| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Proph
   |
Posted - 2003.06.02 17:28:00 -
[1]
*CROSSPOST* (I'm not sure which forum people will read posts anymore)
I had this thought a few days ago, and Belial's thread brought it to the forefront of my mind yet again. I'll repost it here because I think it deserves its own thread:
If you recall, Belial was selling the name of a system that was full of rare ore. The problem, in my mind, is that protecting his or another corp's interest in the effort it takes to find/mine a profitable system is difficult due to a particular galaxy map setting....
****
BTW, this brings up an thought I had about the new ore distribution. What's to stop someone from looking at the galaxy map with the filter "Number of pilots" turned on and just finding the remote systems that have pilots in them? Those pilots aren't out there *sightseeing*...they're there for a reason. I think that filter on the map has *got* to go to protect explorers/corporations from being overrun and having their investment (find the system/moving out there/mining in hostile territory) devalued. Any thoughts on this? I can't believe more people aren't b****ing about that feature of the galaxy map.
****
There's the quote. I would like to see the ability to see the number of pilots in other systems *skill based* or removed entirely. For instance, skill level 1 would allow you to see the number of pilots in systems one jump from yours, then 5, then 10, then 20, etc...(the numbers could be balanced as needed, of course). Another skill (as suggested by b1) would *hide* your ship from the map/skill. Any thoughts?
-Proph
|
tunah
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 17:45:00 -
[2]
Nothing further to add except that I agree.
|
Shauna
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 17:50:00 -
[3]
Gotta say, I agree... kind of makes it just a little *too* easy to find the good stuff.
Of course, you might warp into a system "owned" by a megacorp--they might not want you there... The risk could be a lot higher now that the ores are a lot rarer. They might not want to share :)
Anyone else seeing potential corp wars on the horizon over mineral rights?
Edited by: Shauna on 02/06/2003 17:51:20 |
Cachorro Louco
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 17:53:00 -
[4]
I would agree if this ONLY covers systems not part of the main races (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar, and a couple others I don't remember).
The systems not part of the main races are basically "out in the sticks" and thus have bad comunications.
Mad Dog says:
Bet I'm the only true Reverend in the game. It says so on the printout I got from an Internet site. |
Archon Stormrage
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 18:19:00 -
[5]
It certainly is a large problem, you don't need to explore as is if someone is already out there. Just go check the system out.
|
Hippey
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 18:59:00 -
[6]
I wrote about this to Hilmar as well, and really do agree that it should be taken off.
At best, it should be a bounty hunter only tool (once they implement bounty hunter licenses) for tracking pirates, that's it.
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Endorphin
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 19:21:00 -
[7]
I agree completely. I also think the station count should be taken out or regulated by skills.
Any time Im in a good system with a few people from my corp its swarmed several hours later by everyone and their mother. Then I have to go find another system and the process starts again
|
Valeria
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 19:29:00 -
[8]
I agree with this. It takes away a large chunk of the exploring factor... the game won't fail if they leave it in, but it'd be alot more interesting if they took it out or limited it greatly. |
Milnoch
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 19:35:00 -
[9]
Hrm I see the point yall are getting at. However the flipside of this coin is this. I use pilots in space to find which regions are heavily populated so I can setup production facilities to supply goods. No point in selling Bobble Head Dolls if all I can sell them to are the pirates and asteroids. If this feature IS removed or modified then I will definitly start screaming for the jump gate numbers to be re-implemented. That feature hasn't been working since 1022 along with a few of the other nifty options. Traders (and pirates) need to know where the people are. Also one can make the argument that there is some master system operating all the jump gates. Not all the difficult to monitor how many people enter and leave a system to calculate estimated people in system. So it might not be realistic at all to do away with it regardless of it's implications.
|
Stavros
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 19:44:00 -
[10]
its fine the way it is do not try and carebear it.
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Erty
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 21:38:00 -
[11]
This is a good idea.
However, I think that it would be smarter to give the Number of pilots in space-thing a radius...a border.
A smart thing would be that in empire space, you could see everything of the empire controlled area that you are in.00
So if you were in caldari space, you could se how many pilots there was in Lonetrek, The Citadel and The Forge.
If you were in Amarr space, you could see how many pilots there were in all the Ammar regions.
But, if you were outside empire space, you could just see how many people there were in the same constellation as youreslf.
