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Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 18:44:37 - [1] - Quote Watching my shields slowly regenerate on armor tanked carriers made me wonder if it was time to have ships with specific tanks, rather than all three (shield, armor, hull). There's some freedom and versatility in having the option of shields and armor as viable tanks, but would it be worth specializing racial ships into distinct armor- or shield-only options? Minmatar might retain shields and armor, as a sort of wishy-washy mix, but that's what they are already... more or less able to straddle both armor and shields. But for the other races, is there an opportunity for clearly defined identities here? Minmatar - Shield / Armor Caldari - Shield Amarr - Armor Gallente - Hull President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 679	Posted - 2015.02.07 18:50:45 - [2] - Quote so now i have less choice on what i can tank my ship? like my armor widow or hull hookbill or the shield pally Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 18:52:53 - [3] - Quote For the sake of identity, yes. Ishtars that can't benefit from shield tanks because they lack shields, etc. This is a profound change to ships, but it seems viable. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Iain Cariaba 1032	Posted - 2015.02.07 19:01:28 - [4] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: For the sake of identity, yes. Ishtars that can't benefit from shield tanks because they lack shields, etc. This is a profound change to ships, but it seems viable. How does restricting the options availble to the players make this idea viable? If I want to shield tank an Amarr ship and devote it's lows to heat sinks and tracking enhancers, why shouldn't I be able to simply because you think it'd be cool to keep me from doing so. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. "This reminds me - I must complain to my local butcher about him not catering to vegitarians." - admiral root responding to someone whining about too much PvP in Eve Online.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 19:02:38 - [5] - Quote Identity lol. and also from keeping you from making something imbalanced by forgoing its racial tank to make more use of damage mods. Like shield Oracles or shield Ishtars or Domis. Your example is a great example of why else this would be a good idea. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 1002	Posted - 2015.02.07 19:11:29 - [6] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Identity lol. and also to prevent you from making something imbalanced by forgoing its racial tank to make more use of damage mods. Like shield Oracles or shield Ishtars or Domis. Your example is a great reason why else this would be a good idea. So is the armor Widow, which I've used for quite some time in wormholes. Odd, I must have missed the bit where CCP put a "You should only armor tank these ships" tag on each of those. I look at a 5/5 slot split on meds and lows for the Ishtar and go "OF COURSE! that must be an armor only ship as the game designers intended!" Yige Shen / 10
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 664	Posted - 2015.02.07 19:13:27 - [7] - Quote I shield tank neuting drone legions and armor tank rapiers. What now? EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Lugh Crow-Slave 679	Posted - 2015.02.07 19:14:40 - [8] - Quote Choice and player creativity is part of what makes this game great this is a sand box game after all if anything this takes identity away from the player as they can no longer fit a ship to fit their play style Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:01:41 - [9] - Quote If you want to fly shield ships, then fly shield ships? I don't think this eliminates playstyles, but rather strengthens the distinction between ships President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 944	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:06:35 - [10] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: If you want to fly shield ships, then fly shield ships? I don't think this eliminates playstyles, but rather strengthens the distinction between ships It stovepipes ships into very few fits and leaves little room for surprises. I prefer the current flexibility so a -1 from me I think...
Lugh Crow-Slave 680	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:08:49 - [11] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: If you want to fly shield ships, then fly shield ships? I don't think this eliminates playstyles, but rather strengthens the distinction between ships and if i want a shield tank and use drones what ship should i use or if i want to armor tank with hybrids? (this one is very common if you haven't noticed) or shield tank with beams Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:10:30 - [12] - Quote If you want to shield tank with beams, fly Sansha. If you want to armor tank with hybrids, fly Serpentis. If you want to shield tank with drones, fly Guristas. do you see how this change benefits identity now? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 680	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:14:16 - [13] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: If you want to shield tank with beams, fly Sansha. If you want to armor tank with hybrids, fly Serpentis. If you want to shield tank with drones, fly Guristas. do you see how this change benefits identity now? no i don't its still taking the identity from me. what if i want shield tank with neuts drones and beams or shield tank with drones and blasters maybe hull tank with missiles i can keep going Fuel block colors
Krops Vont Hard Knocks Inc. 42	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:19:42 - [14] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Watching my shields slowly regenerate on armor tanked carriers REFIT NUMNUTS The good: You fit in lore wise. Ships will be much more predictable than they are now You would never have to worry about a max dps shield moros The bad: You would put lore over gameplay which is already a -1 from me. I love a good story but I don't want my ALL TORPEDOS AWAY on a rokh unless I actually fit them. Ok? Ships will be much more predictable than they are now You would never ever fit a max dps shield moros Limiting players playstyle Limiting fits Limiting creativity Limiting element of surprise Limiting gallente to a joke tank... By this logic, minmatar would be the best all rounder. No one would fly anything else but that. You would always know they have this tank and shoot their weakest with ease. There would be no counter besides swiping your hands at the enemy because they knew you brough x against their y. As with any human, we must map out everything for the sake of living. So what happens when you put the same aspect in a game with random events? They go nuts trying to figure out how to predict and map out everything.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:19:52 - [15] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6637 wrote: If you want to shield tank with beams, fly Sansha. If you want to armor tank with hybrids, fly Serpentis. If you want to shield tank with drones, fly Guristas. do you see how this change benefits identity now? no i don't its still taking the identity from me. what if i want shield tank with neuts drones and beams or shield tank with drones and blasters maybe hull tank with missiles i can keep going Shield tank with neuts drones and beams... you want them all bonused? what ship gives you that right now? You can keep going on being ridiculous, you're right. I can't stop you. Krops, things like the Tier 3 ships using turrets doesn't involve this idea. I never said the Rokh should use missiles. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Krops Vont Hard Knocks Inc. 43	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:35:24 - [16] - Quote But it does. Turrets/missiles are influenced by tank. What a player does with their low slots in a shield tank increases damage. Limiting this fundamental structure to one idea takes away the free will in EVE Online so much that players can't come up with nano fit omens or armor tanking scorpions to max jams. You are also guilty to this idea. Why fit an armor tank on that falcon hmm? Please lock thread ISD Dorrim Barstorlode As with any human, we must map out everything for the sake of living. So what happens when you put the same aspect in a game with random events? They go nuts trying to figure out how to predict and map out everything.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 175	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:39:36 - [17] - Quote CCP doesn't even see hull tanking as a real thing. So you would condemn a whole race of ships to Max 60% resist and horrible reppers both local and remote.
