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How far would you go to protect your corp/alliance?

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evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.18 14:39:00 - [1] I have heard stories from people about the usally logoffski, lag jamming, node crashing tactics, but recently I have heard a darker side, those technically we are not allowed to do. TS/Vent SeverHacking Website Hacking/Attacks Denial of Serivce attacks Stealing of passwords to read other peoples mail, etc etc. I was wondering have you guys heard of such stories and how far have you guys taken your seucrity measures to defend yourself? ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 14:44:00 - [2] Well if you use spys to aquire TS/Vent passwords. IE placing a alt in a hostile corp and then them giving you the details to use, then I see no problem. The other things you mentioned never.
Sir JoJo Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 14:47:00 - [3] Edited by: Sir JoJo on 18/10/2006 14:47:18 spying and using the accses u get from ingame yes.. but all that hacking stuff forget it. its a game not cia its a disgrace for Minmatar
Matthew Munro Gallente Dragons Of Redemption Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.18 14:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Matthew Munro on 18/10/2006 14:54:49 Originally by: evistin TS/Vent SeverHacking Website Hacking/Attacks Denial of Serivce attacks Stealing of passwords to read other peoples mail, etc etc. All of these are illegal, if you were stupid enough to try any of these, you better know what you are doing else enjoy you time in jail. The legal system is quite harse on "hacking" yet doesn't care if CEO scam millions. Also unless you are very skilled, social engineering is so much easier, and fun
Lunas Feelgood Honey Bunnies	Posted - 2006.10.18 14:55:00 - [5] Edited by: Lunas Feelgood on 18/10/2006 14:55:09 Using alt as spyes in other corp/alliance is lame.. Also using spyes to access forums and TS is prop the most lamest you can do.. Having a spy on other alliance TS so you can hear exactly what FC are telling them is the most pathetic thing todo and is only done by others that are simply imcompetent in any ways of fleet battle.. TS spyes can completly **** up an alliance and is seriuosly destroying people gameplay.. Actually i dont even see the point of having a spy on another TS simply becuase it takes the fun out of pvp.. Whats the fun in pvp if you knwo what the other side gonna do?? However many people actually do that and im consider them cowards and incompetent..
Pepperami Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.10.18 14:57:00 - [6] I agree with Lunas. [EVE TASK BAR?]
Matthew Munro Gallente Dragons Of Redemption Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:00:00 - [7] Edited by: Matthew Munro on 18/10/2006 15:01:32 Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Actually i dont even see the point of having a spy on another TS simply becuase it takes the fun out of pvp.. Whats the fun in pvp if you knwo what the other side gonna do?? However many people actually do that and im consider them cowards and incompetent.. Spies are much more effective than just information, what about moral? When a alliance works out it has a actual spy then the paranoia sets in, comms have to be more restricted, poeples confidence is reduced. Why fight a enemy head on if you can destroy him from within first? It's a darker side to eve I've never dabbled in and I think exist more times than not in the minds of people
Lunas Feelgood Honey Bunnies	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Matthew Munro Edited by: Matthew Munro on 18/10/2006 15:01:32 Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Actually i dont even see the point of having a spy on another TS simply becuase it takes the fun out of pvp.. Whats the fun in pvp if you knwo what the other side gonna do?? However many people actually do that and im consider them cowards and incompetent.. Spies are much more effective than just information, what about moral? When a alliance works out it has a actual spy then the paranoia sets in, comms have to be more restricted, poeples confidence is reduced. Why fight a enemy head on if you can destroy him from within first? It's a darker side to eve I've never dabbled in and I think exist more times than not in the minds of people Yes you will destroy them from within its very easy however you not using game mechanics so basically you destroying something by going outside EVE and current game mechanics, again whats the fun in that?? If you wanna win at all cost go ahead however you only fooling youself becuase it has nothing todo with the game..
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Edited by: Lunas Feelgood on 18/10/2006 14:55:09 Using alt as spyes in other corp/alliance is lame.. Also using spyes to access forums and TS is prop the most lamest you can do.. Having a spy on other alliance TS so you can hear exactly what FC are telling them is the most pathetic thing todo and is only done by others that are simply imcompetent in any ways of fleet battle.. TS spyes can completly ** up an alliance and is seriuosly destroying people gameplay.. Actually i dont even see the point of having a spy on another TS simply becuase it takes the fun out of pvp.. Whats the fun in pvp if you knwo what the other side gonna do?? However many people actually do that and im consider them cowards and incompetent.. How about using an alt to post on the forums to flame a larger alliance? Is that cowardly, lame and incompetent? I think so As to the OP, I'll utilise any ingame information available including information from spies placed within other corps legitimately. No interest in OOG attacks. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto**
Lunas Feelgood Honey Bunnies	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:07:00 - [10] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Edited by: Lunas Feelgood on 18/10/2006 14:55:09 Using alt as spyes in other corp/alliance is lame.. Also using spyes to access forums and TS is prop the most lamest you can do.. Having a spy on other alliance TS so you can hear exactly what FC are telling them is the most pathetic thing todo and is only done by others that are simply imcompetent in any ways of fleet battle.. TS spyes can completly **** up an alliance and is seriuosly destroying people gameplay.. Actually i dont even see the point of having a spy on another TS simply becuase it takes the fun out of pvp.. Whats the fun in pvp if you knwo what the other side gonna do?? However many people actually do that and im consider them cowards and incompetent.. How about using an alt to post on the forums to flame a larger alliance? Is that cowardly, lame and incompetent? I think so As to the OP, I'll utilise any ingame information available including information from spies placed within other corps legitimately. No interest in OOG attacks. dbp yes DB i have used an alt to post on this forum and that is preatty lame ill be the first one to admit.. Btw DP did a touch a nerve??
Koronos Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:08:00 - [11] Edited by: Koronos on 18/10/2006 15:08:12 Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Edited by: Lunas Feelgood on 18/10/2006 14:55:09 Using alt as spyes in other corp/alliance is lame.. Also using spyes to access forums and TS is prop the most lamest you can do.. Having a spy on other alliance TS so you can hear exactly what FC are telling them is the most pathetic thing todo and is only done by others that are simply imcompetent in any ways of fleet battle.. TS spyes can completly **** up an alliance and is seriuosly destroying people gameplay.. Actually i dont even see the point of having a spy on another TS simply becuase it takes the fun out of pvp.. Whats the fun in pvp if you knwo what the other side gonna do?? However many people actually do that and im consider them cowards and incompetent.. Lunas, I personally agree with you, although tbh I think its tough to call BoB incompetent in any ways of fleet battle. ;) But I totally agree about the fun of battle. Worked against us in 9cg, was demoralizing and very very frustrating, so that crap works, but if you want to be the best pvpers and have the most fun doing it, that just kinda cuts the knees out of it. Koronos P.S. like yer new corp :)
Matthew Munro Gallente Dragons Of Redemption Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Yes you will destroy them from within its very easy however you not using game mechanics so basically you destroying something by going outside EVE and current game mechanics, again whats the fun in that?? If you wanna win at all cost go ahead however you only fooling youself becuase it has nothing todo with the game.. But if an alliance is using TS they are already using something that has nothing to do with the game. Ditto on the forums. At that stage I'm not sure you're really going outside the game. As for the fun, I don't see it personally but I'm sure some do. --------------------------------- Targeting: RA Safespots :twisted:
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:12:00 - [13] Edited by: DB Preacher on 18/10/2006 15:13:40 Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Btw DP did a touch a nerve?? Not in the slightest, that would only occur if I agreed in anyway with your assessment of the situation... which I don't. In the same way that I am sure you couldn't careless that I laughed at your lame, cowardly ways on the forums. P.S. Matthew gets it... the difference is the definition of what you see as OOG and IG. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Matthew Munro Edited by: Matthew Munro on 18/10/2006 14:54:49 Originally by: evistin TS/Vent SeverHacking Website Hacking/Attacks Denial of Serivce attacks Stealing of passwords to read other peoples mail, etc etc. All of these are illegal, if you were stupid enough to try any of these, you better know what you are doing else enjoy you time in jail. The legal system is quite harse on "hacking" yet doesn't care if CEO scam millions. Also unless you are very skilled, social engineering is so much easier, and fun You are making two points. If the 'hacker' in question has been given the TS/website/account/email password in question; then the corp doesn't have a leg to stand on. Espionage is a modern-day occurance, countries do it, corporations do it; why shouldn't it happen in Eve? I am sure it'd make a very nice Phd thesis. However, if the person brute-forces a password or whatver, then it is illegal. Certainly in the UK it would be covered under the Computer Misuse act. However there are very few legal cases where someone has hacked a TS/Vent/Game login to gain what is essentially virtual 'currency' (in one form or another) - how do you define virtual theft? Of course, the other old classic is social engineering. There's that survey where 8/10 people gave up their personal details for a free coffee+donut. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:20:00 - [15] In game? Whatever it takes. Out of game? Nothing. Simple as that.
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:21:00 - [16] EVE has changed and so has the people playing it, back in the old days, beta going into retail there was lots of political things going on including spies etc. It made the game fun and was one of the things which brought me here in the first place. Seems the EVE populas is going soft and forgot what this game is about. We win because we explore every option, we turn each opertunity we get, into a blow for the enemy. If its within the game rules then why shouldn't we take advantage of it. Anyhow this isn't a bob thread but this would apply to any group who uses all the tools he has avaliable to him, if you use them ofc your going to have a advantage. If you choose not to use them because of some silly morals you have in a online game then you will always be second best to those who use them.
Matthew Munro Gallente Dragons Of Redemption Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:23:00 - [17] Originally by: FireFoxx80 If the 'hacker' in question has been given the TS/website/account/email password in question; then the corp doesn't have a leg to stand on. Espionage is a modern-day occurance, countries do it, corporations do it; why shouldn't it happen in Eve? I am sure it'd make a very nice Phd thesis. Well he did say hacked, implied either a brute force or other form of system compromised beyond been given the password. Originally by: FireFoxx80 However, if the person brute-forces a password or whatver, then it is illegal. Certainly in the UK it would be covered under the Computer Misuse act. However there are very few legal cases where someone has hacked a TS/Vent/Game login to gain what is essentially virtual 'currency' (in one form or another) - how do you define virtual theft? You don't have to in australia afaik. The simple act of attemping to hack a server is a criminal offence. Originally by: FireFoxx80 Of course, the other old classic is social engineering. There's that survey where 8/10 people gave up their personal details for a free coffee+donut. Does not surprise me in the slightest, number of people at work when I say "you need to change your password" who then procede to tell me their current password and the one they want is staggering!
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:28:00 - [18] Personally, I think sitting on someone's TS and relaying real-time intel to your own commanders is pretty poor sportsmanship, after all, this is a game, and I don't see any fun in having the enemy fed to me on a platter. Spying is part of the game though, and gathering intel on fleet movements and operations has its place, I just think it has a limit before it starts to impact the gaming experience in a negative way, akin to using "wallhacks", where you know where the enemy is and what they are doing at all times. And before the forum squad jumps on me...I'm not calling anyone a cheater, but the end results of both techniques for gaining an advantage are quite similar. FREEE is Recruiting
Nymos Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:35:00 - [19] why does every thread in this forum turn into bob vs ascn? mods, make a seperate forum for propaganda and accusations please. --
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:35:00 - [20] But dont you think thats the point, there is no way to generaly win in eve, you win once the other team quits. And to make them quit you need to make them feel low, you need them to fight between each other, you need them to loose trust in the tools they use and the people who lead them. And if that means ruining there game experience until they move away from a said alliance/corp so be it. Once enough people have done that and the numbers are low the entity will die, thats when you have won.
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Nymos why does every thread in this forum turn into bob vs ascn? mods, make a seperate forum for propaganda and accusations please. hey I have tried to keep this as neutral as possible by not brining bob directly into it
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Dr Einkeisel But dont you think thats the point, there is no way to generaly win in eve, you win once the other team quits. And to make them quit you need to make them feel low, you need them to fight between each other, you need them to loose trust in the tools they use and the people who lead them. And if that means ruining there game experience until they move away from a said alliance/corp so be it. Once enough people have done that and the numbers are low the entity will die, thats when you have won. And all of those things can be done in-game using military and economic force. Just because it's difficult or it takes a long time, doesn't mean it can't be done. FREEE is Recruiting
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:45:00 - [23] Ok so you answered my statement. Those who dont use the tools avaliable to them will always come 2nd. And by the way, give me one example of a entity (a well known orginised one at that) who has died in the history of eve without there been spys etc involved. I doubt you will find one.
Velios M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:51:00 - [24] Baseball bat and a black ballaclava
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.18 16:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Dr Einkeisel Ok so you answered my statement. Those who dont use the tools avaliable to them will always come 2nd. And by the way, give me one example of a entity (a well known orginised one at that) who has died in the history of eve without there been spys etc involved. I doubt you will find one. I think the last generation of SA fell apart not due to spies? (can't count the 9CG spies, as its unknown in which alliance they were).. ------------------ yay, the Deimos has been saved!
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.10.18 16:18:00 - [26] Edited by: NATMav on 18/10/2006 16:18:48 Originally by: Dr Einkeisel Ok so you answered my statement. Those who dont use the tools avaliable to them will always come 2nd. And by the way, give me one example of a entity (a well known orginised one at that) who has died in the history of eve without there been spys etc involved. I doubt you will find one. Every alliance has spies. I don't argue that. I do argue that you have to ruin someone else's enjoyment of the game in order to win, which is what your statement describes. *typos FREEE is Recruiting
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 16:29:00 - [27] I guess it depends on what "win" means. If win means take space away from a territory claiming alliance and remove them from it. Then certainly the only way to do that is by busting their morale to the extent that they'd rather leave the region than be there. You can blow up as many ships as you like, but if they're still having "fun" being there, or think they have a chance of success, they won't go. that's why territorial alliances employ Ze BlobÖ against small roach-corps that sit in NPC stations / safe spots. The ONLY way to make them leave is to deny them what they came for. .... Real men use blasters
Ardpirate Phantom Squad iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.18 16:35:00 - [28] alt spies in alliances may be part of eve but its cheating in my eyes,can't remember ever cheating in a game i've played and if i did i think it would soon become boring.Eve is so good because of the challenge to overcome your enemies ,if u succeed in defeating them fairly im sure you would enjoy it more.
Fi T'Zeh Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 16:37:00 - [29] Cheating would be modifying the game client to gain an advantage that your opponent doesn't have access to. Everyone has the potential to introduce spies into their opponents organisation. .... Real men use blasters
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.18 16:43:00 - [30] do you have the orginal 2003 box ? If so I surgest you read the back of it.

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