This wouldn't sabotage for the traders/manufacturers, and it would help a bit with the rush for the bistot.
I don't think it's good to completely disable this thing, I mean...
You have to be able to find other people ffs! :>
This would also be easy to explain to the players: "The empires couldn't agree on the new conditions about control over ships, so now the computers that monitors this thing isn't intergalaxy-linked anymore" or something like that.
Sorry for the useless english, I'm very, very tired :)
This is my signature. |
N0sferathu
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 22:48:00 -
[12]
I fully agree ....
|
Halseth Durn
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 23:03:00 -
[13]
These are all good ideas.
Oberon-Inc FEAR MY EMOTICONS |
Aerin Osaa
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 23:52:00 -
[14]
i agree. not least since i was considering setting up a survey/exploration corp. Having the numbers visible only in empire controlled space seems the best option.
In response to whoever it was who made a point about factories etc, outside empire space, people will be MUCH more willing to travel, so just set up your factories wherever you consider convenient, and the customers will come to you.
|
Nexos
|
Posted - 2003.06.02 23:52:00 -
[15]
They could maybe change it from "Number of pilots in space" to "Number of pilots in station" that would make it easier to set up productions and such, if a corp is mining there most of there miners/pilots would be in space except for haulers.
Feels like a better approach to this problem for me.
|
Striker IV
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 00:16:00 -
[16]
I agree with Erty
Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
|
Seth Deckart
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 00:46:00 -
[17]
I totally agree, great ideas.
/me votes no for 'number of pilots in space - map setting'
|
Cazaril
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 00:59:00 -
[18]
If I was a pirate, Id love this feature. But since Im not, I agree ditch it !!
|
shaved tiger
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 03:04:00 -
[19]
agree, and skill based - is a nice addition, but means a lot of coding -> lot of bugs -> ...
just switch it off, and let ppl explore
________________
there is no bunny
|
Ronyo Dae'Loki
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 04:16:00 -
[20]
Agreed, non-Empire space should not show number of pilots.
-------------
My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Xandax
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 06:46:00 -
[21]
I agree with the fact that it shouldn't be displayed. Especially when the population is at the level it is now.
If a corp of medium and up in size explores the map and finds a good spot the "pilots in space" will light up as a christmas tree where they are now and others can see this instead of exploring.
As for the person saying he used it to set up production/trade, I can surly understand this, but I would still prefere it if people "stumpled"/explored their way around instead of using a feature telling you there are 20+ players in a certain constellation/sytems.
Due to wastness of space in this game should have a little more focus on exploration, and I feel the incentive to explore is somewhat limited with this function.
Just my oppinion :)
------------------------------------------------------------
Vis Consili Expers Mole Ruit Sua. |
Relic
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 06:47:00 -
[22]
I fully agree, such features should be limited by a skill, which in turn have a limited distance in AUs depending on the level of skill. Also I would say that the skill should be cheap but a Rank 4.
Relic
|
Jazzatola
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 09:56:00 -
[23]
But this is a PvP game. If you can't defend your belt then hard luck. I say leave the map as it is.
|
Xandax
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 10:43:00 -
[24]
It has little to do with PvP or defending "ones" asteroid belts as I see it.
I see it as a tool that rewards thoese that don't explore themselves, in regards of being able to simply look up and see where the most likely new resourcefind is.
I see little pratical reason for this feature, except as a tool to get players to "cram" together in systems.
It dimisishes the value of exploration as I see it, wich is why I don't think it should be in the game.
Edited by: Xandax on 03/06/2003 10:44:04
------------------------------------------------------------
Vis Consili Expers Mole Ruit Sua. |
Revolution
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 11:17:00 -
[25]
How hax is it going to be when people have level 5 agents who can tell you exactly where someone is in the eve-universe ;>
|
Madcow
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 11:57:00 -
[26]
I agree with it make it a skill thing.
______________________
I am just a crazy cow |
Seth Deckart
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 12:04:00 -
[27]
So many equal opinions on that.. seems that this feature is really ready to go away. CPP, may you just drop a message here, if you think about this?
|
wild Ari
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 12:12:00 -
[28]
agreed - remove the function, make it skill bases or whatever.
|
Kolben Vedda
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 14:40:00 -
[29]
I agree. Things that could affect whats visible could be security setting of a system and allegiance of the player and allegiance of a system
|
Roland Thompson
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 16:22:00 -
[30]
Not to disagree with the CEO...
So you're saying that if I send a bunch of pilots to an obscure system, you guys will all go there because you think the minerals are there?
Nice to know people are gullible ;) Would that I were an evil person, I might take advantage of that fact.
There are risks everywhere, I'd say this would be a good way to get some shooting between people. Just make sure you go heavily armed :)
Just a dissenting opinion.
-----
Shattered Star Confederation
The opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the SSC. |
Kaji
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 16:39:00 -
[31]
Maybe the map could show the number of players in low sec. systems in a more imprecise way, something like: there are ... players in low security regions. And for the "civilized" space it would show the number of players in each system precisely, as it is now. If a corp wants to monitor a low security system there could be a equipment like "spy sattelite" or "long range scanner". That would be interesting, an information war. |
cisco256
|
Posted - 2003.06.03 18:03:00 -
[32]
the option "players in space" is realy a joke for strategical game and should be removed for many reasons.
...the spice must flow... |
Bentguru
|
Posted - 2003.06.04 00:51:00 -
[33]
agreed. Empire space should show amount of pilots 2 help Manufacturing corps know the best places 2 sell their products. Non-claimed regions should not show
Also if a corp makes a Space Station naturally they should want 2 keep it's location secret. But players in the corp would also use it, and the map would be like a bright neon sign saying 'HERE IT IS! HERE! HERE!'
Edited by: Bentguru on 04/06/2003 01:02:54
|
Lucifer
|
Posted - 2003.06.04 07:23:00 -
[34]
The ability to see how many pilots are in each system is, quite simply, awesome. What a great little feature to add to the starmap. The game is so big, and played by so many people, that anyone worried about having their "secret little corner in space" uncovered are paranoid and need to relax.
|
Athule Snanm
|
Posted - 2003.06.04 11:11:00 -
[35]
I couldn't agree more with the last poster - the map showing pilot counts really makes the galaxy seem populated. Of course it opens some issues for people worried about being targetted, but I don't think these are so serious as to get rid of the functionality.
If it were to be restricted though these are the options I'd like to see:
1. You see #pilots in regions where you have agents, or within a region or two of where you have agents. I don't think it should be limited by the level of agent in the same way as tracking an individual character.
2. Station count is only shown for systems that you or your corp has visited. When players start building space stations, these should not appear until you have visited the system in question again.
Have fun
Finn
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
PsychoBitch
|
Posted - 2003.06.04 12:21:00 -
[36]
Frankly,
# pilots in space makes sense because they have to fly through a jumpgate which could also be a census device.
Number of stations in region also makes sense for an extrapolation of the same reasoning.
Offices for sale: http://www.grafweb.com/playboy/pb_offices.htm
Psycho*****
Chnnl: PLAYBOY
E-ml: [email protected]
|
Way Lander
|
Posted - 2003.06.04 16:51:00 -
[37]
I think the 'population' of pilots etc, should be removed. Griefers are using it to ruin gamers experience by collecting in a nearby system then waiting for the population to go up then warping in and disemating the smaller groups, they are using this to PK those less fortunate. It shouldn't be 'REAL Time' any of the discussions noted previous to this one didn't show any reason why the numbers couldn't be an average of the last 12-24 hours an average population would give you the same information and people couldn't necessarily abuse the information in real time to exploit issues that have been unaddressed.
|
Alkanine
|
Posted - 2003.12.14 23:02:00 -
[38]
MEGA! Bump 
|
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2003.12.14 23:12:00 -
[39]
 Quote:
This is a good idea.
However, I think that it would be smarter to give the Number of pilots in space-thing a radius...a border.
A smart thing would be that in empire space, you could see everything of the empire controlled area that you are in.00
So if you were in caldari space, you could se how many pilots there was in Lonetrek, The Citadel and The Forge.
If you were in Amarr space, you could see how many pilots there were in all the Ammar regions.
But, if you were outside empire space, you could just see how many people there were in the same constellation as youreslf.
This wouldn't sabotage for the traders/manufacturers, and it would help a bit with the rush for the bistot.
I don't think it's good to completely disable this thing, I mean...
You have to be able to find other people ffs! :>
This would also be easy to explain to the players: "The empires couldn't agree on the new conditions about control over ships, so now the computers that monitors this thing isn't intergalaxy-linked anymore" or something like that.
