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Why integrated voice comms will suck.

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Elgar Lightfoot Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.10.02 11:39:00 - [61] Voice chat built into games destroys chatter. Go look at DDO. They have built in Voice chat and if you want to play it's almost a requirement. However it's not enbled by default so you dont hear anyone speaking. Go to the tavern and ask for help in the local chat. There may be 20 people there, but not one will reply because none of them are reading the chat. They are all listening to the voices. If it's added to EVE I'll not be using it. Seems a bit pointless adding it with a fee, when it's available to those that want it for free.
stoats girl	Posted - 2006.10.02 11:49:00 - [62] "We couldn't fix the server dying when people you know, pvp in a pvp game" "We'll try this instead" Awful idea unless I can yell at the sweatshop farmers in local.
Sean Dillon Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2006.10.02 11:56:00 - [63] Its sucks to CCP see do this, just to show they can. If they spended that money on hardware instead of voice speak it would have been alot better. I have been in a squad on battlefield 2, though BF2 allows voice chat ingame they still used teamspeak because it was better to use and you could actualy use it to talk strategies whilst loading a new map.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.02 11:58:00 - [64] Why does everyone ignore the new features this will bring? ---------- Nerf Caldaro!
Siigari Kitawa Gallente HelpCorp United	Posted - 2006.10.02 12:04:00 - [65] Wait, you have to pay for the EVE ingame comms? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
Trojanman190 Caldari Everlasting Impact	Posted - 2006.10.02 12:31:00 - [66] Teamspeak = free. In game comm = not free. I think its pretty clear what most people will choose.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente HelpCorp United	Posted - 2006.10.02 12:33:00 - [67] Originally by: Trojanman190 Teamspeak = free. In game comm = not free. I think its pretty clear what most people will choose. So where can I read about the features? It'd better be really fscking cool to have to cost money.
Dudley Beekle	Posted - 2006.10.02 12:33:00 - [68] Edited by: Dudley Beekle on 02/10/2006 12:34:41 Originally by: Bombcrater Originally by: Dudley Beekle Who says? Just because it integrates with the client doesn't mean it relies on it. The big deal with the integrated voice comms is that it's integrated into the game. Either the voice client itself or the voice comms server is going to need a pipe into TQ to get access to real-time game data - who's in you gang, etc. If a node crashes that data isn't available any more, and bang goes the voice comms. TS sucks. I hate it with a passion. But a voice client that goes down with the cluster and requires a monthly subscription is far, far worse no matter how nice it is in use. Yay for missing my point completely. integration can just mean "they communicate with each other". If one of them isn't present the one that is just carries on without it. To try and get this point across to the screaming ignorant hordes it's as if the authors of TS had got CCP to publish a chat API for the Eve client. If TS detected the Eve client was running it would talk to it and vice versa. If the Eve client crashes it needn't crash TS (if it did that would be a bug). Similarly if TS crashes it wouldn't have to effect the Eve client. Furthermore the devs would have next to no development to undertake and the voice chat would be completely separate to the game like they are with a current TS setup. For the poster who squawked about voice coms affecting lag:There's no particular reason why it should. I suppose that rendering speech bubbles on screen is a further hit for the graphics card but probably not a big one. The chat itself (processing and transmitting the audio) will be nothing to do with the Eve client or CCP. The only real issues to worry about are the subscription side. These are: * How much? * What about people that don't want to use it? * What about people with multiple accounts? The latter could be addressed by having it billed as a separate item I would imagine. The issue of people not using it is probably the sticking point. Both these are related though. If the pricing can be shared by all subscriptions it might end up so cheap that CCP can 'hide' it in the subscription. The trouble there is that some people's definition of "so cheap that.." varies. But FFS lay off the technical side. Most of you don't seem to know what you're talking about and are raising objections that either aren't relevant or can be easily addressed. Concentrate on the pricing model but that's the bit that's difficult. CCP/Vivox might actually appreciate some suggestions there
Nicholas Barker Caldari Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.02 13:06:00 - [69] i'm only going to use it if it means i can send people taunting voice comes, like when a 50 person frigate gang warps into a bombing geddon, send the FC a nice loud "LAAAAAAAAAAWL!" ------------------------------------- Help! I'm stuck in a hXc gig, send real music and beer fast!
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.02 13:14:00 - [70] Personally while I think it's a neat idea it's kind of silly to try adding it now. TBH I would rather use VENT or TS. Integrated voice coms in a game like EVE is a bit um... over rated. I'd rather have a TS or Vent Server that I can connect to from anywhere, anytime without having to log into the game to use it. And at the price point they're listing? It's just not worth it.
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.10.02 13:45:00 - [71] Oh, I don't know. Seems like with it being integrated into the client, there are a lot of possibilities. They've talked about adding fleet, squadron, and wing groups to gangs. Imagine if the squadron commander could set the fleet channel to listen only or 'talk on TAB', but use caps lock to talk in squadron and listen as well. Building a voice channel would be as easy as forming a gang (or fleet, squadron, etc). The gang leader could just right click on the gang window and mute all. Opening a voice chat with a buddy wouldn't require them to log into your TS server. Spies would have to get into gangs to hear anything. New corps who join an alliance wouldn't have to distribute all the server and password information for the new alliance server. New members to a corp wouldn't need to install new software if the new corp doesn't use the same client. Everyone knows everyone else has the same tools available presuming they're using the voice functions (TS overlay, for example). Will I pay $1 a month for it? Sure, but only if a significant amount of other people do as well. Paying a dollar for a telephone every month is a great deal, but only if everyone you'd want to call also has a telephone. THAT's the only problem I see. Not being able to talk if the client isn't running is minor to me. It's not like I really have any need to talk to people in game if I'm not sitting there playing anyway. Login traps using a 3rd party program are lame, but they'll continue. Those people will simply continue to use what they're using now. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:34:00 - [72] Erm. TS/Vent _isn't_ free. Even if you've got a copy somewhere, it eats a useful amount of bandwidth. OK, so you may have that spare, but even so... I can see a lot of potential for integrated comms. Just imagine if you set up a 'gang lead' 'fleet command' 'covert ops' sort of chain, so you can automatically 'mute' when one of the 'key' people are reporting. Or just have some kind of 'talk to EW group' button, or that kind of thing. Not to mention being able to see who's talking, and where they are and stuff. Got a lot of potential, I have to say. My only real concern is that if it's a bit more on your sub, however negligable, it's also going to mean that some will refuse, or will otherwise be unable to get it (GTC buyers perhaps?). With vent/TS it only requires one person to host, and a few more to donate, before you can make it mandatory for PvP ops. After all, there's no excuse to log in, even if you don't have a mic. shrug I'm not too worried, because at the end of the day, I've still got access to vent/TS. If it's not up to the job, I won't use it. If it is, I'll happily pay a bit extra for some cool new functionality.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:48:00 - [73] The only way I see this working is to integrate some special features just for EVE, like command hierarchies where each squadran can talk amongst themselves but still hear certain commanders. TS can sort of do that, but if the EVE client can do it better it might be worth it. I'm sure a lot of people will use both the ingame comms and TS for backup, or just as a seperate comm channel. Maybe have the entire gang on TS for important info that everyone needs to hear with the ingame comms reserved for chatting inside different units in your fleet (like snipers, EW ships and so on).
Stoick Furious Ascent of Ages	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:53:00 - [74] I've only been playing the game for a week and a half now but I've already encountered so many game bugs and problems that could be easily fixed that I'd rather CCP actually polish their game before they spend all the extra time and effort integrating voice communications in. I mean the developers haven't even solved several lag problems and we're talking about adding another aspect to the game that will potentially make things much laggier. While CCP seems to do an admirable job at ommunicating with the community they don't seem to actually like implmeneting advice. I mean I've been here for literally less than two weeks and I can already point out atleast a half dozen quick and simple ways to reduce lag and server load and improve game play experience without actually altering anything that people would actually notice gameplay wise. To summarize, don't build another layer onto your game until you've fixed the ones you've already released. There's a massive forum listing of bugs, and people who are actually making suggestions in the development forum with very little response from CCP as far as I've seen. I hope that I'm wrong and it's just been an unusally slow two weeks for CCP. It just seems to me that a game that's been released for over two years shouldn't still have simple bugs, like naming secure cargo containers, and if they do, then the developer shouldn't be rolling out big upgrades until they're fixed.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.02 14:57:00 - [75] Quote: I've only been playing the game for a week and a half now but I've already encountered so many game bugs and problems that could be easily fixed that I'd rather CCP actually polish their game before they spend all the extra time and effort integrating voice communications in. Trust me, every time a new feature is mentioned, since the beta, people have stormed to the forums to demand CCP devote all their time to fixing bugs instead. If CCP listened we only just be getting the Exodus expansion that came out a year and a half ago. The truth is there will always be bugs, no matter how long they work on fixing them. Especially in a game like this. EVE is WAY more complicated than Planetside or WoW, it's inevitable that there'll be more bugs too. I've been playing since beta, I've seen tons of bugs come and go in that time, but you can never get them all.
Elgar1 Lightfoot Industries	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:06:00 - [76] If it's a compulsory price hike then I'll not pay it. I'm already paying more in ú than all the US players who pay in $. My game fees are higher for this game than for any other MMO. It's a feature I don't like. It's a game feature I don't want. It's a game feature I'll not use. It's a game feature thats already available for free through TS and Vent. It's definately a game feature I'll not pay for.
Vikram Bedi	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:17:00 - [77] Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. People will continue to use TS because TS allows you to chat while offline and not only communicate during crashes, but also orchestrate lame things like login traps. 2. It costs money. 3. TS will handle more people more reliably. This all depends on the level of in game integration. If CCP gives us enough added functionality, people will drop TS in favor of the in game channel. Something as simple as automatically giving you a "talk to corp, talk to gang" switch would be great, and is totally impossible under TS.
Rina Shanu Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:23:00 - [78] Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. People will continue to use TS because TS allows you to chat while offline and not only communicate during crashes, but also orchestrate lame things like login traps. 2. It costs money. 3. TS will handle more people more reliably. Yeah DS but there are a lot of people in EVE that are not so well organised and do not or are not capable of using out of game voice comms. So those that use vent or ts have a unfair advantage over those that do not. having voice comm integrated in the game makes it a bit more fair. (IMHO those that do not use voice comms now will not use them when game incorporated or the number be small and only increase with time and most people in empire do not need voice comms unless in a war) my sig sucks
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:36:00 - [79] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 02/10/2006 15:37:23 Simply put: If it's an optional fee for an optional service: I'll opt out If it's a compulsory fee that I have to pay regardless of whether I want to or not: I'll probably de-subscribe. MMO's are expensive enough as is, thanks. I'm not about to pay EXTRA for a service I already get for free.
Malicious Wraith The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:36:00 - [80] I wont use it, because my corporation doesent exist only in EvE. ----------------------------------------
Damisela Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.10.02 15:55:00 - [81] Integrated voice comms will put corps, who don't know how to get teamspeak/vent servers up, on a more even footing with those who do. Since voice comm is a huge tactical advantage, this is a good thing. If you think otherwise you might want to reconsider, since it puts you at the moral equivalent of a cheater.
Beef Hardslab	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:00:00 - [82] 1. Skype is free 2. Skype is free 3. Did I mention it's free?
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:35:00 - [83] logon traps are a lot harder to setup with integrated voice chat. apart from that i dont see why they shouldnt offer this service, i find this very remarkable lots of people use it, so why not offer it? ------ relaxed corp looking for members
SkeletonDenial Caldari ExCav Conglomerate The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:44:00 - [84] Edited by: SkeletonDenial on 02/10/2006 16:45:33 Originally by: Dark Shikari ....... If CCP gives us enough added functionality, people will drop TS in favor of the in game channel. Something as simple as automatically giving you a "talk to corp, talk to gang" switch would be great, and is totally impossible under TS. Vivox and Eve in the Garden of AGC Heres an article on it. The whole thing sounds cool to me due to the planned fetures that TS,VENT dont have like voice fonts, kick, ban, mute, roles, etc. I even go so far as to say I give up my 1 bottle of Dew every month to pay for this.
