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Jasai Kameron The Palladium Union	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:52:00 - [1] I've never flown a command ship, but they look pretty impressive and seem very popular. How are the field command ships balanced in pvp against battleships? Are they designed to be stronger than battleships for general combat (due to their increased tanks) or are they supposed to be equal in their overall capabilities (balanced by the BS greater dps)? For example, if equally skilled pilots were fighting Nighthawk (with new rof bonus) vs raven, who would be the likely winner (assuming no EW)? Or Astarte vs Megathron (assuming both medium range)? Personally, I've never bothered training for battlecruisers, figuring that anything they can do in PVP, a BS can do better and so I might as well focus all my SP in them. But with the strength of command ships, I don't know whether I've made a mistake. So how useful do people find field command ships in PVP?
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:56:00 - [2] I don't know in general but i do know that CS usually have stronger tanks and I've ripped apart several BS in CS's, including a thron in my astarte 1v1
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:57:00 - [3] nighthawk vs raven = raven astarte vs mega = mega easy.. Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Waxau Liberty Rogues Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.10.14 10:59:00 - [4] Well with the current NH bonuses ive soloed only 1 raven. Granted it was poorly fitted though. With the upcoming changes however, i think it'll be a close tie between the two. Ive heard the astarte is just slightly undercut from the megathron, but id personally put dibs on the astarte. Seen those things in action, and they do well:P Sleipnir can tank like a *****, and with AC, they dish out alot of damage. And absolution : no clue rofl
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:05:00 - [5] Injected abso can outtank most battleships (except those "lets get max DPS" beasts) + deal pretty nice damage at the same time. Tho... you need to use dual reps + injector. Only problem is damage type: i couldnt break 2x LAR t2 + 3x EANM t2 tempest when using confla + t2 warriors :/ (dealt exactly 600dps)... guess that 25% more EM resists helped pest a lot.
Lakotnik	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:21:00 - [6] Well, size works better than tech lvl as long as both players know what to expect. Properly fitted BS kills a field command ship, while command ship works better against "lesser" ships. A command ship can have one hislot with a command module that further increases performance, so 2 command ships work great together and i think they kill 2 BSs. Not sure tho.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:29:00 - [7] Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 11:30:16 Like someone mentioned in a previous thread on the subject, on SISI BS > CS, but on TQ CS > BS nearly every single time, at least on 1-on-1 engagements (at least field commands + eos). Lets be quite honest, properly-fit, properly-flown ships are a minority when it comes to T1 ships on TQ... and there's a fair bit of that on T2 ships as well. Once the fight gets bigger, CSs cant rely on pure combat performance anymore, for the simple reason that field ships lack range and fleet ships lack damage. Thats when the "force multiplier" thing comes into play, and thats also when you get called primary and learn how little use a good tank is when that happends. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Hakera Anari Higard	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:29:00 - [8] cmd ships are weak in their capacitor, cant move like hacs do to avoid bs fire so only thing they can do is absorb. Doesnt make for a great bs killer solo anyways. Not saying its impossible ofc, just makes things harder when you have a less manoverable boat.