Sorry for the useless english, I'm very, very tired :)
yeah I agree with this idea I donŠt want to take it completely out of the game.
As for carebearing the map I think this would make a life much harder for most people.
__________
Capacitor research |
sSense Thade
|
Posted - 2003.12.14 23:27:00 -
[40]
I like the idea alot.
Makes perfect sense.
|
Lan2
|
Posted - 2003.12.14 23:35:00 -
[41]
remove it totally, or only show the pilots in empire controlled space.
I really like this idea.
|
Mr nStuff
|
Posted - 2003.12.14 23:53:00 -
[42]
You guys are silly... All jumpgates are networked toogether across the galaxy.. Every ship comes with a map sophisticated enough to gather the info on the number of players in each system using the data gathered on the jumpgate network. This is the way it will always be. Deal with it. Doesn't make sense to mask the number of players in the systems. There for this thread doesn't make sense.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 00:40:00 -
[43]
I could use the same logic to argue that showing 'ships/pods destroyed' is harmful to *my* line of work.
.
|
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 00:47:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 15/12/2003 00:47:31
Quote:
I could use the same logic to argue that showing 'ships/pods destroyed' is harmful to *my* line of work.
Well it is isnŠt it? Most people who have valuable cargo have the sense to check the map and avoid systems with many pods destroyed.
Ofcourse I never seem to see pirates camping in other than pretty well known camping spots so I donŠt really need the map to check it out 
__________
Capacitor research |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 00:49:00 -
[45]
... *coughs* 02/06/2003
let the poor ol' thread rest in peace, ok?..
|
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 00:50:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 15/12/2003 00:51:09
WOW that is an old thread
Edit: Ok IŠll stop poking it 
__________
Capacitor research |
voogru
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 01:34:00 -
[47]
I agree.
Pilots visible should only be in empire space.
-------
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage. |
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 01:36:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 15/12/2003 01:38:21
Idea Lab has a thread by me calling for the nerfing of the map, check it out.
Convert Stations
|
nails
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 03:08:00 -
[49]
I beleive eventually reguardless if CCP likes the idea or not, more systems need to be added to the game. There is usually at least 1 person in every single system in eve. Also all of the highway gate points are completely filled with people. Any given sunday and Amarr is a infestation of lag. People seem to be spreading out pretty well, the advanced players get out into the lower security systems, the newer players stay in empire space. If and when EVE ever gets to be EQ level of users, and some day actually gets 200,000 to log in the period of a day either the universe of EVE will need to be bigger, or the highway taken out, or something. I want this game to be a big success, and I know newer players think the game is gigantic, but the fact remains that you can pretty much get anywhere in the game in say 3 hours tops. Even without using MWDs or ABs.
I personally like the idea of something being so far away that it almost takes me a day to get there. Who knows, though at this point in the game even if there was space so distant there wouldn't be any stations to do anything at anyway lol.
------------------
http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 03:51:00 -
[50]
Really? I'm usually alone in my system.
Convert Stations
|
Serak Tur
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 04:28:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Serak Tur on 15/12/2003 04:28:56
I agree. My only foray into exploration was really little more than looking for the red dots on the map and then seeing what had attracted so many people.
However, skills that increase a limited map result are an excellent idea as they would still offer a way to see incoming attacks/counterattacks or blockades (for both pirates and non-pirates).
|
Naal Morno
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 15:19:00 -
[52]
Totally good idea.
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
|
EndersGame
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 15:33:00 -
[53]
I do not agree, with all the changes being made, lets not butcher another major aspect of this game. Secondly, for all those wanting it removed you must not read the backstory or the POW.
The whole purpose of CONCORD was so that information would be shared with all empires, ie you are linked to a cloning station, if when you die your memories is transported to your new clone via the hub of FTL routers that connect your ship, or the FTL router that is IN YOUR SHIP that then connects to a network providers FTL router, since they need a base pair, then of course it stands to reason that multiple sources will know where you are. You have the cloning facilities, you have the gate communications, and lastly you have the FTL router in your ship that you use to recieve messages etc...
It would be removing another feature that made sense all because people want to avoid player interactions.
I sadly have to agree with Stavros on this.
|
Zugg
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 15:53:00 -
[54]
Yep, needs to go. I see absolutely no rationality in being able to look at a map and see where every player currently playing is at in the game.
