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Cost of Death in PVP - Dissuading the Majority from PVP

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Neon Genesis Gallente Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:21:00 - [91] It was said earlier on, but the reason alot of us play is specifically because of the death penalty.
RedLion Caldari Gloria Victis	Posted - 2006.09.04 13:48:00 - [92] I don't mind the death penalty, however, for me as a noob, I don't wanna lose my implants too :( Also it would be cool if you insure your modules too.
Jastra Gallente Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:12:00 - [93] Edited by: Jastra on 04/09/2006 14:13:47 the risk reward balance in this game is perfect, not a one thing needs changing in that regard, it is and remains one of the most interesting and most perfectly implemented parts of the game, I love living in lowsec, this game is dishwater dull if you stay in high sec empire, no matter what you enjoy doing.
TZeer Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:47:00 - [94] Originally by: RedLion I don't mind the death penalty, however, for me as a noob, I don't wanna lose my implants too :( Also it would be cool if you insure your modules too. Use a clone.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:52:00 - [95] Originally by: RedLion I don't mind the death penalty, however, for me as a noob, I don't wanna lose my implants too :( Also it would be cool if you insure your modules too. Then either use a clone or don't use implants. I, personally, don't use implants and I'm not missing them at all. And also, the insurance covers 100% of any T1 ship. If you fit it with cheap modules, the loss is minimal. Losing T2 staff should be painfull, probably not as painfull as it's now, due to overinflated T2 prices, but T2 was never invented as the mainstream technology.
Uuve Savisaalo Umbra Congregatio	Posted - 2006.09.04 14:58:00 - [96] you make me want to shoot myself in the face. perhaps the only reason i (and many others) play eve is precisely because its the last game where death has some real teeth and both risks as well as rewards are tangible. put the pipe down.
Rangkai	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:04:00 - [97] The cost of death is the ONLY reason I play Eve. Nothing gets your heart going faster than being in a fight and knowing that months of hard work could be on the line for both players. If there was no cost of death.. there would be no point in even fighting..
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:49:00 - [98] 1. no 2. go play wow 3. 90% live in empire? you have never visited 0.0 clearly... 4. go play wow 5. mod's please lock this thread and all other "lets make eve like wow" threads 6. (insert the ownerers auto reply to emails here - starts with "you are a...")
Kharriga Caldari The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:56:00 - [99] Originally by: Hectaire Glade Having played an awful lot of MMPORGs over the years I think EVEs only major problem is the cost of death. Having played a few MMPORGs over the years I think EVEs biggest + and in general the thing that separates it from other MMORPGs is the cost of death. The death cost makes you think twice, it makes you use youre brain, makes you play the game fully. For me its the best part of the game.
Rick Dentill Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 15:57:00 - [100] I think there is just not enough encouragement early on for newer people to go into low sec and explore 0.0 I had played almost 18months before I ventured out to 0.0. Low sec was much sooner. If there is some way to get newer people to visit these places and maybe not ganked in the first five minutes then perhaps they will go back and maybe even stay _______ http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd
Minikrimi Extreme Caldari Kimotoro Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.04 16:16:00 - [101] Edited by: Minikrimi Extreme on 04/09/2006 16:17:43 I like Empire space. I have flown (in the past on different accounts) with several corps which engage in Empire war. Check the map sometime-- the Amarr system tends to feature more ship deaths than any other due to the rp wars that engulf Imperial politics. You know why you'll never get me out of Empire space? I like the rp between the established Empires. I don't really give a rat's ass about the here-today-gone-tomorrow player-built houses of cards. I like mentoring new players. I like chatting with fellow mission runners and miners, and always working with a different group. I like having stations around and active markets. You seem to feel that pvp only happens in 0.0. Well, Empire wars can be pretty damned bad. You are in systems with dozens or hundreds of neutrals, if the overview bug strikes you might accidentally target a neutral and CONCORD teaches you a lesson about proper buddy list management (target only those in your addressbook). You can be attacked from out of the blue every time you go to restock on new gear in a major trade hub. There is no region to control-- you can't put in bubbles to catch marauders who target your industry. If anything, it's a lot deadlier and rougher than 0.0 pvp. There is no real respite while you have an Empire War active. And the only way to catch a break is if you can persuade your opponent to rescind the war. Locater agents can make it virtually impossible to relocate effectively. Tell me again why 0.0 is so hard core pvp. I see fortress-like regions with bubble-camped pipeline systems, well-delineated territories, a paucity of neutrals, and ready reinforcements at your disposal in the case of emergency, all with access to 8/10 complexes, Crock and Bist and Ark, named officer rats, etc. If you like to utterly dominate the landscape and fashion it to your liking, then 0.0 is fine. But don't tell me that people stay in Empire because they are afraid of losing their ships, because the death penalty is too high. There is all of the risk and very little of the reward in Empire space. We remember the Morning of Reason with pride, and the Raata Empire with its lessons in the true meaning of power. And we look forward to the day when Caldari Prime, our homeland, is redeemed, and it
Zulak	Posted - 2006.09.04 16:27:00 - [102] 4 pages post flaming the op to death, as soon as I saw his post I knew this is coming. At any rate, I think the problem is that Eve online is about the only space combat sci-fi mmo out right now, this attracts a lot of fans who likes star trek, starwars, BSG, etc but don't nessarily love to pvp. So in other words, those people love EVE's sci-fi space flight background but don't like pvp. The real come-through should be when another sci-fi space mmo shows up such as STO and you will see a lot of those people migrating, so I guess that's good news for the pvp'er as the game won't be so laggy, but forcing someone to go into pvp by moving mission agent to low sec will just make a lot of people quit the game. To be honest though, I don't know how anyone thinks eve's death penalty is hardcore when there is at least clone to protect your sp, insurance for t1 ships. there are many other games with the same if more punishing pvp death penalties, lineage 2, shadowbane, ac1, uo came to mind, oh of course the only real hardcore dp i have seen is playing on diablo2's hardcore server where death means permanent death to your character. saying you are in 0.0 doesn't really mean much, if you are in a big alliance, you can mine/rat in controlled regions all you want with little to no risk, in fact, it is actually easier than a lot of missions. that doesn't seem to have the whole rewarding vs. risk ratio everyone seems to care so much about, neither is running around with 40 men blob, sniping people from noob corp without insta at 200 km or 5 on 1 on a supposed duel. death penalty in eve serves the purpose to get the economy going. empire probably serves the purpose as a economic backbone, but who cares about economy, this is pvp right? so if ccp really wants a full pvp game as everyone agreed it should be, why don't they just remove empires and make all space conquerable like in shadowbane instead of trying so hard baiting empire dwellers to go to low sec? eve is obviously still not hardcore enough. ccp should do something asap.
eLLioTT wave Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.04 16:30:00 - [103] Originally by: Minikrimi Extreme stuff in empire you can't lose the station you base out of.... in 0.0 one day you undock then find you can't dock there anymore.... just a slight problem. empire wars have their place and they are fun but as for "harshness" they do not compare at all to 0.0. In an empire war if i don't want to fight i jump in an inty and no one and nothing can stop me going wherever i want. Can't say the same about 0.0 with dictors and bubbles.
mechtech	Posted - 2006.09.04 16:34:00 - [104] no. you can already do a ton of damage with a 15 mil interceptor setup. Its not a playground for the rich, its just that people are to scared to try 0.0 out and learn how to survive there. Its not a place to be solo, you need a corp. A noob in a corp can have a ton of fun in 0.0 as it is now.
