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fuze
Gallente
Chosen Path
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.21 19:43:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Nira Li
If you are a football fan you should know that every team have their own spies that can get info on the other teams players and tactics etc.
Don't be silly. Eve isn't a multi-billion industry like football is.
Rod's comparison of poker comes a bit closer but only when it for fun and not large sums.
We all play Eve for fun, some might be more serious and really like to win but in the end you've just won some online computergame. With football and poker if you're good enough you can earn enough money for the rest of your life. So stakes are considerable higher. Just look at the italian scandal that went on. And do you think that Cally can retire in RL? I don't think so.
My oppinion would be that TS spying is a close call but you cannot give account details to others as well as using recordings. With ingame VOIP its impossible to share account details due to the EULA restricting it and recordings are directly related to the game. |
Nira Li
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: fuze
Originally by: Nira Li
If you are a football fan you should know that every team have their own spies that can get info on the other teams players and tactics etc.
Don't be silly. Eve isn't a multi-billion industry like football is.
Rod's comparison of poker comes a bit closer but only when it for fun and not large sums.
We all play Eve for fun, some might be more serious and really like to win but in the end you've just won some online computergame. With football and poker if you're good enough you can earn enough money for the rest of your life. So stakes are considerable higher. Just look at the italian scandal that went on. And do you think that Cally can retire in RL? I don't think so.
My oppinion would be that TS spying is a close call but you cannot give account details to others as well as using recordings. With ingame VOIP its impossible to share account details due to the EULA restricting it and recordings are directly related to the game.
True true, I just hade to prove his point wrong 
I personally have nothing against TS spying aslong as you don't hack the TS to get access. One thing that's buggering me though is why all of sudden ppl start disscusing TS/corp spying now, ppl been doing it since 2003 
You Will Cry My Name
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Leilani Solaris
Gallente
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.21 20:35:00 -
[63]
I lose ships fighting for the corp, does that count? 
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G Katah
Gallente
Red Eclipse Inc.
The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2006.10.22 10:09:00 -
[64]
To the OP: How much security? Apparently a lot.
Many seem to be getting mixed up between what is legal and what is right. But I will leave that aside.
BoB does seem to have gone from denying the use of TS spies, to justifying it. I do understand why they would wish to deny using TS spies in PvP.
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel
If using spies and TS recordings was the only thing that will win us the war we would have anhilated ASCN sicne day 1 , this aint solitare or anything simple as it , spying is just a minor part of the war , whats wining the war is the dedication of BOB pilots and leaders period.
(my emphasis)
That's really what it comes down to isn't it? How much is the skill and dedication of BoB pilots, and how much is TS spying? Having a spy on the enemies TS during fleet ops or in PvP is undeniably an enormous advantage.
I have no doubt that many of the most skilled PvPers in EvE may be found in BoB. I am sure they are ably led by capable leaders. They certainly boast many top-notch FCs.
But where are the years of dedication and practice? The years spent piling up skill points in carefully selected training. The hard work building up the resources for the finest ships and equipment. The many many hours spent flying in gangs and fleets honing skills.
It is a shame really that any victories achieved by these many skilled and experienced players will be cheapened by this TS spying. I thought all BoB wanted was good fights? The hard-fought kind that one can take pride in win or lose. The kind you win with better pilots, outstanding scouting, tight discipline, and superior tactics. The victories that are all the sweeter for how hard they were to achieve. I know I treasure most the achievments I had to struggle the hardest complete.
I think it is a shame really for the vast majority of the BoB pilots. You will be short-changed on any victories you achieve.
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Eiro
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Posted - 2006.10.22 18:23:00 -
[65]
Spying would be ok if it weren't for the ubiquity of alts that can simply be tossed away and recycled. If spying (and getting caught doing it) actually had a lasting impact on someone's reputation in the game, it would certainly provide a counterbalance to the amount of intel you could get from it. But (like scamming) if you can just delete the character afterwards and there's no evidence to trace it to another character or the real player, no way to hold the player accountable for their actions, then the whole concept of "trust" in EVE is completely fubar.
Also, to the BoB guy who said the way to win is to get other players to quit playing... wow. Just... wow.  
Eiro
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Nira Li
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.22 18:32:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Eiro
Also, to the BoB guy who said the way to win is to get other players to quit playing... wow. Just... wow.
Well tbh that's how you win the game and will probably not happen anyway
To win a war you just have to slaughter your enemy till they get bored 
You Will Cry My Name
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Buxaroo
Black Dwarf
Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2006.10.22 19:56:00 -
[67]
The VOIP thing might just put a big damper on the spying crap. I can't wait to see how it works and secure it is. I worry about all the *****ers trying to get into the VOIP server and trying to figure out ways to listen in on gang's voice channels without showing up. I really hope the security aspect of the VOIP is taken seriously.
I suspect there will be someone who will try to hack/***** the VOIP server company and steal the code to see if they can work out a way to listen in. Look at what happened to Half Life 2. It was leaked WAY before the game was finished. It just goes to show how far people will go to hack a game or gain an advantage over someone.
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evistin
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.23 05:29:00 -
[68]
Half-Life 2 was a hacker who wanted to prove how much value was lying about a production ready code. But yes it does prove the lenghts people go to prove it.
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Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide |
Scan 7
Detroit School of Engineering
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Posted - 2006.10.23 15:47:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lunas Feelgood
Edited by: Lunas Feelgood on 18/10/2006 14:55:09
Using alt as spyes in other corp/alliance is lame..
Also using spyes to access forums and TS is prop the most lamest you can do..
Having a spy on other alliance TS so you can hear exactly what FC are telling them is the most pathetic thing todo and is only done by others that are simply imcompetent in any ways of fleet battle..
TS spyes can completly **** up an alliance and is seriuosly destroying people gameplay..
Actually i dont even see the point of having a spy on another TS simply becuase it takes the fun out of pvp.. Whats the fun in pvp if you knwo what the other side gonna do??
However many people actually do that and im consider them cowards and incompetent..
I think you need to get your head out of those fairy white clouds, eve is based on a real world model, every goverment uses spies i dont see why alliances should be different, tho granted its far to easy to do in eve unlike real life but to me it adds an extra fun dimension to the game
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Dr Einkeisel
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.23 16:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Buxaroo
The VOIP thing might just put a big damper on the spying crap. I can't wait to see how it works and secure it is. I worry about all the *****ers trying to get into the VOIP server and trying to figure out ways to listen in on gang's voice channels without showing up. I really hope the security aspect of the VOIP is taken seriously.
I suspect there will be someone who will try to hack/***** the VOIP server company and steal the code to see if they can work out a way to listen in. Look at what happened to Half Life 2. It was leaked WAY before the game was finished. It just goes to show how far people will go to hack a game or gain an advantage over someone.
What I meant about the VOIP system was, it will make it easier for people to spy. All you need to do is put a person in the said corp ( like we have lots in ASCN ) and you can be on VOIP. It also protects the spy as I assume you wont be able to see there IP like you could on TS.
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Ridley Tree
Crimson Knights Trade Federation
Thundering Mantis
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Posted - 2006.10.23 17:19:00 -
[71]
Spying on, listening in on the communications and using that information to determine your own movements and actions is as vital a part of warfare as the construction of your ships and the firing of your guns. To say that you should not be allowed to spy on your opponentÆs team-speak is to say you should not be allowed to shoot your opponent.
That aside, there is a reason why the military codes of conduct require someone to be wearing a uniform in order to receive fair treatment/be eligible under the Geneva Convention. Spies are basically the scum of warfare. No one likes them, but theyÆre a vital and important tool.
This discussion boils down to whether or not you accept spies as a legitimate tool of warfare. And the answer to that is that your opponent does. And if he does, you should consider it a legitimate tool as well.
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Zedic
Amarr
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.23 18:35:00 -
[72]
Quote:
If you guys really hate BOB for their spies, go read the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu. Now come back and tell me you don't intend to use them yourselves now.
Better yet, go ready "Sun Tzu was a Sissy: Conquer Your Enemies, Promote Your Friends, and Wage the Real Art of War" by Stanley Bing. Absolutely the funniest thing I've read in a long time.
*this message has not be approved or condoned by f0rum watchers, hang wringers or my Corp / Alliance. Z0mgz I posted anywai!
Teh Zed
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.10.23 19:17:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dr Einkeisel
What I meant about the VOIP system was, it will make it easier for people to spy. All you need to do is put a person in the said corp ( like we have lots in ASCN ) and you can be on VOIP. It also protects the spy as I assume you wont be able to see there IP like you could on TS.
Yes, but at the same time they will have to have that account logged on in-game in order to be in the channel. That makes it at least a bit more difficult as they will have to run two accounts to be able to listen in & fight on the "other side" at the same time.
Also, from what I have seen so far, it appears that it will be integrated with gangs, so it will be fairly easy to see who is in the gang but not in space with you.
FREEE is Recruiting |
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