Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 39 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1882
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 02:02:27 -
[31] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:RUMOR...in the subject line....point of the OP...RUMOR...(bears repeating) RUMOR??? Okay. I'll say it. This move would be so radical and would flush so much investment by so many thousands of players down the toilet, that it may be wise to hold off on SPECULATION and RUMOR (there, I said it again). Should CCP be actually planning such a move, I think they'd run it past us first...like months in advance, just because of the SHOCK involved. RUMOR? FORUM...RUMOR?? HINT HINT Amazingly Learning Implants are very easy to compensate people for. Additionally there is no reason they would need to spend months running it past us. It's a very simple and obvious result that would happen, not complex at all. Peoples reactions in terms of risk taking is a little harder. But certainly some people would PvP a little more. Clone removal appears to have had a minor up tick after all. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
156
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 09:50:09 -
[32] - Quote
I'm still personally against the idea of removing attribute/learning implants and the ability to target attributes so learning can be done quicker.
Several people have noted that if/when the attribute/learning implants are removed from the game that we will have more slots available to use to increase other in-game capabilities. The trouble with this is 'powercreep' so inevitably the strengths of the hardwiring would have to be halved to compensate. Then we would be paying probably double the ISK on hardwiring and/or implants to get back to where we are atm. Similar to what happened with industry where we had decent skills to alleviate 'waste' which were changed and 'teams' were brought in. Paying twice for the same thing.
So I would say if we were to lose the learning implant slots then it would be better to just have five slots for the hardwirings and lose the ten slot option. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
156
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 09:52:36 -
[33] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Vyl Vit wrote:RUMOR...in the subject line....point of the OP...RUMOR...(bears repeating) RUMOR??? Okay. I'll say it. This move would be so radical and would flush so much investment by so many thousands of players down the toilet, that it may be wise to hold off on SPECULATION and RUMOR (there, I said it again). Should CCP be actually planning such a move, I think they'd run it past us first...like months in advance, just because of the SHOCK involved. RUMOR? FORUM...RUMOR?? HINT HINT Amazingly Learning Implants are very easy to compensate people for. Additionally there is no reason they would need to spend months running it past us. It's a very simple and obvious result that would happen, not complex at all. Peoples reactions in terms of risk taking is a little harder. But certainly some people would PvP a little more. Clone removal appears to have had a minor up tick after all.
We have jump clones to alleviate risk already. With the new skills the changeover time is reduced. With the medical clones gone now I don't see a real problem. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
31954
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 09:58:50 -
[34] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.
Also remove all other implants. Also remove boosts.
Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage. Remove all ships except 1. Modules too.
Just 1 ship and a single fit in the game.
Exciting stuff.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1481
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 10:01:55 -
[35] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.
Also remove all other implants. Also remove boosts.
Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage. Remove all ships except 1. Modules too. Just 1 ship and a single fit in the game. Exciting stuff. Velator4Lyfe |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
671
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 10:11:33 -
[36] - Quote
The impression I got was absolutely nothing was said about learning implants. Sure, attributes may be going the way of the dodo (and possibly good riddance), but that doesn't mean implants have to (just change them to a % training time on certain skill categories, and voila).
I do love how at the slightest whiff of a change the posters who get a dose of the greedy. You can see which posters have got star filled eyes, fully expecting everyone to be upgraded to the training speed of fully-specialised remaps with +5s as standard. Personally, I hope for a more "average" levelling out if something where to occur, give the average guy (who runs with +3s maybe 50% of the time, and occasionally trains a skill off-remap) a nice buff, but the forever-docked in full +5s get a speed nerf. |
Genevieve Bluecoat
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 10:12:43 -
[37] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:I just dont see implants going anywhere personally.
Its this whole level of money that gets removed from the game constantly or as some call an isk sink.
Since many implants are earned through mission rewards, there is no isk removed from the game when they are created as objects. The only time implants act as an isk sink is where the implant is acquired from a Loyalty Point store in which isk is used as part of the purchase price. As such, they're not particularly effective isk sinks and I would suspect this is not a major reason to keep them.
Clone costs were a much more effective isk sink, and those were removed. |
Genevieve Bluecoat
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 10:14:36 -
[38] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:The impression I got was absolutely nothing was said about learning implants. Sure, attributes may be going the way of the dodo (and possibly good riddance), but that doesn't mean implants have to (just change them to a % training time on certain skill categories, and voila).
But this change would be completely pointless. If attributes are removed then it just means they're being glossed over and game play remains unaltered - and people would still feel obliged to buy these implants early in place of, you know, having fun.
|
Nalia White
Tencus
62
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 11:27:58 -
[39] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.
Also remove all other implants. Also remove boosts.
Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage.
that's the right mindset for playing eve right there folks!
we should even remove all the graphics and stuff. who needs more than a dot and two lines on each side to play video games? |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
953
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 11:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Just as lazy carebears start "wouldn't it be better if we'd just remove [action that requires 3 braincells] or [allowing random people into your mission] or [forced PVP] threads, other lazy risk averse people start "wouldn't it be better if we'd remove implants and attributes, we'd surely start pvping more". And they always try to sell it as "it would be better for the game" while they actually mean "it would be better for me, because I'm lazy". It's always obvious, it's always hilarious.
Attributes are FINE and allow you to make choices, choices which have pros and drawbacks; if you choose to focus your attribs then you choose to not train fast outside that focus. If you don't like that then don't choose a focussed remap. A simple case of "actions have consequences" and the more consequences you remove from the game, the less it remains EVE.
People want to have their cake and eat it, and they'll come up with amazingly "well thought out " (lol) reasonings and logical posts as to why they should be allowed exactly that. NO! |
|
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1938
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 12:17:40 -
[41] - Quote
Solops Crendraven wrote:Celgar Thurn wrote:Apparently CCP/ the CSM are debating removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. I would like to raise the following issues with this possible action:
1) This idea seems to remove an additional element of risk to undocking in New Eden. I along with probably a lot of capsuleers do not like it when they are podded and have to replace implants & hardwiring but it is a part of the game. This idea follows the recent removal of medical clones which arguably was a good idea but I don't think we needed to go further than that change.
2) This change would be another kick in the pants to the missions system, mission/LP revenue and various career sub-options such as selling ore for storyline missions etc. I would argue that too many revenue ideas have been removed or made uneconomic already.
3) I feel this is another case of dumbing down of the game. Are we eventually going to get to a point where EVE Online is like many other MMOs where items are just collected within the game and nothing gets destroyed ?
I invite comments and ask whether people feel the attribute point & implants are a nice complication within the game or whether we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. Im For It !
I agree. Get rid of that nonsense. I'll still use various hardwiring so there would still be a risk with some of my clones. I'm certain that I would undock much more often in risky situations, especially using my higher sp clones. |
Memphis Baas
82
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 12:28:51 -
[42] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:And they always try to sell it as "it would be better for the game" while they actually mean "it would be better for me, because I'm lazy".
Oh no, I'm fully in the "it would be better for me" camp, but laziness has nothing to do with it. I'm risk-averse, sitting in station not undocking, because I have exactly 18 more days of train 2 chars on 1 account left, and the skills fit exactly in this time frame, so losing my +3's would cost me a whole another plex (to extend dual training).
With the change, CODE would get soo many more potshots at me and my full industrial. But right now they'll have to wait 18 days.
Anyway, that's my selfish reason. Did understanding it make a difference in your opinion?
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
953
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 12:49:32 -
[43] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:And they always try to sell it as "it would be better for the game" while they actually mean "it would be better for me, because I'm lazy".
Oh no, I'm fully in the "it would be better for me" camp, but laziness has nothing to do with it. I'm risk-averse, sitting in station not undocking, because I have exactly 18 more days of train 2 chars on 1 account left, and the skills fit exactly in this time frame, so losing my +3's would cost me a whole another plex (to extend dual training). With the change, CODE would get soo many more potshots at me and my full industrial. But right now they'll have to wait 18 days. Anyway, that's my selfish reason. Did understanding it make a difference in your opinion?
That is such a fringe situation it's not even funny and probably made up. |
Winter Archipelago
Furtherance.
340
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 12:58:11 -
[44] - Quote
While I would be for the removal of attribute points and remapping, I think that attribute implants should stay. They give a bit of a bonus for the Risk vs. Reward out there, and are no different from combat-related implants.
The implants give a bonus when they're used, just like combat implants do. You aren't being penalized when you don't use them, you just aren't getting the bonus from them.
Gregor Parud wrote: That is such a fringe situation it's not even funny and probably made up.
It's a stretch, but it's a real situation. There are a few basic alt skillplans (such as PI or basic research) that can be squeezed into a barely-sub-15-day plan, so you could create two alts on one account using a single 30-day dual-training.
Those types of characters, however, tend to be in the "no reason to ever undock" or "almost worthless until they're actually finished" categories. So while it's a real situation, the characters in question will probably either never undock, anyway, or will only be worth undocking once their final skills are trained, which means that the removal of remaps and / or implants wouldn't really affect them, anyway.
Ransoms are accepted in Isk, Mods, Ships, and Dolls.
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
953
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 13:12:40 -
[45] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:While I would be for the removal of attribute points and remapping, I think that attribute implants should stay. They give a bit of a bonus for the Risk vs. Reward out there, and are no different from combat-related implants. The implants give a bonus when they're used, just like combat implants do. You aren't being penalized when you don't use them, you just aren't getting the bonus from them. Gregor Parud wrote: That is such a fringe situation it's not even funny and probably made up.
It's a stretch, but it's a real situation. There are a few basic alt skillplans (such as PI or basic research) that can be squeezed into a barely-sub-15-day plan, so you could create two alts on one account using a single 30-day dual-training. Those types of characters, however, tend to be in the "no reason to ever undock" or "almost worthless until they're actually finished" categories. So while it's a real situation, the characters in question will probably either never undock, anyway, or will only be worth undocking once their final skills are trained, which means that the removal of remaps and / or implants wouldn't really affect them, anyway.
It's the same with remaps. You're not being penalised if you use a well rounded attrib remap but you get a bonus if you go for a focussed one. So you just answered that one yourself.
So, the main reason to completely change the game and lose "choices have consequences" is because some random alts will have it easier? How is that in any way a valid reason. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 13:18:15 -
[46] - Quote
If it aint broke, dont fix it (or in this case stuff around with it). There are other things that need attention in EVE. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
674
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 13:32:46 -
[47] - Quote
please no... I would rather have learning skill books back then have them make this change.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
|
Red Teufel
Mafia Redux
416
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 13:33:16 -
[48] - Quote
I think it will just give more gameplay options for the players. CCP is removing the bull with the intent to give you better options and more content. So don't be upset. The good bit is about to happen when sov is revamped. I expect some crazy fun in null soon. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 13:56:54 -
[49] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:I think it will just give more gameplay options for the players. CCP is removing the bull with the intent to give you better options and more content. So don't be upset. The good bit is about to happen when sov is revamped. I expect some crazy fun in null soon.
How does removing implants etc give more game play options. At the end of the day, if you dont want to use them then dont plug them in. Then you can fly and die as many times as you want.
Removing them hoping that people will do more PVP is stupid. |
Celise Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 14:21:35 -
[50] - Quote
Please no take my Implants ...
On another note... I don't mind if they remove the learning stats, but i do love my High-grade Crystal set, still need to collect the other sets at some point. Collection ***** thats me & likes all things bling
EVEBoard ...Just over 18million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
|
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
953
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 14:21:40 -
[51] - Quote
Incestuous Criticism wrote:Red Teufel wrote:I think it will just give more gameplay options for the players. CCP is removing the bull with the intent to give you better options and more content. So don't be upset. The good bit is about to happen when sov is revamped. I expect some crazy fun in null soon. How does removing implants etc give more game play options. At the end of the day, if you dont want to use them then dont plug them in. Then you can fly and die as many times as you want. Removing them hoping that people will do more PVP is stupid.
You read that all wrong, what he actually said was "this will make it a lot easier for me, fck the game. I want things easy, without effort and instant. I just tried to make it sound as if I had a valid reason". |
72inches
Trans Secunda Nulli Secunda
4
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 16:11:41 -
[52] - Quote
Celise Katelo wrote:...i do love my High-grade Crystal set, still need to collect the other sets at some point. Collection ***** thats me & likes all things bling
The 'collector motif' that exists in many mmo playstyles is the reason i suspect implants will not be removed from the game as its a valid support to the genre.
I would really enjoy the earlier rumours (this was a loooong time ago) of them being able to be salvaged from a corpse comes true one day that would be awesome.
|
Shayla Sh'inlux
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
50
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 16:40:55 -
[53] - Quote
I've suggested years ago to remove learning implants because all they do is make people more risk-averse.
PvP is blobby and gank-based for many reasons, and learning implants are one of those reasons. Yes, you can function perfectly without, but fact is that using them gives you a non-insignificant bonus in the only thing in Eve that you cannot get with isk - skillpoints. In general, people will use learning implants and are thus risk-averse.
The same thing for remaps. While I concur the current system is a TON better than the original one, you still lock people into training a certain subset of skills for a year at the time, unless they want to penalize themselves for cross-training. Especially with higher ranked skills, the difference in training time is not measured in hours, but in days. In a game where skillpoints basically cost money is it strange that most people will want to get the most sp/hr they can possibly get?
The best thing that could happen, IMO, is:
- Remove all attributes altogether. They make no sense, do not have any effect on what your character can do and how well he or she can do it. They only determine how long it takes before he or she can do it. They are basically only in the game because every MMO/RPG has them, but unlike in those games, a PvP trained character does not do more damage because he has a higher perception and a trader character does not pay less market fees because his charisma is high.
- Make training speed static. Maybe just set it at whatever the current max is with +5 implants, or use a nice and round number like 2500 SP/hour (that is about what you get with +3's). Make it impossible to increase this training speed (except for maybe the new player implant) so that everyone trains at the same speed and every skill trains at the same speed.
- Remove attribute implants. Replace said attribute implants with a TON of new and exciting (and useful!) hardwiring implants. All of which of course are destroyed upon clone death.
There. Better game.
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
953
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 16:57:44 -
[54] - Quote
Shayla Sh'inlux wrote:I've suggested years ago to remove learning implants because all they do is make people more risk-averse.
Shayla Sh'inlux wrote:Replace said attribute implants with a TON of new and exciting (and useful!) hardwiring implants. All of which of course are destroyed upon clone death.
Ah right, so you want to remove learning implants because it makes ppl risk averse and replace... them... with other implants which... somehow don't make people risk averse.
Are you really sure you're not lying and just want a flat learning speed without having to deal with bad choices in regards to your own remaps, or perhaps want almost full learning speed without the risk? Because your logic makes no sense. |
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 17:18:56 -
[55] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:My opinion is: of all the things that they can do to get people to PVP more even if they don't want to, it's not one of the worst. I would undock more if there were no attribute implants to worry about. I would also train differently if all the skills trained at whatever max rate we have when properly remapped. And I'm a carebear, so the PVP'ers would have an increasingly target-rich environment. Yes, the game is changing, and it remains to be seen whether it's ultimately for the good or the bad. CCP does go ahead and do whatever they want, so basically we can complain about changes but ultimately we can't really prevent them. Quote: Eve needs risk to be Eve else it becomes just another run of the mill MMO.
Oh, it has a ways to go yet, considering that you don't lose your armor when you die in most current MMO's.
You can create a clone with no implants and go pvp all you want now. Or join a corp with a ship replacement program....but I am sure there will always be a reason why not to pvp. Just accept pvp is not your thing. Its a sandbox, all play styles are welcome.
Those who want to pve are doing so. Those that want to pvp are doing so. Those that like to do both are doing so.
But no amount of change will force those who want to pve to pvp. All it would do is force CCP to make changes to try and entice which would just **** off the pvp'rs. Which is funny because the change was made to get pve players to pvp like the pvp players want.
Puts on TinFoil Hat of Conspiracy: This sounds more like an agenda to try lower training time by linking new player/carebear retention to it...aka carebears avoid pvp because of implants. |
Mag's
the united
18827
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 17:32:31 -
[56] - Quote
Can anyone point to the source of this rumour please? I've just skimmed through CSM 9 2014 minutes, but couldn't see it there. Although I may have missed it, of course.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3093
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 17:40:51 -
[57] - Quote
Implant slots 1 through 5 will still be used, just used for implant sets. As they are quite expensive, death will still have meaning.
CCP is sensitive to the three "creeps": power creep (new ships and modules making old ones irrelevant), cost creep (inflation) and complexity creep (expansions slowly make the game more complex and less accessible to new players). Removing the attribute system allows introduction of complexity elsewhere, in a future expansion.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 17:58:20 -
[58] - Quote
Complexity...... so what you are trying to say is that EVE is to complex for new players.
So how did you go starting at EVE, Im sure at one stage you were a new player. Was it implants that you found difficult, or maybe the plethora of modules and different fits that were possible. Maybe you couldn't find your way out of your starting system, didn't know how to mine.
If having implants as part of this game that boosts training times (because they wont get rid of skills) or increase damage, speed etc is to complex then OMG, it is starting to prove a theory I have... "There are too many dumb people in this world"
So instead of taking out implants and dumbing it down lets look at the real issue. New player experience. Explaining and helping a new player with the different levels of complexity. Yes I am an ALT. My main belongs to a null-sec corp and joining a corp was the best thing I did because expereince players said, if your going to die, don't worry about implants.
Yes clone up, put a set of implants in a clone that when I am holidays can sit there and train some skills faster.
In relation to people being risk adverse. Did a quick look at zkillboard. Just on the first page that I look at there were 11 pod kills. Null-sec had 6 all with no implants (because most people who fly null-sec are smart, they know they die and generally don't worry) Low-sec had 8 pod kills 3 with implants and 5 with no implants High-sec had 1 pod kill with implants
Now that was just a quick look and from what I could see there were a crap load of pod kills.
|
Nevase Prometeus
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 18:20:49 -
[59] - Quote
In my point of view I think the best way is CCP should make some options for each players to decide their play style. Nobody should told anybody that this style of playing is right this style is wrong. If CCP still hold on theier concept that EVE is a sandbox game.They should give that decisions for players to decide.
But Sandbox concept is not let players doing anything they want without any responsibity. I just hope CCP might keep EVE in terms of responsibilty to any enjoyments should not come from another players's tear and sadness . Enjoyments from that is like bullying . I think no one like to be Bullied so CCP might looking for that kind of fun with cautious.May be like make option for players who just need only PVE and don't want to PVP. When player declare themself that they don't want to PVE another players should understood and respect not to violate their rights. If anyone violate that it sound like violate in anothers player rights or humanrights too.
|
Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
35098
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 18:26:18 -
[60] - Quote
oh look, it's that B word again |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 39 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |