente REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 11:05:00 - [120] Edited by: Komolov on 24/08/2006 11:06:17 Originally by: cflux <3 Komolov. Every day you guys keep clearing coalition out of these people And i bet you all were happy when those carebears like amstaffuuu and friends left you. Can i return favor by mentioning similar help from coalition to RA. :) --------------------
k1Lz Delta team Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 12:01:00 - [121] Originally by: Omeega Originally by: k1Lz For all suckers who think the coalition is week that RA is so uber why donÆt u join them maybe this way we gone have some targets and not only 3:1 engagements or ganking squads making kills on the noobs from belts. If u donÆt like RA pls step inside alone lets make a tango i`m sure u guys like to dance. OMG, the "COME WE ARE UBER I SWEAR TO GOD WE WON'T RUN!!1111" Card. I think that for some one who made the last kill all most 2 moths ago (and from the beginning of the year a total of 4 confirm kills) u should STFU, and let speech those from u`r corp who realy know what PVP is, or u are just the forum alt of a uber RAT pvper.
Lord Wimbishi Caldari Wolven Elite Guard Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.24 12:24:00 - [122] Originally by: Audrea 1) When the US fought the war in Korea and lost it - you had a superpower fighting SMALL, badly funded country - and they lost!! granted, they had support of their competitors (USSR), but still inferior organization, technology etc. Only thing they had plenty of is determination - thats something the coalition doesnt have. Any questions? Well you are wrong. That conflict was not lost for one. Two the North Koreans were getting stomped cleanly. The Chinese launched 250,000 men across the north part of Korea and almost annhilated the american forces in the surprise attack around Christmas and drove them back to the corner of South Korea and which were later was pushed back yet again back up to the DMZ where a unconditional cease fire has been held till this day. It has very little to do with North Koreans defending their turf as it was 'big brother' who didn't like how close we was getting to annhilating 'little brother' and getting close to their border. Get your facts straight. "Protecting the Ignorant from the immoral scum of the galaxy"
Basilii Minmatar Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.24 12:26:00 - [123] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=335629 k1lz i think you are the one who need to stfu. the guy got more kills then you in his eve carier then you would ever do .
Wrok Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 12:30:00 - [124] Originally by: Evengard Edited by: Evengard on 23/08/2006 21:28:13 Originally by: Dust Angel Well, considering that most russians are about to get iced in, and everyone else is going back to school/work, the winter expansion of RA is inevitable. Here you got very very wrong. Summer is vacation time and rest. Girls, sea, beer. Bad weather getting us closer to monitors... and killing... And as for other forum whiners, is you don't like the way we fight leave there regions for more safe Empire space. 0.0 are not for you. At least here. South alway be a war zone. As my friend here said 0.0 is not for many alliences...and hes right but then again it all comes down to applying your self and well tbh the REDS have done a great job doing this sooo...hate to say it but much respect to the reds for out witting and outlastting your 10,000 pilot counter part ;P
Lord Wimbishi Caldari Wolven Elite Guard Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.24 12:49:00 - [125] Originally by: Komolov Edited by: Komolov on 24/08/2006 08:31:45 Excellent post lazyb. Only wrong assumption here - RA ppl stopped raising iskies in 0.0 after loosing stations. They didn't. Zanarkand we had 1600 members and a lot of friendly miners. Miners ran wherever they can mine or turned into hardcore pvp and joined RA (good portion of Reunion were miners in Scalding Pass), French wing went up north and English wing slowly left because of many issues (lack of coordination, lack of fun for them, wish to join stronger party). So we have 800 members left and it is better for alliance to have lower numbers who want to fight and to win than to have 2000+ whiners. Well I have to agree with Komolov here. A trimmed and stronger frame is more likely to achieve more then a bloated excessive one. RA has trimmed down much like some older alliances have and for good reason to. So yes they did 'evol' in a bit which has helped. The main issue and topic is RA is surviving, no matter how it is happening. Any alliance would just be glad to survive no matter how it happens. It is only natural. If the strong instinct in wanting to survive and the willpower put behind it to succeed only boasts RA fighters deterimination at this point. Doggied opponents can be found anywhere who will do anything to succeed or survive. I am sure if the situations was reversed in manner regards as it was long ago; a smaller very determined and experianced organization can stand standfast against a larger one. LV's and friends initial resistance to RA's aggression in the very first place formalutes this very thing in my mind. As far as game play mechanics go, things will change in time I am sure as most of the vets in the game have seen in this game so far, countless nerfs, changes and ever evolving mechanics changed one way or another to make the game more enjoyable for EVERYONE even if it does nerf something very well liked by the veteran community. The war will continue most likely and give area to test newbs and grow new experiances for those that are wishing for a challenge. At this time the challenging people to fight here in the south east are RA since they are experianced at what they do. I am sure the Coalition and many other older alliances have their 'true' veteran cores but all to often those cores get diluted with new personnel but inexperianced to the game play the veterans are use to or simply uninterested in how things go one due to the political situations that constantly arise in 0.0 space. Anyways for better or worse this is the world of EVE as we know it for now, I am confident it will continue to evolve and change and we ALL have got to adapt to it no matter if we like it or not. RA and others like them show the propensity to adapt to these changes very quickly in order to keep the edge. That is only smart as a dead man is still a dead man no matter if the dude that killed him shot him in the back while he was sleeping. He can't complain anymore :/. "Protecting the Ignorant from the immoral scum of the galaxy"
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.24 12:57:00 - [126] Before this gets locked for trolling: I imagine RA are simply waiting for the 8 new regions to open. Putting an outpost in the furthest-right region would be a bonus, as the entire region currently has one entry point. They'll be out there all alone, able to NPC and Mine their little hearts out. What I do the rest of the time.
dabster Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.24 13:14:00 - [127] This thread pwns, RA ftw. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
PhannJodoxis Minmatar H.Y.D.R.A.	Posted - 2006.08.24 13:27:00 - [128] Originally by: Vily The interesting thing, i think, is that RA support is growing while coalition support continues to dwindle or become bored. I have no doubt that the coalition will find lots of new alliances to take up the role of the old ones, but RA in general is actually winning the hearts and minds of the people. They fight outnumbered, continually and they dont give up. And everyone has to respect that. I dont doubt that they have done their fair share of "exploiting" etc. but in general when your fighting a big bully, you do what it takes. RA is doing what it takes to survive. T The coalition wishes more than anything else to crush RA, but all that would mean would be internal strife and fighting within 2 months. RA will likely focus on continuing their hold of their current stronghold and maybe look to expand to one other system, but as long as the coalition continues to loom and press they will be hardpressed to do anything against them offensively. Support for RA is definately growing. Lots of people are watching this and saying wow.. these RA guys are different. It doesnt matter how RA uses game mechanics to survive. What matters is the fact that they have a fairly decent sized core that does not quit, they are smart, more skilled and experienced in EVE warfare than most, and exceedingly determined. Anyone who has experience being part of an alliance (in my case SPARTA) that got into a war, things didnt look good after a short while, and 90% of the people lacked the will to really fight or wanted to jump ship to greener pastures or were willing to do anything just to go back to living in peace mining and ratting.. respects RA for what they have done. In most normal situations many people stay as long as they think they may still be on the winning side, but when it appears like a losing situation the alliance crumbles all that much faster because people run away from the fight in expanding numbers like falling dominos. Anyways, impressive RA ______________________________________________
Graalum Foundation Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.24 13:30:00 - [129] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Himo Amasacia Edited by: Himo Amasacia on 24/08/2006 00:13:36 And of vourse there is the Pass of Thermopolie (the famous 300 Spartans incitent) They all died !!!! Phovea , i aint trying to change ur mind or ur point of view i am explaining mine , ur free to think what u like although i see that since u used to be in the 5 and fought RA , did u enjoy the time of POS wars or u werent there ? Every person who was in the 5 at that time hated that war coz all their combined effeorts were foiled by borked game mechanics. Anyway thats my point of view and i am soo not gonan go arguing more about this issue coz it would just get reduced to flames etc. There were actually 3 survivors.
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.24 13:30:00 - [130] Originally by: k1Lz Originally by: Omeega Originally by: k1Lz For all suckers who think the coalition is week that RA is so uber why donÆt u join them maybe this way we gone have some targets and not only 3:1 engagements or ganking squads making kills on the noobs from belts. If u donÆt like RA pls step inside alone lets make a tango i`m sure u guys like to dance. OMG, the "COME WE ARE UBER I SWEAR TO GOD WE WON'T RUN!!1111" Card. I think that for some one who made the last kill all most 2 moths ago (and from the beginning of the year a total of 4 confirm kills) u should STFU, and let speech those from u`r corp who realy know what PVP is, or u are just the forum alt of a uber RAT pvper. Lol. you are just plain stupid. I only fight a few times with omeega. We learnt to get some alt characters who tend to be less targeted in fleetbattles... Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 13:45:00 - [131] Edited by: Darcuese on 24/08/2006 13:46:39 Originally by: Omeega I only fight a few times with omeega. We learnt to get some alt characters who tend to be less targeted in fleetbattles... Only few brave idiots playing other way around.. /emote look him self in the mirror and cry But still, this character wasnt created only to hide and spam -------------------------------------------- Space available for advertising atm
Lord Wimbishi Caldari Wolven Elite Guard Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.24 13:52:00 - [132] Originally by: Graalum There were actually 3 survivors. No actually they all died http://www.geocities.com/the_temple_of_ares/300spartans.html http://www.usgennet.org/usa/topic/preservation/geo/europe/page9.htm "Protecting the Ignorant from the immoral scum of the galaxy"
Himo Amasacia Minmatar Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.08.24 15:03:00 - [133] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Himo Amasacia Edited by: Himo Amasacia on 24/08/2006 00:13:36 And of vourse there is the Pass of Thermopolie (the famous 300 Spartans incitent) They all died !!!! Well, yeah, they did, but they killed 3 to 30 times their number in Persians (depending on who you read) which is why its so celebrated. But yeah they did die. People almost forget that fact
Vashi Dokumentu The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2006.08.24 15:27:00 - [134] To LazyB(1/-\TC\|-\|) heya m8, nice post, but some things is missing, and it doesnt matter cuz it`s ur way of view. Only 1 thing is matter i`m not RA, i`m WITH RA........ ;-))) we`ll see your arse in space
CrestoftheStars The Greater Goon	Posted - 2006.08.24 15:28:00 - [135] Originally by: Wrayeth My sarcasm detector just pinged. I'm not sure, but I think it might've been a false reading. You can never tell with that pesky thing. Alright, all snide remarks aside, "fun" and "challenging" don't have to be mutually exclusive. Yes, you should have to put forth effort to take and hold sovereignty, but you should be able to have fun while doing so. The present system does not support that, which is exactly why it's broken. Just be glad his post wasnt one of a 4-part series.
Dr CapitalShip Caldari Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:04:00 - [136] Originally by: Himo Amasacia Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Himo Amasacia Edited by: Himo Amasacia on 24/08/2006 00:13:36 And of vourse there is the Pass of Thermopolie (the famous 300 Spartans incitent) They all died !!!! Well, yeah, they did, but they killed 3 to 30 times their number in Persians (depending on who you read) which is why its so celebrated. But yeah they did die. People almost forget that fact /me imagines the battle. 100,000 Persians line up ready to charge. For some reason, all 100,000 Persians are stuck on the battlefield, unable to move.... 300 Spartans fire a spear each then log off. They log back in again, copy 200 bookmarks each, dump them on the battlefield. 999,700 Persians line up...
Omeega Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:31:00 - [137] Hehe well now the new technics will be. aAa miner (?) : OMG! ASCN is camping HED-GP with 30 ships. aAa exploit center : "They won't engage if we jump they'll jump in keberz. (ALL LIES!!!111)" aAa exploit center : "Guys, blob Keberz with 100 fighters in shuttle please" aAa exploit center : "Get a cyno ready for HED-GP. Send the big guys" ASCN logoffski-word-spammer-commander : "Guys, jump into Keberz fast! Save your souls you fools!!!" Then comes the CCP magic CCP to random ASCN player "We apologise but your cant jump out of HED-GP right now, you've been placed #20 in jump queue, and WE DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT YOUR NEW HAC BIOTCH!" « Ignis Infernalis, RAT. miner. Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...
lazyb22 M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:45:00 - [138] Originally by: Vashi Dokumentu To LazyB(1/-\TC\|-\|) heya m8, nice post, but some things is missing, and it doesnt matter cuz it`s ur way of view. Only 1 thing is matter i`m not RA, i`m WITH RA........ ;-))) we`ll see your arse in space Plz fill in the holes Vashi. :) but its always nice to see you in space. :) Lazyb22
lazyb22 M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:50:00 - [139] Originally by: Omeega We learnt to get some alt characters who tend to be less targeted in fleetbattles... I need to do that It really sucks to be priamry ALL THE TIME. Now I know how Warrages felt. Lazyb22
Mc Leech The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2006.08.24 17:47:00 - [140] Originally by: lazyb22 Originally by: Vashi Dokumentu we`ll see your arse in space Plz fill in the holes Vashi. :) Lazyb22 They say love and hate go hand in hand but this is just wrong...
lazyb22 M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 17:49:00 - [141] Edited by: lazyb22 on 24/08/2006 17:49:47 Originally by: Mc Leech Originally by: lazyb22 Originally by: Vashi Dokumentu we`ll see your arse in space Plz fill in the holes Vashi. :) Lazyb22 They say love and hate go hand in hand but this is just wrong... ROFL I guess that does look bad!!! Now get your mind outta the gutter you and back on the battle field.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 18:24:00 - [142] Originally by: Erton U know ... no one of my corp members in ours town don't know english, And when i print this forum and translate it into russhian in our pub when drinking a beer .... my friends were laughting like crazy cows. but sometime later one of them said: Max: Alex it makes me angry. I said: Why ? MAx: cause they blame us that we are cheater... Andry: Well m8s let's go home and kill one of them. I said: come on ... let's drink some beer. MAx: Yeah Alex right....after 2 or 3 beer we'll be avalable to use game mechanics. The way ur trying to rub the issue in the face of ppl just shows how mature u r !! How old are u btw? the way u talk is just exactly the same as a 10 year old brat running around poking his nose infrotn of ppl to annoy them . PS: Ur post should be deleted also , no corp or allaince tag Mr wizard !!! "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.08.24 18:44:00 - [143] Originally by: Wrayeth * Leaving a cloaked covert in system while the pilot is AFK to prevent NPCers and miners from making ISK. I could mention quite a few more, but I can't be bothered to type out a long post today. I would have to say though that this tactic is not cheap it's very smart as it prevents their enemies from making isk. What is lame is crying about not being able to npc without danger. If you want to npc go out from the pos and see if that pilot really is afk In rust we trust!!!
Trembler Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:09:00 - [144] Originally by: lazyb22 Edited by: lazyb22 on 24/08/2006 07:06:24 CHEERS GUYS-Heres to the battle that will never stop and respect to those in RA that have earned mine. U know who you are. I will drink to that.
Core Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:09:00 - [145] Problem with POS atm is the cost of it, its simply way too cheap A ultra large deathstar POS costs around 2billion with fuel around 100mil... thats pocket change compared to the amount of money needed for dreads to come and kill them.. a well fitted dread costs more than a entire POS..
Ilmonstre Minmatar 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:10:00 - [146] Originally by: Core Problem with POS atm is the cost of it, its simply way too cheap A ultra large deathstar POS costs around 2billion with fuel around 100mil... thats pocket change compared to the amount of money needed for dreads to come and kill them.. a well fitted dread costs more than a entire POS.. too true
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:22:00 - [147] Originally by: Dr CapitalShip Originally by: Himo Amasacia Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Originally by: Himo Amasacia Edited by: Himo Amasacia on 24/08/2006 00:13:36 And of vourse there is the Pass of Thermopolie (the famous 300 Spartans incitent) They all died !!!! Well, yeah, they did, but they killed 3 to 30 times their number in Persians (depending on who you read) which is why its so celebrated. But yeah they did die. People almost forget that fact /me imagines the battle. 100,000 Persians line up ready to charge. For some reason, all 100,000 Persians are stuck on the battlefield, unable to move.... 300 Spartans fire a spear each then log off. They log back in again, copy 200 bookmarks each, dump them on the battlefield. 999,700 Persians line up... Well if the Persians are too stupid to realize their tactics aren't working and keep lining up for the spartans to kill more power to the spartans. And just cause you ascn boys get your asses whupped in every engagement against a competant opponent doesn't mean you have to be so sore about it In rust we trust!!!
Core Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.24 20:32:00 - [148] I dont understand why sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many people think they are all "pro" at understanding the situation that is going on Until you face RA, you have no idea the level of ***ness they bring to the battlefield. I do not care what your opinion is unless you fight RA on a regular basis. and for you Murukan you 6 month old noob, why dont you stay out of threads that you have no idea whats going on besides reading other "forum warrior's" posts and go mine some omber OR post with your main
Darkrydar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 21:10:00 - [149] Originally by: Core I dont understand why sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many people think they are all "pro" at understanding the situation that is going on Until you face RA, you have no idea the level of ***ness they bring to the battlefield. I do not care what your opinion is unless you fight RA on a regular basis. and for you Murukan you 6 month old noob, why dont you stay out of threads that you have no idea whats going on besides reading other "forum warrior's" posts and go mine some omber OR post with your main I totaly agree with you. It's been 9+ months since I had to deal with them but I still remember how lame they play the game. Its funny how bandwagons work isnt it? Now all the RA bandwagoneers are out in force.
Mc Leech The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:21:00 - [150] "Its funny how bandwagons work isnt it? Now all the RA bandwagoneers are out in force." Yes very funny, a guy leaves shinra for BOB than makes posts about how funny bandwagons are, uh the irony its simply hilarious.
Swift Wind Caldari 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:22:00 - [151] Originally by: Darkrydar Originally by: Core I dont understand why sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many people think they are all "pro" at understanding the situation that is going on Until you face RA, you have no idea the level of **ness they bring to the battlefield. I do not care what your opinion is unless you fight RA on a regular basis. and for you Murukan you 6 month old noob, why dont you stay out of threads that you have no idea whats going on besides reading other "forum warrior's" posts and go mine some omber OR post with your main I totaly agree with you. It's been 9+ months since I had to deal with them but I still remember how lame they play the game. Its funny how bandwagons work isnt it? Now all the RA bandwagoneers are out in force. Knowing very little about this situation, this is all I have to say: While everytime I come across or am downed by an RA member they are quite polite and respectful, I have yet to have a member gloat over downing my shuttle :) This versus my expirences with "members" of the coalition, who tend (not all mind you) to be very rude, insist on showing how uber they are, and seem to impress the hell out of themselves by downing shuttles and indy's. For that and that reason alone, I am happy to see RA resisting them.... Thanks for your time.. "...because it's there, is reason enough..."*
Darkrydar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:23:00 - [152] Originally by: Mc Leech "Its funny how bandwagons work isnt it? Now all the RA bandwagoneers are out in force." Yes very funny, a guy leaves shinra for BOB than makes posts about how funny bandwagons are, uh the irony its simply hilarious. FUNNY ISNT IT? Maybe you could get yourself educated bit? However, I left Shinra for ATUK so I could stay up north and kill PA/NBIS/FE, not go back south and shoot lamers. Seems I made the right choice.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:31:00 - [153] Originally by: Mc Leech "Its funny how bandwagons work isnt it? Now all the RA bandwagoneers are out in force." Yes very funny, a guy leaves shinra for BOB than makes posts about how funny bandwagons are, uh the irony its simply hilarious. Changing corps is bandwagoning these days ??? Mmmkayyyy in that case 99% of eve players are filthy bandwagoneers then "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"

Imaran Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:32:00 - [154] oooooooo someone put teh fire out Locked for flaming, and trolling. Please refrain from using the forums to take out your ingame anger. Sexeh CRC Website [email protected] Public Service Announcement : Tech II Boobies now in stock at your local Biomass Dealer! Offical Keeper of the key to Suvetar's Chastity Belt


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