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Cost of Death in PVP - Dissuading the Majority from PVP

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Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 10:50:00 - [61] I think it tells me NoInt joined SMASH. I don't see an announcement in Corp and Alliance discussion though. Any particular reason why? Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.04 10:56:00 - [62] Originally by: Verus Potestas I think it tells me NoInt joined SMASH. I don't see an announcement in Corp and Alliance discussion though. Any particular reason why? What you want an announcemnt?
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 10:58:00 - [63] Well, I'm interested in these things When I said why, it was why did you move, not why isn't there an announcement. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Ms Muneca AYDS	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 04/09/2006 08:29:40 Originally by: Hectaire Glade We should remove one of Eve's defining features. No. rofl (<3 the modified quote) But, yes. I agree. The death penalty is EVE is WHY the pvp in this game is so great. It MEANS something when you die or you kill someone. ----------- ----------- -----------
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:00:00 - [65] cause we wanted too :)
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:06:00 - [66] PvP losses too hard? lol Only if you chose them to be. You can be very effective with very cheap fits. And flying a more expensive fit makes survival important, adding a lot of thrill to the fight. And if you mean being ganked, you should know what you get yourself into when going to lowsec (disregarding suicide ganks here, I do think those need to be curbed). Your own fault for being careless if you happen to lose an expensive ship there (been there, done that...) Also, if you want EVE-PvP without risk, go to the test server :P --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Dane Hur Caldari DaHOOD Communication	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:06:00 - [67] If death doesnt cost anything, wars would be gone, not much fun in fighting another corp, when you can hurt them. 95% of the population would move into low sec, because it would be risk free. No thanks! The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. - Wilfred Owen
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock cause we wanted too :) Good answer Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:09:00 - [69] The danger of death is part of the thrill. For example flying solo into an enemy system in a Battleship, demolishing someone and then escaping before the cavalry arrives is genuinely adrenaline inducing because you have a lot to loose if you **** it up. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Ms Muneca AYDS	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:10:00 - [70] To be honest I thought this was a joke thread at first. I laughed. ----------- ----------- -----------
Cmdr Sy EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:13:00 - [71] You know, jump clones have already removed one of the biggest anti-PVP whines, that you couldn't insure implants. Am I wrong? People were forever citing the hundreds of millions of ISK in implant losses as the main reason keeping them out of low sec. Now it's cost of ship fittings? People can't afford to replace their clone and lose 10 mil when a T2-fitted Thorax explodes? I don't understand that.
Krist Valentine Amarr Bad Omen Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:15:00 - [72] Edited by: Krist Valentine on 04/09/2006 11:15:35 Man, the amount you have to lose in PVP is what makes it such a great experience. 0 death penalty is lame. By what you've said, there's no point in having escorts if you mine, there's no way for pirates to make their business, there's no big deal about having a faction ship. Seriously, that's a terrible idea. - - - - - Krist Valentine > Anti Pirate [An-tee-py-rut] - NOUN - Miner who got podded and trained for a Ferox.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:15:00 - [73] Originally by: Cmdr Sy You know, jump clones have already removed one of the biggest anti-PVP whines, that you couldn't insure implants. Am I wrong? People were forever citing the hundreds of millions of ISK in implant losses as the main reason keeping them out of low sec. Now it's cost of ship fittings? People can't afford to replace their clone and lose 10 mil when a T2-fitted Thorax explodes? I don't understand that. I must admit, I avoided 0.0 before jumpclones, because I had a head of +4s I didn't want to lose. In empire, I can look after them pretty damn well. In 0.0, I'm much more likely to lose them. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Gouglash Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:16:00 - [74] To answer the question of why it is that '90% of eve never leaves empire', it's not due to the losses you might incure from dying. Everyone in empire goes into low sec space from time to time, and, to be perfectly honest, low sec is more dangerous than most 0.0. Hell, I live in 0.0 99% of the time, and I am scared of low sec empire! The reason people in empire don't go into 0.0 is because everytime I log in my noob alt to check market in some other region, some dolt in the noobcorp chat is telling all the new players that 0.0 is super dangerous, unfun, or any number of other things. Take Baldour here, for example. He projects his ****ty 0.0 experience to everyone, and doesn't even attempt to temper it with truisms such as "the game is what you make it." It's not 0.0's fault that Baldour didn't have fun, or that Baldour lost more ships than he could afford, or that Baldour thinks missions are more fun than owning space. It's Baldour's fault. People like Baldour never tell people that, though, they just scare new players into thinking 0.0 space is something only 20m + SP pilots can enjoy. Then those newer players become older players, and they just repeat the story. I've seen it many times, argued it many times, and new players don't know who to believe. Most of the time they think I am trying to lure them to my gatecamp or something...
