| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ghoest
   |
Posted - 2006.10.07 03:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2006 04:05:19
Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2006 04:04:47
Its counter intuative but true.
A lot of carebears would form or joinr small corps which would lead them to beigger and better things in EVE - including 0.0
Your standard carebear wants nothing to do with a gate gank in Pator or Rens. From a conceptual perspective it also make no sense. Why would the police allow a small group carebears to be killed and ganked at will by local thugs just because they made a corp?
The system should be changed so that small corps WITH NO TERRITORY OR ALLIANCE get protection in high sec. If someone wants to declae war and attack in low sec fine.
Its counter intuative but in the long run this will make for more PVP. Currently all these people just stay in NPC corps so nothing is lost.
NOTE: This is an observation by me on how to improve the game. I pretty much live in low sec anyway.
EDIT: to clarify - you could still declare war on the corps. They would simply be safe in high sec. If the "carebear" corp declared the war then they would be vulnerable every where.
Wherever you went - here you are.
|
Maria Ravenwind
Gallente
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 03:59:00 -
[2]
Maybe if I'm quick enough, I'll be the first person to say NO WAY! That would damage what makes EVE so great. Why would you want to make carebears invincible??? It wouldn't make sense to take even the sllightest bit of a threat away from them, theyd be free to do anything then.
I hate my Exclamation mark!
I Am No Alt. |
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 04:02:00 -
[3]
They are already free - they stay in NPC corps.
At least this way you could attack them in low sec with out taking security hits.
Wherever you went - here you are.
|
Gift
Amarr
Loot
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 04:24:00 -
[4]
No thanks, next idea please.
Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 04:28:00 -
[5]
Its a lot better than the impossible idea you guys keep droning - boot people from NPC corps.
People will quite the game if they dont have an option to be safe in high sec.
It would be better in the long run if they at least joined corps early on in stead of learning to play the game as solo carebears.
Wherever you went - here you are.
|
Michayel Lyon
Contention Inc
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 05:59:00 -
[6]
A better solution would probably be to raise the cost of wardec'ing a corp, and allowing individuals in NPC corps to be wardec'd. People in the noob corps should be safe for the first three months of the game or until they leave the noob corp, whatever happens first.
I've also read some ideas on wardecing a certain corp in a certain area only. If you want to keep a certain person away from a certain agent, wardec his corp in that system. If you want to keep that rivaling mining corp away from the juicy Omber in your constellation, wardec them and let your superior military wing convince them to mine Veldspar far far away. If you want to secure that trading route through Placid, wardec that corp and shoot their haulers all the way from Orvolle to Stacmon. 
|
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 06:07:00 -
[7]
do i understand it right??
you want to remove (some) PvP from hi-sec (wardeccing corp that is) ... and in the end there will be more PvP and happy carebears?? 
dunno .. i'm a bit puzzled with this logic
and btw - how do you define a "carebear corp"??
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
|
Xipe Totec
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 06:12:00 -
[8]
I have been on the receiving end of unilateral wardecs too, so I know how it feels. I dont think however that the system should be changed as such, but how about increasing the price for a unilateral wardec exponentially with time. So it gets more and more expensive to run a war unilaterally. This also could intensify pvp as the declaring side would have to "produce results" more quickly in order to avoid the increasing cost in the long run. A unilateral wardec would no longer be a flat tax to immunely attack carebears in hi sec, yet it would still be available if you REALLY have to take action against somebody, even in hisec. But you would need to bring your campaign to a successful end in a reasonable time (dont real wars get more and more expensive too?) ...
... just a thought :-)
PS. EvE wouldnt be EvE withou pvp, dont misunderstand me !
|
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 06:13:00 -
[9]
Hell no we won't go.. or something!
Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps.
|
Tunajuice
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 06:14:00 -
[10]
An even better idea is to auto boot people out of the newb corps at 3 months or 3 mil skillpoints, whichever comes first. You want to be in fed space, you have to take the risk of your corp being wardecked.
|
Gift
Amarr
Loot
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 06:19:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Ghoest
Its a lot better than the impossible idea you guys keep droning - boot people from NPC corps.
Please don't say "you guys" as I've never commented on that idea.
Pirates of Eve, Join channel "Pirate" Today!
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 06:44:00 -
[12]
Punishing NPC corp members isnt the answer. Why? Because its bad for business on CCPs part.
From a game perspective nothing is gained by attacking a group of NPCers who dont have territory while they are in high sec.
In these cases "war" is just a way to get around the police when you gank them.
When you think about it "war" implies an ownership the is either being aggressed or defended.
The end result is packed NPC corps and new players not being introduced to organised activity which would lead them into low sec and in time into 0.0
Wherever you went - here you are.
|
Oleg K77
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 06:46:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Oleg K77 on 07/10/2006 06:47:54
PvP in EVE suck (imho). Wardec mechanics suck ever more. 1000 men corp can declare war to 2 men corp for silly 50 mil charge and get unrestricted kill rights on them. And "they" wonder why "carebears" prefer npc corp and "they" constantly whine about "nerf npc corps".
|
Akkarin Pagan
Minmatar
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 06:50:00 -
[14]
Not everyone in EvE wants to pvp! Myself, I don't have a problem with it, I joined a corp who were at war after 2 weeks in game quite happily and enjoyed myself thoroughly because the war decking corp , Spacerats played almost fair, instead of coming after me in my Thrasher with HACs and BS they tended to only use T1 cruisers and frigates en mass, and only went bigger if they knew you were flying something bigger.
