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War decs are holding people back from corps and real pvp.

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Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:53:00 - [31] Everything in EVE has a risk, and creating and being in an own player corp with more possibilities and freedom yields the risk of a wardec. You said you need something to defend for being wardecced, a player-corp has its corp, its assets, its members and its freedom to do whatever a npc-corp cant do to defend. If you cant defend that, you either keep a low profile and avoid getting decced, or you dont risk it.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:56:00 - [32] No. Empire grifer wars are a right of passage for a young corperation. Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
Michuh Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:57:00 - [33] Originally by: Cipher7 Highsec = The Developed World Lowsec = Third World Countries - Brazil etc 0.0 = Unsettled "Wild West" areas Jita = New York City Rens = London Ours = Paris Amarr Prime = Berlin Highsec Piracy and Wardec = Mafia war. How many people get shot in New York City every year? Alot. How many people get away with it? Quite a few. Insurance Fraud? Absolutely. Profit from Murder? Yup. And yet people still wake up every morning, put on their clothes and take the Metro to work. If you get mugged, file your police report and go back to your routine. The same rules of life apply to Eve. 1) Don't walk into New York City with 5 million dollars in your pockets. Someone's going to club you on the head and jack you. Same with driving a hauler full of Zyd into Jita. 2) Lowsec is like walking through East New York. You don't stop. You don't loiter. You walk fast, and if you feel in danger, run. You don't walk in there with a hauler full of Zyd, you're gonna get robbed and its your own fault. Well I'm sorry that you don't like how things work in the Eve Universe. I'm not willing to change the game to WoW so we can be more "carebear friendly." If I wanted WoW, I'd be playing it. I love it.. nice post, Its after putting in words, some of the feelings Ive had about the whole empire pvp situation. Maelstrom Recruitment
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.07 13:41:00 - [34] Originally by: Richard Stryker Edited by: Richard Stryker on 07/10/2006 11:49:17 Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Richard Stryker reason 2: HUGE trust issue's. this cover's everthing from those locked bpo's being somehow unlocked, someone cancelling anothers production job (think if that was a mothership someone cancelled and you loose 50% of the mins), your freighter being attacked by corp mates who want your hold (not a problem yet, but could be once freighters drop cans), corp wallet theft, pos offlining and destruction etc etc etc. only true if there's no evaluation process before joining/becoming full member of a corp. How long should that evaluation period be? GHSC dude ripped that corp off after 5+ months.. other peeps on this forum have posted about year + members doing that. No evaluation process gets rid of that. no it won't ... but saying that you'll for sure get ripped off when you join a player corp (as you said - there's a "HUGE trust issue") is imho really paranoid and absolutly counter-productive. it's like saying "i never ever want to get in contact with other people because they MIGHT be criminals/bad/listening to the wrong music/reading the wrong books and so on ... but i also have to say - i don't have any experience with corp theft and such ... maybe i was damn lucky so far - or it's NOT a huge issue at all (if you have a reasonable recruiting and managment policy in your corp) ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.07 13:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Sinnbad Mayhem I am a noob. I joined a corp. They went to war. I got on kill mails. We won. I had fun. Period. There we go. Thats it. Thats what we play for. Screw all the stupid overthought reasons about war decs. It happens, go have fun with it. Izo Azlion. ---
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.10.07 13:57:00 - [36] the carebear trollings seem especially ludicrous lately Save Low-sec
Jan Riksma Dark Reality	Posted - 2006.10.07 14:14:00 - [37] Originally by: Elgar Lightfoot Originally by: robacz IMO, there should be mutual agreement on war to remove CONCORD protection in highsec. If one side doesnt agree with war, I dont see why should CONCORD watch how they are being murdered, if same CONCORD protected them few hours ago. Only difference is, that someone said "I want to kill these folks!". If there is no mutual agreement, war is still running, but cant be fought in highsec. Also in lowsec, you would get sec rating hit for killing war targets without mutual agreement. In 0.0 you can kill whoever you want. To make it more fair, there should be option for non-mutual wars based on previus aggression - if this corp aggressed your members before, you can declare war on them and CONCORD will not help them - they aggressed you so they now have to take consequences. I'm totally for this. I'm also in favor of an increasing scale of cost to keep a War going. Why does war have to be mutal it normaly isn't and high sec isn't safe space its safer then low sec and 0.0 and afterall this is a pvp game if you mine, shoot, build or buy stuff it all comes to player interaction. High sec is protected enough as it is and if ccp starts to protect it furthermore they better turn it into a pve game.
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.10.07 14:18:00 - [38] the blathering of carebears is not a pretty sight. nor is war get used to it. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.07 14:31:00 - [39] Maybe the way to go is have a war deccing system where by only corps of a similiar size can dec each other. Something like this Big corp cannot dec a much smaller corp, but a small corp can dec a much bigger one or one of a similiar size. Would make some griefer corps think twice if they had a chance of losing and you wouldn't have a situation where multiple battleships camp a station waiting for one player to undock. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr In Articulo Mortis	Posted - 2006.10.07 15:03:00 - [40] I think the war system is pretty screwed up in the sense that they can happen in empire space at all! I mean, you don't see Panama and Uruguay going at it on American soil, now do you? At the same time, when you're at war you can't just waltz your armies into someone else's territory for protection when things go bad. So this is how it should go: you cannot fight in empire at all, but you can't enter empire space either. Thus, carebears can stay safe in empire, but as soon as they enter low sec, they can't come back if they are war declared. That way, everybody is happy (except griefers, but in my view, that is a good thing). FOR THE EMPEROR! The Second NtV (Noob to Vet) Lottery
Boratora Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.07 15:09:00 - [41] How is this for a start: 1) You can wardec who you want, when you want. After the second week the cost of the war raises by 50% per week thereafter. For realism's sake, constant violence between two gangs would attract police. 2) The wardec cost is cut in half for both should the other side agree to the war. If the two sides are mutually engaging in violence, all gloves are off. There is no rising penalty. 3) A mechanism for enforceable peace deals. If two sides agree to non-agression for three weeks then so be it. If one side violates the agreement than they pay through the roof for the violation, be it a fine and higher wardec costs. You can build in a bill system to payoff the other corp built into the agreement, like rent. 4) No fighting at all in 1.0. There are safe havens even in RL. If a corp really feels like turtling in a system then they can do so, at the expense of mind-numbing boredom. There is no risk nor reward.
Red Ochre	Posted - 2006.10.07 16:29:00 - [42] Edited by: Red Ochre on 07/10/2006 16:30:34 i like to hand out my opinion from time to time and if you read my previous posts, you also see i like to critique alot, belittle the belittlers, use the common sense hammer, and basically let people know what opinion verse opinionated is. your post is one such example, i will modify and then present it to you op, i will turn it into an opinion post instead of an opinionated what you should do post, yes you did, now shut up and read. Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2006 04:05:19 Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2006 04:04:47 Its counter intuative but true. A lot of new players would form or join small corps which would lead them to bigger and better things in EVE - including 0.0 Your standard new player wants nothing to do with a gate gank in Pator or Rens. From a conceptual perspective it also make no sense. Why would the police allow the majority of hi-sec or a group new players to be killed and ganked at will by local thugs just because they made a corp? The system might be changed so that small corps WITH NO TERRITORY OR ALLIANCE get protection in high sec. If someone wants to declare war and attack in low sec fine. Its counter intuative, i just used the tagline "counter intuitive" in the wrong context but thats just me, but in the long run this may make for more PVP. Currently one reason all these people just stay in NPC corps so nothing is lost. NOTE: This is an opinionated post by me, corrected by that nosy biatch red ochre on how together we might improve the game. I pretty much live in low sec anyway. EDIT: to clarify - you could still declare war on the corps. They would simply be safe in high sec. If the "new players and their new corps" declared war then they would be vulnerable every where. see, isnt that better? .......shhhhh, no hate! no hate!
Reckless Eddie	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:22:00 - [43] Originally by: Clone Delta Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Hell no we won't go.. or something! Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps. the other option some people like is to force carebears out of the NPC corps after a set time. of course there is nothing to stop a carebear using an alt to set up a corp with 0 tax - when wardec the carebears resign and join another alt corp. do you realy want that? Sure. Why not? Don't put your hand where you wouldn't put your face she said.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:28:00 - [44] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 07/10/2006 19:34:47 Originally by: Clone Delta the other option some people like is to force carebears out of the NPC corps after a set time. Yeah, that's not my suggestion though. Originally by: Clone Delta of course there is nothing to stop a carebear using an alt to set up a corp with 0 tax - when wardec the carebears resign and join another alt corp. do you realy want that? People will always abuse game mechanics contrary to the spirit of the game, but that's not the central issue. Players in NPC corps get a free ride - no tax, no wardecs, very low risk, boring for everyone and frustrating for those with a grudge they can't settle. There should be a financial incentive to move out into player corps and become more involved by taking more risks. A 20% tax on NPC corps would do just fine. Wanna hide in an NPC corp for Empire gate ganking duty and avoid war decs by indignant victims' corps? Fine, but you pay 20% of your earnings for the privilege. Wanna hide in an NPC corp for Empire mining operations without the risk of being war decced by an Empire based extortionist corp? Fine, but you pay 20% of your earnings for the privilege.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:33:00 - [45] Originally by: Samirol the carebear trollings seem especially ludicrous lately Ehh. Thats just because after you cater to someone for so long, they get an entitlement complex.
Clone Delta	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:39:00 - [46] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Hell no we won't go.. or something! Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps. Taxing NPC corps carebears is not an incentive, its a punishment for staying in NPC corps. Once the Carebear is in you corp - a carebear who does not want to be in you corp - other than the automatic tax, how are you going to get him to do anything for you?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Clone Delta Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Hell no we won't go.. or something! Taxing NPC corps at 20% is all the incentive required to encourage more players out into player corps. Taxing NPC corps carebears is not an incentive, its a punishment for staying in NPC corps. Once the Carebear is in you corp - a carebear who does not want to be in you corp - other than the automatic tax, how are you going to get him to do anything for you? You encourage people to go where you want them, not only by making their destination more desireable, but by making their present situation less comfortable. It's called game balance.
Bartholomeus Crane Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:51:00 - [48] RL comparisons, he? So, lets see. I start a small corner coffee shop in, ohhh, downtown New York. Starbucks however doesn't like competition. So it sends a letter saying: "Oh my godzors, you sucks, war dec noob.". After that they buy an Abrahams tank, come down to my corner shop and blast it to hell. Then they turn on my car, house, wife, kids, grandma, and dog. Meanwhile the cops watch this and eat their donuts. Could you have done this in the wild west? Probably. Could you do this in a third world country? Maybe. Can you do this in New York City? No chance! See, your RL comparison doesn't work, never has, never will. And no support from your alts or griefer friends will change that. Why? Because in RL, empires (lets call them states) don't like their institutions to be war dec-ed. If you do, they WTFPWN you. You want to war dec CAS? Fine with me, as long as Gallente war decs your corps as well. You want non-consentual combat? Lets see what happens when the entire Gallente faction puts the smack down on your sorry ass. Now please child, go away and grow a brain.
Ibrich	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane RL comparisons, he? So, lets see. I start a small corner coffee shop in, ohhh, downtown New York. Starbucks however doesn't like competition. So it sends a letter saying: "Oh my godzors, you sucks, war dec noob.". After that they buy an Abrahams tank, come down to my corner shop and blast it to hell. Then they turn on my car, house, wife, kids, grandma, and dog. Meanwhile the cops watch this and eat their donuts. Could you have done this in the wild west? Probably. Could you do this in a third world country? Maybe. Can you do this in New York City? No chance! See, your RL comparison doesn't work, never has, never will. And no support from your alts or griefer friends will change that. Why? Because in RL, empires (lets call them states) don't like their institutions to be war dec-ed. If you do, they WTFPWN you. You want to war dec CAS? Fine with me, as long as Gallente war decs your corps as well. You want non-consentual combat? Lets see what happens when the entire Gallente faction puts the smack down on your sorry ass. Now please child, go away and grow a brain. Tank would be overkill, that's saying that you can't take a dreadnought into Jita... and that's right you can't. However, walking in with a large calibre handgun and shooting you to bits is quite possible... actually you usually get the option to pay a ****load of money first... or close down the shop... lol. Funny hey, that's completely RL and completely EVE, this is a part where RL comparison do soemwhat work... if you don't try to twist things out of proportion. And if you mean if the entire NPC corp population of the gallente empire decides to fight... nobody would be impressed really.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.10.07 19:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane RL comparisons, he? So, lets see. I start a small corner coffee shop in, ohhh, downtown New York. Starbucks however doesn't like competition. So it sends a letter saying: "Oh my godzors, you sucks, war dec noob.". After that they buy an Abrahams tank, come down to my corner shop and blast it to hell. Then they turn on my car, house, wife, kids, grandma, and dog. Meanwhile the cops watch this and eat their donuts. Could you have done this in the wild west? Probably. Could you do this in a third world country? Maybe. Can you do this in New York City? No chance! See, your RL comparison doesn't work, never has, never will. And no support from your alts or griefer friends will change that. Why? Because in RL, empires (lets call them states) don't like their institutions to be war dec-ed. If you do, they WTFPWN you. You want to war dec CAS? Fine with me, as long as Gallente war decs your corps as well. You want non-consentual combat? Lets see what happens when the entire Gallente faction puts the smack down on your sorry ass. Now please child, go away and grow a brain. Yeah, but the entire premise that any reasonable comparison can be drawn between social policy and the state of law and order in New York and Eve is without foundation. Eve has its own backstory to support the apparent harshness of its policies. CONCORD are NOT the NYPD, corporations in Eve are not like multinational organisations in the real world. In Eve, corps have their own military forces and are expected to hold their own. Wars are private matters to be resolved between corps (or alliances). No provision is made by any Empire mega-corp for the protection of tiny, capsuleer corps, nor should it be. It is enough that they are not immediately devoured by their superiors.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:01:00 - [51] This thread has moved beyond stupid, into a special area I like to call 'metastupid'. If there was any justice in the world, metastupid threads would collapse, forming singularities which suck all participants in, never to be seen again.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:02:00 - [52] You should have to pay to stay in npc corps imo. The Privateering Life
Solothores	Posted - 2006.10.07 20:10:00 - [53] Edited by: Solothores on 07/10/2006 20:15:20 Edited by: Solothores on 07/10/2006 20:11:33 I don't know if it is such a wise idea to "play" on the fundamentals of a system, that is part of the rare success story that involves an older mmog actually archieving constant user growth... why can't we just wait and see how faction wars turns out, hmm? Cheers Solo
Shugo Kazuma	Posted - 2006.10.08 05:28:00 - [54] While I don't think the OP's idea is reasonable within the scope of the game, I think a sliding war dec cost would have some merit in looking into. If cost of war upkeep were to increase each pay increment, and have the inital cost based on the difference between the two corp's sizes (ie, a huge corp would pay extravagently to war dec a 1 man corp) it could provide CCP with a nice isk sink (we all know they're always looking for those), while discouraging disproportionate wars where one side will totally dominate with their vastly superior numbers and equipment as well as really long wars.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.08 05:46:00 - [55] Originally by: Gonada the blathering of carebears is not a pretty sight. nor is war get used to it. These anti-carebear comments are pretty funny, when in reality, most of people typing them are probably more like -> White and Nerdy The Privateering Life
Krazy Cheetah	Posted - 2006.10.08 06:05:00 - [56] I must say I am against this idea. I was in a corp that was war decd by Omniscient Order and we were outclassed (by a huge margin.) We chose to sit in the station and wait it out, this was the biggest mistake I have made in eve. Now having a little more pvp experience (I stress a little) I am of the opinion that i should have bought and cheaply fitted T1 frigates and fought, the experience alone would have been invaluable. I am for having the cost increase over time for war decs as this is the case with real wars. To often I see players who are too scared to fight and this is the biggest hurdle you have to get over. The single biggest factor that has cost me ships in pvp is that initial omg omg omg. Once you get over that and get passed the loss of ships (or get used to hte fact that it is ok to lose ships) pvp becomes alot more fun. I am also for people being forced to leave NPC corps after 60 or 90 days, so that players canot be in game for 2 years and harrassing noobs for fun. Other than that i think the current war system is ok. Low sec is not safe ever. High sec should not be safe if you have been war decd as this would open up for players to start a fight and run to high sec and still play the game openly with no retirubution for their acts. Krazy
Cheese999	Posted - 2006.10.08 06:19:00 - [57] NPC corps are for n00bs and trial accounts. Trial accounts arn't allowed into haulers, battleships, mining barges, capital ships, or to use whole host of modules. Why should a n00b in a NPC corp be treated any differently? How many people havn't worked out the mechanics of the game by the time they are training for mining barges? Or battleships? Or freighters. If you want to stay in a NPC corp, you're more than welcome to. But you can make much more isk by leaving your NPC safe haven. Risk verse Reward after all.
Rockbox Amarr Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.08 06:50:00 - [58] This thread makes me cry Nova Satar > i'll be waiting Verone > ♥
Micaela Caldari Brute Force Missions inc	Posted - 2006.10.08 07:01:00 - [59] this topic is anoying , i expected to read some decent arguement about war decs , but instead , its a moan about the fundementals of the game. hate to state it , but it is part of the game. i think u should go play something like world of warcraft , were people have to ask to pvp lol. the beauty of eve online. is that your "free" , theres consiqences to your actions , but YOU have the right to make these actions. take that away. and you ruins everyone elses game , just so u can be a carebear. yeah right........ no war decs /pvp = hardly any ship loss , no ship lose ? = whats the need for miners traders ect ? , no need for them ? well u just got a mission running game. now wtf is the point of paying for a game that u run missions on ? when u could pick up a single player game in shops for a one time payment? sorry to be so negative , but theres just no way to be positive to this thread. rather then moaning and ranting about war decs , u should try to be more of a propductive corp. make friends / alliances ect. defend yourself better. dont attack the bloody game Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
zeKzn Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.10.08 07:03:00 - [60] Originally by: Micaela i think u should go play something like world of warcraft , were people have to ask to pvp lol. I would point out thats only true for about half of the shards. ____ Itty-Bitty Crow <3

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