Beringe Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2006.10.02 16:53:00 - [85] Originally by: James Lyrus Got a lot of potential, I have to say. Exactly. There's a ton of neat things that could be done with integrated voice chat, which people seem to be ignoring. ------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Sosus Red Caldari Thunderbolts The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:32:00 - [86] Originally by: Stoick Furious I've only been playing the game for a week and a half now . Im going to call you out on this...youve been playing for a week, exactly what are all these bugs you've encountered in that short time span? Ive been playing for three years and I rarely encounter bugs that I feel the need to whine about
Sosus Red Caldari Thunderbolts The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:35:00 - [87] Originally by: Taram Caldar Edited by: Taram Caldar on 02/10/2006 15:37:23 Simply put: If it's an optional fee for an optional service: I'll opt out If it's a compulsory fee that I have to pay regardless of whether I want to or not: I'll probably de-subscribe. MMO's are expensive enough as is, thanks. I'm not about to pay EXTRA for a service I already get for free. omg, if I have tp pay an exta $2 a month Ill quit!!! lol. Just dont go to McDonalds on night, if your that cheap. That'll save you $10 right there. You sound like a freeloader
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:42:00 - [88] Heh. It'd be nice if CCP could work some deal with Vivox just to prove to the world that VoIP can have a prominent place in MMOGs, not to mention as a paid service outside of games as an alternative to phone lines. Lots of mentions in articles, lots of showtime at conferences, add stuff to the trailers to show off voice fonts and in game voice comms, add a link to the paid service on the main page, etc, and get them to drop the price enough that CCP can absorb it into the existing premiums. Prove it can work seemlessly in a game like eve with as many people online at one time as we have, and there wouldn't be much question of it's viability. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Vikram Bedi	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:42:00 - [89] Originally by: SkeletonDenial Edited by: SkeletonDenial on 02/10/2006 16:54:49 Originally by: Dark Shikari ....... If CCP gives us enough added functionality, people will drop TS in favor of the in game channel. Something as simple as automatically giving you a "talk to corp, talk to gang" switch would be great, and is totally impossible under TS. Vivox and Eve in the Garden of AGC Here's an article on it. The whole thing sounds cool to me due to the planned features that TS,VENT dont have like voice fonts, kick, ban, mute, roles, etc. I'd even go so far as to say I would give up my 1 bottle of Dew every month to pay for this. Even better if you can pay for it with GTC's somehow.
Stoick Furious Ascent of Ages	Posted - 2006.10.02 17:44:00 - [90] Originally by: Xelios Trust me, every time a new feature is mentioned, since the beta, people have stormed to the forums to demand CCP devote all their time to fixing bugs instead. If CCP listened we only just be getting the Exodus expansion that came out a year and a half ago. Perhaps but you'd also have a finished game. It's not acceptable in other industries to charge headlong into developing addons without fixing production problems. Hell it's not even acceptable in the gaming industry. I'd sacrifice a new ship type for a game without bugs any day of the week. Originally by: Xelios The truth is there will always be bugs, no matter how long they work on fixing them. Especially in a game like this. EVE is WAY more complicated than Planetside or WoW, it's inevitable that there'll be more bugs too. I've been playing since beta, I've seen tons of bugs come and go in that time, but you can never get them all. It's got nothing to do with how technical other games are. In fact, EVE's engine is no doubt easier to work with than WOW for instance. The difference with WOW is that Blizzard is renowned for releasing polished games, even delaying them in order to ensure game quality. I don't think there's anything wrong with complaining about bugs for as long as I am paying for the game. If the bugs don't get fixed, I'll just stop playing and paying. That simple. CCP might not be worried. You may not be worried either right now, but in a year or so when you visit Jita and find that it's just you and 3 other people in there with Titan ships - you'll probably look back and wish that the developers had put more effort into fixing the bugs so that people still played the game.

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