With the current war dec system, you get "pirate" corps war decking young corps for easy kills, with no risk to themselves, go after guys in their first cruisers / mining barges with HACs and BS, which imo is even ****tier than carebearing. Less reward and you get to really **** up someones day, with virtually no risk to your shiney 200 mill plaything. This causes people to leave teh game, because they cannot progress beyond where they are, because they are unable to earn isk to fund replacement ships, as each time they undock, some ***** in a Vaga WTFBBQPWNS them. This makes them unhappy, so they leave the game.
If Spacerats had used this tactic, I would have stayed docked and worked on learning skills (something I really should have done at the time, because I'm HAVING to do them now).
Just because you disagree with someones style of play, doesn'tmean that they have to conform to your views. Personnaly I never mine, but I'm glad other people do because then I have ships to fly about in that are better than the tier 2 frigates that npc corps make. I do run the odd mission, but don;t begrudge the guys who have been in noob corps from day 1 whoring lvl 4 agents in their CNRs collecting all the loveley named items they sell. I like to put these on my ships because I either cannot afford T2 or haven't skilled for it yet.
Personally I quite like the OP's idea. Yes EvE is brutal, and I like it that way, but for the new guys coming in, we don't want to drive them away, or CCP will go bust, and we won't have a game to play.
Akkarin
Linkage
<3 - Immy
[green]Please resize image |
Clone Delta
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 07:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Hell no we won't go.. or something!
Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps.
the other option some people like is to force carebears out of the NPC corps after a set time.
of course there is nothing to stop a carebear using an alt to set up a corp with 0 tax - when wardec the carebears resign and join another alt corp.
do you realy want that?
|
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 07:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Clone Delta
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Hell no we won't go.. or something!
Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps
the other option some people like is to force carebears out of the NPC corps after a set time.
of course there is nothing to stop a carebear using an alt to set up a corp with 0 tax - when wardec the carebears resign and join another alt corp.
do you realy want that?
GMs stop that. Corp hopping to avoid a war is an exploit.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
robacz
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 07:59:00 -
[17]
IMO, there should be mutual agreement on war to remove CONCORD protection in highsec. If one side doesnt agree with war, I dont see why should CONCORD watch how they are being murdered, if same CONCORD protected them few hours ago. Only difference is, that someone said "I want to kill these folks!".
If there is no mutual agreement, war is still running, but cant be fought in highsec. Also in lowsec, you would get sec rating hit for killing war targets without mutual agreement. In 0.0 you can kill whoever you want. 
To make it more fair, there should be option for non-mutual wars based on previus aggression - if this corp aggressed your members before, you can declare war on them and CONCORD will not help them - they aggressed you so they now have to take consequences.
___________
Buying/Selling: Implants, Cargo Expanders and more
Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers |
Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 08:05:00 -
[18]
Thankfully we know CCP won't do this. Next!
|
Lygos
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 08:30:00 -
[19]
And here I thought this was going to be about pushing the war dec limit up to ten outbound wars for ordinary corps.
I guess the system must have reached middleground on concensus. Now nerf the npc corps because they seem to occupy half the portraits in local whenever I visit empire. (Empire freaks me out whenever I go there and cruise by all those eerie, silent neutrals.)
NPC corps should get ingame fora for wantads, services, recruitment and guides. Anyone should be able to access newbie corp "resources" even if they get bumped to private corps for free. Only selecting the name of a corp and registering it should cost isk. Without completely certain objectives for NPC corps, I should get bumped to "Lygos' Corp" automatically.
Really, either a player or CCP could make such a thing using IGB, it doesn't matter who so long as it was good enough for CCP to support in the tutorial. It could be a wonderful thing for new players and corp seekers beyond the spammed channels and message boards. Wish I knew how, but I'm too suspicious of numbers to learn any code.
|
Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 08:58:00 -
[20]
Highsec = The Developed World
Lowsec = Third World Countries - Brazil etc
0.0 = Unsettled "Wild West" areas
Jita = New York City
Rens = London
Ours = Paris
Amarr Prime = Berlin
Highsec Piracy and Wardec = Mafia war.
How many people get shot in New York City every year?
Alot.
How many people get away with it?
Quite a few.
Insurance Fraud?
Absolutely.
Profit from Murder?
Yup.
And yet people still wake up every morning, put on their clothes and take the Metro to work. If you get mugged, file your police report and go back to your routine.
The same rules of life apply to Eve.
1) Don't walk into New York City with 5 million dollars in your pockets. Someone's going to club you on the head and jack you. Same with driving a hauler full of Zyd into Jita.
2) Lowsec is like walking through East New York. You don't stop. You don't loiter. You walk fast, and if you feel in danger, run. You don't walk in there with a hauler full of Zyd, you're gonna get robbed and its your own fault.
Well I'm sorry that you don't like how things work in the Eve Universe.
I'm not willing to change the game to WoW so we can be more "carebear friendly."
If I wanted WoW, I'd be playing it.
|
Aadi Mathais
Minmatar
Keepers of the Holy Bagel
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 09:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tunajuice
An even better idea is to auto boot people out of the newb corps at 3 months or 3 mil skillpoints, whichever comes first. You want to be in fed space, you have to take the risk of your corp being wardecked.
Where do people go then? If you're not in a corp your corp can't be war-decced.
|
Oleg K77
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 09:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cipher7
Highsec = The Developed World
Lowsec = Third World Countries - Brazil etc
0.0 = Unsettled "Wild West" areas
...
Your parallels between EVE and RL make me laugh.
If criminals shoot each other in middle of NY City police watch and yawn just because criminals in "war"?
If criminals kill innocent and got killed by police, police allows to other criminals take innocent's staff and go away? And insurers pay money criminal's family?
|
stoats girl
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 09:59:00 -
[23]
That's why most filthy 0.0 carebears use alts for empire work.
<--- like this one.
|
Richard Stryker
Old Detroit Crime Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 10:15:00 -
[24]
First I'm gonna say that in my own thinking the term carebear is merely someone who doesn't want any risk. I know many industrialists who brave the riskier area's of eve in search of great profit and accept this amazing balance that does make eve what it is. I for one don't want this to become a WoW either as an industrialist i feel much more accomplishment in eve as it actually matters when your successful. Whether your definition differs i don't know but thats how I see it.
However, after playing since may of 2003, for those who wish to excel and be an industrialist, a corp offers you very little.
Why Start an industrial corp:
reason 1: you can setup a pos - this gives you the ability to have your own labs, and even do moon mining etc..
reason 2: 7 hangers to keep things organized and a way to lock down blueprints to more safely share among fellow like minded industrialists
at the end of the day thats all i can think of after 3 years.
Why NOT to start and industrial corp:
reason 1: war dec's are bad for business and nothing attracts lame war dec's like an industrial corp does.
reason 2: HUGE trust issue's. this cover's everthing from those locked bpo's being somehow unlocked, someone cancelling anothers production job (think if that was a mothership someone cancelled and you loose 50% of the mins), your freighter being attacked by corp mates who want your hold (not a problem yet, but could be once freighters drop cans), corp wallet theft, pos offlining and destruction etc etc etc.
At the end of the day, a group of like minded people who share a forum, and ts or vent so they can stay awake during mining sessions would be really better off not being in a corp and just keeping contact through an ingame channel with out of game forums and voice support.
If you wanted some of hte benefits of a corp its best then to just have your production research toon skilled up and staying in station, with your main who mines and hauls out of a corp. that way you've gotten rid of the war dec situation all together.
Now I'm not saying this is right infact it seems very very wrong when you look at it. I think it has a lot to do with the failings of corps on a whole. I have to say since may of 2003 i've been in several industrial corps and its amazing how over time they all become combat corps and the industrialists drift back to the noob corps to build their stuff.
I don't want it to be made safe like WoW and other games but something needs to be done I'm not quite sure of what though.
|
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Richard Stryker
reason 2: HUGE trust issue's. this cover's everthing from those locked bpo's being somehow unlocked, someone cancelling anothers production job (think if that was a mothership someone cancelled and you loose 50% of the mins), your freighter being attacked by corp mates who want your hold (not a problem yet, but could be once freighters drop cans), corp wallet theft, pos offlining and destruction etc etc etc.
only true if there's no evaluation process before joining/becoming full member of a corp.
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
|
Verone
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cipher7
Good stuff.
Probably the best analogy of how Eve's security system works I've seen since I started playing.
BACKSTORY AND FAN FICTION
|
Mak'shar Karrde
Minmatar
UK Corp
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:17:00 -
[27]
If we get rid of war decs, gatecampers, bubbles, suicide attacks, gangs, alliances, NBSI, improve T2 insurance, add module insurance, seed more T2 BPO's and make PvP completely consentual; more people will PvP (or say they will).
I don't think it's worth it.
|
Gabby05
Amarr
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:43:00 -
[28]
Probably be nice if the corp that surrendered and accepted the demands layed out that they'd be guaranteed 1 week or more breather meaning the opposing corp once accepting surrender couldnt re-declare a day later.
|
Sin Caiten
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:46:00 -
[29]
Worst idea ever!
|
Richard Stryker
Old Detroit Crime Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:48:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Richard Stryker on 07/10/2006 11:49:17
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Originally by: Richard Stryker
reason 2: HUGE trust issue's. this cover's everthing from those locked bpo's being somehow unlocked, someone cancelling anothers production job (think if that was a mothership someone cancelled and you loose 50% of the mins), your freighter being attacked by corp mates who want your hold (not a problem yet, but could be once freighters drop cans), corp wallet theft, pos offlining and destruction etc etc etc.
only true if there's no evaluation process before joining/becoming full member of a corp.
How long should that evaluation period be? GHSC dude ripped that corp off after 5+ months.. other peeps on this forum have posted about year + members doing that. No evaluation process gets rid of that.
as for the war dec mention.. last indy corp i was in was had war dec's for 4 of the last 6 months. pretty useless.
|
Chewan Mesa
Beagle Corp
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:53:00 -
[31]
Everything in EVE has a risk, and creating and being in an own player corp with more possibilities and freedom yields the risk of a wardec.
You said you need something to defend for being wardecced, a player-corp has its corp, its assets, its members and its freedom to do whatever a npc-corp cant do to defend.
If you cant defend that, you either keep a low profile and avoid getting decced, or you dont risk it.
|
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:56:00 -
[32]
No. Empire grifer wars are a right of passage for a young corperation.
Originally by: Wrangler
Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
|
Michuh
Vortex.
Maelstrom Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 11:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cipher7
Highsec = The Developed World
Lowsec = Third World Countries - Brazil etc
0.0 = Unsettled "Wild West" areas
Jita = New York City
Rens = London
Ours = Paris
Amarr Prime = Berlin
Highsec Piracy and Wardec = Mafia war.
How many people get shot in New York City every year?
Alot.
How many people get away with it?
Quite a few.
Insurance Fraud?
Absolutely.
Profit from Murder?
Yup.
And yet people still wake up every morning, put on their clothes and take the Metro to work. If you get mugged, file your police report and go back to your routine.
The same rules of life apply to Eve.
1) Don't walk into New York City with 5 million dollars in your pockets. Someone's going to club you on the head and jack you. Same with driving a hauler full of Zyd into Jita.
2) Lowsec is like walking through East New York. You don't stop. You don't loiter. You walk fast, and if you feel in danger, run. You don't walk in there with a hauler full of Zyd, you're gonna get robbed and its your own fault.
Well I'm sorry that you don't like how things work in the Eve Universe.
I'm not willing to change the game to WoW so we can be more "carebear friendly."
If I wanted WoW, I'd be playing it.
I love it.. nice post, Its after putting in words, some of the feelings Ive had about the whole empire pvp situation.
Maelstrom Recruitment
|
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 13:41:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Richard Stryker
Edited by: Richard Stryker on 07/10/2006 11:49:17
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Originally by: Richard Stryker
reason 2: HUGE trust issue's. this cover's everthing from those locked bpo's being somehow unlocked, someone cancelling anothers production job (think if that was a mothership someone cancelled and you loose 50% of the mins), your freighter being attacked by corp mates who want your hold (not a problem yet, but could be once freighters drop cans), corp wallet theft, pos offlining and destruction etc etc etc.
only true if there's no evaluation process before joining/becoming full member of a corp.
How long should that evaluation period be? GHSC dude ripped that corp off after 5+ months.. other peeps on this forum have posted about year + members doing that. No evaluation process gets rid of that.
no it won't ... but saying that you'll for sure get ripped off when you join a player corp (as you said - there's a "HUGE trust issue") is imho really paranoid and absolutly counter-productive. it's like saying "i never ever want to get in contact with other people because they MIGHT be criminals/bad/listening to the wrong music/reading the wrong books and so on ...
but i also have to say - i don't have any experience with corp theft and such ... maybe i was damn lucky so far - or it's NOT a huge issue at all (if you have a reasonable recruiting and managment policy in your corp)
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
|
Izo Azlion
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 13:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sinnbad Mayhem
I am a noob. I joined a corp. They went to war. I got on kill mails. We won. I had fun. Period. 
There we go. Thats it. Thats what we play for. Screw all the stupid overthought reasons about war decs. It happens, go have fun with it.
Izo Azlion.
---
|
Samirol
Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 13:57:00 -
[36]
the carebear trollings seem especially ludicrous lately
Save Low-sec |
Jan Riksma
Dark Reality
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 14:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot
Originally by: robacz
IMO, there should be mutual agreement on war to remove CONCORD protection in highsec. If one side doesnt agree with war, I dont see why should CONCORD watch how they are being murdered, if same CONCORD protected them few hours ago. Only difference is, that someone said "I want to kill these folks!".
If there is no mutual agreement, war is still running, but cant be fought in highsec. Also in lowsec, you would get sec rating hit for killing war targets without mutual agreement. In 0.0 you can kill whoever you want.
To make it more fair, there should be option for non-mutual wars based on previus aggression - if this corp aggressed your members before, you can declare war on them and CONCORD will not help them - they aggressed you so they now have to take consequences.
I'm totally for this. I'm also in favor of an increasing scale of cost to keep a War going.
Why does war have to be mutal it normaly isn't and high sec isn't safe space its safer then low sec and 0.0 and afterall this is a pvp game if you mine, shoot, build or buy stuff it all comes to player interaction. High sec is protected enough as it is and if ccp starts to protect it furthermore they better turn it into a pve game.
|
Gonada
Gallente
Cross Roads
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 14:18:00 -
[38]
the blathering of carebears is not a pretty sight.
nor is war
get used to it.
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
|
Hephaesteus
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 14:31:00 -
[39]
Maybe the way to go is have a war deccing system where by only corps of a similiar size can dec each other. Something like this
Big corp cannot dec a much smaller corp, but a small corp can dec a much bigger one or one of a similiar size.
Would make some griefer corps think twice if they had a chance of losing and you wouldn't have a situation where multiple battleships camp a station waiting for one player to undock.
-----------------------------------------------
Knowing all, when all is unknown.
|
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
In Articulo Mortis
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 15:03:00 -
[40]
I think the war system is pretty screwed up in the sense that they can happen in empire space at all! I mean, you don't see Panama and Uruguay going at it on American soil, now do you? At the same time, when you're at war you can't just waltz your armies into someone else's territory for protection when things go bad. So this is how it should go: you cannot fight in empire at all, but you can't enter empire space either. Thus, carebears can stay safe in empire, but as soon as they enter low sec, they can't come back if they are war declared. That way, everybody is happy (except griefers, but in my view, that is a good thing).
