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Bloggers #35, Clover discusses invention and monsters

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
James Potkukelkka BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.28 23:58:00 - [61] is it possible to get T2 large smartbombs now?
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.29 01:42:00 - [62] DEVS you have missed something, currently a agent has a chance to give out a t2 bpo, so some of us went and worked for 0.0 agents, now i assume the datacores will all be pretty standard, so people like me who have reserch agents in 0.0 need to get in and out to cash in, yet others will have the same datacores given to them by agents in secure space. i hope that the lower sec and 0.0 agents give out a lot more datacores than the carebare agents!!! and not something crap like 10% more or the first thing i do when kali hits is cash in the RP and move agent! -- Imperial College London FTW --
Xasz Caldari Unemployment Office	Posted - 2006.09.29 03:02:00 - [63] Neat. It'd be cool if the pictures were mirrored, though.
DigitalCommunist Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.29 03:11:00 - [64] Invention sounds pretty cool to me, makes me secretly wish I was carebear ! One can assume from this blog that people hoarding encryption method skills (which are already stupid-expensive) will become filthy rich come Kali, if their drop rate isn't slightly boosted since every industry char in EVE will want them. The bpcs for data interfaces will also sell for quite a bit. The harvesting of data cores is going to be most important. In my opinion the only source of data cores in high sec should be R&D agents.. the ones found via exploration should be in low or 0.0 sec. Its a good opportunity to get people out of empire :) Regarding the risk, looks like 5-10mil per hac (since it takes a ship) and probably 20-30mil per CS bpc.. so thats roughly 33% of build cost. Sounds fair to me. T2 producers will still have a significant profit edge, but prices will crash from their currently ridiculous amounts. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Riley Craven Caldari Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.29 03:28:00 - [65] Originally by: DigitalCommunist T2 producers will still have a significant profit edge, but prices will crash from their currently ridiculous amounts. I hope this is the case but I have my doubts. It wont make any since for someone to invest in invention and then further sell at reduced costs. People are willing to pay these prices because they want the ships bad enough. Supply would have to be drastically upped and ships would have to stop selling so that sellers would have incentive to drop prices to sell their ships. As this probably wont be the case, the t2 profits game will just spread to a few more people.
RipLee The Shepherd's Chapel Nexus	Posted - 2006.09.29 04:27:00 - [66] I also can't get the flowchart picture to load. My first concern as I tried to understand what the system will require is the fact that there are not enough Science & Industry open copy slots now, How is one going to get a copy if they don't have it already? Don't forget, trying to find a Research slot to ME a BPO is next to impossible in any timely fashion as most are booked up for weeks. One would think after I sold the 10,000th Miner One I manufactured, I'd figure out a better product Like a Miner II. Nope, thatÆs not now invention will work in Eve. IÆm gona need to buy more skills and follow other procedures .. sheesh.. CCP.. Manufacturers and inventors should be appreciated and encouraged, we load the universe with Crystals, with Abs with MWDs with expanders.. We pay Rent, we make large investments We pay taxes to do this service. And we stock some items that never sell of which we must eat or recycle at a loss. Oh well.. such is the life of a builder in Eve. RipLee .. Eletta system.. 250 T1 BPO in collection Eletta VIII Moon 19 University Store Manager.. Over 230 different items on sale at greatly reduced prices. Minerals always needed
Deitre Cibrus Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.29 05:27:00 - [67] I was able to download the pictures, and here's the link of eve-files. I'll take any ISK donations http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0609/clover_finaldesign.PNG http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0609/clover_DCX.PNG ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing?
Valeo Galaem InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 05:40:00 - [68] Dear God.. Please keep Clover as far away from the art department as possible. Thar be Pirates You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe Your Wallet has been emptied! CONCORD Encryption
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.29 05:44:00 - [69] Any module does that mean we will be seeing t2 expanders and shield power relays? --- CCP how about the pith X & A mods? "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Pizi Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.09.29 06:30:00 - [70] hmm looks great but isnt it a bit to work intensive ? why do i need 2 datacores ?? a data interface that drops somwhere in a hidden plex the encryption skills (hard to get) and a lottery winner sits on his ... doin nothing and gets all the fun i hoped i can catch up a bit with hard work and invention but from my understanding it doesnt look like _______________________________________________ EVEpedia [Deutsch/German] Say no to BMs
Darksceptre Gallente Solaris Federation	Posted - 2006.09.29 06:51:00 - [71] Great blog but the pictures dont load
Savio Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:02:00 - [72] Edited by: Savio on 29/09/2006 07:02:22 Sounds cool, wonder if we now can get unseded tech 2 stuff through invention.. Oh also the pictures dident load..... . Need a Sign? Click Here
Pizi Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:16:00 - [73] pic 1 pic 2 _______________________________________________ EVEpedia [Deutsch/German] Say no to BMs
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:27:00 - [74] Wow, did anyone really think for a moment that the Invention system was supposed to let you "catch up" with BPO owners? Good job, I'm looking forward to this!
Wild Rho Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Helison Originally by: Joerd Toastius So... prototype cloaks. I¦m also very curious about how these inventions will work with cloaking devices. As there are nearly BPCs of prototype cloaking devices available, what will be your solution? And how will it be possible to invent covert ops cloaking devices? Same here, have any of the devs realised this is the one area of T2 poduction that isn't going to be changed by this and do they plan to do anything about it? I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:38:00 - [76] Edited by: Sabahl on 29/09/2006 07:38:38 MAJOR PROBLEM DETECTED Quoted from the blog... Quote: The ME, PE and the number of runs in the target (Tech II) BPC depends on the stats on the Tech I BPC you used, but are much, much worse. This can however be slightly modified by Decryptors. This is wrong. Completely and utterly WRONG! Many Tech 2 BPOs, and I am thinking specifically of the ships although there may be others, have extremely high ME and PE research times and so considerable investment has been put into getting even single levels of PE or ME. However, the tech 1 equivalent BPOs have been around for far longer and have far lower research times. As such there is a flood of very high ME and PE BPCs available for these items. If the ME and PE of the invented BPCs is dependent upon the ME and PE of the source Tech 1 BPC then the result will be counter to that which is intended, i.e. invention will produce vastly superior BPCs to those available from the BPOs, even with severe penalties to the starting ME and PE levels. IMO the only way to counter this will be to fix invented BPCs at ME and PE 0 and have done with it. For every major game state change there is at least one major screw up with BPs (Go Live - unlimited BPC creation instead of just 3 copies max. Shiva - Tech 2 lottery). PLEASE don't let this be the one for Kali. MEGALOTTERY Now Open! Win a TITAN BPO!!! Poor bard, I must give you a cookie!- Tirg
Pantheon Lea Farmer Boyz	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:44:00 - [77] Quote: These skills are already in the game, but currently are associated with pirate factions (i.e. Angel Encryption Methods). Once Revelations hits the street these skills will be associated with the empires instead (so Angel Encryption Methods becomes Minmatar Encryption Methods). This does not affect those that already have the skill. It does not affect them, huh ? They will be the only ones able to produce the BPC's given as rewards from COSMOS agents, a whole new league of untouchable tycoons. COSMOS agent runners, both current and future ones will have enough blue toilet paper in stock till patch after kali arrives... Tell me this is not true, because running COSMOS missions will be a non profit thing then ? Pantheon Lea
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.29 07:59:00 - [78] Originally by: Pantheon Lea Quote: These skills are already in the game, but currently are associated with pirate factions (i.e. Angel Encryption Methods). Once Revelations hits the street these skills will be associated with the empires instead (so Angel Encryption Methods becomes Minmatar Encryption Methods). This does not affect those that already have the skill. It does not affect them, huh ? They will be the only ones able to produce the BPC's given as rewards from COSMOS agents, a whole new league of untouchable tycoons. The skill is only getting a name change, itll still drop from cosmos... ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Vaslav Tchitcherine Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:16:00 - [79] Originally by: Sabahl If the ME and PE of the invented BPCs is dependent upon the ME and PE of the source Tech 1 BPC then the result will be counter to that which is intended, i.e. invention will produce vastly superior BPCs to those available from the BPOs, even with severe penalties to the starting ME and PE levels. I assume you missed the bit where he said "much, much worse"? Or are are you making the argument that he should, in fact, have said "much, much, much worse"? v. jf