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:45:31 - [18] - Quote *I want to be rediculous, and you are trying to stop me. I can and do fit ships badly on purpose. I like the game because it doesn't shoehorn me by saying: Mages can't wear armor, thieves may only wear light armor etc. I can fit a shield domi/ishtar, or an armor scorpion, or if i'm really drunk, fit both active shield and armor and pigeonhole the resists. I like to have the choice to fit badly, or in another light, innovatively. Just leave the system alone and let people make poor choices, the killboards are more entertaining that way.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:48:21 - [19] - Quote I should tell you I'm incredibly amused that you're calling for a lock in a legitimate discussion thread. Falcons enjoy a bit too much benefit from using armor, as they already have (had?) miniature hac resists. So yeah, I've used armor Falcons but that doesn't make it right. It's another reason why it could use some limitation for fitting options. Armor ships get three mids in a lot of cases, and Shield ships could recieve the smattering of three low slots in the name of fairness. This would involve a pretty big shakeup of slot configurations, but hey let's think outside the box for a bit and consider the implications, instead of assuming it's about to happen and that it's something to get upset about. Seriously, how about having a different type of discussion in F&I for once, one that is interesting. Lady Rift, I disagree about CCP's intent for hull tanking. I think it's been an idea for some time, but perhaps under developed. Hull tanking could use its own category of skills (apart from shield and armor). President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 64	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:49:16 - [20] - Quote Lady Rift wrote: CCP doesn't even see hull tanking as a real thing. So you would condemn a whole race of ships to Max 60% resist and horrible reppers both local and remote. They've obviously never encountered a hull tanked brutix navy issue. Seriously, it's like trying to shoot through a brick wall with straw. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Lugh Crow-Slave 681	Posted - 2015.02.07 20:49:35 - [21] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: what if i want shield tank with neuts drones and beams or shield tank with drones and blasters maybe hull tank with missiles i can keep going Shield tank with neuts drones and beams... you want them all bonused? what ship gives you that right now? a DPS curse or pilgrim will use shield tank drones and nuets Rain6637 wrote: You can keep going on being ridiculous, you're right. I can't stop you. there is nothing ridicules about a shield ishtar or a hull hookbil (you get more EHP out of it than an armor hookbill and a shield hookbill either has almost no tank or no utility) Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:03:19 - [22] - Quote That's the general idea. Force ships to function more like the intended way they were balanced. By the way, do you mind posting this Pilgrim or Curse fit you are thinking of President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Sean Parisi Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T 611	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:17:13 - [23] - Quote The choice of tank already represents the identity of the player - it is their ship and they can creatively play with it based on fitting and slot boundaries. Some will opt for double repped ships, double ancil, quick shield ships, buffer brick tanks, low sig armor ships, speed tanked ships, e-war tanks, range tanks. What makes this game exciting is the ability to establish a tactic for yourself. Using a shield or armor playing may not always be optimal - How many Caldari ships do you see using Armor plays past the blackbird? For the most part it is sub optimal for them to do so. BUT they still can and that is the glory of it . Even if a Caldari Navy Hookbill is armor tanked it does not take away from its identity - as said ship still utilizes the Caldari trait of having the most midslots.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:29:54 - [24] - Quote I like how you're playing with the term "identity" but all your examples are obfuscations of intended roles. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 1004	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:34:06 - [25] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I like how you're playing with the term "identity" but all your examples are obfuscations of intended roles. I like how you are playing around with the term "intended" when CCP has never in any way stated that they want ships to always fit certain defense types.
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 224	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:40:13 - [26] - Quote Stop trolling the forum please.
