Not forever no, but you can hold them until concord rock up to shoot people.

I'm leaning towards removing the warp core strength on this mod to be clear. I dont think we need that and that a single point should be adequate.


ed: you bump so you can have multiple cracks at the same target/reduce the burden of coordination on the attackers. Organised defenders having a good counterplay to this is healthy, imo.

I've been a part of multiple freighter ganks, and we've NEVER bumped a freighter in a direction other than the one it's currently sailing at 1km/s. Stop asking CCP to change something that has a obvious solution/counter. This is not Hello Kitty Online.

I am intrigued by this idea that freighters, when bumped, start to randomly change direction mid-flight, making frigate alignment impossible.

A single scout/webber makes a freighter very difficult to catch. A tanked freighter escorted by a small logi/ECM fleet is essentially impossible to gank.

You cannot identify assist ships on busy gates in high sec

No you arn't, your plan calls for something that cannot possibly be countered.

But the reality is that freighter ganking happens so rarely. I just checked, and even Red Frog, the OP's corp, seems to think so. They quoted me a 5.5M ISK fee for a 4 jump trip through Uedama for 1B worth of goods.

Freighters, when bumped, no longer POINT in the direction you are traveling. This makes figuring out the actual direction of travel sufficiently difficult, at least as it applies to getting a warp out in place.

Again, for emphasis... this is a bumping thread, not a ganking thread (well, a thread about capital ship bumping and general warp counters).

Watching JFs get bumped and popped on a regular basis in highsec even though they literally have an instant GTFO IWIN button completely discredits any claims in this thread that this module would suddenly be the end or even the decline of freighter ganking in highsec.

For the record, RFF prices are averaged across all of our shipping across all of highsec. You can infer precisely nothing about the risk for that specific trip from the quoted price.

You don't need that.





This is tosh. Not only would the client not suffer from that much lag but bumping of freighters is to get the ship away from the gate guns. Bumping a ship from multiple directions does not work and is highly likely to result in the target simply warping off to a celestial.



Yes, its a counter, you stop it from happening in the first place.



Difference here is that there is multiple counters to bumping and ganking in general.

Another tactic is to suicide a nub ship into the freighter to pre spawn concord.

Thats not how freighter ganking works.

We already have multiple highly effective counters to freighter ganking, we do not need a no effort I win mod.

I think you should just list the multiple highly effective methods here and now and we'll be able to put this whole misconception to bed.

If you cannot figure out which way your ship is moving, the solution is not to add a module to the game.

If you cannot figure out which way your ship is moving, the solution is not to add a module to the game.

Just curious and this goes to posting useful information in a topic.

The direction you are facing is useless when you are being bumped.
The velocity indicator is useless as it only tells you speed not direction.
Stars and planets are worthless as they are to far away to be a valid reference at the low rates of speed involved.
You cannot rely on any ships in the area as a reference as you have no way of knowing if they are stationary or moving, unless of course they are an alt or friend of yours.
Gates could be a possible source of determining movement direction however their size and your slow movement speeds would make that extremely difficult.
We do not have the artificial horizons and other instruments currently used in real aircraft that could give us this information.
So with all of this perhaps you can explain to all of us just precisely what YOU use to determine speed and direction at any moment when you are being actively bumped around?

Because, naturally, no-one EVER brings a dictor or a hictor to a capital kill.....

Jesus christ if that actually worked dont you think a carrier would just refit to stabs and YOLO itself out trolling local all the while? Oddly, no-one ever does that...you know why? Because people use heavy/dictors and all the warp strength in the world doesn't matter an iota.

We have several times now. OP and their ilk don't like them because they require "effort".

Why do you not simply log off? once you're logged off there is nothing they can do to prevent you from disappearing in 60 seconds unless you already have a combat flag, but bumping doesnt give a combat flag.

Basically unless they suicide a ship into you at the start, they never have a chance.

Disposable alt in a ibis suicides. Doesn't cost too much.

