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Shar Lunas
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 03:45:50 -
[1] - Quote
I've been thinking about aspects of EvE that I find fun and aspects that I don't, and one area keeps sticking out as an annoyance: DSCAN.
Proposal: Change DSCAN from a passive (update on click) to active (updates automatically) function.
Background: DSCAN is an incredibly useful tool, and one of the most important PvP utilities. It tells you all kinds of useful information. Learning to use DSCAN properly is an integral part of moving to lowsec, nullsec, and wormhole space. There many nuances to DSCAN, and learning to focus a scan to find someone or something at a celestial is a fun and rewarding practice.
Problem: Because it is so important, experienced players quickly learn to get in the habit of clicking the "Scan" button every few seconds to keep abreast of any changes. The actual process, however, of clicking the button is tedious and makes virtually no difference to the skill involved in its use.
To use a comparison to gunnery skills, there is skill involved in piloting the ship to the proper ranges, keeping a good transversal ratio, and knowing when to disable weapons, overheat, and change ammo types. If you could not set guns on repeat or group them, however, it would add nothing to the skill involved, and instead create a tedious clicking game that would not meaningfully affect the skill involved in the activity. I believe this is how the "Scan" button in DSCAN is used; it's like having to click modules over and over to activate them.
Reasoning: If the passive scan button were removed from DSCAN, the actual mechanics would require little change. You would still have the ~14 au range, you'd still have to interpret what you see, you'd still have to reduce the scan angle and distance to find specific targets, you'd still have to pay attention to the list, and you still couldn't warp directly to DSCAN results. The only aspect that would change is that someone who forgot to click the button every couple of seconds might not see combat probes or a nearby ship, which would only affect those players who are still learning how to use DSCAN and will probably be caught anyway. Someone distracted by hacking or missioning is only slightly less likely to miss important data.
On the other hand, this will reduce a huge amount of tedium and increase the likelihood beginner players will start learning how to use DSCAN early on in their career. It's a huge quality of life improvement with very little gameplay impact; those inexperienced with DSCAN will still be caught, and those experienced with it will have to click less buttons over and over.
It might also make people more likely to risk missioning, mining, and other PvE activities in lower security space because you've removed one of the biggest annoyances of being there. Sure, clicking DSCAN is easy, which is why it adds nothing to gameplay.
In the interest of making mechanics more modern I feel that this is an easy change that veterans will appreciate (even if they grumble about how they used to have to walk uphill both ways in their spaceships...) and will draw more people out of highsec by reducing the tedium of dangerous space without meaningfully decreasing that danger.
Let me know what you think! |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2096
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 09:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not new to life in dangerous space, but I have always found it very difficult to check d-scan regularly and still do other things. Many times I fail to scan not from forgetting but out of needing to focus on something more important.
I think d-scan should automatically reveal ships and things in the main view, in a blurred out representation of their approximate location. It could merely update only once each time the scan line crosses over, but even that would be a huge benefit to anyone too busy working in the main view or overview to be bothered to click d-scan.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|

Jack Oam
Cube Ural corporation Tesseract alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 09:32:22 -
[3] - Quote
good idea :thumbsup:  |

Mornak
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
19
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 10:41:51 -
[4] - Quote
...so if i'm scouting ahead of my fleet, somewhere mid-warp i get hostiles on d-scan... i'll have 2sec to remember their numbers and their fleet-composition?
...or if i try to scan down belts/ano's while in warp, i'll have to keep my camera-drone pointed to that belt for as long as i want to see the results of the scan?
i understand that this would be a very helpful change for carebears. if you use your d-scan as a purely defensive tool, aka a "when to warp out"-tool, this feature is helpful. For PVPers on the other hand, this feature ****up d-scan.
i wouldn't mind if you could switch between what you call active/passive-modes, just don't force me to use this.
|