Lugh Crow-Slave 681	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:41:12 - [27] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: By the way, do you mind posting this Pilgrim or Curse fit you are thinking of [Curse, Curse fit] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN Microwarpdrive II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II this gets you 56k ehp and 322 DPS using valk IIs or 201 using warrior II and this isn't even optimized made it in 3 min but here you have a shield tanked neut drone boat Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:43:00 - [28] - Quote You can't interpret racial tank themes and bonuses as intent? Hey Celthric, I'm just putting some different ideas out there for discussion. If you're reacting a certain way that keeps you from thinking straight, I can't help you and I feel bad for you. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 681	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:43:42 - [29] - Quote Sean Parisi wrote: The choice of tank already represents the identity of the player - it is their ship and they can creatively play with it based on fitting and slot boundaries. Some will opt for double repped ships, double ancil, quick shield ships, buffer brick tanks, low sig armor ships, speed tanked ships, e-war tanks, range tanks. What makes this game exciting is the ability to establish a tactic for yourself. Using a shield or armor playing may not always be optimal - How many Caldari ships do you see using Armor plays past the blackbird? For the most part it is sub optimal for them to do so. BUT they still can and that is the glory of it . Even if a Caldari Navy Hookbill is armor tanked it does not take away from its identity - as said ship still utilizes the Caldari trait of having the most midslots. Try it will hull tank now that they have the new rigs you can get more EHP and its faster EDIT: oh wait it's not supposed to tank that way better not Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:45:10 - [30] - Quote And you know what would be a fair trade off? Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Mid for non-shield Mid for non-shield 10MN Microwarpdrive II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Rig for non-shield Rig for non-shield President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:47:14 - [31] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: And you know what would be a fair trade off? Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Mid for non-shield Mid for non-shield 10MN Microwarpdrive II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Rig for non-shield Rig for non-shield that's not even as close as good of a ship and i thought you said this idea wouldn't limit play styles EDIT: oh you did Rain6637 wrote: I don't think this eliminates playstyles Fuel block colors
Iain Cariaba 1036	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:50:11 - [32] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I like how you're playing with the term "identity" but all your examples are obfuscations of intended roles. So you want to come down and say that no one is allowed to do anything except fit x specific tank on y ship, your reasoning behind it being "intended roles?" My question is, who are you to tell me how to play my game? If I want to armor tank a drake, if you totally ignore how crappy of a tank that would be, why shouldn't I be able to, simply because I want to? If I want to shield tank an Armageddon and fit if for max DPS, other than you feeling it's outside some arbitrary "intended role" that you made up for it, why the hell not? EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. "This reminds me - I must complain to my local butcher about him not catering to vegitarians." - admiral root responding to someone whining about too much PvP in Eve Online.
Paranoid Loyd 3796	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:52:16 - [33] - Quote This thread is idiotic. If you are serious, you need to hash out the specifics before it can be discussed, as it is right now you are trolling. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:53:24 - [34] - Quote You want to use all your lows for drone damage mods, and that should mean you are forgoing tank. Is what I'm saying. Shield Ishtars and Domis, Armor Falcons and Widows, etc. Man if you can't handle a thread just because you disagree, Reddit would suit you better. Am I preventing you from leaving this thread? Just forget it exists if you don't like it. But other people should get to have a discussion if they choose. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 21:58:15 - [35] - Quote Yes, removing any ability to surprise anyone with your fit, ever, is a wonderful idea for the game.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:01:57 - [36] - Quote Not sure what you're talking about. If it was changed to the way I proposed, unusual fits would be even more of a surprise. If something as intangible as the element of surprise is important to you, it's preserved and still possible. Amplified, even. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:09:37 - [37] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: You want to use all your lows for drone damage mods, and that should mean you are forgoing tank. Is what I'm saying. Shield Ishtars and Domis, Armor Falcons and Widows, etc. Man if you can't handle a thread just because you disagree, Reddit would suit you better. Am I preventing you from leaving this thread? Just forget it exists if you don't like it. But other people should get to have a discussion if they choose. I get it. This idea is unusual and out of the ordinary. Acknowledge it as that and get over it. am i not discussing it or by discuss do you mean agree Fuel block colors
Iain Cariaba 1036	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:13:33 - [38] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Not sure what you're talking about. If it was changed to the way I proposed, unusual fits would be even more of a surprise. If something as intangible as the element of surprise is important to you, it's preserved and still possible. Amplified, even. As surprising as an armor tanked Caldari ship, oh wait, with your idea that wouldn't be possible because Caldari ships wouldn't have armor to turn into tank. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. "This reminds me - I must complain to my local butcher about him not catering to vegitarians." - admiral root responding to someone whining about too much PvP in Eve Online.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:15:32 - [39] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Not sure what you're talking about. If it was changed to the way I proposed, unusual fits would be even more of a surprise. If something as intangible as the element of surprise is important to you, it's preserved and still possible. Amplified, even. But knowing exactly what flavour of tank I am going to be facing just by looking at the shiptype, with no chance whatsoever of a surprise, is not going to make things interesting. Hell, without a complete rebalance of every ship, you'd just make certain nobody ever used half the Gallente line again.
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:17:40 - [40] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: Not sure what you're talking about. If it was changed to the way I proposed, unusual fits would be even more of a surprise. If something as intangible as the element of surprise is important to you, it's preserved and still possible. Amplified, even. But knowing exactly what flavour of tank I am going to be facing just by looking at the shiptype, with no chance whatsoever of a surprise, is not going to make things interesting. Hell, without a complete rebalance of every ship, you'd just make certain nobody ever used half the Gallente line again. you mean no active reps and only a max of 60% resists wouldn't do it for you? Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29687	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:20:30 - [41] - Quote One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:22:32 - [42] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Is that your entire argument for making the Gallente worthless?
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:24:59 - [43] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Lol now this CCP has actually said is working as intended and that they are fine with it Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:43:20 - [44] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Is that your entire argument for making the Gallente worthless? Not quite to that degree, but what you talk about (unusual fits) involves a viable surprise, and even that's a bit much. Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Lol now this CCP has actually said is working as intended and that they are fine with it This definitely isn't the section for rehashing only what is already in the game. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Foxicity The Scope Gallente Federation 124	Posted - 2015.02.07 22:55:42 - [45] - Quote Rain... Foxicity does not understand. Explain it to him like you would a 5-year-old. Why do you think this would make the game more fun and lead to healthy emergent gameplay?
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:02:11 - [46] - Quote Ships would have more focused attributes, rather than limited benefit from off-race hit points. The current foregone conclusion that a ship will have some shield and armor and hull strikes me as muddy, and unclear. Compared to the rest of the ideas I've dropped in F&I, I don't feel very strongly about this one, but I think it's a fun exercise in 'what if.' I hope I'm not the only one who enjoys imaginary scenarios, and considering them for the different game mechanics that would be involved in making them viable. I see it like arguing fantasy football teams. It's something sports nerds do, but I play EVE so this is what I'd like to argue. Be an EVE nerd with me. And at the end of the day we can agree to disagree and do it again next time. But I think calling for thread locks is against the spirit of discussion, and rather 1984. Reddit is that way, and aside from feel-good stories and lowbrow anecdotes, not much discussion occurs there. I hope F&I is better than that. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:04:24 - [47] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Ships would have more focused attributes, rather than limited benefit from off-race hit points. The current foregone conclusion that a ship will have some shield and armor and hull strikes me as muddy, and unclear. because i need a hull or i have no ship i put armor on that hull to protect it when the shields fail i put shields over my armor to protect it as long as i can Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:16:08 - [48] - Quote Reinforced bulkheads, maybe, but you plan to carry around armor mods in a shield ship, as well as a mobile depot? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Foxicity The Scope Gallente Federation 124	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:19:51 - [49] - Quote This change would shut down a part of the 'creative fail-fitting' scene, which is part of what EVE is best loved for. A lot of people seem to have doubts that the good of the change could outweigh the bad. This squishes my brain. I suppose you're trying to make tanks more relevant to rock-paper-scissoring like weapons and propulsion choices are. As others have said, though, this would end up stratifying a number of ships into fewer viable roles.
Lugh Crow-Slave 682	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:21:02 - [50] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Reinforced bulkheads, maybe, but you plan to carry around armor mods in a shield ship, as well as a mobile depot? what? i'm talking about how it is logical that all ships have armor hull and shields Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:24:54 - [51] - Quote I get that it's logical that ships have all three types of hit points. I also think they're maybe too similar for it. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:25:04 - [52] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: One of the reasons why I say hull tanking is under developed. Is that your entire argument for making the Gallente worthless? Not quite to that degree, but what you talk about (unusual fits) involves a viable surprise, and even that's a bit much. So...what IS your argument for making gallente ships worthless? Are shield tanked blaster boats really such a problem? Are ratting ishtars the enemy now? Is a gallente ship that doesn't move like a dead whale, has more than 60% resists, and is actually possible to active tank in any way actually a problem? Why do you want to see nothing but single race fleet doctrines?
Lugh Crow-Slave 685	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:29:12 - [53] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Is a gallente ship that doesn't move like a dead whale, has more than 60% resists, in any way actually a problem? Why do you want to see nothing but single race fleet doctrines? just pointing out you hull tank a gal ship so that it is faster Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:33:48 - [54] - Quote Extreme terms like "worthless" is a sure sign of someone who is unreasonable. Just sayin' President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.07 23:42:48 - [55] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Extreme terms like "worthless" is a sure sign of someone who is unreasonable. Just sayin' Show me a hull tanked talos that isn't worse than a naga.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:04:30 - [56] - Quote at what, rails? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3196	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:09:34 - [57] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: at what, rails? Blasters, like what you might use a shield talos for. Likewise, a hull tanked brutix that brawls better than a ferox. Variety is good. Everything being the same is bad. I, for one, do not want single race fleet doctrines.
Amyclas Amatin SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation 601	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:14:54 - [58] - Quote I too would love to see remote-repping hull tanked fleets. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:21:13 - [59] - Quote Fun Ion Talos with Void Fun Ion Talos with Null Now tell me, are you not surprised? President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Discomanco We pooped on your lawn Resonance. 92	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:23:42 - [60] - Quote Is this an attempt to force everyone to roleplay or just an attempt to remove a big part of the sandbox and freedom? Forcing layouts for specific fits removed a lot of what EVE is, the freedom to do as you please and not being gated behind a shitton of rules or liniar progression path. Why do you even want this?
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3198	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:32:21 - [61] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Fun Ion Talos with Void Fun Ion Talos with Null Now tell me, are you not surprised? I did say 'better', not 'half the EHP, slower, handles like a dead whale and will pop the second someone looks at it funny', didn't I? Why would this be good for the game, and why would removing diversity from fleets be a thing people would want to do.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:37:42 - [62] - Quote I don't necessarily want this, and F&I threads aren't necessarily adversarial. I'm just saying what if, man. Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: Fun Ion Talos with Void Fun Ion Talos with Null Now tell me, are you not surprised? I did say 'better', not 'half the EHP, slower, handles like a dead whale and will pop the second someone looks at it funny', didn't I? Why would this be good for the game, and why would removing diversity from fleets be a thing people would want to do. I meant to ask why are you putting blasters on a Naga? You think this fit is bad, so does that mean you don't understand how to fly this Talos in PVP? Now your turn, show me your blaster Naga. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3198	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:40:04 - [63] - Quote To prove a point. Answer the questions please. Why do you want single race fleets with no diversity? Why would this be good for the game? How would this be fun?
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:40:46 - [64] - Quote show me your Naga and I'll continue talking with you. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3198	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:44:40 - [65] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: show me your Naga and I'll continue talking with you. Look on our wiki. Now, answer the questions I have asked you several times.
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 1006	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:47:04 - [66] - Quote This is the most successful troll thread I have seen in a long time.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:48:50 - [67] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: show me your Naga and I'll continue talking with you. Look on our wiki. Now, answer the questions I have asked you several times. Fight my Talos with your Naga. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3200	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:50:34 - [68] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Rain6637 wrote: show me your Naga and I'll continue talking with you. Look on our wiki. Now, answer the questions I have asked you several times. Fight my Talos with your Naga. I would if I had a naga that wasn't stuck in Syndicate
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:51:17 - [69] - Quote Sisi is fine, I think. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Lugh Crow-Slave 686	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:53:55 - [70] - Quote Anhenka wrote: This is the most successful troll thread I have seen in a long time. it's fun though Fuel block colors
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29689	Posted - 2015.02.08 00:55:39 - [71] - Quote FYI Danica, here's the pilot I'll use. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Rain6639 President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Nariya Kentaya Ministry of War Amarr Empire 1766	Posted - 2015.02.08 03:33:32 - [72] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: For the sake of identity, yes. Ishtars that can't benefit from shield tanks because they lack shields, etc. This is a profound change to ships, but it seems viable. except ships all have shields for a reason, lorewise its a deterrent against small ships for armort ankers without them taking damage to their primary defences (plus whod wantt o have to repair damage from every little gnat buzzing around every day) and shield tankers have armor because shields DO fail and they need something besides the walls separating them from the vacuum of space to take hits so they can get away
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 125	Posted - 2015.02.08 03:53:36 - [73] - Quote - 1,000 Color me guilty for not reading this entire thread, and apologies in advance if this has already been posted. Move on this is just another nerf the Ishtar topic thinly disguised with a huge dose of screwing over players options.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3430	Posted - 2015.02.08 03:55:10 - [74] - Quote If you take a peek in the "Masteries" tab of each ship and look at the skills required for Mastery Lv2 or 3, you can see how each ship was "intended by CCP" to be tanked. That doesn't mean you're required to tank it that way, of course, but that is the type of tank CCP had in mind for it. Having only armor with no shield would make Amarr and Gallente ships a lot easier to balance. Caldari are rarely armor tanked and Minmatar are more a speed tank than anything else which begs its own question: What if the ship is intended to be speed-tanked? Would it have only structure? Anyhow, despite making the devs' lives easier I see this as not being your very best idea, OP. I won't -1 you but I won't +1 you either. 0. Not supported.
Alvatore DiMarco Capricious Endeavours Ltd 3430	Posted - 2015.02.08 03:56:27 - [75] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: - 1,000 Color me guilty for not reading this entire thread, and apologies in advance if this has already been posted. Move on this is just another nerf the Ishtar topic thinly disguised with a huge dose of screwing over players options. I didn't see any "nerf the ishtar" mentioned here, but now that you mention it perhaps the ship could use somewhat flimsier shields.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29690	Posted - 2015.02.08 04:08:00 - [76] - Quote Alvatore DiMarco wrote: If you take a peek in the "Masteries" tab of each ship and look at the skills required for Mastery Lv2 or 3, you can see how each ship was "intended by CCP" to be tanked. That doesn't mean you're required to tank it that way, of course, but that is the type of tank CCP had in mind for it. Having only armor with no shield would make Amarr and Gallente ships a lot easier to balance. Caldari are rarely armor tanked and Minmatar are more a speed tank than anything else which begs its own question: What if the ship is intended to be speed-tanked? Would it have only structure? Anyhow, despite making the devs' lives easier I see this as not being your very best idea, OP. I won't -1 you but I won't +1 you either. 0. Not supported. That's about the best you can hope for in one of these threads... try the idea on, play with it, then throw it away. Thanks President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Caligula Gaius Claudian Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2015.02.08 04:27:36 - [77] - Quote Scorpion/Widow armor tank Domi/Myrmi/Brutix/Apoc/Harbi shield tank Not to mention all fancy incursion fits So not that many to loose. I support that idea.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29690	Posted - 2015.02.08 05:03:00 - [78] - Quote Whatever you do in F&I, do not ever question the status quo. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 14891	Posted - 2015.02.08 05:12:38 - [79] - Quote Why do you want to nerf me? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Kabark Caldari Provisions Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.02.08 05:31:25 - [80] - Quote This sounds like class isolation to me. Hate to use World of Warcraft as a reference but anyone who has played it before 2011 knows you used to be able to spec talents any way you wanted. Then to simplify it for children, then made the talent tree linear only as in you could only place skills in one talent tree. That is why I quit. I thrive on versatility and would not support a linear tank per race idea. However, if you made it where it was optional to divert one or two of the tanking abilities to another one, that would be cool. Example being I am flying a Domi and I removed much of my armor to reinforce my hull. Or remove my ships shield generator to divert power to the capacitor. If these were optional, then it would get my support.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29695	Posted - 2015.02.08 05:35:31 - [81] - Quote lol Baltec. I'm going to treat that as a serious question, to say this piece. I think it's important to remember there will always be a best course of action, and as long as the options available are the same for everyone, it will never be catastrophic. Relatively speaking. Maybe I'm forgetting about people who have stopped training a character after completing the skills for a specific fit. And my assumption is that people are ready for changes to skills, with characters cross-trained in armor and shields. In my defense, it's not so crazy that an Amarr character would lack shield skills, or a Caldari character will lack armor skills. I was such a Caldari character for some time. Making use of unconventional tanks requires off-race cross-training already, so this isn't a case of suddenly making skill requirements broader. One huge benefit of having thoroughly cross-trained characters is being ready for whatever fit comes your / my way, and not having to worry about changing skill requirements. So yeah, lately I've forgotten this is a luxury. I don't mean to nerf anyone. If something like this would mean a nerf to some people due to the state of their skill sheet, that wasn't my intention. In fact I doubt a simple pruning of hit points and tank slots would make sense--this is a wild idea and would also involve more balance changes and hopefully buffs. I think it could turn out great since ships will no longer be stepping on each others' toes, so to speak, by having a cross-race tank capability. To put it simply, if ships were more distinct from each other, they could receive buffs without encroaching on other ships. I'd prefer to see everything get buffed, rather than nerfed, for the sake of keeping EVE kill-y. I hope people think in terms of 'what if' rather than nerfs and buffs. Kabark, thanks for stopping by. That's a sensible requirement, that specifying a ship's tank should have benefits. Perhaps I forgot to stress that part, and assumed it was understood that not all F&Is are perfect from the start. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 38	Posted - 2015.02.08 08:23:39 - [82] - Quote It's just a matter of choice as usual. A hard choice or obvious choice or compromise choice. But really i'm personally not ready for armor only amarr, hull tanked gallente. Shield caldari is not a surprise and only couple of exceptions which already mentioned. And st the end we have winner the most flexible minmatar.
Gabriel Karade Noir. No Not Believing 219	Posted - 2015.02.08 11:26:34 - [83] - Quote Doing something like this would require a fundamental shift in mechanics, moving away from the fairly binary "hit-points vs damage per second" to a model of "shield/armour penetration" vs over-match and "behind shield/armour effects". Oh and of course probabilistic systems damage once you do punch through the outer 'hard' layer... (based upon the % over-match...) in this case; Caldari would have the 'hardest' shields, but anything getting through is likely to cause significant damage, Amarr the hardest armour, feeble shields and relatively mediocre systems resilience Gallente the most resilient systems to shield/armour penetrations, Minmatar the second most resilient shields and insert something 'fluffy' about `duct tape' Ref. systems damage ....In short, it would be an entirely different game, so probably really possible... War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Kabark Caldari Provisions Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.02.08 15:58:38 - [84] - Quote Gabriel Karade wrote: Doing something like this would require a fundamental shift in mechanics, moving away from the fairly binary "hit-points vs damage per second" to a model of "shield/armour penetration" vs over-match and "behind shield/armour effects". Oh and of course probabilistic systems damage once you do punch through the outer 'hard' layer... (based upon the % over-match...) in this case; Caldari would have the 'hardest' shields, but anything getting through is likely to cause significant damage, Amarr the hardest armour, feeble shields and relatively mediocre systems resilience Gallente the most resilient systems to shield/armour penetrations, Minmatar the second most resilient shields and insert something 'fluffy' about `duct tape' Ref. systems damage ....In short, it would be an entirely different game, so possibly not really achievable... I wouldn't completely discredit this idea. While I do agree with you that if it was made standard that all races are mandatory to tank race specific, would completely change the game and remove one of the biggest attractions to it. However if this system was optional to apply to any ship of any race for any tank, then it would be something to consider. I stated obvious examples earlier but here is another less obvious example: take an Ospey for a small gang, and remove its shield generator to provide extra capacitor power and remove its armor to provide extra hull strength, run remote shield reps in its highs, cap chargers in mids and buffer hull with bulkheads. Non orthodox fit but just an example. I think this idea could be related very close to making all ships modular similar to T3 cruisers but in a limited setting as you can only change the tanking attributes of the ship. Only if this was optional would I like it though.
Foxicity The Scope Gallente Federation 124	Posted - 2015.02.08 16:40:23 - [85] - Quote For the record Rain, I don't hate the idea. Heck, when it hits me right, I like it. But selling CCP devs on the effort vs reward of the idea, and convincing the playerbase over this one, is going to be tough.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2261	Posted - 2015.02.08 17:59:01 - [86] - Quote No. This would condemn some really fun fits. and also because surprise buttsex is the best buttsex. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29735	Posted - 2015.02.09 07:54:52 - [87] - Quote I'm OK with your opinion. But I want to point out that your post lacks thought, is a meme, and a trigger rolled into one. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Jezza McWaffle No Vacancies 171	Posted - 2015.02.09 08:46:29 - [88] - Quote Removing my Shield Revelation? Hellll noo! C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2266	Posted - 2015.02.09 21:09:48 - [89] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I'm OK with your opinion. But I want to point out that your post lacks thought, is a meme, and a trigger rolled into one. Not every idea needs to be puzzled over for hours before you can see it takes so much more away than it adds. but im ok with the fact you dont have a sense of humour. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Zedarh Amarizto Relentless Terrorism Dead Terrorists 6	Posted - 2015.02.21 17:22:18 - [90] - Quote Quote: Minmatar - Shield / Armor Caldari - Shield Amarr - Armor Gallente - Hull If it was gonna be specific to the race wouldn't the ships have the races main tank type PLUS hull? Minmatar - Shield/Armor/Hull Caldari - Shield/Hull Amarr - Armor/Hull Gallente - Armor/Hull *Note: Anything you say will be misquoted then used against you.*
Tusker Crazinski Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 29	Posted - 2015.02.21 17:39:52 - [91] - Quote No anyway what I do think should be updated (I know it wont) is what the racial tanks are. Minmatar make perfect sense Speed > what ever you could fit > ???? > profit. so really favoring active shielding as it keeps your sig low and dose not comprise speed, but all is up for grabs. Ammar, for some reason I always figured they should be shield buffer tanked. they shoot lasers, have the best cap, their the oldest race in the game. but use big tungsten plates for defense. Gallente, armor buffer tanked, their drone boats allow for the best RR setups. Caldari make the least sense. their supposed to be E-war heavy but their ships use mids to tank..... missiles only have one low slot damage mod. so why not make them tank in the lows? mids are also need for painters.
Shallanna Yassavi Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2015.02.22 20:53:06 - [92] - Quote This would end up being a nerf to newbies, because playing with 100M+ ISK ships isn't really a choice for most of them, unless you want to make selling PLEX mandatory. While we're at it, can we shoehorn autocannons and missiles into one or two damage types? Because if you remove choice for defense... A signature :o
Shodan Of Citadel School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.02.23 00:38:30 - [93] - Quote Loooong long ago, several of us in the Minmatard Channel had a long discussion about why the ships are the way they are and things about the Gallente kept missing the mark while other races hit it on the head. Something about: shields being strength of society's own beliefs and culture against outside belief systems and cultures. armor being the strength of society resistance to change hull being the strength of ability of society's beliefs to adaptive to changes without damage. Accordingly, how things would look now... Shields: Caldari, Minmatar, Gallente, Amarr Caldari get bonus to resistance and HP reflecting the rigidness of their ideology Minmatar get bonus to reps reflecting ability to adapt without breaking Gallente have no bonus, but can put up good resistance to negative influences Amarr have almost no shields at all, no defense for their way of life Armor: Amarr, Gallente, Minmatar, Caldari Amarr get bonus to resistance and HP synonymous with societal rigidity. Increase Amarr armor by 1/4. Minmatar are tribalistic but future thinking and should have just slightly more armor than Gallente and the Shield rep bonus applied to Armor repair systems. Weaker than Gallente, but repper bonuses. Reduce Gallente Armor by 1/4. Gallente are democratic, doesn't mean united across all fronts like the Amarrian religious or even Minmatar traditionalist front. Their can be times of extremes, but actually able to handle more pressure than Minmatar. Stronger than Minmatar, but no repper bonuses. Caldari the weakest with many fractures in societal fabric, but expected when State>Self Hull: Gallente, Amarr, Minmatar, Caldari We actually considered the Minmatar more able to survive dramatic changes better than the Amarr, but eventually agreed the Minmatar are operating out of a tribal system with many factions by nature than the Amarr with largely a single religion and leader adoration. Gallente Hull So the Gallente Armor might be greater in amount than Minmatar, but the Minmatar get a repper bonus, so how to give Gallente a hull rep bonus in keeping with their ability to withstand societal change that would destroy the other empires, but also reflect their ability after great upheaval to reunite as a people? Changes to Local Hull Reps Currently have 24 second cycle and repair hull for capacitor on a 1:1 ratio, which isn't competitive against shield boosters and armor repairers. small: 12s, 60 hull, 90 cap medium: 12s, 120 hull, 180 cap large: 12s, 240 hull, 360 cap Changes Gallente: +25% more hull, but the -25% less armor stated above Create Hull Resistance Plates -increase hull resistances at cost of armor resistances Create Reinforced Structure Coatings -increase structure amount at cost of speed Bonus to the Hull Repairers and Remote Hull Repairs Amarr, Minmatar, Caldari -remain as is Hull Repairer becomes Low-Slot to keep from messing with Gallente slots layout easy fix for Remote Hull Repairers -match their stats to the Remote Armor Repairers and then make the logis provide the same bonuses to the Remote Hull Repairers as they do the Remote Armor Repairers. As far as actual slot layouts went, we noticed amarr/caldari mids and lows flipped, likewise for gallente/minmatar. I think we also discussed why ECM isn't high slot and why shield boosters aren't low-slot, but most of us had sobered by then and logged off.
Tusker Crazinski Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 30	Posted - 2015.02.23 03:08:59 - [94] - Quote Shallanna Yassavi wrote: While we're at it, can we shoehorn autocannons and missiles into one or two damage types? Because if you remove choice for defense... actually I'd rather projectiles be shoehorned in explosive and kinetic damage and actually be good instead of just sucking but it's okay because selectable damage.
Duchess Starbuckington Starbuckington Manor 311	Posted - 2015.02.23 09:25:13 - [95] - Quote AWESOME! LESS CHOICE IN HOW I FIT/USE MY SHIPS! Said noone ever. ** idea is ** -1
Spugg Galdon APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front 616	Posted - 2015.02.23 11:22:19 - [96] - Quote I've scanned through this thread and seen that Rain6637 has made a hell of a lot of "I am right, you're wrong. Why don't you have an open mind? The butt joke at the end of "Kingsman: The Secret Service" was offensive to me." arguments. This person seems to be terrible at debating and communicating. However, they have 30k likes? What the hell? Has someone hacked your account and posted this crap? Cause it seems incredibly out of character.
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 1095	Posted - 2015.02.23 15:52:05 - [97] - Quote Spugg Galdon wrote: I've scanned through this thread and seen that Rain6637 has made a hell of a lot of "I am right, you're wrong. Why don't you have an open mind? The butt joke at the end of "Kingsman: The Secret Service" was offensive to me." arguments. This person seems to be terrible at debating and communicating. However, they have 30k likes? What the hell? Has someone hacked your account and posted this crap? Cause it seems incredibly out of character. There are many ways to game likes you know, if you feel like doing it. There's a likes and get likes thread somewhere where everyone just circle jerk likes everywhere, but I believe Rain's came from an experiment with massively replicated alts chain upvoting. Some guy recently gave himself like 4k likes overnight.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 30408	Posted - 2015.02.23 16:12:22 - [98] - Quote I don't think defending one's argument is so odd. If people give obtuse reasons for disagreeing, then I can't help but address their comment on a similar level. The reality is a lot of players are understandably attached to the way things are, and the basic premise of this forum section is challenging /questioning the status quo. If you go back and sort the dissenting posts by feelings vs thoughts (especially the comments that boil down to "no; because.") you'll see what I mean. These topics should be treated as thought experiments more than anything. The way I see it, I'm doing people a favor by helping them see things differently. In the end, none of these suggestions are real. Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.
Spugg Galdon APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front 618	Posted - 2015.02.24 09:54:34 - [99] - Quote But you do realize that EvE is a game about choice and consequence, right? If you remove peoples ability to make a choice you're essentially removing a core part of the gameplay. This is what people are referring to when they say "because of :reasons:". One of the best parts of EvE is having the freedom to fit your ship however you like. Be that an armour tanked laser Cormorant or a shield tanked projectile Armageddon. Or even fitting small guns or mining lasers to a Moros. The point is we can if we so desire and sometimes these choices create exceptionally fun gameplay and keep the universe a very diverse one. If you try to remove that core fundamental freedom when it has no negative effect on the game then people are going to tell you to crawl back under your bridge. With reference to the Phoebe changes; Capital ship projection was a real problem in Eve and Phoebe has really increased the possibilities rather than limited them. More small fights (which is what people really want) occur. People aren't afraid of commiting capitals to smaller random fights anymore as they know it will take a hell of a lot longer than previously (about 8 minutes) to get a 3rd party curb stomp fleet dropped in on the fight. That was an issue. The fact that I can shield tank a Celestis and fly it for pure combat instead of only flying it in its EWAR role is not an issue. The fact that Chribba can mine in a Dreadnaught is not an issue. The fact that an amour ECM Drake can actually work, isn't an issue. Do you need me to provide more examples?
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 67	Posted - 2015.02.24 10:01:47 - [100] - Quote You guys have likes from me. So please keep on rolling.
Captain Cean Holy Cookie 19	Posted - 2015.02.24 10:35:27 - [101] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Shield tank with neuts drones and beams... you want them all bonused? what ship gives you that right now? . Armageddon Curse Pilgrim Sentienel "Astero"
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 30420	Posted - 2015.02.24 11:52:27 - [102] - Quote Sh- Shield geddon? k, i'll try anything once. Hey Spugg, I getcha. Yeah some fitting freedom would be sacrificed for the sake of identity, in my idea. There are some road blocks and hurdles to participating in F&I. I don't see any harm in saying 'gee whiz' or 'what if.' But a lot of people are repulsed by F&I topics, and I think there are some basic explanations why. One of the biggest problems with discussing ideas is people's emotional attachment to how they play. When someone forms an opinion on an emotional basis, and depending on the strength of that emotion, it's likely their opinion is immovable. Another way to describe this is unreasonable. Emotions are addictive, and a lot of people readily submit themselves to them. There's also a saying that the mark of an educated mind is the ability to entertain a thought without accepting it. I'd say that type of intellectual flexibility is required to navigate through F&I threads and maintain one's composure. Due to the emotional thing. A third requirement of participating in F&I without affecting one's blood pressure is a willingness to veer off course from established norms, and ideas, and the status quo. I think this is closely related to creativity. And creativity is rare. So this is how a lot of F&I threads go awry. First is the requirement for emotional stability. Second is the need for a trained mind. Third is the bonus of being imaginative and creative. Then a person can try an idea out, run it through their knowledge of the game mechanics, then comment on what it would change, how it could be improved, or if there are any hard limits to implementation. It's all just discourse for fun, Spugg. Anyway, your opinion that I'm a poor communicator is noted. I make a constant effort to express myself clearly and efficiently, and if I've failed in this thread... oops, and I'll try harder next time. See you in another thread (Sorry Mario but the princess is in another castle). Don't post on the forums, devs don't read it. Send GMs your questions with support tickets. Don't be silent.

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