Pedo Fortis	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:23:00 - [80] What will be the "Number of runs" for the BPC? If after all that work I get a one run BPC .... Pedo
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:33:00 - [81] Now I am mighty depressed :( Like the idea inventing require a lot of skill, and high levels of them, but I see some problems: 1) The blog: "A little extra on the Data Interfaces – they are not available on the market, you need to harvest the BPCs, skills and ingredients to build them from profession sites in the game (these sites will be hidden and need to be scanned for using the new exploration system). On a side note, the same profession sites can also be harvested to get Datacores, Decryptors, skills and other relevant stuff." This kills the option for all small corporation or single players interested in invention. The sites will be discovered in the first week and camped by some big alliance. End of invention for the small players. 2) There are a lot of tech level 1 items I would like to build but there are not BPO awailables for them. For example all prototype hybrid guns. I, as a small time builder with limited resources, wa smuch more interested in getting a BPC for a good numbers of runs for a prototype hybrid, that I could sell to all the players with the hybrid turrett skill and I can use, than a tech2 gun that require hybrid turret 5 and railgun specializtion. Even worse for the armor. Never seen a tech2 armor plate. I would like to build some rolled tungstenum, but they are tech 1, and building some reinforced stell plate is a waste of time. Even worse with the faction ships. I was hoping that dismantling a Daredevil or a Vagabond I could get a 3-5 run BPC. From your description it is immpossible. But those ships are easier to build and to use, so are much more interesting for the "young" players (I have 6 months of life but as I have a lot of scentific skill I am up only to cruisers). In theory those ship should be the step before getting the tech2 ships, but instead will become even more a collection item. So: 1) Make the needed items availables without the need to harvest them in farmable locations (and think about the fact that a single scentist/builder character usually isn't a great combat pilot) 2) Add a menu where you choose if reserching tech 2 or improved tech1. I feel that if you don't do this "The idea with the invention system was to give players more power over their game environment" will become a false statement, as it will be: the invention system has given some specific alliance more power over the game enviroment. (Like, from what we read, the boosters).
Hehulk FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:36:00 - [82] Edited by: Hehulk on 29/09/2006 08:36:48 Urm, you seemto have missed that that's only one ofthe ways to gather datacores. You also get them from R&D agents in exchange for RP. As for the crying over big alliances holding these 0.0 resources, please, come fight us for it. ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin
Pizi Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:40:00 - [83] Originally by: Za Po Wow, did anyone really think for a moment that the Invention system was supposed to let you "catch up" with BPO owners? Good job, I'm looking forward to this! maybe lessen the gap would be a better word but now it even widens it, T¦2 owners can wait for another BPO to get seeded while we need to spend the RP¦s on datacores _______________________________________________ EVEpedia [Deutsch/German] Say no to BMs
Reptile Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:49:00 - [84] Originally by: Dark Shikari This whole system sounds incredibly awesome. Tedious and cumbersome comes to my mind
Stein Voorhees Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:49:00 - [85] Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne This kills the option for all small corporation or single players interested in invention. The sites will be discovered in the first week and camped by some big alliance. End of invention for the small players. I think I'm going to wait until I see how Exploration works and the re-working of static complexes until I cast judgement on this. Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne 2) There are a lot of tech level 1 items I would like to build but there are not BPO awailables for them. For example all prototype hybrid guns. Named items are not the same as 'Tech 1'. They have better stats but sit between Tech I and tech II. However, reading between the lines I think that using named items in the Invention mix will give a better chance for success of a Tech II bpc. After all, there is no such thing as a Tech II Prototype Hybrid. There is only a Tech II Hybrid.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.09.29 09:00:00 - [86] Sounds cool in theory. I'm a bit worried that some of the components might be so hard to find and/or rare that their prices go through the roof, leading to invention not being worth the trouble and cost, leading us back to square one. As long as there is a realistic chance to get good t2 items for reasonable amounts of efforts, skills and isk, this rocks.