FOR THE EMPEROR!
The Second NtV (Noob to Vet) Lottery |
Boratora
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 15:09:00 -
[41]
How is this for a start:
1) You can wardec who you want, when you want. After the second week the cost of the war raises by 50% per week thereafter. For realism's sake, constant violence between two gangs would attract police.
2) The wardec cost is cut in half for both should the other side agree to the war. If the two sides are mutually engaging in violence, all gloves are off. There is no rising penalty.
3) A mechanism for enforceable peace deals. If two sides agree to non-agression for three weeks then so be it. If one side violates the agreement than they pay through the roof for the violation, be it a fine and higher wardec costs. You can build in a bill system to payoff the other corp built into the agreement, like rent.
4) No fighting at all in 1.0. There are safe havens even in RL. If a corp really feels like turtling in a system then they can do so, at the expense of mind-numbing boredom. There is no risk nor reward.
|
Red Ochre
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 16:29:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Red Ochre on 07/10/2006 16:30:34
i like to hand out my opinion from time to time and if you read my previous posts, you also see i like to critique alot, belittle the belittlers, use the common sense hammer, and basically let people know what opinion verse opinionated is. your post is one such example, i will modify and then present it to you op, i will turn it into an opinion post instead of an opinionated what you should do post, yes you did, now shut up and read.
Originally by: Ghoest
Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2006 04:05:19
Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2006 04:04:47
Its counter intuative but true.
A lot of new players would form or join small corps which would lead them to bigger and better things in EVE - including 0.0
Your standard new player wants nothing to do with a gate gank in Pator or Rens. From a conceptual perspective it also make no sense. Why would the police allow the majority of hi-sec or a group new players to be killed and ganked at will by local thugs just because they made a corp?
The system might be changed so that small corps WITH NO TERRITORY OR ALLIANCE get protection in high sec. If someone wants to declare war and attack in low sec fine.
Its counter intuative, i just used the tagline "counter intuitive" in the wrong context but thats just me, but in the long run this may make for more PVP. Currently one reason all these people just stay in NPC corps so nothing is lost.
NOTE: This is an opinionated post by me, corrected by that nosy biatch red ochre on how together we might improve the game. I pretty much live in low sec anyway.
EDIT: to clarify - you could still declare war on the corps. They would simply be safe in high sec. If the "new players and their new corps" declared war then they would be vulnerable every where.
see, isnt that better? 
.......shhhhh, no hate! no hate! |
Reckless Eddie
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 19:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Clone Delta
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Hell no we won't go.. or something!
Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps.
the other option some people like is to force carebears out of the NPC corps after a set time.
of course there is nothing to stop a carebear using an alt to set up a corp with 0 tax - when wardec the carebears resign and join another alt corp.
do you realy want that?
Sure. Why not?
Don't put your hand where you wouldn't put your face she said.
|
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 19:28:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 07/10/2006 19:34:47
Originally by: Clone Delta
the other option some people like is to force carebears out of the NPC corps after a set time.
Yeah, that's not my suggestion though.
Originally by: Clone Delta
of course there is nothing to stop a carebear using an alt to set up a corp with 0 tax - when wardec the carebears resign and join another alt corp.
do you realy want that?
People will always abuse game mechanics contrary to the spirit of the game, but that's not the central issue.
Players in NPC corps get a free ride - no tax, no wardecs, very low risk, boring for everyone and frustrating for those with a grudge they can't settle.
There should be a financial incentive to move out into player corps and become more involved by taking more risks. A 20% tax on NPC corps would do just fine.
Wanna hide in an NPC corp for Empire gate ganking duty and avoid war decs by indignant victims' corps? Fine, but you pay 20% of your earnings for the privilege.
Wanna hide in an NPC corp for Empire mining operations without the risk of being war decced by an Empire based extortionist corp? Fine, but you pay 20% of your earnings for the privilege.
|
Complacency's Bane
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 19:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Samirol
the carebear trollings seem especially ludicrous lately
Ehh. Thats just because after you cater to someone for so long, they get an entitlement complex.
|
Clone Delta
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 19:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Hell no we won't go.. or something!
Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps.
Taxing NPC corps carebears is not an incentive, its a punishment for staying in NPC corps.
Once the Carebear is in you corp - a carebear who does not want to be in you corp - other than the automatic tax, how are you going to get him to do anything for you?
|
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 19:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Clone Delta
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Hell no we won't go.. or something!
Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps.
Taxing NPC corps carebears is not an incentive, its a punishment for staying in NPC corps.
Once the Carebear is in you corp - a carebear who does not want to be in you corp - other than the automatic tax, how are you going to get him to do anything for you?
You encourage people to go where you want them, not only by making their destination more desireable, but by making their present situation less comfortable.
It's called game balance.
|
Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 19:51:00 -
[48]
RL comparisons, he?
So, lets see. I start a small corner coffee shop in, ohhh, downtown New York. Starbucks however doesn't like competition. So it sends a letter saying: "Oh my godzors, you sucks, war dec noob.". After that they buy an Abrahams tank, come down to my corner shop and blast it to hell. Then they turn on my car, house, wife, kids, grandma, and dog. Meanwhile the cops watch this and eat their donuts.
Could you have done this in the wild west? Probably.
Could you do this in a third world country? Maybe.
Can you do this in New York City? No chance!
See, your RL comparison doesn't work, never has, never will. And no support from your alts or griefer friends will change that. Why? Because in RL, empires (lets call them states) don't like their institutions to be war dec-ed. If you do, they WTFPWN you.
You want to war dec CAS? Fine with me, as long as Gallente war decs your corps as well. You want non-consentual combat? Lets see what happens when the entire Gallente faction puts the smack down on your sorry ass.
Now please child, go away and grow a brain.
|
Ibrich
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 19:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
RL comparisons, he?
So, lets see. I start a small corner coffee shop in, ohhh, downtown New York. Starbucks however doesn't like competition. So it sends a letter saying: "Oh my godzors, you sucks, war dec noob.". After that they buy an Abrahams tank, come down to my corner shop and blast it to hell. Then they turn on my car, house, wife, kids, grandma, and dog. Meanwhile the cops watch this and eat their donuts.
Could you have done this in the wild west? Probably.
Could you do this in a third world country? Maybe.
Can you do this in New York City? No chance!
See, your RL comparison doesn't work, never has, never will. And no support from your alts or griefer friends will change that. Why? Because in RL, empires (lets call them states) don't like their institutions to be war dec-ed. If you do, they WTFPWN you.
You want to war dec CAS? Fine with me, as long as Gallente war decs your corps as well. You want non-consentual combat? Lets see what happens when the entire Gallente faction puts the smack down on your sorry ass.
Now please child, go away and grow a brain.
Tank would be overkill, that's saying that you can't take a dreadnought into Jita... and that's right you can't. However, walking in with a large calibre handgun and shooting you to bits is quite possible... actually you usually get the option to pay a ****load of money first... or close down the shop... lol. Funny hey, that's completely RL and completely EVE, this is a part where RL comparison do soemwhat work... if you don't try to twist things out of proportion.
And if you mean if the entire NPC corp population of the gallente empire decides to fight... nobody would be impressed really.
|
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 19:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
RL comparisons, he?
So, lets see. I start a small corner coffee shop in, ohhh, downtown New York. Starbucks however doesn't like competition. So it sends a letter saying: "Oh my godzors, you sucks, war dec noob.". After that they buy an Abrahams tank, come down to my corner shop and blast it to hell. Then they turn on my car, house, wife, kids, grandma, and dog. Meanwhile the cops watch this and eat their donuts.
Could you have done this in the wild west? Probably.
Could you do this in a third world country? Maybe.
Can you do this in New York City? No chance!
See, your RL comparison doesn't work, never has, never will. And no support from your alts or griefer friends will change that. Why? Because in RL, empires (lets call them states) don't like their institutions to be war dec-ed. If you do, they WTFPWN you.
You want to war dec CAS? Fine with me, as long as Gallente war decs your corps as well. You want non-consentual combat? Lets see what happens when the entire Gallente faction puts the smack down on your sorry ass.
Now please child, go away and grow a brain.
Yeah, but the entire premise that any reasonable comparison can be drawn between social policy and the state of law and order in New York and Eve is without foundation.
Eve has its own backstory to support the apparent harshness of its policies. CONCORD are NOT the NYPD, corporations in Eve are not like multinational organisations in the real world.
In Eve, corps have their own military forces and are expected to hold their own. Wars are private matters to be resolved between corps (or alliances). No provision is made by any Empire mega-corp for the protection of tiny, capsuleer corps, nor should it be. It is enough that they are not immediately devoured by their superiors.
|
Complacency's Bane
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 20:01:00 -
[51]
This thread has moved beyond stupid, into a special area I like to call 'metastupid'. If there was any justice in the world, metastupid threads would collapse, forming singularities which suck all participants in, never to be seen again.
|
Infinity Ziona
Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 20:02:00 -
[52]
You should have to pay to stay in npc corps imo.
The Privateering Life |
Solothores
|
Posted - 2006.10.07 20:10:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Solothores on 07/10/2006 20:15:20
Edited by: Solothores on 07/10/2006 20:11:33
I don't know if it is such a wise idea to "play" on the fundamentals of a system, that is part of the rare success story that involves an older mmog actually archieving constant user growth... why can't we just wait and see how faction wars turns out, hmm?
Cheers
Solo
|
Shugo Kazuma
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 05:28:00 -
[54]
While I don't think the OP's idea is reasonable within the scope of the game, I think a sliding war dec cost would have some merit in looking into.
If cost of war upkeep were to increase each pay increment, and have the inital cost based on the difference between the two corp's sizes (ie, a huge corp would pay extravagently to war dec a 1 man corp) it could provide CCP with a nice isk sink (we all know they're always looking for those), while discouraging disproportionate wars where one side will totally dominate with their vastly superior numbers and equipment as well as really long wars.
|
Infinity Ziona
Privateers
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 05:46:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Gonada
the blathering of carebears is not a pretty sight.
nor is war
get used to it.