Nebuli Caldari Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:19:00 - [75] Originally by: Eilie The reason we have ~90% in empire is because ~90% of people are stupid. They continue to think that PvP means they need a full T2-fitted BS which takes them days to get and than lose it in a few min... People like myself keep telling them they don't need a BS to PvP and have fun and even if they do want to use the BS, it's so easy to replace once you're living in 0.0... With jump clones now, it's even easier for a carebear to go out and get some good PvP fun, but they still refuse to do it. So let's try one last time: YOU CAN USE JUMP CLONES TO PROTECT IMPLANTS AND JUST PvP IN A 300K RIFTER AND STILL HAVE LOTS OF FUN WITH ALMOST NO RISK! If you can't understand that, than go play WoW or one of the ~50 other PvE games out there with their thrown in as a last thought unbalanced PvP with no risk and leave us alone to enjoy a real game! /emote clap This is exactly my view on it as well, people seem to think that to go to 0.0 and pvp you need the best ship, with the best implants, with the best tech II or even better faction mods fitted to it, so they spend months building the ub3r ship, they then have spent every penny they have on it and head off to find out what this 0.0 pvp is all about. First jump in, they are bubbled, and dead in less than 30 secs, they then come on the forum and whine that the ship either sucked, the race of the ship sucked, player rats are spoiling the game, the cost of death is to high etc etc etc. Muppets tbqh. CEO - Art of War
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:27:00 - [76] Playing EvE is about enjoying yourself. It should be why you play. Some enjoy the politics, some the pvp, some runnnig missions, some mining, some trading, some sick puppies enjoy ruining peoples day for the fun of it, and some enjoy all of the above. Due to Jump Clones, I can enjoy training big skills while running missions in empire with an implant clone (as I am atm) while being able to jump to my home in 0.0 at a moments notice to help with pvp. In pvp I usually fly a T2 frigate, which tbh isn't worht insuring due to the difference between build cost and selling prices. When my character was younger, I used to ***** a low sec lvl 2 agent during the week to afford to buy an interceptor and fittongs, which would be flown down to 0.0 on teh weekend, and pvped with untill it went pop, then I'd restart the cycle. I didn't make any money during that time, but I hugeley enjoyed myself doing it I would gladly see all lvl 4 agents moved to low sec. I only go to the market hubs when I go on a shopping spree, and can't be arsed with trecking around to pick up all my new stuff. Even though I am now able to earn isk faster than when I was running lvl 2s I still only pvp in a T2 frigate or T1 cruiser because I can only afford 1 BS at this time. When I finally get the isk together to own 3, then I'll start pvping in a BS if that size ship is required (there is nothing worse than being in a BS only fleet, or a fleet without enough BS support!) AS stated BS are not neccesary for pvp, and hurt a hell of a lot more to lose than a cruiser or frigate does. The best way to get people out of empire is to increase the rewards in low sec / 0.0, and to educate people about those areas. Low sec does not mean that you WILL be killed as soon as you try and get there, just that if you are unlucky / not paying enough attention, you CAN be killed. All teh while I was running my agent in 0.3 I never lost a ship to players, and was only shot at once because I played smart. I also learned a lot of techniques and tactics, that help keep me safe in 0.0 (and have been forced to remember a few I forgot when I get popped by gank squads too ). Anyway, I'll stop rambling now Akkarin Linkage Do not press this button <3 - Immy
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:32:00 - [77] Originally by: Akkarin Pagan Playing EvE is about enjoying yourself. It should be why you play. Some enjoy the politics, some the pvp, some sick puppies enjoy runnnig missions, some mining, some trading, some ruining peoples day for the fun of it, and some enjoy all of the above. Fixed ----------
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:33:00 - [78] I wouldn't mind if you get to keep your implants when you die .. otherwise it's fine Unnerf Amarr! "Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
Ilmonstre Minmatar 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:36:00 - [79] Edited by: Ilmonstre on 04/09/2006 11:36:45 Originally by: Kuolematon I wouldn't mind if you get to keep your implants when you die .. otherwise it's fine it would destroy the implant market if you did that. wich also means alot of agent offers will be worth next to nothing
Jaine	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:37:00 - [80] Cant imagine eve with zero loss its the thrill of it, have played other online games but this is the only game that maket the heart pound. Nice feeling and rush even if u lose your ship and ocasional pod.
dalman Finite Auxiliary	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:47:00 - [81] How can the death penalty be too high? Loss of a tech2 fitted battleship = ~100M Loss of a tech1 fitted battleship = ~40M Approx isk per hour you make from PvE grinding = ~20M (regardless of what way you choose). So, 2 hours of PvE to finance a T1 fitted BS. 5 hours to finance a T2 fitted BS. If anything, the death penalty in EVE is way too low. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Max Godsnottlingson	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:48:00 - [82] To the OP NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NOT EVER! Oh did I say no Talking as somebody who is more often on the getting killed side of Eve then killing. So long as you don't put a ship you can't afford to loose in danger, or pack all your Evely goods and wealth in that ship getting killed isn't that bad, for me that is, perhaps for a 3 yo character a new clone might make your eyes water a bit when paying for a new one. Death in Eve is one of the things that makes Eve such a buzz, especially as in my case when I can successfully avoid it after getting 'bounced' by pirates. The last thing we need is Eve death turning into a none event like in games such as Planetside
jamesw Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:49:00 - [83] Yes, lets make everything fully insureable, so pilots never really lose any isk in pvp. At least that way, they have more isk for when they get scammed out of all their cash! I love EVE. -- NEW Vid: Domi For the Win!
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:56:00 - [84] Eve-death still is rather mild. You only loose a clone and you're ship. And even without a clone you'd only loose level from one lvl 5 skill. I've played a MUD who gave a 10% skillpoint penalty when you died. And you're inventory including wallet was up for the grabs as well. And lag death was way more common that with Eve nowadays. Or you got PK'ed 3 times a day.
Pete Stalker Fortress of Extermination	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:57:00 - [85] Well, let's take a look at your suggestion to insure your fitting and compare it to the insurance of the ships. A normal t1 frig costs about 200k. It can be insured to 100%, so you get about 200k back when you die. A t2 frig costs about 10-20mil. It can be insured - ofc - to 100%, and if you die you get a few mil back. A "named" (faction) frig costs you about 20-100mil. It can be insured to 100% aswell, tho you get only 200-500k back when you die (never flew a faction ship so I dont know the real numbers). So you can only insure the costs to build a ship. If you want to insure your modules you have to do it the same way... A Small Shield booster t1 costs you about 20k. If you would insure it, you would get 20k back. A Small Shield booster t2 costs about 200-500k. Again, if you'd insure it you would maybe get 50k back, for the extra building costs. A Gistii booster will cost you about 100mil or more. 100% insured you would get back... right, 20k. So? Of course you could insure your fittings, but the really expensiv Mods aren't so expensiv because they are difficult to build. They are so expensiv because they are a) rare b) "most wanted items". Let's say you insure a t1 fitted frig and loose it - maybe you get back 50k more than without the "new module insurance". But - if you loose a t2 fitted interceptor you'd still lose 20 mil. So no, this won't change anything. ______________________ o rly?
Big Al Roving Band of Bunnies	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:10:00 - [86] If they removed the death penalty a lot more people would play the game, the server would crash more often, and the vets would quit. Sounds like a good plan!
TZeer Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:14:00 - [87] Originally by: Hectaire Glade Edited by: Hectaire Glade on 04/09/2006 09:39:29 I'm not saying remove all loss, I'm saying cap the loss, financially. You are aware of insurances right? T1 ship 100% insured fitted with T1 mods or named ones that u have gotten from ratting wont set u back much.
Gunship Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:17:00 - [88] Only reason I play eve is that it's hurts to die. Even the riches playes in eve don't like when his titan goes down or his outpost has been taken over. Dont change the one thing that makes eve stand out! So you want to join us?
Resetgun Caldari Caldari Space Ammunition	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:27:00 - [89] No! I am big old carebear myself, but I understand PvP is essential part of game. Cost of dead is reason that keeps economy going on. "As long as there are greedy people and the devs do nothing, it will work." - Dentara Rast, billionaire
thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.09.04 12:54:00 - [90] a fix to the over inflated t2 markets would be better tbh >: )

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