Leverton Caldari Research Associates	Posted - 2006.09.04 16:49:00 - [105] I have to disagree with the OP. That's why this game is fun; there is an ACTUAL penalty if you get blown up. It's no fun if there's no risk involved. The universe is governed by the aggressive use of force. Hows this for a little note! Oh, and YARRRRR!! - Petwraith I prefer the term RAWR - Xorus kekekekekekekeke - Immy
Minikrimi Extreme Caldari Kimotoro Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.04 16:54:00 - [106] Originally by: eLLioTT wave Originally by: Minikrimi Extreme stuff in empire you can't lose the station you base out of.... in 0.0 one day you undock then find you can't dock there anymore.... just a slight problem. empire wars have their place and they are fun but as for "harshness" they do not compare at all to 0.0. In an empire war if i don't want to fight i jump in an inty and no one and nothing can stop me going wherever i want. Can't say the same about 0.0 with dictors and bubbles. But the main point I was trying to make (perhaps I failed) was that the death penalty is just as high or even higher in Empire than it is in 0.0. And having participated in both 0.0 and Empire wars on previous accounts, my opinion is that 0.0 wars are like the old-style "line them up in big orderly ranks" while Empire wars are ambushes and surprise attacks and "OMG they're EVERYWHERE!!!!" experiences. You can't effectively see blobs coming in Empire on the map. And yeah, you might get out in an inty, but battleships still effectively snipe small ships. And there's little to fight over except Veldspar and Scordite and one another's modules. And yet hundreds of people do it, perhaps thousands if you add in those not in rp corps but engage in Empire war. The point is that there are reasons not to go into 0.0-- it caters to certain people, but others, no. I've tried it several times and simply don't like it. Give me the hustle and bustle of Empire, the hide-and-seek nature of Empire based pvp, the thrill of escaping (or killing) a lowsec pirate, the market wars, the rp based on the backstory. Take away the death penalty and you render most pvp pointless. There is no economic victory-- you win when the other guys quit out of boredom of dying. One of the big problems with getting rid of the death penalty is loot. If I have millions of ISK worth of mods and I lose them in combat, they are either destroyed or looted. If I get them back, then either there is no can to loot, or there is now an extra set of high-end named mods floating around. Why not just have a buddy attack you just for the uber loot you drop? You just split the insurance cost, and both of you get a set of your equipped modules. If on the other hand looting other players is removed then a huge part of Eve's player culture is removed as well.
Cattraknoff Caldari Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 17:31:00 - [107] Originally by: Minikrimi Extreme Originally by: eLLioTT wave Originally by: Minikrimi Extreme stuff in empire you can't lose the station you base out of.... in 0.0 one day you undock then find you can't dock there anymore.... just a slight problem. empire wars have their place and they are fun but as for "harshness" they do not compare at all to 0.0. In an empire war if i don't want to fight i jump in an inty and no one and nothing can stop me going wherever i want. Can't say the same about 0.0 with dictors and bubbles. But the main point I was trying to make (perhaps I failed) was that the death penalty is just as high or even higher in Empire than it is in 0.0. And having participated in both 0.0 and Empire wars on previous accounts, my opinion is that 0.0 wars are like the old-style "line them up in big orderly ranks" while Empire wars are ambushes and surprise attacks and "OMG they're EVERYWHERE!!!!" experiences. You can't effectively see blobs coming in Empire on the map. And yeah, you might get out in an inty, but battleships still effectively snipe small ships. And there's little to fight over except Veldspar and Scordite and one another's modules. And yet hundreds of people do it, perhaps thousands if you add in those not in rp corps but engage in Empire war. The point is that there are reasons not to go into 0.0-- it caters to certain people, but others, no. I've tried it several times and simply don't like it. Give me the hustle and bustle of Empire, the hide-and-seek nature of Empire based pvp, the thrill of escaping (or killing) a lowsec pirate, the market wars, the rp based on the backstory. Take away the death penalty and you render most pvp pointless. There is no economic victory-- you win when the other guys quit out of boredom of dying. One of the big problems with getting rid of the death penalty is loot. If I have millions of ISK worth of mods and I lose them in combat, they are either destroyed or looted. If I get them back, then either there is no can to loot, or there is now an extra set of high-end named mods floating around. Why not just have a buddy attack you just for the uber loot you drop? You just split the insurance cost, and both of you get a set of your equipped modules. If on the other hand looting other players is removed then a huge part of Eve's player culture is removed as well. A huge part of Eve's playerbase is also removed. Take away the death penalty and pvp becomes completely useless. It really isn't hard to stay alive anywhere, and really isn't hard to kill the people coming after you, you just have to be smart about it.
Oodlebang Slipslop	Posted - 2006.09.04 17:51:00 - [108] Hi Baldour :) The main problem with pvp in EvE is the transition. Which I beleive is why CCP are making faction warfare. Takes a fair few fights to get the hang of it. But once you have turned from easy level to hard you won't turn back. This doesn't mean being attacked by ebil piwates in low sec. It means actually going out in small groups looking for a fight.

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