These anti-carebear comments are pretty funny, when in reality, most of people typing them are probably more like -> White and Nerdy
The Privateering Life |
Krazy Cheetah
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 06:05:00 -
[56]
I must say I am against this idea. I was in a corp that was war decd by Omniscient Order and we were outclassed (by a huge margin.) We chose to sit in the station and wait it out, this was the biggest mistake I have made in eve. Now having a little more pvp experience (I stress a little) I am of the opinion that i should have bought and cheaply fitted T1 frigates and fought, the experience alone would have been invaluable. I am for having the cost increase over time for war decs as this is the case with real wars. To often I see players who are too scared to fight and this is the biggest hurdle you have to get over. The single biggest factor that has cost me ships in pvp is that initial omg omg omg. Once you get over that and get passed the loss of ships (or get used to hte fact that it is ok to lose ships) pvp becomes alot more fun. I am also for people being forced to leave NPC corps after 60 or 90 days, so that players canot be in game for 2 years and harrassing noobs for fun. Other than that i think the current war system is ok. Low sec is not safe ever. High sec should not be safe if you have been war decd as this would open up for players to start a fight and run to high sec and still play the game openly with no retirubution for their acts.
Krazy
|
Cheese999
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 06:19:00 -
[57]
NPC corps are for n00bs and trial accounts.
Trial accounts arn't allowed into haulers, battleships, mining barges, capital ships, or to use whole host of modules.
Why should a n00b in a NPC corp be treated any differently? How many people havn't worked out the mechanics of the game by the time they are training for mining barges? Or battleships? Or freighters.
If you want to stay in a NPC corp, you're more than welcome to. But you can make much more isk by leaving your NPC safe haven.
Risk verse Reward after all.
|
Rockbox
Amarr
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 06:50:00 -
[58]
This thread makes me cry 
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting
Verone > ♥ |
Micaela
Caldari
Brute Force Missions inc
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 07:01:00 -
[59]
this topic is anoying , i expected to read some decent arguement about war decs , but instead , its a moan about the fundementals of the game. hate to state it , but it is part of the game.
i think u should go play something like world of warcraft , were people have to ask to pvp lol.
the beauty of eve online. is that your "free" , theres consiqences to your actions , but YOU have the right to make these actions. take that away. and you ruins everyone elses game , just so u can be a carebear. yeah right........
no war decs /pvp = hardly any ship loss , no ship lose ? = whats the need for miners traders ect ? , no need for them ? well u just got a mission running game. now wtf is the point of paying for a game that u run missions on ? when u could pick up a single player game in shops for a one time payment?
sorry to be so negative , but theres just no way to be positive to this thread.
rather then moaning and ranting about war decs , u should try to be more of a propductive corp. make friends / alliances ect. defend yourself better. dont attack the bloody game 
Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
|
zeKzn
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 07:03:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Micaela
i think u should go play something like world of warcraft , were people have to ask to pvp lol.
I would point out thats only true for about half of the shards.
____
Itty-Bitty Crow <3 |
zeKzn
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 07:05:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Rockbox
Shards? Muahahah!
Servers, whatever you want to call them. Makes no difference to the facts.
____
Itty-Bitty Crow <3 |
Rockbox
Amarr
Veto.
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 07:05:00 -
[62]
Shards? Muahahah!
Nova Satar > i'll be waiting
Verone > ♥ |
Complacency's Bane
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 07:28:00 -
[63]
I bought EVE expecting it to be WoW in space.
I'm very disappointed in that. Instead of going and playing WoW, I'd like this game to become WoW.
Seriously, whats up with arrogant devs making games which arent WoW?
EVE is a PvP MMORPG. The last PvP MMORPG. How hard is it to find a PvE MMORPG? Is it really necessary to take the only remaining PvP MMORPG, which has utterly terrible, monotonous PvE, and turn it into a WoW-clone.
The only 'problem' with wardecs is that theyre too easy to avoid by anyone with a brain stem. You dont even need the entire brain - just the part that controls the autonomic nervous system. IF YOU CAN BREATHE, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO WARDODGE LIKE A PRO.
|
Pham Sirge
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 08:03:00 -
[64]
Hi all,
Im so tired of people in high sec expecting safety Its HIGH SECURITY, not GOD MODE.
GET OVER IT.
- War decs are stupidly easy to avoid.
- Wars are mostly uneventful. (just ask those merc corps)
Heres some thoughts...
I spent 1 month(my first) in empire doing the NPC corp thing I didnt make any friends... I was effectivly playing eve offline.
I spent my 2nd month in empire after joining a player corp started by a real-life friend. It kinda sucked because we both were effectively playing eve offline. He wanted to trade run I wanted to mission run. SIGH.
I then made a plan to get into 0.0, This consituted looking for a Australian based corp that had a presence in 0.0. I found VTIL and became part of ASCN. I fought wars, I lost ships, I made friends and made about 2 bill in isk in the process.
People hiding in NPC corps must be pushed from the nest or they will never leave and quit the game.
Be it thru a tax increase or expulsion to war decable corps people really need to leave NPC corps.
,
Pham Sirge
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 08:06:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Ghoest on 08/10/2006 08:07:34
What most of you cant see is that this is a plan to move "carebears" toward corps and PVP with out driving them from the game. There is a huge number of these people.
These guys will quite if you take away safe high sec with NPC corps, so that not an option for CCP.
