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War decs are holding people back from corps and real pvp.

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Ghoest	Posted - 2006.10.07 03:54:00 - [1] Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2006 04:05:19 Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2006 04:04:47 Its counter intuative but true. A lot of carebears would form or joinr small corps which would lead them to beigger and better things in EVE - including 0.0 Your standard carebear wants nothing to do with a gate gank in Pator or Rens. From a conceptual perspective it also make no sense. Why would the police allow a small group carebears to be killed and ganked at will by local thugs just because they made a corp? The system should be changed so that small corps WITH NO TERRITORY OR ALLIANCE get protection in high sec. If someone wants to declae war and attack in low sec fine. Its counter intuative but in the long run this will make for more PVP. Currently all these people just stay in NPC corps so nothing is lost. NOTE: This is an observation by me on how to improve the game. I pretty much live in low sec anyway. EDIT: to clarify - you could still declare war on the corps. They would simply be safe in high sec. If the "carebear" corp declared the war then they would be vulnerable every where. Wherever you went - here you are.
Maria Ravenwind Gallente Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.07 03:59:00 - [2] Maybe if I'm quick enough, I'll be the first person to say NO WAY! That would damage what makes EVE so great. Why would you want to make carebears invincible??? It wouldn't make sense to take even the sllightest bit of a threat away from them, theyd be free to do anything then. I hate my Exclamation mark! I Am No Alt.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.10.07 04:02:00 - [3] They are already free - they stay in NPC corps. At least this way you could attack them in low sec with out taking security hits. Wherever you went - here you are.
Gift Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.10.07 04:24:00 - [4] No thanks, next idea please. Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.10.07 04:28:00 - [5] Its a lot better than the impossible idea you guys keep droning - boot people from NPC corps. People will quite the game if they dont have an option to be safe in high sec. It would be better in the long run if they at least joined corps early on in stead of learning to play the game as solo carebears. Wherever you went - here you are.
Michayel Lyon Contention Inc	Posted - 2006.10.07 05:59:00 - [6] A better solution would probably be to raise the cost of wardec'ing a corp, and allowing individuals in NPC corps to be wardec'd. People in the noob corps should be safe for the first three months of the game or until they leave the noob corp, whatever happens first. I've also read some ideas on wardecing a certain corp in a certain area only. If you want to keep a certain person away from a certain agent, wardec his corp in that system. If you want to keep that rivaling mining corp away from the juicy Omber in your constellation, wardec them and let your superior military wing convince them to mine Veldspar far far away. If you want to secure that trading route through Placid, wardec that corp and shoot their haulers all the way from Orvolle to Stacmon.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.07 06:07:00 - [7] do i understand it right?? you want to remove (some) PvP from hi-sec (wardeccing corp that is) ... and in the end there will be more PvP and happy carebears?? dunno .. i'm a bit puzzled with this logic and btw - how do you define a "carebear corp"?? ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Xipe Totec	Posted - 2006.10.07 06:12:00 - [8] I have been on the receiving end of unilateral wardecs too, so I know how it feels. I dont think however that the system should be changed as such, but how about increasing the price for a unilateral wardec exponentially with time. So it gets more and more expensive to run a war unilaterally. This also could intensify pvp as the declaring side would have to "produce results" more quickly in order to avoid the increasing cost in the long run. A unilateral wardec would no longer be a flat tax to immunely attack carebears in hi sec, yet it would still be available if you REALLY have to take action against somebody, even in hisec. But you would need to bring your campaign to a successful end in a reasonable time (dont real wars get more and more expensive too?) ... ... just a thought :-) PS. EvE wouldnt be EvE withou pvp, dont misunderstand me !
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.10.07 06:13:00 - [9] Hell no we won't go.. or something! Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps.
Tunajuice	Posted - 2006.10.07 06:14:00 - [10] An even better idea is to auto boot people out of the newb corps at 3 months or 3 mil skillpoints, whichever comes first. You want to be in fed space, you have to take the risk of your corp being wardecked.
Gift Amarr Loot	Posted - 2006.10.07 06:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Ghoest Its a lot better than the impossible idea you guys keep droning - boot people from NPC corps. Please don't say "you guys" as I've never commented on that idea. Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.10.07 06:44:00 - [12] Punishing NPC corp members isnt the answer. Why? Because its bad for business on CCPs part. From a game perspective nothing is gained by attacking a group of NPCers who dont have territory while they are in high sec. In these cases "war" is just a way to get around the police when you gank them. When you think about it "war" implies an ownership the is either being aggressed or defended. The end result is packed NPC corps and new players not being introduced to organised activity which would lead them into low sec and in time into 0.0 Wherever you went - here you are.
Oleg K77	Posted - 2006.10.07 06:46:00 - [13] Edited by: Oleg K77 on 07/10/2006 06:47:54 PvP in EVE suck (imho). Wardec mechanics suck ever more. 1000 men corp can declare war to 2 men corp for silly 50 mil charge and get unrestricted kill rights on them. And "they" wonder why "carebears" prefer npc corp and "they" constantly whine about "nerf npc corps".
