Was just thinking this.

Yeah, a guy who dislikes PvP gets ganked...sure he might quit. But could that ganking also lead to 1 or more new subs? If so, then a larger view of things needs to be considered.

Was just thinking this.

Yeah, a guy who dislikes PvP gets ganked...sure he might quit. But could that ganking also lead to 1 or more new subs? If so, then a larger view of things needs to be considered.

Opposing something is fine. Paying for a video game that enshrines the thing you oppose is stupid. Playing EVE while opposing non-consensual pvp is like playing WoW while harboring a rabid hatred of elves, orks and all such fantasy creatures.

Ganking is the most boring form of PvP however.

Ganking is the most boring form of PvP however. It's literally shooting fish in a barrel. It's as likely to make people quit if its the main focus of the game as making the main focus of the game pure PvE. What CCP aim for, and what is generally created, is a balance. Ganking is alright, PvE is alright. Players like Kaarous are as bad as a carebear demanding pure safety, just on the other end of the spectrum, that's all.

The problem you types fail to realise is that EVE is about a lot more that just that. Most games have something you don't like in it, that's the challenge, to avoid that. You play game with the intention of winning at whatever task it is you are aiming to accomplish and you avoid losing to the obstacles. Non-consensual PvP is simply an obstacle. There are ways to play EVE while reducing the risk of that obstacle, and there's no reason those should be removed, they are part of the game. The thing is, being in an NPC corp is just one of them. What makes me laugh is half the "hardcore" players like Kaarous are actively using another: remaining in highsec. "Grr, I hate people avoiding non-consensual PvP, yet I'm going to stay in a place that exists specifically to reduce exposure to non-consensual PvP". Makes no sense.

Opposing something is fine. Paying for a video game that enshrines the thing you oppose is stupid. Playing EVE while opposing non-consensual pvp is like playing WoW while harboring a rabid hatred of elves, orks and all such fantasy creatures.

Many that know, still oppose the idea.

They rage when they get shot at, they come and complain in the forum how pvp in highsec should be made harder (eg. -10s not allowed in highsec, high slot modules shouldn't work in highsec, non-consensual pvp should be removed from highsec because it's meant to be safe, etc) and they post ideas in the F&I forum designed to make themself safer while eliminating other people's play. They constantly call for nerfs to pvp and complain how pvp affects player retention without even attempting to understand whether that is true or not, just because they don't like it.

oh i know, i've had to listen to more than a few of them over the years, ...

Also the assumption about people crying for HS to be made higher safety is now a bit of red herring.

That is exactly what CCP said at Fanfest and it makes perfect sense. It's not hard to imagine the thousands of players who started the trial expecting space battles and spent it mining or missioning solo and nothing at all interesting happens to them. All this bubble-wrapping of highsec in recent years has isolated most of them from even the hint of excitement and so they come to the conclusion that Eve is boring and do not subscribe.

CCP Rise said that less that a fraction of a percent of people who quit cite ship loss as the reason. How many multiples of that number were just bored out of the game?

Says the tireless defender of ISBotter?

You don't have anything to say but your usual drivel. Be gone.

Well... you could start by having them have something other Incursions and L4 missions to make them some damn money.


If they try industry, they're fking dead.

At no point did I defend ISBoxer.

Right back from the beginning I was suggesting better ways to make ISBoxer useless without having to risk banning manual multiboxers.

stuff
How many of those people that state nothing? Is there even an option for that in the normal set of tickboxes, or is that something you have to pick "other" and type in. Even CCP themselves seemed to avoid making any concrete conclusions from that data.

Incursions broke the hi-sec ISK faucet. It's broke until they fix it. Industry is kind of a joke unless you're ancient.

Or just hate yourself

Lucas, it might be worth going back and listening to CCP Rise in that 2014 presentation again.

From those stats, the 40% that go into solo play missioning/mining, which the old tutorial system led them towards, also tended not to stay with the game for very long.

So there was the 50% that left within a month or so, 40% that tended not to stay very long and 10% that end up as long term retained players.

That's why I think ganking should be the danger in high sec. War decs would be to take over structures or something of high value.

I guess this does explain Incursions and the ridic payout, but did they have to sacrifice Industry to do it? I know the CODE cockroaches are more than happy to feed on the hapless, but it's depressing nonetheless. Also with population online and no newbies doing industrial stuff it just let's you know how centralized and controlled stuff is.


It's an old game so i guess "whatever".

Many that know, still oppose the idea.

They rage when they get shot at, they come and complain in the forum how pvp in highsec should be made harder (eg. -10s not allowed in highsec, high slot modules shouldn't work in highsec, non-consensual pvp should be removed from highsec because it's meant to be safe, etc) and they post ideas in the F&I forum designed to make themself safer while eliminating other people's play. They constantly call for nerfs to pvp and complain how pvp affects player retention without even attempting to understand whether that is true or not, just because they don't like it.

[quote=Ivant Sumboodi][quote=Lucas Kell] stuff
[quote=Black Pedro

You can't build ties to this game if all you do is play with yourself and the vast majority of player won't pay a monthly sub for a game they don't feel any attachment to.

Truth be told lately i see a lot more whine and cry from Feyd, Kaarous and 'pro-pvp' company than from so called 'carebears'. Something happened....

I don't think any one thing should be "the" danger in highsec. (or just two things, either)

Only one thing is only one thing to watch out for. And I don't think it should be that simple, or that restricted.

If there's a large corp of high sec carebears that are socially playing the game together and exploring different avenues in Eve or the same group of players all in NPC corps derping around without a clue which is more likely to lead to subscriptions?

Ha ha, what? That's damn near all you did for a solid month.

At the end of the day CCP are treating a symptom here. The problem is that mining is boring as sin, bombers are too powerful, and the control system is far too simple all round. Fixing that by nuking out a single playstyle isn't fixing it.

They were never at risk, barring the obvious lies and smokescreen from the bot apologists in that thread, yourself included.

Yeah, that's my point. People are always saying "how can we turn that 40% into more for the 10%". What I'm saying is "what did that 40% want to do that can be improved so they stay on their own terms". To me they came in wanting a diverse PvE experience, and they got the barely passable red crosses and rocks that is EVE PvE. Make EVE PvE more varied and group friendly and they will get what they came for and likely stay longer.

Say for example you run a soup shop, and you sell an amazing chicken soup. You also sell a tomato soup from a tin.
50% of your walk ins don;t fancy soup and leave.
40% come in for tomato soup, but don;t come back because it's terrible.
10% come for the chicken soup and love it, returning every day.

Why try to find ways to make the 40% love chicken soup when you could simply make your tomato soup better? You've already done the hard part of getting them in the store, Now you just need to help them enjoy what they came in for.

Does that not make sense?

I think making war decs cost prohibitive for just trolling would go a long way.