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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 25 post(s)
Helganstandt Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.11.27 21:51:00 - [151] Originally by: JOSEPHx Originally by: Helganstandt Ok, I'm a bit confused here. Rules say you can lock beforehand, but then LeMonde says they will fire an ECM burst at the beginning anyway. So what is the point of having that in the rules if the lock is going to be broken at the start anyway? That's just contradictory, and very confusing. I would ask that either "ECM burst will be fired to signify a start to the match" be added to the official rules, or remove the part saying you can lock beforehand altogether since it makes no difference if an ECM burst is going to be fired. Unless someone can give me a plausible reason as to why you'd need to lock beforehand if you're just going to lose the lock anyway. Ship scanner wouldn't make sense since you're already setup....don't know what else you could do really. I am pretty sure that when the ecm burst is fired it breaks everones lock at exactly the same time, signalling the start of the match, its a pretty easy way to start the fight rather than a countdown or ready, staedy go. -- That's why it makes no sense to have the "you can lock beforehand" rule though. If your lock is going to be broken, why is there a rule stating you can lock beforehand. I want to know what is actually going to happen so we know whether we need to fit sensor boosters or not (if we can lock beforehand, then there's no need). I'm hoping that Shin Ra is right, in that it's just a subtle way of saying that you can ship scan or something beforehand, but overall seems pretty useless. I just want something official to be said about it. By the way, looking foward to fighting you guys first, heh.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.11.28 01:25:00 - [152] Likewise ---\|\|---
Theoraden Dark Cartel Otherworld Empire Productions	Posted - 2006.11.29 09:04:00 - [153] Originally by: Helganstandt Originally by: JOSEPHx Originally by: Helganstandt Ok, I'm a bit confused here. Rules say you can lock beforehand, but then LeMonde says they will fire an ECM burst at the beginning anyway. So what is the point of having that in the rules if the lock is going to be broken at the start anyway? That's just contradictory, and very confusing. I would ask that either "ECM burst will be fired to signify a start to the match" be added to the official rules, or remove the part saying you can lock beforehand altogether since it makes no difference if an ECM burst is going to be fired. Unless someone can give me a plausible reason as to why you'd need to lock beforehand if you're just going to lose the lock anyway. Ship scanner wouldn't make sense since you're already setup....don't know what else you could do really. I am pretty sure that when the ecm burst is fired it breaks everones lock at exactly the same time, signalling the start of the match, its a pretty easy way to start the fight rather than a countdown or ready, staedy go. -- That's why it makes no sense to have the "you can lock beforehand" rule though. If your lock is going to be broken, why is there a rule stating you can lock beforehand. I want to know what is actually going to happen so we know whether we need to fit sensor boosters or not (if we can lock beforehand, then there's no need). I'm hoping that Shin Ra is right, in that it's just a subtle way of saying that you can ship scan or something beforehand, but overall seems pretty useless. I just want something official to be said about it. By the way, looking foward to fighting you guys first, heh. If you don't have a lock before an ECM burst is fired, then you don't know the burst has been fired? So by having a lock and then losing it, you know the match has started? --- I have a Biatch called res0
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.29 10:56:00 - [154] Please update the contestants list for The Red Skull (and others if they've been changed) asap to reduce the ammount of whining. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.11.29 12:38:00 - [155] Originally by: dalman Please update the contestants list for The Red Skull (and others if they've been changed) asap to reduce the ammount of whining. Yeah same for Terra Incognita. If anyone is desperate to know our changes - evemail me.

