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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
Wadaya
Trailerpark Industries
21
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Posted - 2015.01.25 21:46:25 -
[91] - Quote
I may be way off base here, but removing attributes and having everyone train at the same rate. How does that even help any.?
All in all it seems just like it's a setup for offering "bonus xp runes" like the cash shops in f2p games somewhere down the road.
This is Eve, choices are supposed to matter. It even says so in all the game trailers, and now you want to remove consequences? Some people can't even remap because 8 years ago they chose to roll a character with 3 base charisma, and if you remap you are forced to add 2 to charisma because the lowest stat you can have is 5. People can live with it. No one is forcing anyone to buy implants, I know many people who don't even fit them.
This game is supposed to be harder and more complex than most games. Quit trying to dumb it down, it won't bring in more players, it will just keep alienating the ones you have left. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
573
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Posted - 2015.01.25 21:48:44 -
[92] - Quote
The entire skills system is nothing but a Skinner's Box. LOL @ people who think that training skills has any value/gameplay/skill involved. It is all a scam. There is no valid argument in favor of learning implants or attributes, it is simply complexity within a system that is designed solely to keep players subscribed. It is all a worthless time sink.
Get rid of attributes, get rid of learning implants, give everyone the current max SP/hour. Give all new players lvl 3 in all engineering and navigation skills while you're at it. Training a bunch of 5-20 minute skills to be able to fit basic modules is dumb. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
953
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Posted - 2015.01.25 22:06:32 -
[93] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:The entire skills system is nothing but a Skinner's Box. LOL @ people who think that training skills has any value/gameplay/skill involved. It is all a scam. There is no valid argument in favor of learning implants or attributes, it is simply complexity within a system that is designed solely to keep players subscribed. It is all a worthless time sink.
Get rid of attributes, get rid of learning implants, give everyone the current max SP/hour. Give all new players lvl 3 in all engineering and navigation skills while you're at it. Training a bunch of 5-20 minute skills to be able to fit basic modules is dumb.
COD is that way ---------> |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
42
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Posted - 2015.01.25 22:17:06 -
[94] - Quote
I'm of opinion that removing implants is a bad idea. You balance your learning speed vs. other implants that give more practical stats.
I do like the set implants, perhaps give us a +5 version of those.
But don't remove attribute implants, and certainly do not remove attributes all together. It's an important decision when you sit down to decide on next year's attribute mapping. |
Memphis Baas
86
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Posted - 2015.01.25 22:38:37 -
[95] - Quote
They should make Aura pipe up with "Excellent decision made, sir/madam. Excellent!" whenever you "sit down" to make this "important decision."
They should also make Aura snicker whenever you queue an off-plan skill. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15974
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Posted - 2015.01.25 22:46:34 -
[96] - Quote
Dracones wrote:Gregor Parud wrote: Remaps were added because the standard attribs were a) bad and b) gave you no options. And now you want to remove options again?
Pre-remap you had options. I choose to make this character industrial and when I wanted a combat character I choose to make one with attributes focused on that. These were meaningful choices with hard consequences, which you claim to love(BTW, both of these characters still have 3 bonus remaps). Removing attribute doesn't have to skunk options. There's no reason why learning implants couldn't focus on specific skill categories. A 10% Drones Learning Boost implant is a lot easier to understand some arcane combination of memory and perception. You can even make learning implants more interesting in other ways. Imagine Federation Navy implants from faction warfare LP stores that focus on Gallente ships and hybrid turrets. Or rare faction learning implants that focus on capital skills. Wormhole sleepers might drop implants that are related to learning T3 ships and systems.
That's a pretty neat idea
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
65
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Posted - 2015.01.25 22:48:17 -
[97] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:The entire skills system is nothing but a Skinner's Box. LOL @ people who think that training skills has any value/gameplay/skill involved. It is all a scam. There is no valid argument in favor of learning implants or attributes, it is simply complexity within a system that is designed solely to keep players subscribed. It is all a worthless time sink.
Get rid of attributes, get rid of learning implants, give everyone the current max SP/hour. Give all new players lvl 3 in all engineering and navigation skills while you're at it. Training a bunch of 5-20 minute skills to be able to fit basic modules is dumb. I agree If it wasnt for this worthless time sink i wouldve unsubscribed months ago .Bottom Line Removing Implants, Skills, and atributes will be good for our Pocket Books. I would rather use isk to buy ships and fly them right away and get into the fight than wait around training skills for implants.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
574
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Posted - 2015.01.25 23:10:17 -
[98] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:The entire skills system is nothing but a Skinner's Box. LOL @ people who think that training skills has any value/gameplay/skill involved. It is all a scam. There is no valid argument in favor of learning implants or attributes, it is simply complexity within a system that is designed solely to keep players subscribed. It is all a worthless time sink.
