Okay, you got me there, I should have said null ores. Regardless, CCP wants null to have less excess, and that means that high sec won't see as much Mega/Zyd imported or low end minerals exported. That is a double whammy... Make that a triple whammy, since they are drastically increasing Mega/Zyd requirements in almost all BPOs.

The only safe bet is to expect manufactured items with little to no Mega/Zyd to come down in price?

[quote=Fzhal]

Good poast - http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?10878-Isk-is-not-enough-why-nullsec-is-unplayable-for-single-account-players

How will it become dirt cheap without people having mined it in the first place?

Good luck exporting Mega/Zyd to Hisec that is needed for your own production.



And this is exactly what is going to happen.

Hisec had it, and still does, for too good for far too long. For the vast majority, life in Null, compared to Hisec, is bordering on inhumane levels in most aspects of the gameplay.

This is a game, you know.

Good poast - http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?10878-Isk-is-not-enough-why-nullsec-is-unplayable-for-single-account-players

We will create our own truly Sovereign Empires and Freeports.

Indeed. My gut tells me that CCP will try to recreate the mining hay-day from way back, where Null mining was worth 70 up to a hundred-something ISK/hour. The difference now is that alliance manufacturing infrastructure has matured. So instead of bringing it all back to sell in Empire (hay-day), they'll have the capacity to use most of it. As such, I expect for the majority of high-sec's Mega/Zyd will probably come from renter space, and the rest to be filled by Low-sec corps (large enough to have a buffer zone) in addition to freelancers ninja mining in Low and W-space IF... CCP can find the sweet spot where the price is high enough for the risk.

The problem I'm having is how to capitalize. I didn't have a stash of Mega/Zyd. :( Is there somewhere to get data on what and how much Low/Null gets from High and how much is produced there? Those with a good understanding of alliance logistics are the people who stand to capitalize the most on the market's reactions.

I thought about investing in POSs, but the huge unknowns for the upcoming Structure and Sov changes put too many unknowns into the equation.

BPOs will probably be more heavily traded and moved to null.

Other than that, is there a spreadsheet somewhere that lists mineral ingredients by BPO? The only safe bet is to expect manufactured items with little to no Mega/Zyd to come down in price?

I wouldn't invest in POS BPOs atm as it isn't yet clear as to what CCP will do with the new structures. They could do straight swap-overs for the new tech or they could just do some kind of ISK or materials type reimbursement which may fall well short of the actual, or market, ISK value.

Fozzie also specifically mentioned the price crash of Megacyte and Zydrine. I can't quote exactly but it was in the same time frame as the proper quote above. Within a few minutes either way. His tone was that the low prices were a problem.

It may just have been Fozzie giving two examples of an overall nullsec minerals crash, it was an almost off the cuff comment.
It may also have been Fozzie just having some fun, drop the name of two minerals accidentally on purpose and watch the effect for poops and giggles.
Anyway that comment and those two minerals got picked up on fast. Within minutes the price on Jita was on it's way up, and shortly later the other hubs joined in.

It may be all null sec minerals will be buffed by CCP in terms of their prices going up, in which case other minerals will also go up. Or it may be Megacyte and Zydrine specifically.

CCP could do a few things.

The new structures could be skewed towards null sec minerals for construction to increase demand for them.

If CCP makes null sec more mining self sufficient, then that reduces the incentive to ship null sec minerals to high sec.
e.g. if freighters don't need to visit high sec to buy high sec minerals then they won't be bringing out null sec minerals to make the trip even more profitable. They will only bring out null sec minerals when the market makes the trip worthwhile.

Lots of people choose to run multiple accounts to make their mining easier. Lots of other people choose to go into the ore/mining market and then sell their goods for low prices. People either don't know better, or are resistant to raising their prices, because they want high liquidity for their goods and cant "afford" to wait for market prices to get better. They want that ISK now to do something with it.

Won't this lead to a lot of future posts, "Why are ____ selling for so much less than I can build them?"

Supply and demand drives markets whether its speculators in the middle or just producer and consumer. So the lower prices either means people have less demand, or there's too much supply. Lots of people choose to run multiple accounts to make their mining easier. Lots of other people choose to go into the ore/mining market and then sell their goods for low prices. People either don't know better, or are resistant to raising their prices, because they want high liquidity for their goods and cant "afford" to wait for market prices to get better. They want that ISK now to do something with it. The problem is similar to the problem of energy or water conservation; if you believe everyone else is wasting, you won't bother trying to conserve because you're just a drop in the ocean.

This oversupply had started with the introduction of broken ore anomalies in null.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1205/Bloodtear_Industy_Index_Report_v3.pdf

Educate oneself.

Cherry-picking and farming ABCs is a path of least resistance. Would you run Level 3 missions, if you had the equipment, the standing and the access to Level 4s? Does said mission running require one to stop this activity completely in order to retain optimum profit levels? What's more, you not only get passive LP accumulation which can be cashed out at a later date, you also get paid bounties, rewards and other miscellanea.

Or take manufacturing for an example: You can diversify out of a crowded trade into the thousands of commodities that are in the game; not an option for null mining to either 1) poke Empire ores; 2) Stockpile ABCs that you mine without selling them, netting you a grand total of 0 income.

https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/ - Arkonor ISK per volume used to be on par with Scordite last year.

Full circle.

This old church building for sale in Cheshire, England, has relatively low liquidity. It could be sold in a matter of days at a low price, but it could take several years to find a buyer who is willing to pay a reasonable price.

de-beers makes money keeping diamonds out of circulation.

This old church building for sale in Cheshire, England, has relatively low liquidity. It could be sold in a matter of days at a low price, but it could take several years to find a buyer who is willing to pay a reasonable price.

Like I said, people sell their ores cheap because they want the isk now. If everyone held onto their ores like in Fzhal's example

you'd see sharp increases in prices across the board.

Like I said, people sell their ores cheap because they want the isk now. If everyone held onto their ores like in Fzhal's example, you'd see sharp increases in prices across the board.

The problem comes back to people choosing to go into a job market that has poor payout because everyone else wants to be paid shittily too.

Khorvek, your argument seems to be the equivalent of one of the American Republican party's main assertions about poor people, "If the poor don't want to stay poor, then they should just work harder (or smarter)." (Then insert a line saying they should just do one simple thing.) As it turns out though, working harder does very little (except lose fingers more quickly) and becoming educated to a point where you understand how to best make use of the (job or trading) market's intricacies is costly and unguided so that your goal (understanding how to maximize ISK/hour) may not match up to the educational path you follow to look for answers. Sitting from where you are, with all your experience, the solutions seem obvious and simple. Your line of reasoning essentially stops at "If they want to stop being poor, then they should just stop doing things in a way that keep them poor." While that is true at a high level, it is also so terribly wrong when you look at the details.

If everything we know about human psychology, sociology, and free markets says that the components of your equation won't happen, we have no reason to take you seriously.

So the problem of poor wages is an endlessly abundant supply of poorly educated people?

This thread has turned to Nytol.

Arkonor:
Tritanium: 22000
Mexallon: 2500
Megacyte: 320

Bistot:
Pyerite: 12000
Zydrine: 450
Megacyte: 100

Crokite:
Tritanium: 21000
Nocxium: 760
Zydrine: 135

Lowsec ores are getting a 87-166% Zydrine content increase. Interesting.

Not many mined low sec when the prices were at peak. Many of the best out of the way systems are stop overs for caps now too, which was not the case way back. I doubt we'll see a huge increase in low sec mining. Certainly not enough to cover an almost 100% increase in build requirements.

Oh man... so much for that Mega/Zyd speculation... glad I saw the devblog quick and was able to dump to sells.

I'm not so sure. There are several lowsec systems/pockets surrounded by highsec and don't forget all the godforsaken lowsec systems at the end of world in Genesis, Khanid, Kador, Kor-Arzor, Molden Heath, Derelik etc. more or less all lowsec without FW. There are systems with less than 25jumps per day.

The risks in that systems aren't higher than being ganked in highsec. Question will be how much more profit you can get and of course finding some miners with courage ;)


As example look at the Genesis map:
3x lowsec systems surrounded by highsec: Beke, Vecamia, Ahbazon
2x lowsec pockets surrounded by highsec: Mih and Ashela constellation