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Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Daravel on 12/10/2006 13:42:43 Oops - pressed enter Editing in content. Please hold Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Belladonna Nightshade	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:53:00 - [2] Use Eve-info for all your mission guides. I feel sorry for you but its your own fault for rushing in without doing any proper research. You dont have to fit stabs for missions, just ask someone what the scrambler rats are called...usually they are frigates and pop easily.
Zaldoza Caldari Holographic MindWare Constructions	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:54:00 - [3] Ehmm check Eveinfo before the mission,so you know what ships scramble/web you.Take those down first... Zaldoc...Miner Zaldoza..Mission Runner
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:58:00 - [4] I can't find the info now but its always firgs in the lower missions. It will be the higher bounty frigs (25k-30k) generally merc wingmen and drones with the "strain" prefix will do it. Other factions have similar naming conventions of guys that can scramble, hopefully people will add them. Finally, npc's scrambling is not a bad idea. EvE was never intended to be a game with no consequences. You screw up, you die, it hurts! To use a cliche, you want no risk, then go and play WoW
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:58:00 - [5] Mission: Pirate invasion I've run it 4 times in 2 days (and a number of times previously) - never been scrammed before The scramming frigs - umm.. about 6 of each type.. which one? QUICK - shields gone... is it that one? or that one? Armour... maybe that one? - see my point? theres 5,6,7 of each ship type (about 15 frigs/10 cruisers/3 BC's) You say Eveinfo? So I have to use a website to learn the game? Shouldn't I be able to find out EVERYTHING I need to know through the game? I shouldn't HAVE to research it at all. But saying that, yes, maybe I could have... My point isn't over the scramming, more the fact that its nearly impossible to know what enemy is doing it - and you don't know your scrammed until it's too late (the message probably doesn't even appear as Im being hit by 3-4 missiles a second) Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Daravel how do I know which ship it was? It was a frigate, so that narrows it down a bit. Look for the blue pulses eminating from the frig towards your ship. I've accidentally aggroed lots of ships in the past and managed to pinpoint which ones are scambling me, nail them and get out safe.
Dunadain	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:01:00 - [7] I think missions with these types of enemies are great. It makes missions less about just tanking damage, and a little more about strategy, being prepared for the unexpected, and slightly more like PVP, where this will happen to you.
Waxau Liberty Rogues Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Daravel You say Eveinfo? So I have to use a website to learn the game? Shouldn't I be able to find out EVERYTHING I need to know through the game? I shouldn't HAVE to research it at all. But saying that, yes, maybe I could have... Yes you shouldnt HAVE to. And you dont. You just learnt the hard way. And if you dont learn from your mistakes, you're going to repeat them.
Leishent Caldari Captured Souls Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Leishent on 12/10/2006 14:04:04 I think the point is that you get info on who is putting ecm on you but not scrambeling/webbing you. Also scrambling doesnt give any visual hints such as the webbing glow. Oh yeah - you shouldn't have to rely on out-of game resources to play the game. As it is now you "have to" since vital information as scrambling isnt given to the player. Pre-made bookmark sets, click to visit
anister Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:04:00 - [10] Keep your log open, it'll tell you exactly what type of ship is scrambling you. Then just look for the type that has the blue rings pulsing towards your ship. ___
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Pestillence I can't find the info now but its always firgs in the lower missions. It will be the higher bounty frigs (25k-30k) generally merc wingmen and drones with the "strain" prefix will do it. Other factions have similar naming conventions of guys that can scramble, hopefully people will add them. Finally, npc's scrambling is not a bad idea. EvE was never intended to be a game with no consequences. You screw up, you die, it hurts! To use a cliche, you want no risk, then go and play WoW First: http://eveinfo.com/missions/112/eve-online-pirate-invasion But that isn't even the right mission - mine has 30+ enemies through 2 gates... It has around 15 frigs (15k) 10 Cruisers (60k) and 1-3 BC (130k) And I have said I dont mind the scramming, more the fact that it's not particuarly obvious which one it is... Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:09:00 - [12] Where do I find out which rats scram? im looking at the stats of the rats in the mission - but no cookie... And iirc then there weren't even any frigs left --- Im really not sure... Either way, If you dont get the cruisers/BC's first - your dead. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:17:00 - [13] Just about every high-bounty (20k+) frigate has the potential to scramble you - if your ship has a drone bay, kill the frigs with drones while you work on the cruisers and BC with your main weapons. The problem may lie with your setup. Post a bit more info: your ship, setup and the type of rats you're facing and you should get some more detailed advice.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:20:00 - [14] the fault lies with the UI, when the spam is coming hot and heavy you dont even see the scramble message. imo we need a small window that works like the debuff window in fantasy MMOs except it shows what Ewar(scrams jams and webs) effects are on your ship, how many and by pointering the icon who/what is applying those effects.