It makes it far too easy for pirates to simply go where they see players. Literally no hunting skill involved at all. Would it stop the pirates if removed? Only for the lazy ones or ones who lack a hunting ability. Any pirate worth a damn would still travel system to system and see who is in it locally by viewing local chat. Even then it still does not matter if the jump gates are camped leading in and out.
The same applies to the marketing reasoning. Number of stations or number of jumps in/out of the system combined with using the market supply/demand histories are more than enough to determine good locations.
The Dark Seraphs...like Hells Angels, but less hairy |
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 15:55:00 -
[55]
How about not nerfing it but introducing a module that allows you to not be seen on the map.
__________
Capacitor research |
csebal
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 16:00:00 -
[56]
Well, as many others have said it b4 me, it has to go, at least for non-empire space, or better 0.0 space.
Another fine reason are POS:
- If 'players in space' will still be active when POS get in, those trigger happy prats will have nothing else to do, than just check their map for larger player activity, and go there to destroy your investment. No intel ivolved in that.
Additionally, the scanner also has to go, or there has to be a way to counter it somehow. Currently its too easy to find out theres something hidden in a system, given you know the right techniques. After that its only a matter of time to go there.
(maybe a skill and luck based system could be used instead, so for example the scanner has a 50% base chance to find you, modified by your signature masking skill, the opponent's scanner skill, the signature radius of the item you are scanning for, the distance and the strength of the scanner)
Hell... there are too many things that should be changed to make EVE a better place.
Back to topic: 'Players in space' has to go, and 'Players docked' should go as well, especially if people docked on POSs will count into that.
-------------
This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
------------- |
csebal
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 16:02:00 -
[57]
Quote:
I could use the same logic to argue that showing 'ships/pods destroyed' is harmful to *my* line of work.
Yup, all stats but the basic stellar ones outside empire space should go.
Within empire space, theres a nice communication network to justify the stats.
-------------
This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
------------- |
Inm8
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 16:13:00 -
[58]
Nothing to add but to give my support to this idea.
Owner of a Lonely Heart |
Veruna Caseti
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 16:17:00 -
[59]
Sorry, it stays.
There's a reason this thread died 6 months ago when it was created. This idea sucks.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Khar'du
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 16:27:00 -
[60]
I do NOT agree.
I use the "number of people in space" feature regularly to avoid camps when they are relatively new.
I also use it to track pirate fleet movement (combined with jumps in the last..."-feature).
As far as it showing your newfound rare spawn/ore locations: that's what 0.0 is all about. Defend your locations if you must, otherwise you will only have a few days' advantage untill people find out by using the map and come to join the fun.
This is how it should be.
If you find a truly rare location, just make sure not to go there with 10 of your friends all the time.
(Cant imagine any location worth doing that atm. Unless you find bistot in a refine-station system or something. But then again, youll mine it out before the opposition gets there anyway).
Resources are here to be contested !
|
Ravenal
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 17:54:00 -
[61]
well, the whole idea of the ship tracking devices that are installed is to be able to ...uhm, track the ships.
theese tracking devices log your activity and interactions with the world around you and report it to CONCORD - else your sec status wouldnt go up, you wouldnt get bounty for killing pirates and you probably wouldnt be able to dock anywhere...at least not in empire space.
so, take care and think fondly of those CONCORD installed devices
...new sig coming up
Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it. |
Ravenal
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 17:58:00 -
[62]
at worst it should only display the number of pilots in space in your regions AND the regions you can go to from that region.
reasons like:
- you only need to know what you need to know
- you could pay for viewing more (not exacly a reason...but what the heck)
more of the same, it would be cool if fee was charged for using stargates...possibly only when travelling from one constellation to another
more fees for travelling the superhighway...
...new sig coming up
Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it. |
Kin Hanyerec
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 18:41:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Kin Hanyerec on 15/12/2003 18:43:28
last post : Way Lander Posted - 04/06/2003 16:51:00
ZOMBIE thread! 
|
FileCop AI
|
Posted - 2003.12.15 18:50:00 -
[64]
I couldn't disagree more. How would you check if there's a blockade in the system you are going through? How would you check where to go to find a fight (this is mostly for alliance vs alliance. We need this option.
Besides, once a rare location has been found and people go there, it's only fair other people can see where and go kill them if they want to ;)
FileCop AI of MASS
Co-CEO |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |