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Field Command Ships vs. Battleships

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Jasai Kameron The Palladium Union	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:52:00 - [1] I've never flown a command ship, but they look pretty impressive and seem very popular. How are the field command ships balanced in pvp against battleships? Are they designed to be stronger than battleships for general combat (due to their increased tanks) or are they supposed to be equal in their overall capabilities (balanced by the BS greater dps)? For example, if equally skilled pilots were fighting Nighthawk (with new rof bonus) vs raven, who would be the likely winner (assuming no EW)? Or Astarte vs Megathron (assuming both medium range)? Personally, I've never bothered training for battlecruisers, figuring that anything they can do in PVP, a BS can do better and so I might as well focus all my SP in them. But with the strength of command ships, I don't know whether I've made a mistake. So how useful do people find field command ships in PVP?
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:56:00 - [2] I don't know in general but i do know that CS usually have stronger tanks and I've ripped apart several BS in CS's, including a thron in my astarte 1v1
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:57:00 - [3] nighthawk vs raven = raven astarte vs mega = mega easy.. Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Waxau Liberty Rogues Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:59:00 - [4] Well with the current NH bonuses ive soloed only 1 raven. Granted it was poorly fitted though. With the upcoming changes however, i think it'll be a close tie between the two. Ive heard the astarte is just slightly undercut from the megathron, but id personally put dibs on the astarte. Seen those things in action, and they do well:P Sleipnir can tank like a *****, and with AC, they dish out alot of damage. And absolution : no clue rofl
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:05:00 - [5] Injected abso can outtank most battleships (except those "lets get max DPS" beasts) + deal pretty nice damage at the same time. Tho... you need to use dual reps + injector. Only problem is damage type: i couldnt break 2x LAR t2 + 3x EANM t2 tempest when using confla + t2 warriors :/ (dealt exactly 600dps)... guess that 25% more EM resists helped pest a lot.
Lakotnik	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:21:00 - [6] Well, size works better than tech lvl as long as both players know what to expect. Properly fitted BS kills a field command ship, while command ship works better against "lesser" ships. A command ship can have one hislot with a command module that further increases performance, so 2 command ships work great together and i think they kill 2 BSs. Not sure tho.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:29:00 - [7] Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 11:30:16 Like someone mentioned in a previous thread on the subject, on SISI BS > CS, but on TQ CS > BS nearly every single time, at least on 1-on-1 engagements (at least field commands + eos). Lets be quite honest, properly-fit, properly-flown ships are a minority when it comes to T1 ships on TQ... and there's a fair bit of that on T2 ships as well. Once the fight gets bigger, CSs cant rely on pure combat performance anymore, for the simple reason that field ships lack range and fleet ships lack damage. Thats when the "force multiplier" thing comes into play, and thats also when you get called primary and learn how little use a good tank is when that happends. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Hakera Anari Higard	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:29:00 - [8] cmd ships are weak in their capacitor, cant move like hacs do to avoid bs fire so only thing they can do is absorb. Doesnt make for a great bs killer solo anyways. Not saying its impossible ofc, just makes things harder when you have a less manoverable boat.
Mathias Orsen Gold-dust	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:02:00 - [9] Command ships are nothing but the rich man's Toy. Equally skilled, Damage between them varies... An Astarte can put out more damage than some non gank BS's with ease. On average though, the difference is not to much. As far as the tank....Command ship can't even compete, that's the fact. Most BS pilots use crappy tanks, often times for PG/cpu/damage mods... that is the reality. The command ships have better base resistance only. Back to astarte... 6 low slots, that is good for a command ship and can hold a very nice tank. However, an astarte actually needs one of those low slots for atleast one damage mod. Now you have 5 slots for tanking. If you run one medium repairer then you will repair less HP per second than the BS's large. Comparing multiple repairers means you need to compare it to multiple repairers on a BS too. In wich case the BS still repairs more. Back to it... after the repair goes onto both the astarte and the BS (lets use a megathron), The Astarte, with a damage mode, has 4 slots for resistance and/or plate. The mega has 6 slot. Those extra 2 slots are plenty to bring the mega up to the same resist as the astarte. What you have in the end is a Astarte vs Mega with the same resist. The Mega (using 5 heavy drones) will do more damage than the Astarte, Have twice the armor HP, twice the Capacitor, Better repair rate. As far as why the command ship is nothing more than a rich man's toy.... Put a corpum Medium repairer, 28% energized adaptives, 64% active hardeners on the Astarte and you have one nasty death dealer... Insane tank, pimp ship, mwd to move at over 1km per second... Very nice way to spend a billion isk. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:06:00 - [10] Command ships seem very vulnerable to heavy nos. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:09:00 - [11] i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage...
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Deathbarrage i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage... if you faction fit a megathron then it beats the faction fit astatre
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:17:00 - [13] Originally by: without Originally by: Deathbarrage i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage... if you faction fit a megathron then it beats the faction fit astatre well most of good mega pilots fits megas t2 and most of good CS pilots fit there babys faction .. join me be cool
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:19:00 - [14] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: without Originally by: Deathbarrage i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage... if you faction fit a megathron then it beats the faction fit astatre well most of good mega pilots fits megas t2 and most of good CS pilots fit there babys faction .. what a stupid argument LOOK AT ME, IF I FIT MY CS FACTION IT WILL POONZROORSZ YOUR ONNLY T2 FIT MEGA HAHAHHAhhahhahaaa compaire apples to apples
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:34:00 - [15] faction fitted raven >> many astartes Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:36:00 - [16] Command ships seems cool. That is until you come across your standard ECM NOS Domi and get wtfpwned in your 200M isk toy
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Mathias Orsen As far as why the command ship is nothing more than a rich man's toy.... Put a corpum Medium repairer, 28% energized adaptives, 64% active hardeners on the Astarte and you have one nasty death dealer... Insane tank, pimp ship, mwd to move at over 1km per second... Very nice way to spend a billion isk. Lol, faction fitting wont save your ass if you go against someone who knows your weak points, or get unlucky, most people dont bother with that crap. A T2 fit CS costs 1/2-2/3 of a T2-fit HAC - rich man's toy? Maybe youre forgetting all of the poeple who dont fly battleships because they dont like them? For us, CS are tech II BCs, not a "wannabe battleship", and thats exactly the way we use them - like tech II battlecruisers :) ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:55:00 - [18] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 14/10/2006 12:55:22 Originally by: without Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: without Originally by: Deathbarrage i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage... if you faction fit a megathron then it beats the faction fit astatre well most of good mega pilots fits megas t2 and most of good CS pilots fit there babys faction .. what a stupid argument LOOK AT ME, IF I FIT MY CS FACTION IT WILL POONZROORSZ YOUR ONNLY T2 FIT MEGA HAHAHHAhhahhahaaa compaire apples to apples how dare u talk to my that way boy! now say sory ! join me be cool
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.10.14 13:03:00 - [19] For straight no gang mod PvP, a BS is the better choice every time. Nothing smaller can simulatenously tank, damage and EW like a BS can. They're also fully insurable, making something probably exceeding a 5:1 BS:CS ratio for your ISK. But that's not what a CS is for. If you're not fitting at least one gang module you're wasting its potential. Of course there's an argument for flying a small, sexy and unusual ship in itself, but in terms of effectiveness there basically is no question.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:04:00 - [20] If you use a CS for anything else than Gang or Fleet Support, you are wasting it. Load the thing up with command mods to support you gang mates, thats its main role. BS > CS (90% of the time) 2 x BS vs 2 x CS Thats a better question. ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:15:00 - [21] I'm not sure you should be trying to compare Command ships vs Battleships one on one. A command ships has a nich, its extremely tough AND it can boost most areas of EVERY OTHER PERSON IN THE GANG by quite a bit if they have good skills. Command ships have a great tank so they can stick around to continue to use their warfare link modules, not to be an anti-battleship weapon.
Lord Boxxer	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:23:00 - [22] Don't forget CS's are more agile and with their medium guns can track cruisers and frigates much better. If you compare that to bs's, they useually have problems tracking cruisers and aren't nearly as fast and agile then CS's (MWD's are easier to fit/use on a CS for once). It's not just pure tanking/damage dealing you should look at, being agile and have higher tracking counts for a lot these days.
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Lord Boxxer Don't forget CS's are more agile and with their medium guns can track cruisers and frigates much better. If you compare that to bs's, they useually have problems tracking cruisers and aren't nearly as fast and agile then CS's (MWD's are easier to fit/use on a CS for once). It's not just pure tanking/damage dealing you should look at, being agile and have higher tracking counts for a lot these days. AC/pulse/blasters of the large size have no trouble hitting crusiers at > 10km, and sub 10km they web
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:33:00 - [24] From what I've seen, CSs are damn good and a steal compared to overpriced HACs. However I would be very careful around a BS fitted with heavy Nos, your resistance/repping bonuses don't apply to your cap.
Olixia Castitatis Gallente Svefn-G-Englar	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:56:00 - [25] The Slepnir is excellent. I got completely owned by one on the test server - my Domi vs a Slepnir. I think it managed to out DPS and outtank me. :S I only had t1 ogres at the time, though. ----------------------- <Sig goes here>
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Olixia Castitatis The Slepnir is excellent. I got completely owned by one on the test server - my Domi vs a Slepnir. I think it managed to out DPS and outtank me. :S I only had t1 ogres at the time, though. must of been faction fitted to the balls, or a domi would own it, even if it all does wrong you jam the mofo and warp
Waxau Liberty Rogues Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:04:00 - [27] ok - lets get this right please folks - Hes asking players who FLY BOTH battleship and commandship. Those who dont need not post a view as it just confuses things. Firstly, Many if not near everyone doesnt use gang modules on their field command ships. Theyre role is GANK and TANK. Theyre not there to command, and assist their gang. You might as well have a normal battlecruiser to do that. Secondly, Its the FLEET command ships which provide the gang support. They lack the damage of a field command, and gain a greater tank so they can live longer to offer that support and bonuses. Field command ships will often beat a battleship - The reason for this is it takes roughly 2 months for a new player to get into a BS. It takes a new player probably 5 months to get into a command ship. Combine this fact with that of t2 guns most likely will be used on a command ship, along with other t2 mods, and sometimes faction, and you have yourself a demon ship. A battleship wont often have that. Too often ive fought ravens and geddons with normal t1 mods on. Not even named. Vs a t2 fitted and faction fitted nighthawk, they dont stand a chance. However, a t2 fitted/faction fitted BS, and it indicates the pilot has skill. It'll mean a close fight vs the two. The battleship will have tank, and high damage, whilst the command ship will have a good tank, and good damage FOR ITS CLASS. The difference will be which is more specialised. A jack of all trades is a master of none. CS tend to be specialised in a certain role, compared to BS which can do anything from logistics, to gank/solo, to mining. I personally would say CS, but i often dont attempt to, as you cant tell what the other will be packing. Tends to ride on the age of the character imo
RogerWilco Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:52:00 - [28] The roles u assign to each ship when u engage in group or fleet fighting is the real advantage imo, ie target calling, u always call the bs first even though quite a few BS wont be as effective in close and med range fighting as a CS. Now alot of u prob say, "but we have seen the bare facts and figures"" this chart says otherwise" and so on, the CS always end up in the top of the killmail for a reason. So the argument about which of the two ships are best, really isnt as one sided as "the figures say s this and this""i got more dps and cap" - that said id fly my astarte over me mega anyday of the week..
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:04:00 - [29] On my old character I used to fly a Nighthawk (as a MOM. Mining Operations Manager). Against most regular Battleships you're so screwed if the character flying it is equally skilled. However outside fleet battles alot of battleship pilots arn't that skilled and you do reasonably well against HACs (since your sig radius isn't a disadvantage against medium missiles/turrets), so for an experienced pilots is an excellent ship for protecting convoys (it's pretty bad ass for breaking ganker camps as alot of them either run because they've never faced a CS before or they mistake you for a Ferox and get a whole lot more whoopass than they expected) and protecting mining operations (with the support of a couple of other ships). However I have a feeling that it might be a different scenario for someone using turrets, in a CS you often can't dictate the range without the help of tacklers.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:17:00 - [30] Edited by: LUKEC on 14/10/2006 17:18:52 Tbh, only cs i'd ever worry about are: sleipnir, new nighthawk, eos, maybe absolution. Rest are junk, astarte biggest joke of them (5-6 volleys of torpraven made dual rep astarte go pop, granted it was t2 only, but still... ). I want faction fitted astarte going vs t2 blasterthron + i nearly forgot, blastarte is piece of junk, like deimos. Sig is not eve related Eve related? Copyright of ISD?

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