The point of this thread (and the eve reality of the matter) - it's just too darn easy to suicide gank a capital hauler (freighter/jump freighter) with cheap crap ships in empire. There isn't really a counter once you are sellected. The only folks that escape are the instnaces where the gankers mess up.

You can assume I have an alt that has at times ganks freighters. You can assume that it is pathetically easy.

Black Pedro says stuff.

Ganking freighters is easy, and I'm not an F1. You assume too much. Pull the kb on this character and see what 2 weeks of math experiments accomplished against pimp marauders in Apapanke. Much more challenging to pull off and it took 3 of us 2 weeks to master it, profit over a billion isk and get bored of the process and move on. Getting a -10 character into a cat and getting him to a freighter doesn't require luck, sorcery or any particularly difficult manual dexterity. It's a rinse and repeat operation.

So here's the deal. I'm not asking for a marauder to have a better way to evade a suicide gank - they have plenty of options. I'm not asking for a way for a covetor or hulk to get away from a suicide gank - it's a small t1 or t2 mining ship and they have drones and the ability to sport a healthy tank - it's reasonable that 1 or a few guys in t1 fit destroyers can spank it with ease.

I'm saying that a billion plus isk capital class ship being taken down with no chance on its own to escape by a handful of t1 fit destroyers is unbalanced. That's why it's rampant in its occurance right now. The whole thing is OP in favor of the catalysts. (kind of like everyone flew drams when they were the cat's meow, or falcons when they were OP and so on)

You guys always drum the afk freighter pilot mantra so here's a counter. Give them a robust active tank. If they are afk as you say, then BOOM they are yours for the taking. If they are at the keyboard and activate their tank then make it work out that it costs a billion isk in catalysts to take down a billion isk freighter. That seems pretty OK to me.

It's cool that you compared ganking a freighter to catching a lone ratting carrier. They are practically the same except... hmmm...... oh yeah, the carrier has quite the tanking ability, quite the offensive capability and so on. You stating they are the same thing pretty much borks any credibility you have on this matter.

There is a clear reason why folks gank freighters in HS and they don't gank orcas in HS. It's because freighters are compartively easy. Do you have a better explanation? They are both capital class ships.

Except you're wrong. Here are some nice counters to ganks:
1) Use a JF. Jump out if you get bumped.
2) Webbing alt in a Hyena with a faction web for the range, or a Dramiel with a faction web.
3) Burn in the direction they are bumping you with a frigate or inty, warp freighter after 150km.
4) Don't move 20b in a single freighter.
5) Don't AFK haul.
6) Use a Proteus if you're hauling something like a bunch of implants.
7) Use bulkheads.

Bumping freighters is a little bit of a science. You have to make sure that you don't bump him towards a celestial that he can warp off to.
Adding bulkheads means more warm bodies. More warm bodies means less of a share for everyone. Less of a share for everyone means that the profit is lower. Lower profit means a lower chance of your freighter getting ganked. Don't get ganked. Use bulkheads.
I assume everyone who's on grid with my freighter is a potential ganker or scout.

Avoidance is not a counter to the mechanic of bumping. It's avoidance.

This isn't about safety ot ganking explicitly.

As for the doom and gloom hyperbole about IWIN buttons... the proposed module as described is incredibly weak as a mechanic.

I get that some people don't believe bumping needs a mechanical counter.

1. So basically don't use a freighter - Not a counter
2. It's easier to bump a capital ship before it's webbed off than it is to web off a cap before it's bumped (I do both frequently)
3. This just doesn't work - stop lying - Not a counter
4. Not a counter
5. Not a counter
6. Not a counter
7. You said it your self just below it - it doesn't change anything but some math - Not a counter

My point is that the ship itself has zero counter to it. Sure sure, bring friends blah blah. I'm ok w/ group game play, but I also think that a CAPITAL CLASS ship should have an installed counter to a noob in an ibis bumping him. I'm not asking for a free pass. I'm not asking for 99% survivablity. I'm asking for some chance greater than ZERO and you're telling me I'm unreasonable.

It makes it impossible to hold down a ship, thats a fairly massive I win button.



It has several that we have been repeatedly telling you about.