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Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:47:14 - [31] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: And you know what would be a fair trade off? Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Mid for non-shield Mid for non-shield 10MN Microwarpdrive II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Rig for non-shield Rig for non-shield that's not even as close as good of a ship and i thought you said this idea wouldn't limit play styles EDIT: oh you did Rain6637 wrote: I don't think this eliminates playstyles Fuel block colors
Iain Cariaba 1036	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:50:11 - [32] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I like how you're playing with the term "identity" but all your examples are obfuscations of intended roles. So you want to come down and say that no one is allowed to do anything except fit x specific tank on y ship, your reasoning behind it being "intended roles?" My question is, who are you to tell me how to play my game? If I want to armor tank a drake, if you totally ignore how crappy of a tank that would be, why shouldn't I be able to, simply because I want to? If I want to shield tank an Armageddon and fit if for max DPS, other than you feeling it's outside some arbitrary "intended role" that you made up for it, why the hell not? EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. "This reminds me - I must complain to my local butcher about him not catering to vegitarians." - admiral root responding to someone whining about too much PvP in Eve Online.
Paranoid Loyd 3796	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:52:16 - [33] - Quote This thread is idiotic. If you are serious, you need to hash out the specifics before it can be discussed, as it is right now you are trolling. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:53:24 - [34] - Quote You want to use all your lows for drone damage mods, and that should mean you are forgoing tank. Is what I'm saying. Shield Ishtars and Domis, Armor Falcons and Widows, etc. Man if you can't handle a thread just because you disagree, Reddit would suit you better. Am I preventing you from leaving this thread? Just forget it exists if you don't like it. But other people should get to have a discussion if they choose. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:58:15 - [35] - Quote Yes, removing any ability to surprise anyone with your fit, ever, is a wonderful idea for the game.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:01:57 - [36] - Quote Not sure what you're talking about. If it was changed to the way I proposed, unusual fits would be even more of a surprise. If something as intangible as the element of surprise is important to you, it's preserved and still possible. Amplified, even. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:09:37 - [37] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: You want to use all your lows for drone damage mods, and that should mean you are forgoing tank. Is what I'm saying. Shield Ishtars and Domis, Armor Falcons and Widows, etc. Man if you can't handle a thread just because you disagree, Reddit would suit you better. Am I preventing you from leaving this thread? Just forget it exists if you don't like it. But other people should get to have a discussion if they choose. I get it. This idea is unusual and out of the ordinary. Acknowledge it as that and get over it. am i not discussing it or by discuss do you mean agree Fuel block colors
Iain Cariaba 1036	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:13:33 - [38] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Not sure what you're talking about. If it was changed to the way I proposed, unusual fits would be even more of a surprise. If something as intangible as the element of surprise is important to you, it's preserved and still possible. Amplified, even. As surprising as an armor tanked Caldari ship, oh wait, with your idea that wouldn't be possible because Caldari ships wouldn't have armor to turn into tank. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. "This reminds me - I must complain to my local butcher about him not catering to vegitarians." - admiral root responding to someone whining about too much PvP in Eve Online.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:15:32 - [39] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Not sure what you're talking about. If it was changed to the way I proposed, unusual fits would be even more of a surprise. If something as intangible as the element of surprise is important to you, it's preserved and still possible. Amplified, even. But knowing exactly what flavour of tank I am going to be facing just by looking at the shiptype, with no chance whatsoever of a surprise, is not going to make things interesting. Hell, without a complete rebalance of every ship, you'd just make certain nobody ever used half the Gallente line again.
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:17:40 - [40] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: Not sure what you're talking about. If it was changed to the way I proposed, unusual fits would be even more of a surprise. If something as intangible as the element of surprise is important to you, it's preserved and still possible. Amplified, even. But knowing exactly what flavour of tank I am going to be facing just by looking at the shiptype, with no chance whatsoever of a surprise, is not going to make things interesting. Hell, without a complete rebalance of every ship, you'd just make certain nobody ever used half the Gallente line again. you mean no active reps and only a max of 60% resists wouldn't do it for you? Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:20:30 - [41] - Quote One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:22:32 - [42] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Is that your entire argument for making the Gallente worthless?
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:24:59 - [43] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Lol now this CCP has actually said is working as intended and that they are fine with it Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:43:20 - [44] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Is that your entire argument for making the Gallente worthless? Not quite to that degree, but what you talk about (unusual fits) involves a viable surprise, and even that's a bit much. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Lol now this CCP has actually said is working as intended and that they are fine with it This definitely isn't the section for rehashing only what is already in the game. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Foxicity The Scope Gallente Federation 124	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:55:42 - [45] - Quote Rain... Foxicity does not understand. Explain it to him like you would a 5-year-old. Why do you think this would make the game more fun and lead to healthy emergent gameplay?
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:02:11 - [46] - Quote Ships would have more focused attributes, rather than limited benefit from off-race hit points. The current foregone conclusion that a ship will have some shield and armor and hull strikes me as muddy, and unclear. Compared to the rest of the ideas I've dropped in F&I, I don't feel very strongly about this one, but I think it's a fun exercise in 'what if.' I hope I'm not the only one who enjoys imaginary scenarios, and considering them for the different game mechanics that would be involved in making them viable. I see it like arguing fantasy football teams. It's something sports nerds do, but I play EVE so this is what I'd like to argue. Be an EVE nerd with me. And at the end of the day we can agree to disagree and do it again next time. But I think calling for thread locks is against the spirit of discussion, and rather 1984. Reddit is that way, and aside from feel-good stories and lowbrow anecdotes, not much discussion occurs there. I hope F&I is better than that. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:04:24 - [47] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Ships would have more focused attributes, rather than limited benefit from off-race hit points. The current foregone conclusion that a ship will have some shield and armor and hull strikes me as muddy, and unclear. because i need a hull or i have no ship i put armor on that hull to protect it when the shields fail i put shields over my armor to protect it as long as i can Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:16:08 - [48] - Quote Reinforced bulkheads, maybe, but you plan to carry around armor mods in a shield ship, as well as a mobile depot? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Foxicity The Scope Gallente Federation 124	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:19:51 - [49] - Quote This change would shut down a part of the 'creative fail-fitting' scene, which is part of what EVE is best loved for. A lot of people seem to have doubts that the good of the change could outweigh the bad. This squishes my brain. I suppose you're trying to make tanks more relevant to rock-paper-scissoring like weapons and propulsion choices are. As others have said, though, this would end up stratifying a number of ships into fewer viable roles.
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:21:02 - [50] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Reinforced bulkheads, maybe, but you plan to carry around armor mods in a shield ship, as well as a mobile depot? what? i'm talking about how it is logical that all ships have armor hull and shields Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:24:54 - [51] - Quote I get that it's logical that ships have all three types of hit points. I also think they're maybe too similar for it. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:25:04 - [52] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Is that your entire argument for making the Gallente worthless? Not quite to that degree, but what you talk about (unusual fits) involves a viable surprise, and even that's a bit much. So...what IS your argument for making gallente ships worthless? Are shield tanked blaster boats really such a problem? Are ratting ishtars the enemy now? Is a gallente ship that doesn't move like a dead whale, has more than 60% resists, and is actually possible to active tank in any way actually a problem? Why do you want to see nothing but single race fleet doctrines?
Lugh Crow-Slave 685	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:29:12 - [53] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Is a gallente ship that doesn't move like a dead whale, has more than 60% resists, in any way actually a problem? Why do you want to see nothing but single race fleet doctrines? just pointing out you hull tank a gal ship so that it is faster Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:33:48 - [54] - Quote Extreme terms like "worthless" is a sure sign of someone who is unreasonable. Just sayin' President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:42:48 - [55] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Extreme terms like "worthless" is a sure sign of someone who is unreasonable. Just sayin' Show me a hull tanked talos that isn't worse than a naga.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:04:30 - [56] - Quote at what, rails? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:09:34 - [57] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: at what, rails? Blasters, like what you might use a shield talos for. Likewise, a hull tanked brutix that brawls better than a ferox. Variety is good. Everything being the same is bad. I, for one, do not want single race fleet doctrines.
Amyclas Amatin SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation 601	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:14:54 - [58] - Quote I too would love to see remote-repping hull tanked fleets. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:21:13 - [59] - Quote Fun Ion Talos with Void Fun Ion Talos with Null Now tell me, are you not surprised? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Discomanco We pooped on your lawn Resonance. 92	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:23:42 - [60] - Quote Is this an attempt to force everyone to roleplay or just an attempt to remove a big part of the sandbox and freedom? Forcing layouts for specific fits removed a lot of what EVE is, the freedom to do as you please and not being gated behind a shitton of rules or liniar progression path. Why do you even want this?

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