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.29 09:00:00 - [87] Originally by: Vaslav Tchitcherine Originally by: Sabahl If the ME and PE of the invented BPCs is dependent upon the ME and PE of the source Tech 1 BPC then the result will be counter to that which is intended, i.e. invention will produce vastly superior BPCs to those available from the BPOs, even with severe penalties to the starting ME and PE levels. I assume you missed the bit where he said "much, much worse"? Or are are you making the argument that he should, in fact, have said "much, much, much worse"? Your assumption is wrong. Many of the ship BPOs have an ME and/or PE in the low single digits simply because it is not economical to research them AT ALL. For the other BPOs the benefits of researching into higher level ME and PE are dubious to say the least. So lets take my own favourite, a Muninn, as an example. My own BPO is currently at ME 3, PE 0. You can easily buy rupture BPCs with vastly superior ME and PE to that. So assume you find a rupture BPC with ME 30 and PE 30. even if you only get back a fifth of the resulting ME and PE you still end up with a muninn BPC with ME 6 and PE 6, which equates to around two months of continuous research on a Muninn BPO. Multiply this by the number of people who will be looking to get this BPC (thousands) and you end up with the Muninn producers wondering why the hell they are bothering in the first place.
Missie Moomingirl	Posted - 2006.09.29 09:02:00 - [88] Originally by: Pizi Originally by: Za Po Wow, did anyone really think for a moment that the Invention system was supposed to let you "catch up" with BPO owners? Good job, I'm looking forward to this! maybe lessen the gap would be a better word but now it even widens it, T¦2 owners can wait for another BPO to get seeded while we need to spend the RP¦s on datacores Whine whine whine, do you ever stop finding something to whine about? A lot of T2 bpo owners didnt win their bpos, they bought them from people who did.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.09.29 09:04:00 - [89] Originally by: Sabahl So lets take my own favourite, a Muninn, as an example. My own BPO is currently at ME 3, PE 0. You can easily buy rupture BPCs with vastly superior ME and PE to that. So assume you find a rupture BPC with ME 30 and PE 30. even if you only get back a fifth of the resulting ME and PE you still end up with a muninn BPC with ME 6 and PE 6, which equates to around two months of continuous research on a Muninn BPO. Multiply this by the number of people who will be looking to get this BPC (thousands) and you end up with the Muninn producers wondering why the hell they are bothering in the first place. My heart bleeds for you. Not. You mean you might have to actually resort to things like "only" overpricing t2 ships by 3-4x, instead of the current 8-10x? You poor thing. The difference between the build costs and sell costs of many t2 items it utterly silly, nowadays. Anything that forces competition (i.e. increases supply) is a good thing.
Mighty Baz	Posted - 2006.09.29 09:11:00 - [90] It doesnt make sense for huge numbers of active and small rd' players. The same situation like used RD's dishonest lottery. After the kali patch the biggest Alliances and the richest players can be granted at least. I dont understand this up side down attitude of CCP. How do you image to open a new one EVE's accounts? Too complex game becames non profit investors efforts, because of decreased numbers of new players - cash factor. In my opinion the invention process should be easier than decribed. In this case many new one RD's players could rival strongly than now. Besides i dont believe that any changes can give a serious chances to be competitive than T2 owners. Unless (WARNING) : NUMBERS OF T2's BPCs will be depending on QTY of (corp's, alliance's) players who will be working out this same project, together. WOW!!! That could be great. New balance could be avaiable in game

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