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Kithrus
Tzedakah Aegis Militia
338
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Posted - 2015.03.06 01:26:09 -
[1] - Quote
I gave a long thought about how I want to go about doing this, at first I was angry then I was baffled. I beg forgiveness of CCP but I think this is a discussion that needs to be had.
Three years ago I was in CVA with a friend of mine. He has Asbergers syndrome and has a habit of rubbing people the wrong way. I have my own mental deficiency which allowed me to understand this person as I too have issue socializing though not to the same degree.
Due to this CVA removed him and told him to go away and in order to enforce it they marked him red.
Now up to this point I understood. they just wanted him to go away. I understand though frowned in disapproval. At the end of the day this person has done nothing wrong to anyone in CVA to merit perma KoS status but apparently that's what happened.
Time wore on and I forgot though I wish I said something then. events transpired that gave me ownership of AM. This person called in a favor and I invited them into the alliance.
CVA swiftly respond by telling me to throw him out on his ear or be marked KoS.
Now for those of you who are snickering at this point the door is over there. Are they gone? Good I hate that guy.
I understand people don't always mesh, I understand they don't like him but he never did anything to them. No heist, no leaking intel just annoying them.
No one in this game should have the right to bully anyone for out of game reasons into not flying with anyone.
I could get it if you want to keep one powerful person from teaming up with another in some cool meta game but this is strickly personal.
Its Bulling and Harassment and it needs to stop.
Ultimately I don't care about being KoS to CVA, ultimately I know CCP can't do anything but I feel the player base should know this story and decide for themselves how they feel.
If nothing else lest the truth is known now.
fly safe. |
Valkin Mordirc
694
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Posted - 2015.03.06 01:45:26 -
[2] - Quote
Hm,
On this topic, I think CCP should tread lightly. EvE is a game about Villains. I've kicked people before just because I don't like them. Meshing poorly means poor teamwork, honesty.
DId Leadership talk to this guy? Was he warned? These are some key details being left out.
However there is a line, between Harassment and Bullying. And Harassment in EVE online. Can't really find a way to put it elegantly but there is.
Currently, I see nothing wrong with what happened here.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12003
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Posted - 2015.03.06 01:48:08 -
[3] - Quote
Much though I deride Provi, I have to agree with their stance on this one.
Getting rid of someone who has pissed off a bunch of your members is a normal, reasonable act. Enforcing it is a natural consequence of the responsibilities of leadership.
I fail to see the problem here, unless you think that his mental condition should give him a pass for his actions.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Kithrus
Tzedakah Aegis Militia
338
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Posted - 2015.03.06 01:49:48 -
[4] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Hm,
On this topic, I think CCP should tread lightly. EvE is a game about Villains. I've kicked people before just because I don't like them. Meshing poorly means poor teamwork, honesty.
DId Leadership talk to this guy? Was he warned? These are some key details being left out.
However there is a line, between Harassment and Bullying. And Harassment in EVE online. Can't really find a way to put it elegantly but there is.
Currently, I see nothing wrong with what happened here.
Again yes it was an issue with getting along fine. Following this guy around and trying to get everyone to spurn him?
step too far no? |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
438
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Posted - 2015.03.06 01:50:18 -
[5] - Quote
CVA are bullies. Now I've read it all.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Paranoid Loyd
4037
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Posted - 2015.03.06 01:55:05 -
[6] - Quote
I don't see anything in your story about you informing your alliance you wanted to let someone in that is Red before you invited them, with all the asshatery, misdirection and deception that goes on in this game, I too would think you were up to something and give you the same ultimatum.
Either way I don't see any bullying going on.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Valkin Mordirc
694
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Posted - 2015.03.06 01:56:29 -
[7] - Quote
Kithrus wrote:
Again yes it was an issue with getting along fine. Following this guy around and trying to get everyone to spurn him?
step too far no?
Did they actually hunt him down?
Quote: Due to this CVA removed him and told him to go away and in order to enforce it they marked him red.
You merely said he was Red and like all reds KoS?
#DeleteTheWeak
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12004
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Posted - 2015.03.06 02:00:31 -
[8] - Quote
Wait, here's a thought.
If you object to pointless, subjective rules that are enforceable only by shunning... why the actual hell are you in Provi?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
20220
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Posted - 2015.03.06 02:09:21 -
[9] - Quote
Surely, if this was a thing, everyone favorite internet space detective would have picked up on it, and the Ripardmobile would have been dispatched for torch and pitchfork distribution duty in preparation for the storming of Provi.
I guess I fail to see how this is bullying. Then again, the word is thrown around so much nowadays that I doubt anyone knows what bullying really is anymore.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Vote Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10!
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Kithrus
Tzedakah Aegis Militia
338
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Posted - 2015.03.06 02:10:09 -
[10] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:I don't see anything in your story about you informing your alliance you wanted to let someone in that has been marked KOS before you invited them, with all the asshatery, misdirection and deception that goes on in this game, I too would think you were up to something and give you the same ultimatum.
Either way I don't see any bullying going on.
1) my alliance 2) the person in question want to make it up CVA somehow they won't let him. They are afraid of appearing soft and they want him on his own. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23208
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Posted - 2015.03.06 02:28:20 -
[11] - Quote
It's not bullying, it's refusing to having anything to do with people that associate with people that you don't like.
How does your friend rub people up the wrong way?
Make inappropriate remarks? Fail to pull their weight? Generally act like a knob?
I've seen people get fired from their jobs for all of the above, getting fired from an internet spaceships organisation is chump change compared to that.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Elyham
The Eleventh Commandment Dystopia Alliance
32
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Posted - 2015.03.06 02:52:12 -
[12] - Quote
Being blue to CVA and provibloc myself I find this situation to be appaling and shocking. This must be looked into right away!
Of course I will be too busy mining in EY to devote any time to this matter but I am sure justice will be done for this poor fellow.
Elyham Director, Mining Buddy Program |
Kithrus
Tzedakah Aegis Militia
338
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 03:06:46 -
[13] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I've seen people get fired from their jobs for all of the above, getting fired from an internet spaceships organisation is chump change compared to that.
But most employers unless very vindictive don't go to your new boss and tell them they can't do business with them because they hired you. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23650
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Posted - 2015.03.06 03:16:45 -
[14] - Quote
CVA can do whatever intolerant thing they want (provided your story is true). However, by continuing to function in CVA you are giving tacit approval of how they operate. If you don't like it, let them know how you feel and then leave.
Life is too short, and EVE is a big game.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Paranoid Loyd
4039
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Posted - 2015.03.06 03:18:11 -
[15] - Quote
Kithrus wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:I don't see anything in your story about you informing your alliance you wanted to let someone in that has been marked KOS before you invited them, with all the asshatery, misdirection and deception that goes on in this game, I too would think you were up to something and give you the same ultimatum.
Either way I don't see any bullying going on. 1) my alliance 2) the person in question want to make it up CVA somehow they won't let him. They are afraid of appearing soft and they want him on his own. So you feel that them not wanting to give him a second chance is bullying?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Kithrus
Tzedakah Aegis Militia
338
|
Posted - 2015.03.06 03:27:58 -
[16] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Kithrus wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:I don't see anything in your story about you informing your alliance you wanted to let someone in that has been marked KOS before you invited them, with all the asshatery, misdirection and deception that goes on in this game, I too would think you were up to something and give you the same ultimatum.
Either way I don't see any bullying going on. 1) my alliance 2) the person in question want to make it up CVA somehow they won't let him. They are afraid of appearing soft and they want him on his own. So you feel that them not wanting to give him a second chance is bullying?
Sibyyl wrote: CVA can do whatever intolerant thing they want (provided your story is true). However, by continuing to function in CVA you are giving tacit approval of how they operate. If you don't like it, let them know how you feel and then leave.
Life is too short, and EVE is a big game.
I feel like everyone is missing a point here. We are not in CVA, in AM, my alliance AM which is a separate alliance told on no uncertain terms to ditch the guy they don't like or be made red and lose any benefit of providence should I chose to go there and be under fire if I encounter CVA and ally gangs.
This is about CVA trying to pressure me to cast my friend adrift cause they don't like him.
Not for in game reasons, not for tactical reasons...
Personal reasons. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
23650
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Posted - 2015.03.06 03:32:40 -
[17] - Quote
Exile for personal reasons does not constitute harassment or bullying.
Rush to danger, wind up nowhere
Sabriz for CSM go go go
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Paranoid Loyd
4039
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Posted - 2015.03.06 03:56:46 -
[18] - Quote
Forgive me for not acknowledging my mistake in saying "informing your alliance", I understood the situation after you pointed that out. But it doesn't change anything. It's their space, the reason is irrelevant.
Also as Sibs mentioned, rep has a lot to do with choices of who you allow in your space and this guy has obviously gone pretty far over the edge as to what is acceptable.
The fact that he has Aspergers doesn't really change anything. I have employed people in RL with the syndrome and they were still required to act acceptably and if they crossed the line they were dealt with the same way anyone else would have been dealt with, sure there was a bit more consideration in defining acceptable but there was still a line. Equal opportunity (which is pretty much what you are saying if they don't provide they are bullies) 1) works both ways & 2) is in no way required in Eve nor does it equate to bullying.
The fact that they told you to kick him or get kicked yourself is perfectly valid. You have chosen to associate with someone who has been marked red and as a result you should be marked red. Again, the reason is irrelevant.
Also, damn sibs, you have mastered that character creator. You are absolutely beautiful and that pose is both provocative and intimidating. 10/10
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
2144
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Posted - 2015.03.06 04:26:23 -
[19] - Quote
There is no bullying in a video game. At all. Ever.
If you feel threatened, upset, hostile, or bullied... simply logoff and dont play anymore. Boom. No more bullying.
Real bullying means being picked on at school, or other places where you cannot remove yourself from the equation. Its not even YOU that is the subject of said bullying, its an avatar. A fake name, for a make believe universe about stealing, fighting, trickery, scamming, etc.
What a goddamn joke.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
2144
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Posted - 2015.03.06 04:27:26 -
[20] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: Also, damn sibs, you have mastered that character creator. You are absolutely beautiful and that pose is both provocative and intimidating. 10/10
Ill second that.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
543
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Posted - 2015.03.06 04:34:16 -
[21] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:There is no bullying in a video game. At all. Ever.
If you feel threatened, upset, hostile, or bullied... simply logoff and dont play anymore. Boom. No more bullying.
Real bullying means being picked on at school, or other places where you cannot remove yourself from the equation. Its not even YOU that is the subject of said bullying, its an avatar. A fake name, for a make believe universe about stealing, fighting, trickery, scamming, etc.
What a goddamn joke.
Completely false by the way. You can get bullied at the gym, even though you don't have to go. You can get bullied in the park, even though you don't have to go. The fact that an adult can avoid all bullying by locking himself in his house all day does not mean that there is no such thing as bullying. That is just a delusional view of human interaction. And yes, there can absolutely be bullying in a computer game. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12015
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Posted - 2015.03.06 05:28:28 -
[22] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Completely false by the way. You can get bullied at the gym, even though you don't have to go. You can get bullied in the park, even though you don't have to go.
You can also get bullied at Wal Mart. One of my favorite pastimes is to sit on those benches they have near the entrances and laugh at fat people.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Orlacc
831
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Posted - 2015.03.06 05:44:39 -
[23] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Leto Thule wrote:There is no bullying in a video game. At all. Ever.
If you feel threatened, upset, hostile, or bullied... simply logoff and dont play anymore. Boom. No more bullying.
Real bullying means being picked on at school, or other places where you cannot remove yourself from the equation. Its not even YOU that is the subject of said bullying, its an avatar. A fake name, for a make believe universe about stealing, fighting, trickery, scamming, etc.
What a goddamn joke. Completely false by the way. You can get bullied at the gym, even though you don't have to go. You can get bullied in the park, even though you don't have to go. The fact that an adult can avoid all bullying by locking himself in his house all day does not mean that there is no such thing as bullying. That is just a delusional view of human interaction. And yes, there can absolutely be bullying in a computer game.
One can smell weakness through the ether. Like this guy^^
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
274
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Posted - 2015.03.06 06:58:21 -
[24] - Quote
The OP is definitely r/cringe material.
Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
691
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:09:42 -
[25] - Quote
Kithrus wrote: I understand people don't always mesh, I understand they don't like him but he never did anything to them. No heist, no leaking intel just annoying them.
No one in this game should have the right to bully anyone for out of game reasons into not flying with anyone.
I could get it if you want to keep one powerful person from teaming up with another in some cool meta game but this is strickly personal.
Its Bulling and Harassment and it needs to stop.
This is not pre-school. You are not forced to play with others that you don't get along with. It is not "harassment" to choose not to fleet/join a corp/talk to another player, nor is it "bullying" to tell another player they do not want to play with them if they are are associated with another player.
You cannot make people be "friends" and if you try to force people together who dislike each other, you are asking for a much worse situation. If it is just a misunderstanding then of course feel free to explain to everyone and try and sort it out, but if someone has decided they do not wish to interact with another, then you have to respect that decision.
Time to be an adult and make a choice. This is a game we all voluntarily play and can leave at anytime. Claiming that not wanting to play with another is "harassment" or "bullying" devalues these terms.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
2145
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Posted - 2015.03.06 07:16:35 -
[26] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Leto Thule wrote:There is no bullying in a video game. At all. Ever.
If you feel threatened, upset, hostile, or bullied... simply logoff and dont play anymore. Boom. No more bullying.
Real bullying means being picked on at school, or other places where you cannot remove yourself from the equation. Its not even YOU that is the subject of said bullying, its an avatar. A fake name, for a make believe universe about stealing, fighting, trickery, scamming, etc.
What a goddamn joke. Completely false by the way. You can get bullied at the gym, even though you don't have to go. You can get bullied in the park, even though you don't have to go. The fact that an adult can avoid all bullying by locking himself in his house all day does not mean that there is no such thing as bullying. That is just a delusional view of human interaction. And yes, there can absolutely be bullying in a computer game.
You are a morbidly deranged lunatic. Its a game. If it has bearings on how you live your real life, you need to stop playing.
Big Fat Forum Meanie and Thanatos Scammer
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
1352
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Posted - 2015.03.06 08:23:22 -
[27] - Quote
I can't take it anymore. There needs to be an EVE online forum parody of Futurama.... Veers Belvar as Captain Zap Brannigan. Leto Thule as Bender. ISDs Ezwal and Barstilode as the future police. Feyd as the news monster. Cannibal Kane as himself. I'll play Scruffy the janitor... open to ideas for the other roles :P
It is dark here. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
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Held der Finsternis
Honourable Space Men of Highsec
77
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Posted - 2015.03.06 09:54:42 -
[28] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:I can't take it anymore. There needs to be an EVE online forum parody of Futurama.... Veers Belvar as Captain Zap Brannigan. Leto Thule as Bender. ISDs Ezwal and Barstarlode as the future police. Feyd as the news monster. Cannibal Kane as himself. Unsuccessful At Everything as Zoidberg. I'll play Scruffy the janitor... open to ideas for the other roles :P
Does James 315 play the role as Zapp when he's a twenty-five star general later? I forget if that was before or after he had sex with Leela, which we still need someone to play.
Whichever character I play, I just want to pilot Old Bessie in the Battle for Earth Against the Scammers after Zapp fails.
Supreme Commander of Highsec
heroesofhighsec.com
save Highsec from James 315, the New Order, and CODE.
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Leiliana Atruin
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
21
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Posted - 2015.03.06 11:09:42 -
[29] - Quote
I happen to have a very good idea who you are talking about, I don't have a beef with the person personally.
However...
This person did more than just rub people the wrong way. He went out of his way to be offensive, and quite frankly, many people could rightfully accuse him of having been a bully in the past.
As a parent of a person with the same syndrome, I can tell you right now that him having that is no excuse for his behaviour. I am very involved with charities and organizations that deals with it, and in all but the worst cases (think rainman) there is very little anti-social actions.
Quite frankly, for the majority of people that acts the way he, it is more a matter of the person thinking he can do and say whatever he wants because 'aspergers'. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
23211
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Posted - 2015.03.06 11:46:55 -
[30] - Quote
Kithrus wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote: I've seen people get fired from their jobs for all of the above, getting fired from an internet spaceships organisation is chump change compared to that.
But most employers unless very vindictive don't go to your new boss and tell them they can't do business with them because they hired you. You'd be surprised, if you get fired from a particular kind of work for being an arse then apply for a job with a competitor or supplier/customer, then you can be fairly certain the new employer will contact the old one for a reference of some kind.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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