But my plan at least gets rid of the absurd current system that traps carebears in the NPC corps.
Most of you whining are the the same dummies that played Darktide and Mordred always insisting that newbs be gankable by high lvls. You insisted this right up till the point when you quite - you quite because the server was empty - it was empty because after there was a big contigent of veterans, the noobs stopped stay when they tried the game.
Wherever you went - here you are.
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 08:43:00 -
[66]
As long as high sec space contains resources there can be no complete safety there at any time. That's simply part of Eve setting. You cannot expect to be able to compete in an area on one level, yet be safe from competition in that area by other means.
An example:
If you produce craploads of ships in high sec to fuel your war in low sec agains me, I need to be able to pursue you into high sec.
Hence the wardec system in Eve, and it's going nowhere.
Old blog |
Gawain Hill
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 08:47:00 -
[67]
ok being me i came up with an idea i belive will solve the problem of 1) people declaring war to get someones cargo and 2) newb corps being smited out of exsistance when a big old corp declares war because they feel like ruining someones day.
1) it takes 24 hours for the war to be declared all members of corps involved get an eve mail tellnig them about the war who declared it and who's involved
2) a corp can surrender, this ends the war but the surrendering corp CAN NOT declare war on the aggressing corp for 6 months
anynoe see any loop wholes in this i missed?
|
Plastic Moldman
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 09:07:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Cheese999
NPC corps are for n00bs and trial accounts.
Trial accounts arn't allowed into haulers, battleships, mining barges, capital ships, or to use whole host of modules.
Why should a n00b in a NPC corp be treated any differently? How many people havn't worked out the mechanics of the game by the time they are training for mining barges? Or battleships? Or freighters.
If you want to stay in a NPC corp, you're more than welcome to. But you can make much more isk by leaving your NPC safe haven.
Risk verse Reward after all.
I think this idea has some merit. You'd have to let NPC corp members have access to more than just what is available to trial accounts. Where to draw the line? I dunno. It could help to combat macroing since it could force macroers into deccable corps if they want to use higher end ships. Plus it would provide an incentive to leave the NPC corp rather than a disincentive to stay in the case of a high tax.
Originally by: Gawain Hill
ok being me i came up with an idea i belive will solve the problem of 1) people declaring war to get someones cargo and 2) newb corps being smited out of exsistance when a big old corp declares war because they feel like ruining someones day.
1) it takes 24 hours for the war to be declared all members of corps involved get an eve mail tellnig them about the war who declared it and who's involved
2) a corp can surrender, this ends the war but the surrendering corp CAN NOT declare war on the aggressing corp for 6 months
anynoe see any loop wholes in this i missed?
What's the downside to surrendering? If there is none then all you do to avoid a war is surrender. Poof, war over and back to peace.
Also, folks that want people booted from NPC corps, where would people be booted to? Would existing corps be forced to accept in new people? Would they be booted into deccable NPC corps? What would happen to people booted from player corps?
In the interest of full disclosure you should know this is an alt for a miner/missioner/indutrialist/marketeer. I like the economic side of this game and avoid wars and PVP like the plague. Why post with an alt? Some people don't yet realize that EVE Online and EVE Forums are two very different games.
|
Viktor Kruger
Caldari
Industrial Warlords
United Confederation of Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 13:19:00 -
[69]
If a pvp corp wishes to pick a fight with a carebear corp and therefore declare war, let them it's there money & time they are wasting, who says you have to turn up & fight them, let them call you names & beat their chests, do your homework, find who is in there corp, do a bit of surveillance find out where in space they plan to hang out to disrupt your fun, You improvise. You adapt. You overcome.
As a matter of fact as carebears you can fight back catch the solo pilot by surprise, 20 men with pickaxes can try and take down the knight in armour, ok granted some of you are going to fall foul of the warriors skill & combat prowess but you might succeed.
This universe is full of challenges, I don't agree with changing the mechanics so one side has an advantage, so NO! npc corps should not have a time limit before kicking you out, and NO! high sec space should not have invunerabilty pockets.
I would just like to add on the side of the pvp corp, no warrior likes having a dish served to them without the thrill of the hunt, so you also do your homework play a bit of cat & mouse, place that cheese, set your trap, it's all part of the games learning curve.
Remember, there's always something cleverer than yourself.
|
Val Oman
Delta Desperados
|
Posted - 2006.10.08 14:08:00 -
[70]
I think the War Dec system is just fine as it is minus 1 thing.
If a corp is allowed to pay off CONCORD to turn a blind eye to the war, the corp being deced should have a chance to counter the offer. It should be made into a bidding war. This will give the industrial/PVE based corps a chance to PvP the way they are skilled in...by ISK.
Start the dec at a base price as it is, than let the bidding war occur in the first 24hours and the 24hours before the reestablishment of the war each week. This would also result in situations where the corps enter into negotiations and estblish a resonable ransom ("I'll pay you half the current bid to cancel the dec"). >10mil increments and the decced corp can set an option which automatically raises the bid by +10mil when the time expires.
To not totally protect the super rich, allow the war deccing corp to still initiate the war if they lose the bid by paying the final bid themselves. This "Limited war" would be like its in lowsec with gate and station guns firing but no CONCORD fleet response.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |