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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3198
   |
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:32:21 -
[61] - Quote
I did say 'better', not 'half the EHP, slower, handles like a dead whale and will pop the second someone looks at it funny', didn't I?
Why would this be good for the game, and why would removing diversity from fleets be a thing people would want to do. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29689
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:37:42 -
[62] - Quote
I don't necessarily want this, and F&I threads aren't necessarily adversarial. I'm just saying what if, man.
Danika Princip wrote:I did say 'better', not 'half the EHP, slower, handles like a dead whale and will pop the second someone looks at it funny', didn't I? Why would this be good for the game, and why would removing diversity from fleets be a thing people would want to do.
I meant to ask why are you putting blasters on a Naga?
You think this fit is bad, so does that mean you don't understand how to fly this Talos in PVP?
Now your turn, show me your blaster Naga.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3198
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:40:04 -
[63] - Quote
To prove a point.
Answer the questions please. Why do you want single race fleets with no diversity? Why would this be good for the game? How would this be fun? |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29689
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:40:46 -
[64] - Quote
show me your Naga and I'll continue talking with you.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3198
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:44:40 -
[65] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:show me your Naga and I'll continue talking with you.
Look on our wiki.
Now, answer the questions I have asked you several times. |
Anhenka
The Cult of Personality
DARKNESS.
1006
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:47:04 -
[66] - Quote
This is the most successful troll thread I have seen in a long time. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29689
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:48:50 -
[67] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Rain6637 wrote:show me your Naga and I'll continue talking with you. Look on our wiki. Now, answer the questions I have asked you several times.
Fight my Talos with your Naga.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3200
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:50:34 -
[68] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Rain6637 wrote:show me your Naga and I'll continue talking with you. Look on our wiki. Now, answer the questions I have asked you several times. Fight my Talos with your Naga.
I would if I had a naga that wasn't stuck in Syndicate  |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29689
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:51:17 -
[69] - Quote
Sisi is fine, I think.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
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Lugh Crow-Slave
686
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:53:55 -
[70] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:This is the most successful troll thread I have seen in a long time.
it's fun though
Fuel block colors
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29689
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 00:55:39 -
[71] - Quote
FYI Danica, here's the pilot I'll use. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Rain6639
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
1766
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 03:33:32 -
[72] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:For the sake of identity, yes. Ishtars that can't benefit from shield tanks because they lack shields, etc. This is a profound change to ships, but it seems viable.
except ships all have shields for a reason, lorewise its a deterrent against small ships for armort ankers without them taking damage to their primary defences (plus whod wantt o have to repair damage from every little gnat buzzing around every day) and shield tankers have armor because shields DO fail and they need something besides the walls separating them from the vacuum of space to take hits so they can get away |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
125
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 03:53:36 -
[73] - Quote
- 1,000
Color me guilty for not reading this entire thread, and apologies in advance if this has already been posted.
Move on this is just another nerf the Ishtar topic thinly disguised with a huge dose of screwing over players options. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3430
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 03:55:10 -
[74] - Quote
If you take a peek in the "Masteries" tab of each ship and look at the skills required for Mastery Lv2 or 3, you can see how each ship was "intended by CCP" to be tanked. That doesn't mean you're required to tank it that way, of course, but that is the type of tank CCP had in mind for it.
Having only armor with no shield would make Amarr and Gallente ships a lot easier to balance. Caldari are rarely armor tanked and Minmatar are more a speed tank than anything else which begs its own question: What if the ship is intended to be speed-tanked? Would it have only structure?
Anyhow, despite making the devs' lives easier I see this as not being your very best idea, OP. I won't -1 you but I won't +1 you either.
0. Not supported. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
3430
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 03:56:27 -
[75] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:- 1,000
Color me guilty for not reading this entire thread, and apologies in advance if this has already been posted.
Move on this is just another nerf the Ishtar topic thinly disguised with a huge dose of screwing over players options.
I didn't see any "nerf the ishtar" mentioned here, but now that you mention it perhaps the ship could use somewhat flimsier shields. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29690
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 04:08:00 -
[76] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:If you take a peek in the "Masteries" tab of each ship and look at the skills required for Mastery Lv2 or 3, you can see how each ship was "intended by CCP" to be tanked. That doesn't mean you're required to tank it that way, of course, but that is the type of tank CCP had in mind for it.
Having only armor with no shield would make Amarr and Gallente ships a lot easier to balance. Caldari are rarely armor tanked and Minmatar are more a speed tank than anything else which begs its own question: What if the ship is intended to be speed-tanked? Would it have only structure?
Anyhow, despite making the devs' lives easier I see this as not being your very best idea, OP. I won't -1 you but I won't +1 you either.
0. Not supported.
That's about the best you can hope for in one of these threads... try the idea on, play with it, then throw it away. Thanks
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
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Caligula Gaius Claudian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 04:27:36 -
[77] - Quote
Scorpion/Widow armor tank
Domi/Myrmi/Brutix/Apoc/Harbi shield tank
Not to mention all fancy incursion fits
So not that many to loose.
I support that idea. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29690
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 05:03:00 -
[78] - Quote
Whatever you do in F&I, do not ever question the status quo.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
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baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
14891
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 05:12:38 -
[79] - Quote
Why do you want to nerf me?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Kabark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 05:31:25 -
[80] - Quote
This sounds like class isolation to me. Hate to use World of Warcraft as a reference but anyone who has played it before 2011 knows you used to be able to spec talents any way you wanted. Then to simplify it for children, then made the talent tree linear only as in you could only place skills in one talent tree. That is why I quit. I thrive on versatility and would not support a linear tank per race idea. However, if you made it where it was optional to divert one or two of the tanking abilities to another one, that would be cool. Example being I am flying a Domi and I removed much of my armor to reinforce my hull. Or remove my ships shield generator to divert power to the capacitor. If these were optional, then it would get my support. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29695
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 05:35:31 -
[81] - Quote
lol Baltec. I'm going to treat that as a serious question, to say this piece.
I think it's important to remember there will always be a best course of action, and as long as the options available are the same for everyone, it will never be catastrophic. Relatively speaking.
Maybe I'm forgetting about people who have stopped training a character after completing the skills for a specific fit. And my assumption is that people are ready for changes to skills, with characters cross-trained in armor and shields. In my defense, it's not so crazy that an Amarr character would lack shield skills, or a Caldari character will lack armor skills. I was such a Caldari character for some time. Making use of unconventional tanks requires off-race cross-training already, so this isn't a case of suddenly making skill requirements broader.
One huge benefit of having thoroughly cross-trained characters is being ready for whatever fit comes your / my way, and not having to worry about changing skill requirements. So yeah, lately I've forgotten this is a luxury.
I don't mean to nerf anyone. If something like this would mean a nerf to some people due to the state of their skill sheet, that wasn't my intention.
In fact I doubt a simple pruning of hit points and tank slots would make sense--this is a wild idea and would also involve more balance changes and hopefully buffs. I think it could turn out great since ships will no longer be stepping on each others' toes, so to speak, by having a cross-race tank capability.
To put it simply, if ships were more distinct from each other, they could receive buffs without encroaching on other ships. I'd prefer to see everything get buffed, rather than nerfed, for the sake of keeping EVE kill-y.
I hope people think in terms of 'what if' rather than nerfs and buffs.
Kabark, thanks for stopping by. That's a sensible requirement, that specifying a ship's tank should have benefits. Perhaps I forgot to stress that part, and assumed it was understood that not all F&Is are perfect from the start.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
38
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 08:23:39 -
[82] - Quote
It's just a matter of choice as usual.
A hard choice or obvious choice or compromise choice.
But really i'm personally not ready for armor only amarr, hull tanked gallente. Shield caldari is not a surprise and only couple of exceptions which already mentioned.
And st the end we have winner the most flexible minmatar.
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Gabriel Karade
Noir.
No Not Believing
219
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 11:26:34 -
[83] - Quote
Doing something like this would require a fundamental shift in mechanics, moving away from the fairly binary "hit-points vs damage per second" to a model of "shield/armour penetration" vs over-match and "behind shield/armour effects".
Oh and of course probabilistic systems damage once you do punch through the outer 'hard' layer... (based upon the % over-match...)
in this case;
Caldari would have the 'hardest' shields, but anything getting through is likely to cause significant damage,
Amarr the hardest armour, feeble shields and relatively mediocre systems resilience
Gallente the most resilient systems to shield/armour penetrations,
Minmatar the second most resilient shields and *insert something 'fluffy' about `duct tape' Ref. systems damage*
....In short, it would be an entirely different game, so probably really possible...
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Kabark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 15:58:38 -
[84] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:Doing something like this would require a fundamental shift in mechanics, moving away from the fairly binary "hit-points vs damage per second" to a model of "shield/armour penetration" vs over-match and "behind shield/armour effects".
Oh and of course probabilistic systems damage once you do punch through the outer 'hard' layer... (based upon the % over-match...)
in this case;
Caldari would have the 'hardest' shields, but anything getting through is likely to cause significant damage,
Amarr the hardest armour, feeble shields and relatively mediocre systems resilience
Gallente the most resilient systems to shield/armour penetrations,
Minmatar the second most resilient shields and *insert something 'fluffy' about `duct tape' Ref. systems damage*
....In short, it would be an entirely different game, so possibly not really achievable...
I wouldn't completely discredit this idea. While I do agree with you that if it was made standard that all races are mandatory to tank race specific, would completely change the game and remove one of the biggest attractions to it. However if this system was optional to apply to any ship of any race for any tank, then it would be something to consider. I stated obvious examples earlier but here is another less obvious example: take an Ospey for a small gang, and remove its shield generator to provide extra capacitor power and remove its armor to provide extra hull strength, run remote shield reps in its highs, cap chargers in mids and buffer hull with bulkheads. Non orthodox fit but just an example. I think this idea could be related very close to making all ships modular similar to T3 cruisers but in a limited setting as you can only change the tanking attributes of the ship. Only if this was optional would I like it though. |
Foxicity
The Scope
Gallente Federation
124
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 16:40:23 -
[85] - Quote
For the record Rain, I don't hate the idea. Heck, when it hits me right, I like it. But selling CCP devs on the effort vs reward of the idea, and convincing the playerbase over this one, is going to be tough. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2261
|
Posted - 2015.02.08 17:59:01 -
[86] - Quote
No. This would condemn some really fun fits.
and also because surprise buttsex is the best buttsex.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
29735
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 07:54:52 -
[87] - Quote
I'm OK with your opinion. But I want to point out that your post lacks thought, is a meme, and a trigger rolled into one.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
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Jezza McWaffle
No Vacancies
171
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 08:46:29 -
[88] - Quote
Removing my Shield Revelation? Hellll noo!
C6 Wormhole blog
http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2266
|
Posted - 2015.02.09 21:09:48 -
[89] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I'm OK with your opinion. But I want to point out that your post lacks thought, is a meme, and a trigger rolled into one.
Not every idea needs to be puzzled over for hours before you can see it takes so much more away than it adds.
but im ok with the fact you dont have a sense of humour.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Zedarh Amarizto
Relentless Terrorism
Dead Terrorists
6
|
Posted - 2015.02.21 17:22:18 -
[90] - Quote
Quote:Minmatar - Shield / Armor
Caldari - Shield
Amarr - Armor
Gallente - Hull
If it was gonna be specific to the race wouldn't the ships have the races main tank type PLUS hull?
Minmatar - Shield/Armor/Hull
Caldari - Shield/Hull
Amarr - Armor/Hull
Gallente - Armor/Hull
Note: Anything you say will be misquoted then used against you.
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