Lugh Crow-Slave
308
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 12:00:51 -
[5] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I'm not new to life in dangerous space, but I have always found it very difficult to check d-scan regularly and still do other things. Many times I fail to scan not from forgetting but out of needing to focus on something more important.
.... that's the point of it's current state
|

Hiasa Kite
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
93
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 12:28:24 -
[6] - Quote
I like Mornak's take on the idea.
People to vote for CSM X(in order): Sabriz Adoudel, Steve Ronuken, Manfred Sideous, Mike Azariah, Gorski Car
|

Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
62
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 12:54:31 -
[7] - Quote
Shar Lunas wrote:I've been thinking about aspects of EvE that I find fun and aspects that I don't, and one area keeps sticking out as an annoyance: DSCAN.
Proposal: Change DSCAN from a passive (update on click) to active (updates automatically) function.
Background: DSCAN is an incredibly useful tool, and one of the most important PvP utilities. It tells you all kinds of useful information. Learning to use DSCAN properly is an integral part of moving to lowsec, nullsec, and wormhole space. There many nuances to DSCAN, and learning to focus a scan to find someone or something at a celestial is a fun and rewarding practice.
Problem: Because it is so important, experienced players quickly learn to get in the habit of clicking the "Scan" button every few seconds to keep abreast of any changes. The actual process, however, of clicking the button is tedious and makes virtually no difference to the skill involved in its use.
To use a comparison to gunnery skills, there is skill involved in piloting the ship to the proper ranges, keeping a good transversal ratio, and knowing when to disable weapons, overheat, and change ammo types. If you could not set guns on repeat or group them, however, it would add nothing to the skill involved, and instead create a tedious clicking game that would not meaningfully affect the skill involved in the activity. I believe this is how the "Scan" button in DSCAN is used; it's like having to click modules over and over to activate them.
Reasoning: If the passive scan button were removed from DSCAN, the actual mechanics would require little change. You would still have the ~14 au range, you'd still have to interpret what you see, you'd still have to reduce the scan angle and distance to find specific targets, you'd still have to pay attention to the list, and you still couldn't warp directly to DSCAN results. The only aspect that would change is that someone who forgot to click the button every couple of seconds might not see combat probes or a nearby ship, which would only affect those players who are still learning how to use DSCAN and will probably be caught anyway. Someone distracted by hacking or missioning is only slightly less likely to miss important data.
On the other hand, this will reduce a huge amount of tedium and increase the likelihood beginner players will start learning how to use DSCAN early on in their career. It's a huge quality of life improvement with very little gameplay impact; those inexperienced with DSCAN will still be caught, and those experienced with it will have to click less buttons over and over.
It might also make people more likely to risk missioning, mining, and other PvE activities in lower security space because you've removed one of the biggest annoyances of being there. Sure, clicking DSCAN is easy, which is why it adds nothing to gameplay.
In the interest of making mechanics more modern I feel that this is an easy change that veterans will appreciate (even if they grumble about how they used to have to walk uphill both ways in their spaceships...) and will draw more people out of highsec by reducing the tedium of dangerous space without meaningfully decreasing that danger.
Let me know what you think!
Klick the button if you wanna infos if your to lazy thats non of my business.
A No from me.
-1 |

Esmanpir
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
12
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 13:40:20 -
[8] - Quote
Been suggested before, not going to happen. Did you search to see if there is already a thread on active D-Scan? Had a thread locked just a few days ago with the excuse that this idea had already been discussed and there were active threads already open on it. |

Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
747
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 14:33:01 -
[9] - Quote
Next thread in this chain:
"I forgot to run my DSCAN from 5 degrees to 360 and died, please automatically reset the values for every scan!".
-1
Edit: to expand why this is a bad idea; you are effectively turning your overview from on-grid to a 14.3 AU pos trash scanner and this would be highly exploited. |

Shivanthar
154
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 14:50:43 -
[10] - Quote
This is no different than having to spam warp button when ship lands on gate in the past, so +1. Useless manual requirements should be removed.
A spaceship with manual radar sweep button! :lol: It is simply out of place during the age of spaceships.
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
|

Shivanthar
154
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 14:58:35 -
[11] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:Next thread in this chain:
"I forgot to run my DSCAN from 5 degrees to 360 and died, please automatically reset the values for every scan!".
-1
Declining something with an exaggaration is a bad practice. Save your -1 if that subject ever appears because this has nothing to do with it.
Adrie Atticus wrote: Edit: to expand why this is a bad idea; you are effectively turning your overview from on-grid to a 14.3 AU pos trash scanner and this would be highly exploited.
OP doesn't mention any overview change. This is a all-troll answer. Did you even dare to read the OP really?
I beg you to tell me a case that creates a highly exploited situation when a code piece pushes your d-scan for you, without any functional change. Just one example.
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
|

Helios Panala
5
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 15:40:08 -
[12] - Quote
Hiasa Kite wrote:I like Mornak's take on the idea.
Same. +1 for that idea. |

Iburim
Revange of mining lasers
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 17:04:57 -
[13] - Quote
Good idea, but with two changes:
1 - Like Mornak mantioned, it should have active/passive switch.
2 - It should "pulse" every 2 seconds (right now you have to wait 1 - 1,5 sec to push the button again) |

159Pinky
Under Heavy Fire Mordus Angels
8
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 17:16:57 -
[14] - Quote
No auto dscan is needed. If you forget it: your mistake. As you mentioned, clicking dscan is easy, so I don't see the problem? Mining is easy + dscan is easy = mining + dscan somewhat easy ! Shooting us easy + dscan is easy = nullsec plexs is somewhat easy !
Short: -1 |

Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel
219
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 17:55:25 -
[15] - Quote
-1 . Imagine sticking a cloaky alt in your system all day. Then just having them port out the dscan to some tool like dingo every 5seconds. Then have those fetched from some email server. |

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3624
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 17:59:19 -
[16] - Quote
159Pinky wrote:No auto dscan is needed. If you forget it: your mistake. As you mentioned, clicking dscan is easy, so I don't see the problem? Mining is easy + dscan is easy = mining + dscan somewhat easy ! Shooting us easy + dscan is easy = nullsec plexs is somewhat easy !
Short: -1 Have you ever been to WH space?
Oh god.
|

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3624
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 18:01:24 -
[17] - Quote
Wait wait! I have an idea! Deployable D-Scanner ;x
CCP loves deployables, right?
Oh god.
|

Dantes Wolf
Shadow Legion X The Bastion
60
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 18:07:55 -
[18] - Quote
So.. predators hates it, and the prey loves it. - Imo, the function - if nothing else but for the lore (I mean, we can fly at above lightspeed, but we can't get info on our near-space..? - Not very probable), should be active on it's own BUT, it should require the D-scan to be open to benefit from the info - no "you have a million ships in local of this and that type" in your overview: The "scan"button should go, but the intel should remain in the same window we have had so far. - Fact is, the button sux, it's not probable lorewise, and hunters still has all the options of remaining in cloak if they wanna jump someone. - I'm a PVP'er myself, but making life a tad easier for our "always ganked miners" wouldn't hurt any1, imo.
In short: +1
"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".
|

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2104
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 19:26:04 -
[19] - Quote
Eldwinn wrote:-1 . Imagine sticking a cloaky alt in your system all day. Then just having them port out the dscan to some tool like dingo every 5seconds. Then have those fetched from some email server. So your argument is that since there are some people who automate d-scan (illegitimately), it is thus a bad idea to allow this functionality legitimately? What bad thing would happen in your scenario? Would the cheater's little loophole suddenly give them more intel above the norm than it did previously?
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|

Shivanthar
159
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 20:49:09 -
[20] - Quote
I've just seen the Mornak's answer. +1 for that also. Making this thing switchable is a really good way to go. My .02 isk: everyone will dip their finger to taste this if it ever goes live.
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
|

Jack Oam
Cube Ural corporation Tesseract alliance
0
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 20:57:44 -
[21] - Quote
Mornak wrote:...so if i'm scouting ahead of my fleet, somewhere mid-warp i get hostiles on d-scan... i'll have 2sec to remember their numbers and their fleet-composition?
...or if i try to scan down belts/ano's while in warp, i'll have to keep my camera-drone pointed to that belt for as long as i want to see the results of the scan?
i understand that this would be a very helpful change for carebears. if you use your d-scan as a purely defensive tool, aka a "when to warp out"-tool, this feature is helpful. For PVPers on the other hand, this feature ****up d-scan.
i wouldn't mind if you could switch between what you call active/passive-modes, just don't force me to use this.
All good points, but at least can we have a checkbox that enables auto scan and a timeout control. I'm pretty sure that automating a button click is less complex then building a spaceship 
CCP please save pilots from Carpal tunnel syndrome |

Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
441
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 21:03:21 -
[22] - Quote
So in terms of functionality, would you be able to set this to ping over a set interval, i.e. every few seconds? |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2106
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 21:22:51 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Oam wrote:CCP please save pilots from Carpal tunnel syndrome 
Catherine Laartii wrote:So in terms of functionality, would you be able to set this to ping over a set interval, i.e. every few seconds? It should have a maximum rate slower than you can manually d-scan, but yes! CCP save us from carpal tunnel syndrome!
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|

Lienzo
Amanuensis
1
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 23:35:34 -
[24] - Quote
I'd govern the update rate based on the set range and scope of the scan. The more data you want, the longer you have to wait.
Secondly, dscan gives fleet comps a little too inexpensively. Reduce the information presented to categorical data: ie 1mn magnetometric signal.
Thirdly, give different kinds of ships different native scanning attributes, particularly for maximum range. Pods, start ships and shuttles should be virtually worthless for scanning.
|

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
224
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 02:03:30 -
[25] - Quote
As someone who is on both sides of the dscanner (predator/prey)...
I like mornak's idea: switchable active/passive I would also suggest that dscan doesn't auto-update as fast as it could if you spammed the button (say, every 3s, instead of 2s?)
But I'm still gonna grumble that "when I was a noob, we had to walk uphill both ways in our spaceships"
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
|

Euripedies
Hot Droppin Cherry Poppers
29
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 04:23:16 -
[26] - Quote
Clicking dscan is a giant pain in the clicking finger. Mousing over to click the ********* thing every two seconds is painfully annoying. I can't see that constantly clicking on it helps game play in any way. There are many aspects to the dscan, your overview needs to be set up correctly. Dscan actually needs to be open, your eyes have to look at it and not at red crosses. If you are a hunter you are actively using it and the clicking on the scan button is not doing anything to increase your gaming pleasure. It's just causing carpal tunnel syndrome in your finger.
Fix the ********** dscan. |

Euripedies
Hot Droppin Cherry Poppers
29
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 04:35:12 -
[27] - Quote
Or assign it to a hot key so I can stop the ****"*** mouse clicking and mash a button instead. |

Tex Raynor
Guardians of Asceticism
9
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 05:15:43 -
[28] - Quote
While I agree clicking the scan button every 2 secs gets tedious, I think the passive version should have a disadvantage such as "cycles every 10 secs" or reduced range.
I also agree with a point raiser earlier: the whole automation doesn't work well when hunting using a reduced angle. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2116
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 05:22:56 -
[29] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:I would also suggest that dscan doesn't auto-update as fast as it could if you spammed the button (say, every 3s, instead of 2s?) I'd go with 10s. That's plenty fast enough to get me using that feature.
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance)
"What if [climate change is] a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" -comic on Greenmonk
|

Shivanthar
159
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 09:20:44 -
[30] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I'd go with 10s. That's plenty fast enough to get me using that feature.
Switchable and 10s passive sweep sounds pretty reasonable for me too ^.^
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
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