Get rid of attributes, get rid of learning implants, give everyone the current max SP/hour. Give all new players lvl 3 in all engineering and navigation skills while you're at it. Training a bunch of 5-20 minute skills to be able to fit basic modules is dumb. COD is that way --------->
I'm pretty sure most shooters these days also string players along with skills and unlockable weapons and such. The masses are easily placated if you meter out a pellet for them every now and then. Yum, artificial achievement! |
Eojek
Starlight Moly
51
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Posted - 2015.01.25 23:32:03 -
[99] - Quote
If I have my learning implants removed from the game, which I paid for in terms of time and effort, I would like to be able to learn just as quickly as if I had the implants. I would also expect to be compensated for the cost of those same implants. |
Lexia Nova
CybinSect
1
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Posted - 2015.01.25 23:38:18 -
[100] - Quote
Honestly as a player that has kept an eye on EVE for many years, I have been surprised recently on CCP`s desire to change EVE in many ways.
In some respect this is a much needed thing for the game. For instance, I was surprised to find out on return to the game that different levels of skill clone had gone! One of the bigger parts of the game removed that I did not expect but it probably was a good thing. Older players can now fly cheap small ships without fear of losing a 200, 300m+ clone just to keep the skillpoints in.
That being said, I am worried about CCP gutting too much of the risk / planning / investment aspects of the game too much further as if we make things too comfortable... EVE is slowly losing its harshness and key decision making that the game is so renown for.
So overall I will watch this space and see what happens. |
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Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
65
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Posted - 2015.01.25 23:53:14 -
[101] - Quote
Eojek wrote:If I have my learning implants removed from the game, which I paid for in terms of time and effort, I would like to be able to learn just as quickly as if I had the implants. I would also expect to be compensated for the cost of those same implants. Fair Enough And reasonable. Everybody will be Happy the New Players will get what they want and the Veterans will make alot of Plex.
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DaReaper
Net 7
1715
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Posted - 2015.01.25 23:55:36 -
[102] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Orlacc wrote:If what has been done to exploration is any example, I bet this happens. A lot of funds were wasted developing vaporware and the need for same is likely enormous. The orders are likely "get and retain new subs." At all costs.
And of course they are removing the mission refusal penalties for the "only PVE" crowd.
Oh well, I have seen other things I enjoy changed to the point where I stopped enjoying them. Sad though. Its going to be CU then NGE of SWG all over again
I keep hearing this... and its not been true thus far. People claimed wormhole change would kill eve.. hasn;t. People claimed pheobe changes would kill eve... hasn't. Hell people claimed isboxer changes would kill eve... 25 days later i have not noticed a huge drops in subs.. so hasn't
Stop making stupid claims and wait and see what ccp might do with something. This is the time to voice your feedback as to why a change might be bad and how to fix it, or how a change could be good but made better
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Tear Jar
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
303
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Posted - 2015.01.26 00:12:26 -
[103] - Quote
Celgar Thurn wrote:Apparently CCP/ the CSM are debating removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. I would like to raise the following issues with this possible action:
1) This idea seems to remove an additional element of risk to undocking in New Eden. I along with probably a lot of capsuleers do not like it when they are podded and have to replace implants & hardwiring but it is a part of the game. This idea follows the recent removal of medical clones which arguably was a good idea but I don't think we needed to go further than that change.
2) This change would be another kick in the pants to the missions system, mission/LP revenue and various career sub-options such as selling ore for storyline missions etc. I would argue that too many revenue ideas have been removed or made uneconomic already.
3) I feel this is another case of dumbing down of the game. Are we eventually going to get to a point where EVE Online is like many other MMOs where items are just collected within the game and nothing gets destroyed ?
I invite comments and ask whether people feel the attribute point & implants are a nice complication within the game or whether we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The problem with attribute implants is they punish you for living in null sec(or low sec to a lesser extent) but it's a trivial cost for a high sec mission runner.
I would prefer a monthly fee for the bonus. |
Talonikus
The Scope Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2015.01.26 02:08:01 -
[104] - Quote
The attributes themselves are useless. If you want to make PvP easier to understand, don't have 8 types of ammo for each turret type. That's just crazy :p |
The Connoisseur
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
21
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Posted - 2015.01.26 02:21:05 -
[105] - Quote
I don't see this as a bad thing at all. As it stands the quickest way to skill up efficiently is to not play the game and sit in a station with +4's/+5's to try to catchup in the sp rat race that so many new players see separating them from veterans. The game heavily rewards you for efficiency when it comes to your sp allocation, and attributes along with learning implants create a gameplay adversion, not a risk adversion. It is a system where the rich who do nothing win. EVE should be about fun risk, not a game of defend your mandatory learning implants so you can skill up fast enough to catch up and do what you want to do. I for one would love to not continue wasting jc timers and live by such in order to skill up at a decent rate. |
Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
66
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Posted - 2015.01.26 02:28:13 -
[106] - Quote
I say More Killing and Less Skilling.
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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
1110
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Posted - 2015.01.26 02:45:16 -
[107] - Quote
You are reacting to outputs. If they decide to remove implants then they are reacting to inputs. Maybe people should ask the question, "What information does CCP and the CSM have that would make them consider this?"
Think about it, the proposal would eliminate a consumable that burns isk. I am sure they would not consider this lightly.
This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Solops Crendraven
Solops Inc
67
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Posted - 2015.01.26 02:58:25 -
[108] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:You are reacting to outputs. If they decide to remove implants then they are reacting to inputs. Maybe people should ask the question, "What information does CCP and the CSM have that would make them consider this?"
Think about it, the proposal would eliminate a consumable that burns isk. I am sure they would not consider this lightly. Of course they wouldnt take this Lightly.They would do this as last resort . I wouldnt expect Them to shoot themselves in the Foot.
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Tear Jar
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
303
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Posted - 2015.01.26 05:14:11 -
[109] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:You are reacting to outputs. If they decide to remove implants then they are reacting to inputs. Maybe people should ask the question, "What information does CCP and the CSM have that would make them consider this?"
Think about it, the proposal would eliminate a consumable that burns isk. I am sure they would not consider this lightly.
The effect on lp and isk can be solved. CCP deals with isk inflation and deflation all the time. It shouldn't prevent the removal of attribute implants. |
Trey Kutoi
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Spaceship Samurai
39
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Posted - 2015.01.26 06:06:05 -
[110] - Quote
I screw around with +3s and hardwirings in lowsec because it doesn't really matter. |
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
273
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Posted - 2015.01.26 07:09:06 -
[111] - Quote
The argument of "risk/reward" is different when it comes to skill implants. Rewards as it applies to ships, modules and non-learning implants is of a temporary nature. If a player does not risk the more expensive ship, module or non-learning implant they are not affected at a later date. If a player does not risk the more expensive learning implant though - or chooses to use something like Slaves - they receive permanent repercussions for that decision.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Paynus Maiassus
Capital Munitions
223
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Posted - 2015.01.26 07:52:56 -
[112] - Quote
I like the current implant system and remapping.
If you want to get people to PvP with more clones, you could just remove the fact that you lose implants when you are podded. So your new clone wakes up with all it's implants.
This would still kill the implant economy, so I am not sure I am exactly for it. But it is an example of how the 'problem' of learning implants (discouraging PvP) could be circumvented without dumbing down the game.
I like attributes, remaps, implants - to include learning implants.
I do PvP. I do hate getting podded in an expensive clone. I still don't want learning implants to be removed.
I will not rage quit if they are removed. It's a tertiary issue overall. I don't think removing them will all the sudden make Eve players start PvPing. I also don't think removing them will ruin the game. It's really much ado about nothing. But just to put my two cents in, removing attributes, remapping, and learning implants will cost Eve some flavor. If it's problematic, replace it with something equally flavorful and not problematic. Don't just get rid of them. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
202
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Posted - 2015.01.26 07:59:24 -
[113] - Quote
If they remove learning implants now, what will happen to hardwire ones after? The arguments: "they are too expensive, new players can't afford them, we won't pvp when having them" are wrong from the begining. +5 implants (without attribute changing) add few days to the longest skills training, they have no impact on lowest level skill, which is most desire for new players. If players don't want to pvp in expensive learning implants they won't do it with hardwire ones. The problem is not the implants, it's the price of them. Also let's not forget we have more than one clone. Most of all CCP need to take a look at training mechanism, number of neural remaps etc.
"...genre is a definition, the definition in itself must have boundaries, the boundaries act as barriers, and the barriers are like walls, like the walls of a prisonn++..."
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
953
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Posted - 2015.01.26 08:02:09 -
[114] - Quote
The Connoisseur wrote:I don't see this as a bad thing at all. As it stands the quickest way to skill up efficiently is to not play the game and sit in a station with +4's/+5's to try to catchup in the sp rat race that so many new players see separating them from veterans. The game heavily rewards you for efficiency when it comes to your sp allocation. Attributes along with learning implants create a gameplay adversion, not a risk adversion. It is a system where the rich who do nothing win. EVE should be about fun risk, not a game of defend your mandatory learning implants so you can skill up fast enough to catch up and do what you want to do. I for one would love to not continue wasting jc timers and living by said timers in order to skill up at a decent rate.
There is no SP rat race, it's only an SP rat race if you want it to be or perceive it that way. What you're saying is nothing other than "we should all start at lvl 90, the levelling system is a rat race and frankly it's not important. The only important thing is the end game because I'm one of those people who want to min-max, but without the min and I just don't understand how one could do well without being maxed out". |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
1295
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Posted - 2015.01.26 08:19:11 -
[115] - Quote
Celgar Thurn wrote:Apparently CCP/ the CSM are debating removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. I would like to raise the following issues with this possible action: .
My thoughts on this.
No.
My in depth explanation - OH HELL NO. Attributes are there for a reason. Variety. Each attribute has a reason. Charimsa social/fleet. Intelligence - operations, and perception how to use the bloody thing. Implants are there to make up for our short comings when we want to focus on something but realize oh wait i need to hurry and do this.
So yeah, my thoughts leave them in.
Why Can't I have a picture signature.
Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
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LordZer00
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Spaceship Samurai
0
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:02:20 -
[116] - Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
The argument presented is a logical fallacy |
Trajan Unknown
Running with Dogs Nerfed Alliance Go Away
1
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:09:24 -
[117] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:Celgar Thurn wrote:Apparently CCP/ the CSM are debating removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. I would like to raise the following issues with this possible action:
1) This idea seems to remove an additional element of risk to undocking in New Eden. I along with probably a lot of capsuleers do not like it when they are podded and have to replace implants & hardwiring but it is a part of the game. This idea follows the recent removal of medical clones which arguably was a good idea but I don't think we needed to go further than that change.
2) This change would be another kick in the pants to the missions system, mission/LP revenue and various career sub-options such as selling ore for storyline missions etc. I would argue that too many revenue ideas have been removed or made uneconomic already.
3) I feel this is another case of dumbing down of the game. Are we eventually going to get to a point where EVE Online is like many other MMOs where items are just collected within the game and nothing gets destroyed ?
I invite comments and ask whether people feel the attribute point & implants are a nice complication within the game or whether we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. The problem with attribute implants is they punish you for living in null sec(or low sec to a lesser extent) but it's a trivial cost for a high sec mission runner. I would prefer a monthly fee for the bonus.
Well plus 5-¦s can be stored in a trainingsclone and if you can-¦t afford to lose +4-¦s well, use +3-¦s the difference isn-¦t that crazy. I burned through 3billions in implants since I went to nullsec. Avoiding being stupid (my case) and your implants will be relatively safe. Last but not least you should be wealthy in null-sec. So if you don-¦t be a - excuse me - killboard ***** it doesn-¦t matter to use and once in a while lose +3-¦s or +4-¦s. To finish this, I don-¦t think +5-¦s are worth it except you are planning something like training into capitals/super caps.
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Fu Qjoo
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
38
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:19:45 -
[118] - Quote
Can't wait to see this implant/skill/attribute crap go away. I will still be not smart enough to understand this game but every little thing helps. And please give autopvp/automine/autorat/autoincursion option. And autouse best blueprint please. One day the game will be dumbed down enough so I might even undock my ship (please make undock button bigger). Anyone knows how I can board my ship btw? |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
953
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:32:37 -
[119] - Quote
Fu Qjoo wrote:Can't wait to see this implant/skill/attribute crap go away. I will still be not smart enough to understand this game but every little thing helps. And please give autopvp/automine/autorat/autoincursion option. And autouse best blueprint please. One day the game will be dumbed down enough so I might even undock my ship (please make undock button bigger). Anyone knows how I can board my ship btw?
Start a thread on how we all really should start in titans, fitted and ready, without even having to board them. Sure, they'll have to adapt the career tutorial to "blap these NPC dreads" but it'll be worth it.
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Leannor
Central Builders Incorporated Northern Associates.
69
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:33:46 -
[120] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:My opinion is: of all the things that they can do to get people to PVP more even if they don't want to, it's not one of the worst. I would undock more if there were no attribute implants to worry about. I would also train differently if all the skills trained at whatever max rate we have when properly remapped. And I'm a carebear, so the PVP'ers would have an increasingly target-rich environment. Yes, the game is changing, and it remains to be seen whether it's ultimately for the good or the bad. CCP does go ahead and do whatever they want, so basically we can complain about changes but ultimately we can't really prevent them. Quote: Eve needs risk to be Eve else it becomes just another run of the mill MMO.
Oh, it has a ways to go yet, considering that you don't lose your armor when you die in most current MMO's.
don't have implants then ... or have a local clone without them ...
for those that have spent billions on implants, I hope they will be getting recompensed!
"Lykouleon wrote:
STOP
TOUCHING
ICONIC
SHIP
PARTS"
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