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Hebus Zanheros
Gallente
Elegance
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:17:00 -
[31]
No risks = no Fun
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Spike Larosse
Occassus Republica
Process of Elimination
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:18:00 -
[32]
Well if you make up figures like that it's easy to build up an argument around it.
So please actually check some facts before going on a spree out on the forums.
Already the 10 largest alliances, all involved in 0.0 space activity and thus basically requiring their members to spend time in 0.0, have a total of almost 22k members. There goes the 10%. So the rest never even leave for 0.4 space? lol.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:19:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Hebus Zanheros
No risks = no Fun
well wanna be pirates can use the new (old) noob corp invite in empire have 2 other toons at war invite unsuspecting carebear into gang then invite 2 at war toons into the gang - isnta gank = great fun to be had by all
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Valkazm
Amarr
Cursed Spawn
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:21:00 -
[34]
what an idiotic idea first lets get through the things you havent even thought about Mercs the proffesion itself would seize to exist why would someone pay them if they cant inflict any damage .. to isk at all ..
POS warfare will be a walk in the park as long as you have the numbers just push up new players to attack it oh i died oh well ill be there in a few jumps guys keep attacking it ..
Awww i lost my carrier do to minning with it oh well i have a new one thanks to the nice respawn point back to minning i hope there not there agian i will have to switch belts ..
aww my freighter got ganked oh well ill just keep moving it through there untill they give up killing it ..
pfft stop and think for a moment ..
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James Snowscoran
Caldari
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Eilie
The reason we have ~90% in empire is because ~90% of people are stupid. They continue to think that PvP means they need a full T2-fitted BS which takes them days to get and than lose it in a few min... People like myself keep telling them they don't need a BS to PvP and have fun and even if they do want to use the BS, it's so easy to replace once you're living in 0.0... With jump clones now, it's even easier for a carebear to go out and get some good PvP fun, but they still refuse to do it.
So let's try one last time:
YOU CAN USE JUMP CLONES TO PROTECT IMPLANTS AND JUST PvP IN A 300K RIFTER AND STILL HAVE LOTS OF FUN WITH ALMOST NO RISK!
If you can't understand that, than go play WoW or one of the ~50 other PvE games out there with their thrown in as a last thought unbalanced PvP with no risk and leave us alone to enjoy a real game!
Wrong on all counts. It isn't the cost, OR the risk, that stops me from PvPing. It's the complete and utter lack of fun.
YOU enjoy PvP. Assuming therefore that EVERYONE would enjoy it, means it ain't the people in high-sec empire that are stupid 
Maybe you just sucked then. Or was engaged in some seriously lameass pvp, like logontactics or guarding ASCN gates from noobship scouts 24/7 in zomg wtf huge gatecamps.
The people that are able to compete with fellow players, do. The ones that can't stay in highsec. Oh, and the smart mission runners stay in highsec too. And the macrominers.
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:22:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Wrong on all counts. It isn't the cost, OR the risk, that stops me from PvPing. It's the complete and utter lack of fun.
So why don't you stop *****ing it's too hard and go play with the market or the veldspar or the agents or whatever 
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Wrong on all counts. It isn't the cost, OR the risk, that stops me from PvPing. It's the complete and utter lack of fun.
So why don't you stop complaining it's too hard and go play with the market or the veldspar or the agents or whatever
I never HAVE complained it was too hard. The only thing I complain about is all those idiots who think THEY know what WE will enjoy doing. They don't. They also don't seem to comprehend that EVE is designed to cater for both groups. You go have your fun, and let us have ours, and stop telling us that what we do isn't fun. You're wrong. If it wasn't fun, we wouldn't be doing it. We're not trying to force you to do what we like, stop trying to force us to do what you like.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:27:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Wrong on all counts. It isn't the cost, OR the risk, that stops me from PvPing. It's the complete and utter lack of fun.
So why don't you stop complaining it's too hard and go play with the market or the veldspar or the agents or whatever
I never HAVE complained it was too hard. The only thing I complain about is all those idiots who think THEY know what WE will enjoy doing. They don't. They also don't seem to comprehend that EVE is designed to cater for both groups. You go have your fun, and let us have ours, and stop telling us that what we do isn't fun. You're wrong. If it wasn't fun, we wouldn't be doing it. We're not trying to force you to do what we like, stop trying to force us to do what you like.