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2006.10.07 06:50:00 - [14] Not everyone in EvE wants to pvp! Myself, I don't have a problem with it, I joined a corp who were at war after 2 weeks in game quite happily and enjoyed myself thoroughly because the war decking corp , Spacerats played almost fair, instead of coming after me in my Thrasher with HACs and BS they tended to only use T1 cruisers and frigates en mass, and only went bigger if they knew you were flying something bigger. With the current war dec system, you get "pirate" corps war decking young corps for easy kills, with no risk to themselves, go after guys in their first cruisers / mining barges with HACs and BS, which imo is even **tier than carebearing. Less reward and you get to really up someones day, with virtually no risk to your shiney 200 mill plaything. This causes people to leave teh game, because they cannot progress beyond where they are, because they are unable to earn isk to fund replacement ships, as each time they undock, some *** in a Vaga WTFBBQPWNS them. This makes them unhappy, so they leave the game. If Spacerats had used this tactic, I would have stayed docked and worked on learning skills (something I really should have done at the time, because I'm HAVING to do them now). Just because you disagree with someones style of play, doesn'tmean that they have to conform to your views. Personnaly I never mine, but I'm glad other people do because then I have ships to fly about in that are better than the tier 2 frigates that npc corps make. I do run the odd mission, but don;t begrudge the guys who have been in noob corps from day 1 whoring lvl 4 agents in their CNRs collecting all the loveley named items they sell. I like to put these on my ships because I either cannot afford T2 or haven't skilled for it yet. Personally I quite like the OP's idea. Yes EvE is brutal, and I like it that way, but for the new guys coming in, we don't want to drive them away, or CCP will go bust, and we won't have a game to play. Akkarin Linkage <3 - Immy [green]Please resize image
Clone Delta	Posted - 2006.10.07 07:52:00 - [15] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Hell no we won't go.. or something! Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps. the other option some people like is to force carebears out of the NPC corps after a set time. of course there is nothing to stop a carebear using an alt to set up a corp with 0 tax - when wardec the carebears resign and join another alt corp. do you realy want that?
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.07 07:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Clone Delta Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Hell no we won't go.. or something! Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps the other option some people like is to force carebears out of the NPC corps after a set time. of course there is nothing to stop a carebear using an alt to set up a corp with 0 tax - when wardec the carebears resign and join another alt corp. do you realy want that? GMs stop that. Corp hopping to avoid a war is an exploit. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
robacz Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.07 07:59:00 - [17] IMO, there should be mutual agreement on war to remove CONCORD protection in highsec. If one side doesnt agree with war, I dont see why should CONCORD watch how they are being murdered, if same CONCORD protected them few hours ago. Only difference is, that someone said "I want to kill these folks!". If there is no mutual agreement, war is still running, but cant be fought in highsec. Also in lowsec, you would get sec rating hit for killing war targets without mutual agreement. In 0.0 you can kill whoever you want. To make it more fair, there should be option for non-mutual wars based on previus aggression - if this corp aggressed your members before, you can declare war on them and CONCORD will not help them - they aggressed you so they now have to take consequences. ___________ Buying/Selling: Implants, Cargo Expanders and more Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.07 08:05:00 - [18] Thankfully we know CCP won't do this. Next!
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.07 08:30:00 - [19] And here I thought this was going to be about pushing the war dec limit up to ten outbound wars for ordinary corps. I guess the system must have reached middleground on concensus. Now nerf the npc corps because they seem to occupy half the portraits in local whenever I visit empire. (Empire freaks me out whenever I go there and cruise by all those eerie, silent neutrals.) NPC corps should get ingame fora for wantads, services, recruitment and guides. Anyone should be able to access newbie corp "resources" even if they get bumped to private corps for free. Only selecting the name of a corp and registering it should cost isk. Without completely certain objectives for NPC corps, I should get bumped to "Lygos' Corp" automatically. Really, either a player or CCP could make such a thing using IGB, it doesn't matter who so long as it was good enough for CCP to support in the tutorial. It could be a wonderful thing for new players and corp seekers beyond the spammed channels and message boards. Wish I knew how, but I'm too suspicious of numbers to learn any code. ECM
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.07 08:58:00 - [20] Highsec = The Developed World Lowsec = Third World Countries - Brazil etc 0.0 = Unsettled "Wild West" areas Jita = New York City Rens = London Ours = Paris Amarr Prime = Berlin Highsec Piracy and Wardec = Mafia war. How many people get shot in New York City every year? Alot. How many people get away with it? Quite a few. Insurance Fraud? Absolutely. Profit from Murder? Yup. And yet people still wake up every morning, put on their clothes and take the Metro to work. If you get mugged, file your police report and go back to your routine. The same rules of life apply to Eve. 1) Don't walk into New York City with 5 million dollars in your pockets. Someone's going to club you on the head and jack you. Same with driving a hauler full of Zyd into Jita. 2) Lowsec is like walking through East New York. You don't stop. You don't loiter. You walk fast, and if you feel in danger, run. You don't walk in there with a hauler full of Zyd, you're gonna get robbed and its your own fault. Well I'm sorry that you don't like how things work in the Eve Universe. I'm not willing to change the game to WoW so we can be more "carebear friendly." If I wanted WoW, I'd be playing it.
Aadi Mathais Minmatar Keepers of the Holy Bagel	Posted - 2006.10.07 09:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Tunajuice An even better idea is to auto boot people out of the newb corps at 3 months or 3 mil skillpoints, whichever comes first. You want to be in fed space, you have to take the risk of your corp being wardecked. Where do people go then? If you're not in a corp your corp can't be war-decced.
Oleg K77	Posted - 2006.10.07 09:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Cipher7 Highsec = The Developed World Lowsec = Third World Countries - Brazil etc 0.0 = Unsettled "Wild West" areas ... Your parallels between EVE and RL make me laugh. If criminals shoot each other in middle of NY City police watch and yawn just because criminals in "war"? If criminals kill innocent and got killed by police, police allows to other criminals take innocent's staff and go away? And insurers pay money criminal's family?
stoats girl	Posted - 2006.10.07 09:59:00 - [23] That's why most filthy 0.0 carebears use alts for empire work. <--- like this one.
Richard Stryker Old Detroit Crime Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.07 10:15:00 - [24] First I'm gonna say that in my own thinking the term carebear is merely someone who doesn't want any risk. I know many industrialists who brave the riskier area's of eve in search of great profit and accept this amazing balance that does make eve what it is. I for one don't want this to become a WoW either as an industrialist i feel much more accomplishment in eve as it actually matters when your successful. Whether your definition differs i don't know but thats how I see it. However, after playing since may of 2003, for those who wish to excel and be an industrialist, a corp offers you very little. Why Start an industrial corp: reason 1: you can setup a pos - this gives you the ability to have your own labs, and even do moon mining etc.. reason 2: 7 hangers to keep things organized and a way to lock down blueprints to more safely share among fellow like minded industrialists at the end of the day thats all i can think of after 3 years. Why NOT to start and industrial corp: reason 1: war dec's are bad for business and nothing attracts lame war dec's like an industrial corp does. reason 2: HUGE trust issue's. this cover's everthing from those locked bpo's being somehow unlocked, someone cancelling anothers production job (think if that was a mothership someone cancelled and you loose 50% of the mins), your freighter being attacked by corp mates who want your hold (not a problem yet, but could be once freighters drop cans), corp wallet theft, pos offlining and destruction etc etc etc. At the end of the day, a group of like minded people who share a forum, and ts or vent so they can stay awake during mining sessions would be really better off not being in a corp and just keeping contact through an ingame channel with out of game forums and voice support. If you wanted some of hte benefits of a corp its best then to just have your production research toon skilled up and staying in station, with your main who mines and hauls out of a corp. that way you've gotten rid of the war dec situation all together. Now I'm not saying this is right infact it seems very very wrong when you look at it. I think it has a lot to do with the failings of corps on a whole. I have to say since may of 2003 i've been in several industrial corps and its amazing how over time they all become combat corps and the industrialists drift back to the noob corps to build their stuff. I don't want it to be made safe like WoW and other games but something needs to be done I'm not quite sure of what though.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Richard Stryker reason 2: HUGE trust issue's. this cover's everthing from those locked bpo's being somehow unlocked, someone cancelling anothers production job (think if that was a mothership someone cancelled and you loose 50% of the mins), your freighter being attacked by corp mates who want your hold (not a problem yet, but could be once freighters drop cans), corp wallet theft, pos offlining and destruction etc etc etc. only true if there's no evaluation process before joining/becoming full member of a corp. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Verone	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:16:00 - [26] Originally by: Cipher7 Good stuff. Probably the best analogy of how Eve's security system works I've seen since I started playing. BACKSTORY AND FAN FICTION
Mak'shar Karrde Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:17:00 - [27] If we get rid of war decs, gatecampers, bubbles, suicide attacks, gangs, alliances, NBSI, improve T2 insurance, add module insurance, seed more T2 BPO's and make PvP completely consentual; more people will PvP (or say they will). I don't think it's worth it.
Gabby05 Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:43:00 - [28] Probably be nice if the corp that surrendered and accepted the demands layed out that they'd be guaranteed 1 week or more breather meaning the opposing corp once accepting surrender couldnt re-declare a day later.
Sin Caiten	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:46:00 - [29] Worst idea ever!
Richard Stryker Old Detroit Crime Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:48:00 - [30] Edited by: Richard Stryker on 07/10/2006 11:49:17 Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Richard Stryker reason 2: HUGE trust issue's. this cover's everthing from those locked bpo's being somehow unlocked, someone cancelling anothers production job (think if that was a mothership someone cancelled and you loose 50% of the mins), your freighter being attacked by corp mates who want your hold (not a problem yet, but could be once freighters drop cans), corp wallet theft, pos offlining and destruction etc etc etc. only true if there's no evaluation process before joining/becoming full member of a corp. How long should that evaluation period be? GHSC dude ripped that corp off after 5+ months.. other peeps on this forum have posted about year + members doing that. No evaluation process gets rid of that. as for the war dec mention.. last indy corp i was in was had war dec's for 4 of the last 6 months. pretty useless.

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