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:23:00 - [15] Ferox 5 XR-3 2000 (??)Heavy assault launchers 1 MED Nos 1 tractor beam 2 large T2 shield extenders 3 passive resists (can't remember the types) 1 nanofiber 1 BCU 1 PDS 1 Shield flux coil Can't be bothered with drones... fighting Guristas pirates: Pithi Wrecker (approx 5) Pithi Destuctor ( "" ) Pithti Demolisher ( "" ) Pithium Murderer Pithium nullifier Pithium Killer Pithium Annihilator (about 4 of each) Pithiatis Assaulter (1) Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
EveNo	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:24:00 - [16] The fact that you cant tell which ship is doing gawd knows what to your ship still is juz plain lazzy on the part of whoever is desiging the UI in this game, theres so many "little" things such as this that common sense would suggest would be in game from day one..., but hey
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker the fault lies with the UI, when the spam is coming hot and heavy you dont even see the scramble message. imo we need a small window that works like the debuff window in fantasy MMOs except it shows what Ewar(scrams jams and webs) effects are on your ship, how many and by pointering the icon who/what is applying those effects. /Signed Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Phelan Boots Queens of the Stone Age	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:26:00 - [18] Originally by: Daravel You say Eveinfo? So I have to use a website to learn the game? Shouldn't I be able to find out EVERYTHING I need to know through the game? I shouldn't HAVE to research it at all. But saying that, yes, maybe I could have... Ah but since the site is compatable with the in game browser, it IS in the game. Cheers. Quote: info It's not a good idea to place an Exotic Dancer in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancer will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:28:00 - [19] I'm afraid the fault lies here: Originally by: Daravel Can't be bothered with drones...
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Phelan Boots Originally by: Daravel You say Eveinfo? So I have to use a website to learn the game? Shouldn't I be able to find out EVERYTHING I need to know through the game? I shouldn't HAVE to research it at all. But saying that, yes, maybe I could have... Ah but since the site is compatable with the in game browser, it IS in the game. Cheers. Does CCP own EVEinfo? No. It's not a game feature. Don't get smart. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:29:00 - [21] Edited by: Daravel on 12/10/2006 14:31:43 Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant I'm afraid the fault lies here: Originally by: Daravel Can't be bothered with drones... The skills that would be in drones are in missiles/shielding. Just because it has a drone bay, doesn't mean it has to be used. And anyway - thats besides the point, I have no trobule killing the enemy (I only had to warp because I tried a new tactic) - The issue is that you don't know who/when you are warp scrammed. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:35:00 - [22] Nonsense. If you don't use the drone bay, you're not utilising the full capability of the ship, so its not a surprise if it underperforms. Anyway, you do know when you're scrambled as I and several others have said. Keep the log open and disable combat messages, then it'll tell you what is scrambling you so you can at least narrow it down. Then, look for those blue pulses. I do agree however that we could do with an effects bar of some sort, both for PVP and PVE, that tells you which ship has which effect on you. Have posted about it in the past.
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:40:00 - [23] There's nothing unfair in EVE. Even the most worst case isn't unfair because that's the reason why EVE is great. Be happy that NPC's will not pod you *;-) You can expect that the frigs which intercept you fast are the ones which web/scramble. Presidente Gallente
Leo Josemi Intergalactic House of Pi Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:41:00 - [24] OK it's been said twice already in this thread but I'm not sure if you picked up on it. Warp scrambling has a graphic. It looks like blue rings eminating from the ship towards yours. All you have to do is find that ship and kill it. As far as I know only 1 or 2 actually warp scramble you (I could be wrong) so it shouldn't be a problem. You should have enough tank to take a few seconds and find the warp scrambling ship right away. If you don't, you may be in over your head. You could also fit WCS. Their are ways to deal with it. You do have to work in this game to get the rewards. Keep your chin up and you'll be wasting them in no time
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:43:00 - [25] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 12/10/2006 14:45:26 omg, actually losing ships in pve, RISK !!! OHNOES !!! Yes, the npc's can scramble, I really dont get why only a few of them do in all honesty. Imo starting up from lvl 3 missions and into lvl 4 allso cruiser should have scrambling ability, but the cycling time should be higher (like one minute), and only two at random at a time should be scrambling (-2 each). p.s., hint: it's always the frigs with the high bounties. Old blog
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Rod Blaine omg, actually losing ships in pve, RISK !!! OHNOES !!! Did I ever say anything to that effect? Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Leishent Caldari Captured Souls Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Leo Josemi Warp scrambling has a graphic. It looks like blue rings eminating from the ship towards yours. Ok so we have another aspect to it all. Your graphical settings dictates what information you get as a player. I know the same can be said for webbing/nos/neut/(remote)repping etc. But the point is that your graphical settings affects game play and it should not imho. All those stuff should have graphical representation in the UI some how. Pre-made bookmark sets, click to visit
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:46:00 - [28] i dont use the drone bay on my raven, yet. but in my plans i have to be able to in the future at a minimum use T2 of each drone type. for now if i expect alot of frigates in a lvl 4 i sorta cheat and bring in my alt with his Thrasher(7 named Autocannons, rocket launcher AB and a web and dual named gyros) and well he just shreads even the mighty regening angels webifier.
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:54:00 - [29] After being scrambled by NPCs for the first time - in a level 3 mission, I take a couple of precautions. 1 - If in doubt about the mission fit 1 wcs. One does not hurt my setups much and its better then risking the Raven or ferox 2 - Any frigate with a special name gets hit early - "loyal" Sanshas, "Dire" Guristas, "Arch" Blood raiders seem the main culprits for scrambling. I guess the pattern will extend to the other factions. 3- Never waste the drone bay. Learning basic drone skills to deal with scrambling frigates takes almost 0 time. I had none when I first met these guys, since picking up a few basic drone skills (nothing above 3)I have much less trouble with them. That says a box or flashing notice telling you ou are currently scrambled by X would help.
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Luke Pubcrawler 2 - Any frigate with a special name gets hit early - "loyal" Sanshas, "Dire" Guristas, "Arch" Blood raiders seem the main culprits for scrambling. I guess the pattern will extend to the other factions. No 'Dire' Guristas even in the room - let alone alive to kill me... As I said earlier, I dont even think there were any frigates left alive - but that is most certainly wrong... however, thanks for the tips on which ones are the scramming gits. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Keshi Linegod Amarr Pod Squad Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker the fault lies with the UI, when the spam is coming hot and heavy you dont even see the scramble message. imo we need a small window that works like the debuff window in fantasy MMOs except it shows what Ewar(scrams jams and webs) effects are on your ship, how many and by pointering the icon who/what is applying those effects. /SIGNED Even if it is just Auora saying something like "You are being warp scrambled" when the first effect is on not when you are trying to warp away. -------------------------------------------------- Loyal servant of the Amarr empire. Why the hell an't my picture showing up.......
Luke Pubcrawler	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:05:00 - [32] I dont think it is only these ones that scramble but they do seem most likely. Certainly I dont think I have ever been scrambled by any others. However I have been told that just occassionally the odd cruiser or BS also scrambles - my money would be on the silencers or nullifiers but thats a gues as they have never done it to me.
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Keshi Linegod Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker the fault lies with the UI, when the spam is coming hot and heavy you dont even see the scramble message. imo we need a small window that works like the debuff window in fantasy MMOs except it shows what Ewar(scrams jams and webs) effects are on your ship, how many and by pointering the icon who/what is applying those effects. /SIGNED Even if it is just Auora saying something like "You are being warp scrambled" when the first effect is on not when you are trying to warp away. Apparently Auora does say something, but in the cacaphony of being pelted with missiles, it is unheard. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Scragg Caldari Tyrell Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:10:00 - [34] Warpcore stabs ftw.... By the way.. when NPC's scramble and you happen to NOT have stabs on... align to something to warp and keep trying. When NPC's scramble their scramblers are not on auto repeat and you can occasionally escape when they deactivate and before they re-activate. Losing your ship in a mission... risk vs reward mate. You risk your ship to hopefully get the reward. All part of the game.
Brackun Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:11:00 - [35] I laugh at the idea of actually having effects turned on to be able to see the frigate warp jamming you, Eve missions just bring my FPS down to -1 as it is... "I sat there, pondering this unusual proposition, and at that moment I was just far too embarrassed to admit that I was unfamiliar with the mechanics of zero-gravity copulation." - P.M.S.L.
Sakura Nihil Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Daravel Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake Yay I was quoted . I just contributed absolutely nothing to this discussion . Tharsis!
Gummie The Sanctum Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:20:00 - [37] Sucks you lost your Ferox. I didn't have shield operation and management when I started lvl 3's and now I can take a nap and usually not worry about my Ferox. Oh, and drones are you're friend, then you can fit heavy missiles to take down the cruisers in a much more reasonable time while the drones *****the frigs. Here is my setup: 5 Limos Heavy Launchers 1 125mm rail 1 tractor beam 3 tech II large shield extenders 2 mission specific hardeners (1 primary, 1 secondary or two invuln) 3 shield power relay 1 PDU 5xmission specific light drones Shield: 11,380 with recharge of 374 seconds Add in the hardeners and you will RARELY get below 50% shield. Heck, I actually only need my hardners on a handful of missions.