LeMonde	Posted - 2006.11.29 13:41:00 - [156] Contestants page was updated. After the 20th we have allowed no changes to teams, save for one exception. Our EveTV commentator, DJ Condor, could not make it to Iceland due to medical reasons. We quickly found a replacement, Trevedian. Our rules state that no employee or member of CCP or EveTV is allowed to compete in the tournament, and thus we allowed Dalman to take Trevedians spot on the Red Skull team. Some more issues raised in this (and other) threads: 1) There will be an ECM burst fired at the beginning of every match. This not being a part of the rules PDF is my mistake. Shin Ra is correct that allowing locking before fighting is a subtle hint that people can scan their opponents ships before the match starts. It also gives you a clear indicator when you are able to start locking and when the fight begins. 2) We did take a good hard look at Crystal implants and decided not to change them (now). Like somebody pointed out, changing a module for the sake of the tournament is a bad thing. The issue of allowing them in the tournament was raised at a meeting where representatives from most of the alliances in the top 16 from last time were present. I personally voted to not allow them, but the majority said otherwise. 3) The dates for the tournament were decided in August when Revelations was scheduled for October. We cannot change the dates of the tournament due to EveTV scheduling issues. We have ten people who have flown from the US and UK, and I don't want to keep them here for another week. Also, I know pilots who have set their vacations around the tournament, and we wouldn't want to screw them over. Also, I would like to raise the issue of disallowing information warfare modules. The last minute change to those was not realized by many teams who may have wanted to change their strategy accordingly. I would like to see arguments for and against before making a decision.

TWD TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.29 13:50:00 - [157] For the removal of the Electronic Superiority link. Unexpected change that went in just a few days ago and will make a huge difference to the tournament. The bonus is cumulative, one dampener will benefit "slightly" from the bonus but when using 3 dampeners it nearly doubles the effects on the target when using an Eos w/ max skills/mindlink. This means that the lock range of the target will be almost halved and the locking time almost doubled when comparing to the same ship not receiving the gang bonus. The teams with a max skilled Eos pilot will be very very lucky if this stays in
Max Teranous Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.29 14:31:00 - [158] Also for the removal of the Electronic Superiority link. The decision to allow the use of dampening in the tournie was undoubtedly taking into account it's effectiveness at that time. With the changes to the link just days before the event takes the effectiveness of damps from a good tactic but dealable with, to overpowering. Further it will make for boring fights, spoiling the spectacle for eve-tv. Max --------------------
Helplessandlost Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:40:00 - [159] Question that may have been answered already, how do we get our ships to the staging area? Do we have to pre-fit them and have them moved or will we be able to buy and fit at the staging area? /me is looking forward to Friday "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!" http://images.filecloud.com/283570/hal201.jpg signature removed (max size 24000 bytes) - please email us (with the signature URL) if you want to know why - Pirlouit([email protected])
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.29 15:55:00 - [160] Originally by: Helplessandlost Question that may have been answered already, how do we get our ships to the staging area? Do we have to pre-fit them and have them moved or will we be able to buy and fit at the staging area? A dev/gm/isd use their transport command to move you and the ship you are in to that place. So yes, you need them prefit. And if you plan to win the final despite losing your ship in the 3 other matches that day, you better have 4 prefitted ships ready... Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
ShadowlordUK	Posted - 2006.11.29 16:23:00 - [161] Edited by: ShadowlordUK on 29/11/2006 16:26:53 I fail to see why a team would need '4 prefitted ships ready'.... Presumably after each flight the pilots are either going to be moved back to empire or pod themselves back... Needing to buy and fit all the ships you might need for the entire tourney would be almost impossible for some of the smaller alliences such as my own... P.S. I'd like to have a little whine about crystal implants being allowed in the tourney... Basically means that any allience without these very expensive modules is going to be at a disadvantage before they even start the battle.. No surprise why a majority of people in the top 16 last time voted for it lol! Why wouldnt they? Most of them belong to the alliences that want the advantage!
QwaarJet Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:09:00 - [162] Agreed with Shadowlord on the crystal implants. Regardless of what the top 16 alliances say, they should NOT be allowed. And yes, I vote for disallowing the changed warfare link. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Tigertex Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2006.11.29 18:32:00 - [163] If we want to make this tourny better than the last one, it needs to be more exicting, with the points system in it allows for many different setups. As things where i was worried that it would be too sensor dampener centred, therefore creating very one sided matches with the team than managed to dampen the other first first, winning. Now with the changes to the Information warfare this is now 1000 times worse. If it remains it will see very one sided fighting, that will contain no interest to the people of eve. What we want is fights like the semi finals last year, where the tide of the match kept changing. Information warfare changes will not allow this to happen.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.29 19:16:00 - [164] I think banning that particular gang module would be good. http://eve.klaki.net/
Ifni Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.11.29 20:22:00 - [165] My personal view is to leave it in. Ok, it's a last minute change to the tournament, but the module has been brought in line with the other mindlinks. That means that prior to this change, all those using this mindlink were not getting the full advantage from it. All the teams follow the same rules, so it's not like one team is getting an advantage over another. Additionally, when the votes were made on the module restrictions, I wasn't keen to limit any of them except remote tanking. I wanted to keep the tournament as close to live TQ PVP as possible. I understand the arguments for and against the use of EW, but as has been said in reference to the previous tournament, it was more like you were hunting npcs than fighting a real opponent. Disallowing this module is another step towards making the tournament a highly abstract form of PVP. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:07:00 - [166] Originally by: Ifni My personal view is to leave it in. Ok, it's a last minute change to the tournament, but the module has been brought in line with the other mindlinks. That means that prior to this change, all those using this mindlink were not getting the full advantage from it. All the teams follow the same rules, so it's not like one team is getting an advantage over another. Additionally, when the votes were made on the module restrictions, I wasn't keen to limit any of them except remote tanking. I wanted to keep the tournament as close to live TQ PVP as possible. I understand the arguments for and against the use of EW, but as has been said in reference to the previous tournament, it was more like you were hunting npcs than fighting a real opponent. Disallowing this module is another step towards making the tournament a highly abstract form of PVP. And a prearranged 5 vs 5 isn't abstract pvp?
TWD TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.29 21:55:00 - [167] Originally by: Ifni My personal view is to leave it in. Ok, it's a last minute change to the tournament, but the module has been brought in line with the other mindlinks. That means that prior to this change, all those using this mindlink were not getting the full advantage from it. All the teams follow the same rules, so it's not like one team is getting an advantage over another. Additionally, when the votes were made on the module restrictions, I wasn't keen to limit any of them except remote tanking. I wanted to keep the tournament as close to live TQ PVP as possible. I understand the arguments for and against the use of EW, but as has been said in reference to the previous tournament, it was more like you were hunting npcs than fighting a real opponent. Disallowing this module is another step towards making the tournament a highly abstract form of PVP. 1) Its not 'real' day to day PvP, and it will never be that way. It will have to be balanced for this situation. 2) For every tournament its important that the game rules are clear and do NOT change after the sign-ups are finalized. I thought an "Expert" would know this.
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.11.29 23:24:00 - [168] Edited by: dalman on 29/11/2006 23:27:59 Originally by: Ifni Additionally, when the votes were made on the module restrictions, I wasn't keen to limit any of them except remote tanking. I wanted to keep the tournament as close to live TQ PVP as possible...it was more like you were hunting npcs than fighting a real opponent. That's some very weird reasoning imo. Shouldn't that be changed to something in the lines of: "Live TQ PVP is like if you were hunting npcs, rather than fighting a real opponent as in the tournament". Except that in TQ PvP compared to NPCing, it's not sufficiant that you're outnumbered 1vs3-6 like when NPCing, but more of them usually spawns. What a tournament does is to define rules. Rules about what can happen. The worst change in EVE ever imo was the removal of the "instant" map. That basicly took away the only rule there was on TQ, and now I don't know if we're "only" outnumbered 1vs2 when we engage or if it'll be 1vs10 soon. That takes away most of my possibilities when it comes to strategies and tactics. If I had a clearer view on TQ about what I'd be facing, I'd use much more sofisticated tactics - and remote repping for sure. On this arena however, with defined rules, I have the fullest possibilities to implement and change strategies and tactics. Finally a battle against a "real opponent"! As such, I am concerned about changes and unclear rules - both now and at last tournament(s). But on the subject I really couldn't care less. I've spent 0 seconds of examining PvP on SiSi, 0 seconds of thinking about the tournament, and you guessed it - 0 seconds of training skillpoints for the tournament, before I was suddenly called in (and our team has other issues as well). So personally I kinda enjoy that things are unclear for the other teams... Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.11.30 00:17:00 - [169] After reading some posts on the forums and talking to some people in finding I am not alone in my opinions abotu this tournament, I was driven to make a post about them. When I heard about the 3rd tourney and the ew being allowed, I was excited. Adding in some EW makes the tourney into more then a tankfest. Not allowing ECM and allowing other forms of EW is understandable, but then allowing teams to lock each other BEFORE the match starts???? WHY? A good percentage of the combat effectiveness of EW ships lies in the ability to lock the other guy first. Having my ew support getting 1 volleyed right off the bat makes it pointless to even bother with them. The point system sounded like a good idea, and is, it's just there aren't enough points IMHO to create decent enough squads make for decent fights to watch. 2 more points would of made things much more interesting to watch. The planning of this tournament was just miserable. Don't take it personally, but I don't care how many eveTV guys had to go out of their way or how many event ISD guys had to stay up late or w/e to set this up. Having a tournament in the middle of a patching/expansion period is a terrible idea, Period. You can't have a tournament without the contestants, and right now, everyone I have personally talked too that is involved is ticked off about the planning and feels the responsable thing to do is to just push it back until the dust settles from revelations. I know when the tourney was set up, people we probably unsure of the status of kali and it's deployment. But soon after the tourney was annouced, it became clear that the patch was going to fall very close to the start of the tournament. Yet no action was taken to compensate for this. What is the logic behind this? Is there any even?
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.11.30 01:23:00 - [170] I don't especially care either way as anyone fitting that gang mod will still die just as easily. However, I will go with popular opinion this time and say for it to be removed as its obviously going to make quite a difference to some teams. Remember equal not fair.
ShadowlordUK	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:06:00 - [171] Edited by: ShadowlordUK on 30/11/2006 11:19:39 Originally by: Troubadour When I heard about the 3rd tourney and the ew being allowed, I was excited. Adding in some EW makes the tourney into more then a tankfest. Not allowing ECM and allowing other forms of EW is understandable, but then allowing teams to lock each other BEFORE the match starts???? WHY? A good percentage of the combat effectiveness of EW ships lies in the ability to lock the other guy first. Having my ew support getting 1 volleyed right off the bat makes it pointless to even bother with them. The point system sounded like a good idea, and is, it's just there aren't enough points IMHO to create decent enough squads make for decent fights to watch. 2 more points would of made things much more interesting to watch. The planning of this tournament was just miserable. Don't take it personally, but I don't care how many eveTV guys had to go out of their way or how many event ISD guys had to stay up late or w/e to set this up. Having a tournament in the middle of a patching/expansion period is a terrible idea, Period. You can't have a tournament without the contestants, and right now, everyone I have personally talked too that is involved is ticked off about the planning and feels the responsable thing to do is to just push it back until the dust settles from revelations. I know when the tourney was set up, people we probably unsure of the status of kali and it's deployment. But soon after the tourney was annouced, it became clear that the patch was going to fall very close to the start of the tournament. Yet no action was taken to compensate for this. What is the logic behind this? Is there any even? The planning for this tournament was actually very good as far as i can see... The recent patch has been the most problem free update that i can remember in the last 3 years and allowing teams to practice on singularity and updating their skills on the test server have all helped remove any problems teams might face with the new ships. If your team hasnt made the effort to practice or think about possible setups then it is probably a pretty bad team anyway. (Doesnt mean practice will pay off.. I still have nightmares of the team being totally destroyed in the match ... but at least you can have a game plan) Ok allowing crystal implants is a mistake in my opinion and having module changes after the team selection has been made is .... well a little unfortunate. However anybody posting in this thread will have some bias to the warfare link depending on what they know their team is fielding.. So it should really be up to the tournament organisers and not open to discussion. Lets face it... if you know your team is going to use damps then you will vote to keep it in, and if your team is not going to use damps you will vote to ban it lol... As far as the points choice is concerned I think its pretty much perfect... It SUPPOSED to restrict you on your options... If everybody could just field 3 faction bs there would be no point to the system lol. Its about making good choices and deciding where you have to sacrifice elements in order to make your team strategy work. You cant be strong in every area and thats the way it should be... 2 More points would lead to vastly more boring matches.... P.S. You can lock before the match starts, but that lock is then broken before you can actually engage or do anything.
ookke	Posted - 2006.11.30 11:47:00 - [172] Would make sense to not allow the information warfare gang links. AFAIK, at the point on signups 2 out of 3 info warfare links were still borked, and now they suddenly got fixed, a bit random. I'm a bit disappointed that crystal set nerf was also announced, but then withdrawn only a few days before the tournament. Another random boost(to keep it as it is) to something that was considered to be "crap" at sign up stage.

LeMonde	Posted - 2006.11.30 15:41:00 - [173] Information Warfare links are no longer allowed in the tournament. We have sent out mails to all contestants with the in-game channel which you should be present in before joining. If you have not received this mail, please open a convo with me. I will be online all day.

QwaarJet Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.30 16:12:00 - [174] That's good to hear Lemonde. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.30 16:59:00 - [175] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I think banning that particular gang module would be good. I think banning Tyrrax from the tournament would be good. He'll take a dive again anyway. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Evil Thug Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:03:00 - [176] Do we really need rules, if they are changing constantly, depending on whinage in your msn, Lemonde ?
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:08:00 - [177] I dont suppose were ever going to get any contact from ccp as to when/where we need to be, what channels and such. Sending that email friday morning GMT does not do much as 1/2 my team is getting up at 5am in the US and will NOT have time to read such.
Helplessandlost Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:47:00 - [178] Another quick question cause I seem to think I've seen some conflicting information on this. Before each match, we are in an empire station in the ship we will use in the match and will be moved ~30 minutes before our match starts. <==This I'm assuming is correct. The real question is do we have to have more then one ship setup ready to go prior to each match? Or is this a requirement of the second week when it is possible that you will need to fight more then one time in a day? "Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive!" http://images.filecloud.com/283570/hal201.jpg signature removed (max size 24000 bytes) - please email us (with the signature URL) if you want to know why - Pirlouit([email protected])
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.30 21:15:00 - [179] Edited by: maGz on 30/11/2006 21:15:17 WTS backbone Oh and that thing about the top 16-alliance voting on pirate implants - nice way to kick all the smaller alliances, not able to buy pirate implants for their team, in ze *******... I've said it before and I'll say it again: Get someone else to handle these tournaments! ____________ The Priory Killboard
Lunas Feelgood Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.12.01 01:33:00 - [180] Originally by: maGz Edited by: maGz on 30/11/2006 21:15:17 WTS backbone Oh and that thing about the top 16-alliance voting on pirate implants - nice way to kick all the smaller alliances, not able to buy pirate implants for their team, in ze *******... I've said it before and I'll say it again: Get someone else to handle these tournaments! I coulnt agree more.. All the big alliance can prop afford faction BS and get all there pilots with high grade faction implants.. However all the small alliance like E-U or other small ones dont got a chance in hell to get there pilots that.. So before the tournament starts all the small alliance is allrdy in a major disadvantage.. And offcourse Lemonde all the last 16 alliance in the last tournament gonna vote yes for faction implntas, since its all those alliance that can afford it...

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