Mathias Orsen Gold-dust	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:02:00 - [9] Command ships are nothing but the rich man's Toy. Equally skilled, Damage between them varies... An Astarte can put out more damage than some non gank BS's with ease. On average though, the difference is not to much. As far as the tank....Command ship can't even compete, that's the fact. Most BS pilots use crappy tanks, often times for PG/cpu/damage mods... that is the reality. The command ships have better base resistance only. Back to astarte... 6 low slots, that is good for a command ship and can hold a very nice tank. However, an astarte actually needs one of those low slots for atleast one damage mod. Now you have 5 slots for tanking. If you run one medium repairer then you will repair less HP per second than the BS's large. Comparing multiple repairers means you need to compare it to multiple repairers on a BS too. In wich case the BS still repairs more. Back to it... after the repair goes onto both the astarte and the BS (lets use a megathron), The Astarte, with a damage mode, has 4 slots for resistance and/or plate. The mega has 6 slot. Those extra 2 slots are plenty to bring the mega up to the same resist as the astarte. What you have in the end is a Astarte vs Mega with the same resist. The Mega (using 5 heavy drones) will do more damage than the Astarte, Have twice the armor HP, twice the Capacitor, Better repair rate. As far as why the command ship is nothing more than a rich man's toy.... Put a corpum Medium repairer, 28% energized adaptives, 64% active hardeners on the Astarte and you have one nasty death dealer... Insane tank, pimp ship, mwd to move at over 1km per second... Very nice way to spend a billion isk. -------------------------------------- ---"What's in your wallet?"--- "There are two kinds of respect, fear and admiration.... I'll take what I can get"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:06:00 - [10] Command ships seem very vulnerable to heavy nos. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:09:00 - [11] i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage...
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Deathbarrage i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage... if you faction fit a megathron then it beats the faction fit astatre
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:17:00 - [13] Originally by: without Originally by: Deathbarrage i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage... if you faction fit a megathron then it beats the faction fit astatre well most of good mega pilots fits megas t2 and most of good CS pilots fit there babys faction .. join me be cool
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:19:00 - [14] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: without Originally by: Deathbarrage i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage... if you faction fit a megathron then it beats the faction fit astatre well most of good mega pilots fits megas t2 and most of good CS pilots fit there babys faction .. what a stupid argument LOOK AT ME, IF I FIT MY CS FACTION IT WILL POONZROORSZ YOUR ONNLY T2 FIT MEGA HAHAHHAhhahhahaaa compaire apples to apples
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:34:00 - [15] faction fitted raven >> many astartes Originally by: Kusotarre I am awesome in fleets, everyone on teamspeak trembles in fear as my battlecry blasts through their headphones, heralding a new era of target-less randomosity.
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:36:00 - [16] Command ships seems cool. That is until you come across your standard ECM NOS Domi and get wtfpwned in your 200M isk toy
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Mathias Orsen As far as why the command ship is nothing more than a rich man's toy.... Put a corpum Medium repairer, 28% energized adaptives, 64% active hardeners on the Astarte and you have one nasty death dealer... Insane tank, pimp ship, mwd to move at over 1km per second... Very nice way to spend a billion isk. Lol, faction fitting wont save your ass if you go against someone who knows your weak points, or get unlucky, most people dont bother with that crap. A T2 fit CS costs 1/2-2/3 of a T2-fit HAC - rich man's toy? Maybe youre forgetting all of the poeple who dont fly battleships because they dont like them? For us, CS are tech II BCs, not a "wannabe battleship", and thats exactly the way we use them - like tech II battlecruisers :) ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Praxiteles Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:55:00 - [18] Edited by: wierchas noobhunter on 14/10/2006 12:55:22 Originally by: without Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: without Originally by: Deathbarrage i think if you faction fit an astarte it's equal or better then the megathron, 2x corpum rep = 2x LAR II, better resists, about equal damage... if you faction fit a megathron then it beats the faction fit astatre well most of good mega pilots fits megas t2 and most of good CS pilots fit there babys faction .. what a stupid argument LOOK AT ME, IF I FIT MY CS FACTION IT WILL POONZROORSZ YOUR ONNLY T2 FIT MEGA HAHAHHAhhahhahaaa compaire apples to apples how dare u talk to my that way boy! now say sory ! join me be cool
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.10.14 13:03:00 - [19] For straight no gang mod PvP, a BS is the better choice every time. Nothing smaller can simulatenously tank, damage and EW like a BS can. They're also fully insurable, making something probably exceeding a 5:1 BS:CS ratio for your ISK. But that's not what a CS is for. If you're not fitting at least one gang module you're wasting its potential. Of course there's an argument for flying a small, sexy and unusual ship in itself, but in terms of effectiveness there basically is no question.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:04:00 - [20] If you use a CS for anything else than Gang or Fleet Support, you are wasting it. Load the thing up with command mods to support you gang mates, thats its main role. BS > CS (90% of the time) 2 x BS vs 2 x CS Thats a better question. ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:15:00 - [21] I'm not sure you should be trying to compare Command ships vs Battleships one on one. A command ships has a nich, its extremely tough AND it can boost most areas of EVERY OTHER PERSON IN THE GANG by quite a bit if they have good skills. Command ships have a great tank so they can stick around to continue to use their warfare link modules, not to be an anti-battleship weapon.
Lord Boxxer	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:23:00 - [22] Don't forget CS's are more agile and with their medium guns can track cruisers and frigates much better. If you compare that to bs's, they useually have problems tracking cruisers and aren't nearly as fast and agile then CS's (MWD's are easier to fit/use on a CS for once). It's not just pure tanking/damage dealing you should look at, being agile and have higher tracking counts for a lot these days.
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Lord Boxxer Don't forget CS's are more agile and with their medium guns can track cruisers and frigates much better. If you compare that to bs's, they useually have problems tracking cruisers and aren't nearly as fast and agile then CS's (MWD's are easier to fit/use on a CS for once). It's not just pure tanking/damage dealing you should look at, being agile and have higher tracking counts for a lot these days. AC/pulse/blasters of the large size have no trouble hitting crusiers at > 10km, and sub 10km they web
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:33:00 - [24] From what I've seen, CSs are damn good and a steal compared to overpriced HACs. However I would be very careful around a BS fitted with heavy Nos, your resistance/repping bonuses don't apply to your cap.
Olixia Castitatis Gallente Svefn-G-Englar	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:56:00 - [25] The Slepnir is excellent. I got completely owned by one on the test server - my Domi vs a Slepnir. I think it managed to out DPS and outtank me. :S I only had t1 ogres at the time, though. ----------------------- <Sig goes here>
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 15:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Olixia Castitatis The Slepnir is excellent. I got completely owned by one on the test server - my Domi vs a Slepnir. I think it managed to out DPS and outtank me. :S I only had t1 ogres at the time, though. must of been faction fitted to the balls, or a domi would own it, even if it all does wrong you jam the mofo and warp
Waxau Liberty Rogues Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:04:00 - [27] ok - lets get this right please folks - Hes asking players who FLY BOTH battleship and commandship. Those who dont need not post a view as it just confuses things. Firstly, Many if not near everyone doesnt use gang modules on their field command ships. Theyre role is GANK and TANK. Theyre not there to command, and assist their gang. You might as well have a normal battlecruiser to do that. Secondly, Its the FLEET command ships which provide the gang support. They lack the damage of a field command, and gain a greater tank so they can live longer to offer that support and bonuses. Field command ships will often beat a battleship - The reason for this is it takes roughly 2 months for a new player to get into a BS. It takes a new player probably 5 months to get into a command ship. Combine this fact with that of t2 guns most likely will be used on a command ship, along with other t2 mods, and sometimes faction, and you have yourself a demon ship. A battleship wont often have that. Too often ive fought ravens and geddons with normal t1 mods on. Not even named. Vs a t2 fitted and faction fitted nighthawk, they dont stand a chance. However, a t2 fitted/faction fitted BS, and it indicates the pilot has skill. It'll mean a close fight vs the two. The battleship will have tank, and high damage, whilst the command ship will have a good tank, and good damage FOR ITS CLASS. The difference will be which is more specialised. A jack of all trades is a master of none. CS tend to be specialised in a certain role, compared to BS which can do anything from logistics, to gank/solo, to mining. I personally would say CS, but i often dont attempt to, as you cant tell what the other will be packing. Tends to ride on the age of the character imo
RogerWilco Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 16:52:00 - [28] The roles u assign to each ship when u engage in group or fleet fighting is the real advantage imo, ie target calling, u always call the bs first even though quite a few BS wont be as effective in close and med range fighting as a CS. Now alot of u prob say, "but we have seen the bare facts and figures"" this chart says otherwise" and so on, the CS always end up in the top of the killmail for a reason. So the argument about which of the two ships are best, really isnt as one sided as "the figures say s this and this""i got more dps and cap" - that said id fly my astarte over me mega anyday of the week..
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:04:00 - [29] On my old character I used to fly a Nighthawk (as a MOM. Mining Operations Manager). Against most regular Battleships you're so screwed if the character flying it is equally skilled. However outside fleet battles alot of battleship pilots arn't that skilled and you do reasonably well against HACs (since your sig radius isn't a disadvantage against medium missiles/turrets), so for an experienced pilots is an excellent ship for protecting convoys (it's pretty bad ass for breaking ganker camps as alot of them either run because they've never faced a CS before or they mistake you for a Ferox and get a whole lot more whoopass than they expected) and protecting mining operations (with the support of a couple of other ships). However I have a feeling that it might be a different scenario for someone using turrets, in a CS you often can't dictate the range without the help of tacklers.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:17:00 - [30] Edited by: LUKEC on 14/10/2006 17:18:52 Tbh, only cs i'd ever worry about are: sleipnir, new nighthawk, eos, maybe absolution. Rest are junk, astarte biggest joke of them (5-6 volleys of torpraven made dual rep astarte go pop, granted it was t2 only, but still... ). I want faction fitted astarte going vs t2 blasterthron + i nearly forgot, blastarte is piece of junk, like deimos. Sig is not eve related Eve related? Copyright of ISD?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:35:00 - [31] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/10/2006 17:35:37 A battleship with a few heavy nos or neutralizers and a command ship cant tank any longer... I think they are too vulnerable, at least for solo pvp. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:39:00 - [32] Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 17:39:35 Thats true for basically everything apart from another BS with nos or injectors tho. Med Electrochemical w. 800s wont cut the mustard, but we'll how the tide turns if/when nos/ew get nuuuuurfed... ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:42:00 - [33] Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 17:39:35 Thats true for basically everything apart from another BS with nos or injectors tho. Med Electrochemical w. 800s wont cut the mustard, but we'll how the tide turns if/when nos/ew get nuuuuurfed... Well considering astarte's sig, it won't change anything, really. 1 heavy neut = 1 very dead astarte. Sig is not eve related Eve related? Copyright of ISD?
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:44:00 - [34] why are galante hac/cs the ones with the biggest sigs? is it not normally minm < amarr < galante < caldari also the problem with CS [well not problem but what keeps them in line is that they dont have the HP of a bs if they had that, WTB CS bpos]
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:51:00 - [35] Dunno. Its certainly a little silly that the sig of the brutix hulls (300m) is a whole 20m smaller than that of a typhoon (320m), when a cyclone (240m) is less than twice the sig of a thorax (140m). Even if they're in the right order, the larger BC sigs are much too large. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.14 17:52:00 - [36] Originally by: without why are galante hac/cs the ones with the biggest sigs? Because they look like ***** extensions. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:04:00 - [37] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: without why are galante hac/cs the ones with the biggest sigs? Because they look like *** extensions. you got one weird looking *** if you think the astarte/eos/ishtar is what one looks like
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:07:00 - [38] Yeah, if yours looks like an ishtar, go see a doctor. Green aint a healthy colour, bud. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:08:00 - [39] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/10/2006 18:09:51 To be serious, I dont really know why the gallente ships have bigger sigs than caldari. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:11:00 - [40] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/10/2006 18:09:51 To be serious, I dont really know why the gallente ships have bigger sigs than caldari. i suggest increasing the caldari CS/HAC sigs then
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:13:00 - [41] Originally by: without Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/10/2006 18:09:51 To be serious, I dont really know why the gallente ships have bigger sigs than caldari. i suggest increasing the caldari CS/HAC sigs then Because I dont know the reason? Hehe... thats flattering in a way... :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:16:00 - [42] Originally by: without Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/10/2006 18:09:51 To be serious, I dont really know why the gallente ships have bigger sigs than caldari. i suggest increasing the caldari CS/HAC sigs then Our Crazy Mass is enough punishment! ------------------------------------- Proud member of G Guild!
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: without Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/10/2006 18:09:51 To be serious, I dont really know why the gallente ships have bigger sigs than caldari. i suggest increasing the caldari CS/HAC sigs then Because I dont know the reason? Hehe... thats flattering in a way... :) take every opertunity you can to nerf them missile spwing ugly bastages
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:25:00 - [44] Lets just decrease the larger BC/CS sigs instead, k? I mean, take a look at this, sigs of tier-3 cruiser and of BC for each race: CALD 135/285 - 111% increase AMAR 130/265 - 103% increase MINM 130/240 - 84% increase GALL 140/300 - 114 % increase Most of them are more than twice the size of the biggest cruiser - wouldnt you say its a bit overkill? ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:28:00 - [45] Originally by: keepiru Lets just decrease the larger BC/CS sigs instead, k? I mean, take a look at this, sigs of tier-3 cruiser and of BC for each race: CALD 135/285 - 111% increase AMAR 130/265 - 103% increase MINM 130/240 - 84% increase GALL 140/300 - 114 % increase Most of them are more than twice the size of the biggest cruiser - wouldnt you say its a bit overkill? no their sig is fine, how do you expect them to do the same or more than BS DPS and not have similar sig although id say the galante and caldari sigs should be reversed. also the astarte needs another low slot.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:31:00 - [46] Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 18:31:39 But BCs dont do BS-level DPS. Thats one of the major advatages of HACs - they have the sig a shipclass much smaller than what a ship with those capabilities usually have, and thats one of the extant problems of BC/CCs. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 18:50:00 - [47] Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 18:31:39 But BCs dont do BS-level DPS. Thats one of the major advatages of HACs - they have the sig a shipclass much smaller than what a ship with those capabilities usually have, and thats one of the extant problems of BC/CCs. if you give the CS 200-220 sig range they with the better agility it would be a majour boost they are fine as is imo, they can kill things lower than themselfs easy, and its a close math with BS
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:03:00 - [48] Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 19:03:21 Whoppy-doo, something that takes twice as long as a BS to train for and you can kill cruisers welll with it - thats as daft as keeping the NH as a frigate killer. I'm going to wait and see what the effect of Kali 1 is on them, but I am an unabashed BC/CS partisan ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
without	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:22:00 - [49] Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 19:03:21 Whoppy-doo, something that takes twice as long as a BS to train for and you can kill cruisers welll with it - thats as daft as keeping the NH as a frigate killer. I'm going to wait and see what the effect of Kali 1 is on them, but I am an unabashed BC/CS partisan i think you will find that a BS takes longer to train for than a command ship. large t2 guns vs medium t2 guns large t2 drones vs small t2 drones same cap/shields/armor/ecm/ect skills
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:43:00 - [50] Fly & Maxed ship bonus necessary skills: BS: 1x Rank 8 to 5, 1x Rank 5 to 4 (cruiser prereq) Command Ships 5: 1x Rank 6 to 5, 1x Rank 5 to 5 (cruiser 5 prereq), 1x Rank 1 to 5, 1x Rank 6 to 4, 1x Rank 8 to 5. Plus a rank 6 to 4 if you want to fly fleet ships on top. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Thayder	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:47:00 - [51] Edited by: Thayder on 14/10/2006 19:52:33 Edited by: Thayder on 14/10/2006 19:52:09 Edited by: Thayder on 14/10/2006 19:51:34 Originally by: without Originally by: keepiru Edited by: keepiru on 14/10/2006 19:03:21 Whoppy-doo, something that takes twice as long as a BS to train for and you can kill cruisers welll with it - thats as daft as keeping the NH as a frigate killer. I'm going to wait and see what the effect of Kali 1 is on them, but I am an unabashed BC/CS partisan i think you will find that a BS takes longer to train for than a command ship. large t2 guns vs medium t2 guns large t2 drones vs small t2 drones same cap/shields/armor/ecm/ect skills AHAHHHAHAHAHAHA! AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Squad Com V Seige War Spec V Science V Cybernetics V cruiser v bc V Com Ships IV Heavy missile spec V rapid launch V Electronics V afew drone and missile skills that seem to be overlooked often FIVE GOD DAMNED ENG SKILLS MAXED EVEN THOUGH THE EQUIVALENT ARMOR SKILLS ARE HALF THE RANK ...but I digress. maxing out a bs=6 months maxing out a command=13 months. getting in a bs and using proper mods=1-2 months getting in a com and using proper mods = 5 months im on month eight, i feel the burn. Edit Ya know what, theres no need for a **ing contest go download http://evemon.evercrest.com/ and find out for yourself. Oh and QuickFit too, seems that you dont have that either...
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.14 20:07:00 - [52] now now... talking about gang modules and bs are 2 different things. Anyway, gallente cs sucks. Sig is not eve related Eve related? Copyright of ISD?
Elliott Manchild omen.	Posted - 2006.10.15 03:07:00 - [53] Edited by: Elliott Manchild on 15/10/2006 03:07:34 Originally by: LUKEC now now... talking about gang modules and bs are 2 different things. Anyway, gallente cs sucks. Astarte makes me cry its to god damn big, i like my sleip so much more
LaCoHa Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.15 10:32:00 - [54] Originally by: Toaster Oven Command ships seems cool. That is until you come across your standard ECM NOS Domi and get wtfpwned in your 200M isk toy I can confirm this from experience.
LaCoHa Caldari Deep Space Navy Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2006.10.15 10:36:00 - [55] And as to the OP - I think the concensus is right, BS > CS one vs one. However, like most ships, they for sure have their strengths. CS + HAC (BS, CS) vs BS = dead BS. So just try to pick your targets. Oh yeah, and dont follow a brutix to a gate to gate gank it when a corp mate has written in corp chat "Dont Attack Brutix, his buddy in Domi is at gate in next system waiting for you to aggro!!!" oh well.. live and learn.
Nick Parker Caldari Rogue Elements	Posted - 2006.10.15 11:17:00 - [56] From my experience, it depends on the user completely, and the setup. If it wasn't for nos/neutralizers, a Command ship would make BS outside of fleets useless. With a Proper setup BS however, the fight is yours.
Twin blade	Posted - 2006.10.15 11:22:00 - [57] 1 Neut most of the time will kill a CS nothing worst than losing like half your cap and have the rest drained by Nos tank and gun's.
Masochist Shinra	Posted - 2006.10.15 11:38:00 - [58] Edited by: Masochist on 15/10/2006 11:38:50 As long as CCP ain't releasing Nos/drainers signature based. You"ll die a swift dead in your T2 BC. (next time I'll read other posts first)
starship enginer	Posted - 2006.10.15 11:43:00 - [59] Originally by: Masochist Edited by: Masochist on 15/10/2006 11:38:50 As long as CCP ain't releasing Nos/drainers signature based. You"ll die a swift dead in your T2 BC. (next time I'll read other posts first) a medium cap injecter with 800s adds 36.36 cap per second, that is more than 3 heavy nosf neutrilised for one mid slot. imo more than fair!! you dont like nosf. fit one medium cap injector with 800s
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.15 12:18:00 - [60] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/10/2006 12:21:36 Originally by: starship enginer Originally by: Masochist Edited by: Masochist on 15/10/2006 11:38:50 As long as CCP ain't releasing Nos/drainers signature based. You"ll die a swift dead in your T2 BC. (next time I'll read other posts first) a medium cap injecter with 800s adds 36.36 cap per second, that is more than 3 heavy nosf neutrilised for one mid slot. imo more than fair!! you dont like nosf. fit one medium cap injector with 800s Medium cap injectors only have room for one 800 charge, then you have to reload. The battleship has room for 4. I dont think you will win the cap race. :) Besides, heavy nos means the battleship can stay at 19km from you and just nos you to death even without his own cap injectors. You need him to be at 10-12 km for you to nos him. Command ships are generally abit faster than battleships though, so you might get in range after a while. But still, the amount you gain from your nos will be sucked right back by his heavy nos. Most battleship pvp setups have either nos or cap injectors. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
without	Posted - 2006.10.15 13:03:00 - [61] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 15/10/2006 12:21:36 Originally by: starship enginer Originally by: Masochist Edited by: Masochist on 15/10/2006 11:38:50 As long as CCP ain't releasing Nos/drainers signature based. You"ll die a swift dead in your T2 BC. (next time I'll read other posts first) a medium cap injecter with 800s adds 36.36 cap per second, that is more than 3 heavy nosf neutrilised for one mid slot. imo more than fair!! you dont like nosf. fit one medium cap injector with 800s Medium cap injectors only have room for one 800 charge, then you have to reload. The battleship has room for 4. I dont think you will win the cap race. :) Besides, heavy nos means the battleship can stay at 19km from you and just nos you to death even without his own cap injectors. You need him to be at 10-12 km for you to nos him. Command ships are generally abit faster than battleships though, so you might get in range after a while. But still, the amount you gain from your nos will be sucked right back by his heavy nos. Most battleship pvp setups have either nos or cap injectors. what the hell are you talking about, let me make this simple for you medium cap injector = 12sec ROF and then 10sec to reload = 22sec per 800 cap charge (800/22) = 36.36 cap per sec heavy nosf 1 = 100 cap per 12 sec = 8.33 cap per sec (36.36/8.33) = 4.365 Heavy nosf thus one medium cap injecter with 800s on a command ship [and they are dam easy to fit] will stop 4.365x t1 heavy nosf but CS pilots will still cry since they want a full i win button. one mid slot to counter 4 heavy nosf is way more than acceptable. if anything medium cap injectors should be limited to 200 charges and not more [atm its like fitting a 150mm rail with L ammo or at lest release 3.2k charges so BS can do the same
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.15 13:19:00 - [62] Originally by: without what the hell are you talking about, let me make this simple for you medium cap injector = 12sec ROF and then 10sec to reload = 22sec per 800 cap charge (800/22) = 36.36 cap per sec heavy nosf 1 = 100 cap per 12 sec = 8.33 cap per sec (36.36/8.33) = 4.365 Heavy nosf thus one medium cap injecter with 800s on a command ship [and they are dam easy to fit] will stop 4.365x t1 heavy nosf but CS pilots will still cry since they want a full i win button. one mid slot to counter 4 heavy nosf is way more than acceptable. if anything medium cap injectors should be limited to 200 charges and not more [atm its like fitting a 150mm rail with L ammo or at lest release 3.2k charges so BS can do the same But the battleship will do more damage to you, and you are giving away half the cap you gain from the booster to the battleship (if he has 2 heavy nos). Im not saying a commandship cant win vs a battleship, but my money is on the battleship. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Yaay Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.10.15 14:12:00 - [63] Originally by: MECTO nighthawk vs raven = raven astarte vs mega = mega easy.. Come fly with me sometime so I can prove you wrong. And fyi, I've virutaully solo'd a rattlesnake in an absolution. I think my help arrived when he hit armor.
without	Posted - 2006.10.15 14:18:00 - [64] Originally by: Yaay Originally by: MECTO nighthawk vs raven = raven astarte vs mega = mega easy.. Come fly with me sometime so I can prove you wrong. And fyi, I've virutaully solo'd a rattlesnake in an absolution. I think my help arrived when he hit armor. wow you killed one stupid guy, how about you and me go to iceland and demand ccp commison a medal for you!
Yaay Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.10.15 14:47:00 - [65] Originally by: without Originally by: Yaay Originally by: MECTO nighthawk vs raven = raven astarte vs mega = mega easy.. Come fly with me sometime so I can prove you wrong. And fyi, I've virutaully solo'd a rattlesnake in an absolution. I think my help arrived when he hit armor. wow you killed one stupid guy, how about you and me go to iceland and demand ccp commison a medal for you! And if you'd think before you'd speak, you'd realize that i was praising the ships, not myself.
Liza Stone Caldari Advanced War Technologies	Posted - 2006.10.15 14:51:00 - [66] Edited by: Liza Stone on 15/10/2006 14:51:54 I've flown the Nighthawk for half a year now, for both missions and PvP. And of course I have come across a lot of BS in my time. And they all share the same idea that they can down me However they are wrong, even with a heavy nos! I was being attacked by a pirate who thought he could down me in his Megathron, problem was he was doing 14 dmg per hit, and he was experienced. So he changed to NOS, which made effect due to my set-up. Then I hit my electronic warfare modules and blocked him repeatedly over and over, why using a medium NOS on him. In the end his tank gave up and he exploded into a trillion bits. Same for Ravens, even though not the best ships for PvP some people still use them much to my delight as they pop even faster! The domi is the only ship I personally fear, although I do win in the end they take a lot of time to bring down, but once its drones are all dead and its been blocked for ages it does fall. If you like PvP fly a Command ship! so many people lock and fight you simply because they think they are more powerful. Raven 0 Command Ship 6 Megathron 0 Command Ship 5 Domi 1 Command Ship 5 Apoc 0 Command Ship 2 (not many people use this ship) I hope that solves a few questions If you disagree and want to call me nasty names please feel free IÆve got used to it <Space for rent>
Jasai Kameron The Palladium Union	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:54:00 - [67] Thanks to everyone who replied. I appreciate it. Originally by: Liza Stone Edited by: Liza Stone on 15/10/2006 14:51:54 I've flown the Nighthawk for half a year now, for both missions and PvP. And of course I have come across a lot of BS in my time. And they all share the same idea that they can down me However they are wrong, even with a heavy nos! I was being attacked by a pirate who thought he could down me in his Megathron, problem was he was doing 14 dmg per hit, and he was experienced. So he changed to NOS, which made effect due to my set-up. Then I hit my electronic warfare modules and blocked him repeatedly over and over, why using a medium NOS on him. In the end his tank gave up and he exploded into a trillion bits. Same for Ravens, even though not the best ships for PvP some people still use them much to my delight as they pop even faster! The domi is the only ship I personally fear, although I do win in the end they take a lot of time to bring down, but once its drones are all dead and its been blocked for ages it does fall. If you like PvP fly a Command ship! so many people lock and fight you simply because they think they are more powerful. Raven 0 Command Ship 6 Megathron 0 Command Ship 5 Domi 1 Command Ship 5 Apoc 0 Command Ship 2 (not many people use this ship) I hope that solves a few questions If you disagree and want to call me nasty names please feel free IÆve got used to it Wow, Liza, that's pretty impressive. I don't suppose there's any chance you'd share your fitting? Or if not, how about answering in general terms? Did you fit a lot of faction stuff on? How many EW modules did you use? I assume you fitted a shield tank, too, so was it passive or active? Sorry for all the questions, but those results are pretty amazing, so I'm a bit curious.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.16 10:03:00 - [68] Originally by: Liza Stone If you disagree and want to call me nasty names please feel free IÆve got used to it No, but I will say that your win vs the megathron sounds more like it was because of ecm and not the ship itself. I dont really see how he could hit for 14 damage when you had both a tank and ecm in the med slots though... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

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