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:28:00 - [38] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Originally by: Daravel Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake Yay I was quoted . I just contributed absolutely nothing to this discussion . I did tell you that I was stealing the quote - And I did prompt you to say it, due to my numbers screw up. I feel entitled. Originally by: Gummie Sucks you lost your Ferox. I didn't have shield operation and management when I started lvl 3's and now I can take a nap and usually not worry about my Ferox. Oh, and drones are you're friend, then you can fit heavy missiles to take down the cruisers in a much more reasonable time while the drones ***the frigs. Here is my setup: 5 Limos Heavy Launchers 1 125mm rail 1 tractor beam 3 tech II large shield extenders 2 mission specific hardeners (1 primary, 1 secondary or two invuln) 3 shield power relay 1 PDU 5xmission specific light drones Shield: 11,380 with recharge of 374 seconds Add in the hardeners and you will RARELY get below 50% shield. Heck, I actually only need my hardners on a handful of missions. Thanks for the info :) - my shield skills ar thus: Shield compensation: 4 Shield management: 4 Shield operation: 4 Shield Upgrades: 4 Tactical shield Manip: 2 Maybe I should look at some basic drone skills Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by:** Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Tuang Pao The-Wrath	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:34:00 - [39] Don;t be afraid to carry some small arms in your tool box as well. If you have many frigs to destroy small weapons can make that a quick job. Then return to dock and fit for the larger foes from your tool box. Fit your ship for the threat your facing. You're not restricted to one fitting, especially in PVE.
defiler Caldari Mad Hermit	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:34:00 - [40] Too bad you lost your ship. As you say, you shouldn't have to research other web sites to play the game, and in a way you don't. The only web research I've ever done was checking out a mission after doing it (typically when losing my ship to an unusually tough mission). If only I could have all my megas back (10+ by now)... ;) Skimmed through the thread and didn't see anyone saying this, so here's my possibly ship-saving advice: Turn off damage messages in the UI! IMHO, damage messages serves no real purpose once you get used to your ship. You know the damage potential of your guns and you can tell how much damage you're taking by looking at the shield/armor, right? No damage messages means far less spam, allowing you to see the "Somefilthyrat has started trying to warp scramble you". Then it's a simple matter of blasting all rats of that type (could be more than one though, so keep reading the messages) out of the sky and you should be ok. Mad Hermit - Minding our own business since 2004.
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:38:00 - [41] Originally by: defiler Skimmed through the thread and didn't see anyone saying this, so here's my possibly ship-saving advice: Turn off damage messages in the UI! Nice idea - think ill try that Someone may have posted it already - in which case, Thanks. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:49:00 - [42] So what... missions shouldn't be challenging at all? Would you like some cheese with that whine? There are numerous resources to help you out when running missions... Yes, I've lost ships because I've been warp scrambled in missions, yes it sucks, but it keeps you on edge a bit. Better that than a mindless semi AFK ISK grind (which most missions are). ------------
Rick Dentill Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:49:00 - [43] Originally by: Daravel Mission: Pirate invasion My point isn't over the scramming, more the fact that its nearly impossible to know what enemy is doing it - and you don't know your scrammed until it's too late (the message probably doesn't even appear as Im being hit by 3-4 missiles a second) Experience is how you can tell if you don't wish to research the resources provided by other people. Or train a ship and the skills so that you dont need to warp out of a mission. _______ http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd
Brackun Caldari Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:54:00 - [44] Originally by: defiler Skimmed through the thread and didn't see anyone saying this, so here's my possibly ship-saving advice: Turn off damage messages in the UI! I was running a L4 Guristas Extravaganza last night and this idea occured to me from no where, and it seemed to increase playability somewhat. My gang mates weren't even being hit and were totally lagging out though. Stoneage computers 4TL ;_; "I sat there, pondering this unusual proposition, and at that moment I was just far too embarrassed to admit that I was unfamiliar with the mechanics of zero-gravity copulation." - P.M.S.L.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.12 16:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Tuang Pao Don;t be afraid to carry some small arms in your tool box as well. If you have many frigs to destroy small weapons can make that a quick job. Then return to dock and fit for the larger foes from your tool box. Fit your ship for the threat your facing. You're not restricted to one fitting, especially in PVE. when i read this post the first time i had this image of the pilot rolling down the windows and firing an AK-47 at the pirates.
d026 Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2006.10.12 16:07:00 - [46] Why shoudn't they scramble? I'd do so if i'd be a npc:)
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 16:07:00 - [47] Edited by: Daravel on 12/10/2006 16:08:19 Originally by: Rick Dentill Experience is how you can tell if you don't wish to research the resources provided by other people.[/quote I assume you mean that as you are more experienced, then you can judge whether you need to research the mission? I appreciate that the resources are there. However: - I have run the mission plenty of times, and don't recall being scrambled before, and iv'e had no problems with the mission before - so why research it now? - People have suggested that I need to research the missions beforehand - but why do I need to research this game, on an external site, in order to survive? All the information for succeeding in a mission should be available to me within the game. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
defiler Caldari Mad Hermit	Posted - 2006.10.12 16:07:00 - [48] Apart from that, go for what some of the others said... Scramblers in a particularly tight orbit? Go for smartbombs. Rarely use 'em myself since most I encounter orbit at > 5km, but there are a few missions (involving certain gallenteans dodging their taxes...) where a smartbomb is a must. Drones are indispensable, just be careful if you're also using a smartbomb . Just light or medium drones though, heavies have very high signature resolution and thus have a real hard time hitting small ships. In closing, losing a ship might hurt, but do seize the opportunity to learn from it. What went wrong? Just vastly outgunned and scrambled? Just barely too much damage for you to tank? In the latter case, you might consider ignoring the scramblers and focus on the heavy hitters early on. I consider this to be one of the things that a web site can't/shouldn't teach you, you have to experience it yourself. Unfortunately it involves a high risk of losing a couple of ships in the learning process (I've been there etc), which you hinted you can't afford. 'Tis a pickle... I know I repeated much of what you other people said, just wanted to offer my view... Mad Hermit - Minding our own business since 2004.
defiler Caldari Mad Hermit	Posted - 2006.10.12 16:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker when i read this post the first time i had this image of the pilot rolling down the windows and firing an AK-47 at the pirates. Jettisoning marines might also work. Hmm... I'm somewhat reluctant to risk losing my exotic dancer, but perhaps she could serve as a distraction... Gotta try that. Mad Hermit - Minding our own business since 2004.
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 16:34:00 - [50] Guess what.. I fly to Jita with my mission loot - to pay for a new ship. Get popped by a war target... 30 mill of loot - gone. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Doragee Minmatar Unknown Society	Posted - 2006.10.12 16:56:00 - [51] Sry for your loss....but not really too sry about that... 1st. You didn't had to go to eveinfo.com to be informed about missioning and the risks within, even this board does have a quite usefully section, so called "Missions"! Interesting, isn't it? 2nd. Bringing all you loot for sale to Jita while having an empire war? All at once? 3rd. A Nano on the brick called "Ferox"? Heavy missiles fitted and "can't be bothered with drones"? You might also consider a look @ "Ship & Modules" section of this board as usefull as well... --
Minsc Gallente Phoenix Order	Posted - 2006.10.12 16:59:00 - [52] Originally by: Daravel Guess what.. I fly to Jita with my mission loot - to pay for a new ship. Get popped by a war target... 30 mill of loot - gone. Why was it necessary to fly to Jita to sell your loot, any station 3 or 4 jumps out is sufficiently close enough to put your stuff up for sale as long as it's high-sec. People will make 3 or 4 jumps to get something easily, especially if the price is good. It still boggles my mind why people feel they absolutely HAVE to put stuff up for sale directly in the hub systems when a few systems away is just as good. Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:15:00 - [53] All NPCs should scramble, reguardless of ship class. There was a time when NPCs were actually dangerous - when being caught unprepared by a battleship spawn meant that you were in serious trouble. Now you pop the single magic scrambler frigate (if there even is one) and youre home free. NPCs are flying bounties that drop loot. I'm not entirely sure why they even bother to shoot back. Putting some risk back into NPCing and missions would be nothing but positive (unless you suck at EVE).
Thommy	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:15:00 - [54] Something like this should be added, interpretion on how the end result will be open for developers / graphic experts. Image: Jamming indicator Guide to fix eve problems. Cleanup your cache with my cache tool
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:16:00 - [55] Edited by: Gonada on 12/10/2006 17:16:27 NPC's scrambling is a stupid idea, as when there are that many of them, you can't tell who it is, and you cant kill them. --------------------------------------------------------- dear op: missons are not supposed to be a turkeyshoot they are supposed to test your abilities, your reactions, and your knowledge of the game. if you lack any of these, there are online sites what will help you, including this own this is the popular misconception that pure pvp'rs have about misson runners, missions are too easy for the cash reward. well the tougher lvl 3's and 4's are not, it does take some skill , and information is king. in the future , use eveinfo missons, and learn about your enemy instead of flying blind. /look ma no flame! -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:19:00 - [56] I wasnt debating whether they should scramble. I was saying that: - The message that tells you when you are scrambled flashes up and you cant read it - You go to warp - you cant (the message telling you are scrambled again may not even flash up) - You search for the offending Frig - even if you know what type it is, there is sometimes up to 6 of them, ummm? Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:21:00 - [57] FYI: Rat scrams don't stack. They can place only 1 point on you, regardless of how many they are. 1 WCS is enough. [ore mongers, recruiting]
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:24:00 - [58] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin FYI: Rat scrams don't stack. They can place only 1 point on you, regardless of how many they are. 1 WCS is enough. I tough that to until i got into worlds collide and my phoon went pop.
R3aliti	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:38:00 - [59] LOL, Wait until you run into a Warp Scram and a Target Jammer in the same DS. Hint, The Frigates doing this will always come in real close to you. - Answer: FOF(Heavy-MAX)Missiles Be Prepared :) R3
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:52:00 - [60] Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 12/10/2006 17:52:38 There is a warp scrambling graphic which is very clear if you know what to look for (and have a graphics card capable of rendering turrets + effects in a big mission). There are also very few NPCs which actually scramble - learn what they are and kill them first. I cant think of a mission with more then 2-3 scramblers in any one spawn (zazzmataz might have 4) I still maintain that the best way to fix this so that you know which NPC is scrambling you is to have ALL of them scramble you. For multiple points each. Ding - problem solved.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:56:00 - [61] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin FYI: Rat scrams don't stack. They can place only 1 point on you, regardless of how many they are. 1 WCS is enough. Wrong, we've just been through this in the missions section. Do you think they queue up to take turns scrambling or something?
Scipio Primipilus	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:57:00 - [62] If you cant handle the missions without warping out you are in above your head anyway. Besides, how hard is it to research a mission beforehand to develop a tactic? Once you know wich rats scramble you, its a matter of seconds before they die if you do it right. Bah, whiners.
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:04:00 - [63] Originally by: Scipio Primipilus If you cant handle the missions without warping out you are in above your head anyway. Besides, how hard is it to research a mission beforehand to develop a tactic? Once you know wich rats scramble you, its a matter of seconds before they die if you do it right. Bah, whiners. Have you read what I even said? I have no problem with them scrambling me... Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:09:00 - [64] Originally by: Pestillence Originally by: Tobias Sjodin FYI: Rat scrams don't stack. They can place only 1 point on you, regardless of how many they are. 1 WCS is enough. Wrong, we've just been through this in the missions section. Do you think they queue up to take turns scrambling or something? Well explain to me how my hauler could leave from a belt, using one stab, being scrambled by three rats. ^^ Did two of them have a malfunction at the time? [ore mongers, recruiting]
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:13:00 - [65] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Well explain to me how my hauler could leave from a belt, using one stab, being scrambled by three rats. ^^ Did two of them have a malfunction at the time? Its chance-based because PvE needs to be as riskless as possible. One succeeded, two failed.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:14:00 - [66] Quote: If you don't use the drone bay, you're not utilising the full capability of the ship, so its not a surprise if it underperforms. Except for that charming feature where every ship agros the moment you launch your drones. When NPCs scram it does not last long. Keep trying to warp out. If you live long enough you can get out. Missions can be just as dangerous as piracy if you don't read up on them before hand. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:15:00 - [67] Originally by: MrTripps Missions can be just as dangerous as piracy if you're autistic. Fixed that one for you.
Red Ochre	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:36:00 - [68] ahhh yes, in the midst of deadspace, now thats a good one, DO NOT go into, i think it was part 4? with the gate you have to attack, in like ten seconds or a fleet will come through, with less than 3 stabs. i had two, was watching the slow moving fleet come toward me (it must be noted at the time i did this mission i warped into nothing, 2 minutes later everything popped into being and i was being pounded on, standard lag bug so beware) 2 jakars and the rest of the ships, not even in anyones database yet. i was thinking all cruisers and 3 bs, standard fight, i was fit properly or so i thought, it began with my targetting a jakar, i KNEW they scamble all the time, what i wasnt prepared for was the CRUISERS scramming me. with 2 stabs i figured if i got in trouble i was good, not. i targeted the nearest cruisers and began detroying them, closest first as they usually scramble, all the while watching my very very good shield tank slowly, well not that slowly, go away. into armor, still cant warp, starting to worry a bit, 8 cruisers down still can warp jakars are here, starting into structure, still a gobstopper of cruisers, i retarget some hovering at 13k kill two, i warp half structure. nice scary fight (i didnt go back and cancelled mission, a couple friends shield and or armor repping/transferring the main tank could do this room easily, i dont reccomend solo though, it is a diff room). i really couldnt say if 3 stabs would have been enough. also, the bc's were doing 100's through doubled em and therm shields. that was 3 weeks ago, NO ONE has these ships in their databases yet, except the jakars. use of alot of scrammers by npc's, priceless.
defiler Caldari Mad Hermit	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:43:00 - [69] Originally by: MrTripps Quote: If you don't use the drone bay, you're not utilising the full capability of the ship, so its not a surprise if it underperforms. Except for that charming feature where every ship agros the moment you launch your drones. Well, that sort of depends... In some missions it agros every single spawn (and when that kind of danger rears its ugly head it's usually time to bravely run away), in other missions all the other spawns will happily sit and watch the stars while your drones fight another spawn as close as 20-30km. I bet there's a comprehensive list or three somewhere of which missions are "safe" in this respect, but I don't know where. Most (all?) Caldari L4 missions with Blood rats are safe anyway... Mad Hermit - Minding our own business since 2004.
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:56:00 - [70] Just kill everything, then there is nothing left to scram you, always worked fine for me.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.12 19:10:00 - [71] Originally by: Complacency's Bane Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Well explain to me how my hauler could leave from a belt, using one stab, being scrambled by three rats. ^^ Did two of them have a malfunction at the time? Its chance-based because PvE needs to be as riskless as possible. One succeeded, two failed. This sounds like a reasonable explanation to my experience. [ore mongers, recruiting]
Skooney Gallente Universal Agencies Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.12 19:23:00 - [72] Sounds like you just learned a lesson in EVE! Now you come on the forums and whine! Want some cheese? Alot of people have offered you good ideas, and explanations and you have done nothing but been negative. So ROFLMA! Better luck next time! The one thing I always dis-liked about missions/NPC Rats, is you know what damage they do, and how to tank it. It should be completely random! Universal Agencies www.rlelectric.ca/ua.htm
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 19:25:00 - [73] Edited by: Daravel on 12/10/2006 19:25:20 Originally by: Skooney Sounds like you just learned a lesson in EVE! Now you come on the forums and whine! Want some cheese? Alot of people have offered you good ideas, and explanations and you have done nothing but been negative. So ROFLMA! Better luck next time! The one thing I always dis-liked about missions/NPC Rats, is you know what damage they do, and how to tank it. It should be completely random! When have I been negative? I have thanked a few people for their suggestions, and have aknowledged many others... I haven't actually whined, more ranted. And not because I died. Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Dolly Parton	Posted - 2006.10.12 19:33:00 - [74] He who doesn't use www.eveinfo.com deserves to die over and over again on missions. I have a few mission running corp mates that ask me every mission. Can I do lvl 4 Angel Extravaganza in Amarr Apoc? hmm lets see here ... NO there is a reason why its one if not the best eve-help site out there
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 19:35:00 - [75] Originally by: Dolly Parton He who doesn't use www.eveinfo.com deserves to die over and over again on missions. I have a few mission running corp mates that ask me every mission. Can I do lvl 4 Angel Extravaganza in Amarr Apoc? hmm lets see here ... NO there is a reason why its one if not the best eve-help site out there So your telling me, the only way to succeed at EVE's high end missions is to use a player create website? Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Skooney Gallente Universal Agencies Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.10.12 19:39:00 - [76] Edited by: Skooney on 12/10/2006 19:40:33 "I haven't actually whined, more ranted. And not because I died." - Call it what ever you want. - You ranted because you did not know. So you want someone to blame. - You feel that the information should be in game and you should not have to research for yourslef. Even though people have spent countless hours putting together resources so your 5 minutes of effort, could save your ship. - Some of you feel that the UI is messed up, and that CCP has it wrong - Had you done some research you would have known that you can turn messages on and off. YES you need both or the other half would be "ranting" - You do not have all the skills to protect yourself. I love this to: "I didn't know I was scrambled until I tried to warp, and there was not a thing I could do about it. Theres 30 ships on the overview, how do I know which ship it was?" SAME THREAD "Ok, maybe I know that you can be scrambled, but my only defense is to use Stabs - and how many?" Nothing you can do or only use stabs? "NPC's scrambling is a stupid idea, as when there are that many of them, you can't tell who it is, and you cant kill them." - You can tell who it is, and you can ALWAYS kill them. Cheese? tbh - I do feel bad for you, it is your attitude that I do not like, and in turn prompted me to comment on this thread. "Take responsibility for YOUR actions, and no-action is still action!" I used to do missions, I have lost, 2 Brutix, 2 Dominix, 1 Megathron, and with saying that - ALWAYS be carefull after an update, as missions tend to change from time to time. Universal Agencies www.rlelectric.ca/ua.htm
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2006.10.12 20:36:00 - [77] Smartbomb is your friend. -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that beats player with big stick now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2006.10.12 20:55:00 - [78] Edited by: Druadan on 12/10/2006 20:56:21 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker the fault lies with the UI, when the spam is coming hot and heavy you dont even see the scramble message. imo we need a small window that works like the debuff window in fantasy MMOs except it shows what Ewar(scrams jams and webs) effects are on your ship, how many and by pointering the icon who/what is applying those effects. QFT, agreed, seconded, <insert every other statement of support you can think of>. This would be a brilliant idea. I'd like this before any of the Kali stuff, tbh... that can wait. [EDIT: Two years... why am I still an exclamation mark?] __________________________________________________ "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.12 21:38:00 - [79] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/10/2006 21:38:37 Originally by: Daravel Originally by: Dolly Parton He who doesn't use www.eveinfo.com deserves to die over and over again on missions. I have a few mission running corp mates that ask me every mission. Can I do lvl 4 Angel Extravaganza in Amarr Apoc? hmm lets see here ... NO there is a reason why its one if not the best eve-help site out there So your telling me, the only way to succeed at EVE's high end missions is to use a player create website? Of course. Just like it is with almost every game out there where neither manual nor ingame info tell the whole story. Be happy that it is for free and realtively accurate and not some stupid Prima Guide that costs 15 bucks and feeds you faulty info from the game in its alpha-stage... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.10.12 21:43:00 - [80] Originally by: Daravel Can't be bothered with drones... I know you've already accepted you may need this but just to make sure. I can't believe you even consider going against frigates in anything above a cruiser without medium drones. Tech 2 are a long way off but you definitely need some and don't forget to carry the correct damage type. 4 tech 1 mediums may not be able to take a 30k frigate so a webber maybe useful if you can fit it. --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Daravel Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.13 08:29:00 - [81] Edited by: Daravel on 13/10/2006 08:29:03 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/10/2006 21:38:37 Originally by: Daravel So your telling me, the only way to succeed at EVE's high end missions is to use a player create website? Of course. Just like it is with almost every game out there where neither manual nor ingame info tell the whole story. Be happy that it is for free and realtively accurate and not some stupid Prima Guide that costs 15 bucks and feeds you faulty info from the game in its alpha-stage... Your comment legitimises my whole thread. If CCP were to hold that stance, then I would know I was allowed to rant here. I accept that the best source of mission information is not the game/manual, which just makes the point. The game should allow you to find out all you need to now, to prevent losses (not saying they shouldn't happen - but you should always have the ability to NOT lose anything) Originally by: Orri Sarikusa Originally by: Daravel Can't be bothered with drones... I know you've already accepted you may need this but just to make sure. I can't believe you even consider going against frigates in anything above a cruiser without medium drones. Tech 2 are a long way off but you definitely need some and don't forget to carry the correct damage type. 4 tech 1 mediums may not be able to take a 30k frigate so a webber maybe useful if you can fit it. Ok I have to warp out on the odd occasion on this mission, and I did so on another - these are the 1.3mill reward, 1299 LP giving missions, which appear to me to be the top, level 3's. I can do pirate invasion without warpin out, just depends who I kill first. So, I don't see a major flaw in my setup. Instead of 300-500k in drones, those SP now sit in shields/missiles... Does it balance out? Who knows. But the setup works fine Can I Have Your Stuff? Originally by: Sakura Nihil Just wanted to make sure the guy didn't turn into floating goo due to our mistake
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2006.10.13 08:57:00 - [82] Originally by: Daravel Ferox 5 XR-3 2000 (??)Heavy assault launchers 1 MED Nos 1 tractor beam 2 large T2 shield extenders 3 passive resists (can't remember the types) 1 nanofiber 1 BCU 1 PDS 1 Shield flux coil Can't be bothered with drones... Because nobody else has commented on your setup - why on earth do you have a nosferatu fitted to your ship and no modules (except for the tractor beam) to use that capacitor you've just drained? And you do know that rats have unlimited capacitor with regard to firing their weapons? If you're fighting guristas, then you should be packing kinetic and thermal resists - one single ship setup will not get you through every mission. Are you fitting Heavy Launchers or Assault Launchers? You're not clear in your post. If you're fitting all heavies, then you will need something to take care of smaller ships, IE drones. If you're fitting some/all assault launchers, then you need something to give you a bit extra DPS - drones again, or change out that nosferatu for 250mm rail A single nanofibre will not help the ferox become more agile to any significant degree. I'd chuck it and fit a PDS/BCU instead. Passive tanking with a Shield Flux Coil is a very bad idea. A Shield Power Relay is a far better idea or even another PDS. You may want to consider the idea of having a secondary ship for looting rather than gimp your combat ship setup with a tractor beam. I find a Cormorant with an AB/MWD and 5 tractor beams does the job admirably (and the only real use I can find for a Cormorant).
Kinomoto Sakura Amarr Turanic Raiders	Posted - 2006.10.13 09:10:00 - [83] Originally by: Thommy Something like this should be added, interpretion on how the end result will be open for developers / graphic experts. Image: Jamming indicator That looks good ---------------- Game The World.

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