And yet the OP is trying to stop what we like entirely, so he can try something he thinsk might be cool, and you are defending him.
What's your point?
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Eilie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Eilie
The reason we have ~90% in empire is because ~90% of people are stupid. They continue to think that PvP means they need a full T2-fitted BS which takes them days to get and than lose it in a few min... People like myself keep telling them they don't need a BS to PvP and have fun and even if they do want to use the BS, it's so easy to replace once you're living in 0.0... With jump clones now, it's even easier for a carebear to go out and get some good PvP fun, but they still refuse to do it.
So let's try one last time:
YOU CAN USE JUMP CLONES TO PROTECT IMPLANTS AND JUST PvP IN A 300K RIFTER AND STILL HAVE LOTS OF FUN WITH ALMOST NO RISK!
If you can't understand that, than go play WoW or one of the ~50 other PvE games out there with their thrown in as a last thought unbalanced PvP with no risk and leave us alone to enjoy a real game!
Wrong on all counts. It isn't the cost, OR the risk, that stops me from PvPing. It's the complete and utter lack of fun.
YOU enjoy PvP. Assuming therefore that EVERYONE would enjoy it, means it ain't the people in high-sec empire that are stupid
Umm, I was replying to the OP who's whole point was about the cost... Pay attention before you troll!
And yea, besides you I havn't met anyone who doesn't like PvP for any reason other than the cost. Sure there are people who don't like certain types of PvP (such as laggy fleet battles) but there are many other kinds of PvP... If you don't care about the cost/risk and still won't PvP, than you're playing the wrong game! 
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James Snowscoran
Caldari
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Wrong on all counts. It isn't the cost, OR the risk, that stops me from PvPing. It's the complete and utter lack of fun.
So why don't you stop complaining it's too hard and go play with the market or the veldspar or the agents or whatever
I never HAVE complained it was too hard. The only thing I complain about is all those idiots who think THEY know what WE will enjoy doing. They don't. They also don't seem to comprehend that EVE is designed to cater for both groups. You go have your fun, and let us have ours, and stop telling us that what we do isn't fun. You're wrong. If it wasn't fun, we wouldn't be doing it. We're not trying to force you to do what we like, stop trying to force us to do what you like.
Players in EVE serve two purposes for CCP:
1) They provide income in the form of subscriptions
2) They provide fun for the other players
So yeah, you're here for mine and everyone else's enjoyment as much as your own. Now quit whining and go into lowsec to get ganked 
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:33:00 -
[41]
The problem with this suggested change is that it affects everyone. Without loss, PvP becomes utterly pointless. Without loss, I won't need to replace my stilettos, my wolfs, my tempests, my scorpions I lose in battle. Which means'mining becomes pointless, ratting becomes pointless.
Even worse, the guy you just killed in his stabbed vagabond, he'll be back 5 mins later in a new one if there is no loss. Yeah, that sounds like fun. Utterly pointless PvP
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Hectaire Glade
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:39:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Hectaire Glade on 04/09/2006 09:39:29
I'm not saying remove all loss, I'm saying cap the loss, financially.
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Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:40:00 -
[43]
I recently decided to try WoW. The primary reason that I quit after such a short time and came back to EvE is the very thing you would remove. WoW has no death penalty worth mentioning, no danger and thus no thrill. You die in EvE, you seethe, you get mad, maybe you have to log out and calm down. You die in WoW you tut, roll your eyes and spend 5 minutes running back to your corpse to resurrect.
Give me EvE and give me Death.
(BTW, I'm one of your 90% and I have absolutely been blown up in <0.5 space by players)
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Russell T Davies is my master now. |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:40:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Verus Potestas on 04/09/2006 09:40:50
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
I'm not saying remove all loos, I'm saying cap the loss, financially.
You mean limit how much you can lose? Like by flying a cheaper or more insurable ship?
Genius! What will they think of next?
edit: and removing all loos is just griefing
Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected])
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Eilie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
Edited by: Hectaire Glade on 04/09/2006 09:39:29
I'm not saying remove all loss, I'm saying cap the loss, financially.
For the love of god... YOU already control how much you lose! Don't PvP with stuff you can't afford to lose...
With your idea everyone will have setups worth 2bil but only lose 100mil per death? It'll make PvP completely pointless and also ruin the economy!
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Ginger Magician
Minmatar
OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:47:00 -
[46]
The argument about improving the rewards in low sec and trying to get more players to come there is valid but the thing is players have been saying this for 2 years or more and CCP just dont take any notice whatsoever of it it seems.
Crappy rats exact same agents as high sec no high end ore and 5k player pirates whose sole aim in playing is to destroy your ship pod u and loot your mods why on earth would any carebear or new player ever consider coming to low sec?
In fact the vast majority who enter low sec are forced to do so by high sec agents which again I dont believe to be corect either.Remove level 3 and 4 agents from high sec and then u will have a proper pvp game.
If a few bears leave so what - its hardly going to be a game breaker.
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Rashmika Clavain
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:48:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 04/09/2006 09:51:16
With all due respect to the original poster, you simply don't get it.
I live in high sec because I want to, not because I am afraid of losing a ship in 0.0; I live in high sec because my corp is there, through choice. We are engaged in corp wars of our own volition, yet if we are scared of PVP in low sec, why would we engage in corp wars in Empire?
Of all the people who have replied to this, I would say "90%" are against your idea, yet you still try to peddle it. If you don't like it, don't play or don't risk it... but stop trying to change it to suit your own needs at the expense of the majority.
Kthx.
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Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
Edited by: Hectaire Glade on 04/09/2006 09:39:29
I'm not saying remove all loss, I'm saying cap the loss, financially.
Read Rodj's post.
You cap the loss by deciding what you fly.
Comfortable with a 5mill loss? Fly a cruiser and not a bs...
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Tao Han
Caldari
Crucial Electronics
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Posted - 2006.09.04 09:58:00 -
[49]
I think there should be even more finacial loss in wars, like removal of insurance or atleast change it so that you will take more of a financial hit.
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Leave my sigs alone *sob - Tao Han |
Major Stormer
Caldari
Demon Womb
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:01:00 -
[50]
Without any/little cost in death, powerful alliances will never be able to be defeated. I love pvp, and also the cost in defeat is what makes the game awesome :) and when you defeat someone, the feeling that you get is so much better then any other.
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0.01 ISK to the first mod that writes in my sig! :D
Pay cash value in cookies plskthx - Immy
Oh man thats gonna be a lot of cookies.
Make them chocolate chip aswell - Xorus
I'll give ya a goat for them cookies!-Tirg |
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:03:00 -
[51]
The problem isn't that people don't leave high sec because they fear low sec. It's that they have no reason to leave it. Farming lvl 4 missions gives you all the isk you'll ever need and with next to no risk too. This is what's screwed up in eve.
All you carebears (note I said carebears, not industrialists. Industrialists don't whine, they adapt.) keep going on about pirates running low sec ganking people who enter there. Well if all you miners, manufacturers, mission runners, traders etc had a reason to go to low sec, then I'm sure some of you could use some collective common sense to team up and attack the pirates back. Teamwork is why the pirates run low sec, it's also why the antipirates give as good as they get from the pirates. If you want safe passage into the areas you want to get to, then provide it yourselves.
Capping the loss is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. If you want to lose less, risk less. The great thing about eve is that players are encouraged to sort their problems out themselves, instead of whining for the devs to change the game to suit them.
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today!
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
 + =♥ - Immy |
Ozzie Asrail
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:06:00 -
[52]
It's the risk v reward in high sec compared to low sec that stops poeple going there not simply the cost of death.
Move all level 4 agents out to low sec and the problem is solved.
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Mrmuttley
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:06:00 -
[53]
hehe I just got popped in a bubble camp flying around a region where my corp has no claim to control. It was only an interceptor and my clone but the total loss was around 50 mill. This is easily affordable by me but it still means something to lose it. I can't afford to lose stuff like that 100 times. Therefore it serves as a reminder to take care in what your doing. Infact the whole reason I got killed was because I made a careless mistake.
Eve has punished me for being lazy. Thats the bit I like about it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Darkrydar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:08:00 -
[54]
Stop trying to hage the game to fit your short comings!
I an't be bothered to say more than that as you arent worth it tbfh.
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Darkrydar
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:11:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
I'm working on the assumption that its not 'fine'.
As I said, we aren't playing any of the other games which pander to risk-free leeroy-kiddies. We're playing eve, because death means something.
Leave my game alone.
And 90% of the player base never leaves hi-sec space. If it's NOT the heavy death penalty that keeps them there, what is it, and how are you going to persuade them to move?
Or do you *seriously* believe that just because YOU like it how it is, then there's no need for CCP to even attempt to attract any other customers.
95% of al figures are made up on the stop.
I knew you'd chime into this thread as its like flies to ****. Althogh in this case you arent even the flies.
CCP doesnt need to grow anymore until they are ready. NEWS FLASH,they already toned the game down ALOT from release. Your constant trolling and whining about Eve being harsh is very annoying.
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Cmdr Sy
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:14:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 04/09/2006 10:14:34
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
Having played an awful lot of MMPORGs over the years I think EVEs only major problem is the cost of death. If the death penalty were in some way reduced further (cost of death in EVE is ship, fittings, plants, time to aquire replacements, time to earn cost of replacement), you would have a lot more people venturing out into the lower sec areas of space looking for a little fun.
I don't want quantity, I want quality. I want the few, heisitant gang / fleet encounters I have in any given corp or alliance to mean something, rather than getting PVP on tap with nothing at stake.
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
I played DAOC, arguably one of the best PVP games on the market at the time, this game had 0 death penalty for PVP, you got killed, you appeared back at your starting location equipment intact and with a short duration sickness timer to disuade suicide bombing. Success and advancement came from points earned in PVP combat. Things like 'I Remain Standing' scores added a sense of competition to the game play. Yes, you had to PVE to get equipment and skills to be competitive, but once you reached a certain level you could then make your choice to go PVP knowing that you were not going to suffer such a significant hit if you got killed.
CS:S is also one of the best PVP games on the market. I got fed up after a couple of nights. And this is the reason why.
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
Maybe 0 death cost is too far the other way, but right now the cost of PVP death in EVE is what makes the 90% of the population who don't venture from safe space reluctant to head out.
That's their problem.
It's kind of realistic anyway. It's a galactic empires game, and not every trader with trader skills and mentality, is going to strap on blasters and go fight the pirates. Some might. The Empire war mechanism has it partly covered anyway. The rest, I'm not worried about. They have their role in the economy either way.
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
Can this be fixed in EVE? I don't know, maybe fully insurable modules would be a step forward, something needs to change, or 0.0 will remain the playground for the established or the rich.
I was never rich when I entered 0.0, though I was when I left it. And to get established, you have to take the step. There are ways of doing it.
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
For example, and please don't get hung up on the numbers here, but what about a flat rate fully insurable premium for ship, modules and implants? Say 100mil flat rate. This would effectively cap the cost of death, something which would make PVP much more attractive for the part-timers out there or those who just want to PVP occasionally but don't want to risk thier entire rig just to have a little fun.
If one ship is "their entire rig", then they're not ready for PVP. We don't need the removal of costs of death, and the impact this would inevitably have on the outcome of Empire and 0.0 wars, just so people with all their eggs in one basket can dip their toe in the water. [/cliche]
Originally by: Hectaire Glade
If module 'durability' was also added, that is, for each time a module gets blown up with a ship, your replacement comes with reduced durability which, when it reaches 0 renders the module useless, items would still expire from the game over time and continue to create market demand (albeit somewhat reduced).
The cost of death needs to be less if we are going to get that other 90% out of 0.5+ on a regular basis.
We don't need the old WoW mechanics here. If that is the price to be paid to get more safe space people into low sec, I'd rather not have them. Harsh, but it can probably be achieved some other way with time.
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3rdD Dave
Gallente
Dark Entropy
iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:35:00 -
[57]
but the cost of someone else demise by your hands is oooh sooo delicious !
if ppl dnt pvp their loss !
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Caztra Tor
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:37:00 -
[58]
@OP-- You make me want to be a pirate. Please leave the game and take all those that think like you do. PvP losses too hard! OMG
No, What you want is the economic benefits of 0.0 w/o risk.
Anyone know where these whiners are coming from?
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3rdD Dave
Gallente
Dark Entropy
iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:43:00 -
[59]
Empire !
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.04 10:46:00 -
[60]
CCP made EVE as a HARDCORE PVP GAME. If you want to have 0 DEATH PENALTY, it wont be a HARDCORE PVP GAME would it? If CCP wanted to make a SOFTCORE PVP GAME they would do so dont you think, but they DIDNT, so WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?
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